Question for women. Is co dependence true love or the opposite?

January 19, 2016

I have found most men are clueless about women, and myself included.

As an example I have a successful male friend and I asked him why he is single. He owns a business, a few homes, is tall, decent looking. Etc. his reply was "most girls wouldn't want to live in my house. It is only 3 bedrooms"

So he has the mindset he needs to be really wealthy just to get a gf.

Other guys think of game, working out, impressing, gifts, being funny , tough etc

I think we all can agree the above can get you a gf or marriage , and is easier the more successful you are. But so many times that ends in divorce. And the woman was like "I never really loved him"

However , the only time I really hear women mentioning "love" is 99 percent of the time when they are in a horrible, dysfunctional relationship. With a bad man. Abuse, drugs, won't work, fighting, yelling, etc.

Recently I ended with a girl who was still in love with her druggie ex. She told me she would die for him, but I was the best guy she ever dated. Lol. I asked another friend of mine about her ex. She spent 15 years "in love" with a abusive druggie. She has a new bf, but still professes "love" for her ex. These women will go to the ends of the earth for those men.

So how does a guy find that?

Some questions.

A. If the above guys miraculously turned their lives around, does the woman still love him? Or was it all a sort of "fix him " game?

B. Are the above women mentally ill?

C. Why don't women ever talk about how much they love their "good" mate, or husband? Usually I hear constant nitpicking "my lazy husband doesn't help clean enough" while the girl with the druggie is like "great day!! My bf said he might want to quit heroine and might get a job!"

D. Or is "co dependence" what we grew up thinking true love is? And there really is no healthy "true love?"

January 19, 2016

Is it the company you keep? All my friends always talk about how amazing their husbands are, sure they may complain once in a while but majority is counting their blessings.

January 19, 2016

Is it the company you keep? All my friends always talk about how amazing their husbands are, sure they may complain once in a while but majority is counting their blessings.

Hmmm. Well most marriages end in divorce, and 70 percent of the time it is the woman initiating. I Know plenty of married people, and really never hear the woman going on about how she loves her husband.

January 19, 2016

1. We must travel in different circles. Most of my friends who are in relationships are in relationships with decent guys. No loser ex whom they are hung up over.

2. Even getting past this, FWIW there are single women out there--nice, level-headed, ect, maybe (or maybe not) just a bit socially awkward, who find themselves "buddy-zoned" due to lack of attraction and watch the guys who turned them down go for Hot Messes. I mean google "Men go for biatches" and see how many hits you come up with.

3. I get there are e.g., threads on this forum that seem to reinforce what you are saying OP. If there is anything I've learned about dating and relationships though, it is this one phenomenon: People go for those who let them be whom they see themselves to be. There are women who go for a loser and stick by them because these women see themselves as deep and strong who don't run when the going gets tough. It's an unhealthy dynamic, and getting back to 1. and 2., I think as many men go for the hot messes for a similar reason.

Edited January 19, 2016 by Imajerk17

January 19, 2016

Also asking what really gets to a woman's heart. Not necessarily just being bf and gf or even marrying. What is that extreme devotion some women have towards dysfunctional abusive men?

January 19, 2016

"Love is total commitment to the wellbeing of a person."

Some people think they love someone, when they don't.

It's important to know the difference between love and the various kinds of dysfunctional attachment.

January 19, 2016

"Love is total commitment to the wellbeing of a person."

Some people think they love someone, when they don't.

It's important to know the difference between love and the various kinds of dysfunctional attachment.

Well I also look at the actions.

Many people are bf and gf, and often times one of them "trades up".

In the cases I am speaking of, any guy would be a trade up". But these women do not. Is that love? Dysfunction? The thread beneath this one is an example of what I am saying.

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/general/general-relationship-discussion/566327-not-sure-if-my-husband-one

Edited January 19, 2016 by oregon0011

January 19, 2016

Dysfuntion is what is normal to them, from childhood. I have a friend who only seems to love guys who refuse to be considerate. Because her dad abandoned her. So she's used to being the one to try.

January 19, 2016

I've definitely seen this before.

Oregon, my theory is a significant number of women fall in love with any type of guy, but get really hooked on the worst ones because they crave drama and action.

When things are going well, they get bored and move on.

It's the nature of many women.

January 19, 2016

I've definitely seen this before.

Oregon, my theory is a significant number of women fall in love with any type of guy, but get really hooked on the worst ones because they crave drama and action.

When things are going well, they get bored and move on.

It's the nature of many women.

Yes. I asked the girl I was seeing about her ex, as he was living in his car (that she bought) before being sent to jail. And I said "what is his plan?" And it was like her face lit up"oh he just lives day to day". I guess that is sort of exciting for some people?

In regards to me she said "life with you would be so wonderful and easy. But my ex is homeless so I can't abandon him". In other words, she seemed to tell me it would be kind of boring I think.

January 19, 2016

A phsycologist once told me that it's a mystery why women are attracted to abusive men. She said they'll keep 'em in shelters, counsel them, help them, even find some jobs only to look around one day and they're gone. They go back to the abusive hubby or BF. No one seems to know why.

Also, I have a friend in law enforcement. he says they'll go to domestic complaints and find the man has abused & beaten the woman etc... they'll arrest him only to find the woman trying to bail him out as soon as possible. many times the cycle repeats itself. Interesting stuff.... but kinda sad as well.

January 19, 2016

People who want to be in dysfunctional relationships have problems themselves, that they need to work on, themselves. It's not because they are a woman or a man.

I know you are not going to like this ... :( I'm sorry ... but I have to say it. You are attracted to women like this because of you. Something you need to work on within yourself. If you won't and keep on putting it out there on "the women" you aren't going to move on from it.

January 19, 2016

A phsycologist once told me that it's a mystery why women are attracted to abusive men. She said they'll keep 'em in shelters, counsel them, help them, even find some jobs only to look around one day and they're gone. They go back to the abusive hubby or BF. No one seems to know why.
Also, I have a friend in law enforcement. he says they'll go to domestic complaints and find the man has abused & beaten the woman etc... they'll arrest him only to find the woman trying to bail him out as soon as possible. many times the cycle repeats itself. Interesting stuff.... but kinda sad as well.

Is it possible for a guy with his stuff together to have that level of extreme devotion? That's what I wonder

I mean in my examples the girls were highly educated and had feminist views. Yet they would be beat, verbally abused, money stolen, things destroyed, and would never even speak poorly of their men.

After the one girl I knew was beat she told me she would not eat while her boyfriend was in jail because he might not be eating.

January 19, 2016

Many women who had chaotic childhoods or felt as if they had to "earn" the love of a parent, will repeat these same patterns as adults.

For example, an addict or abusive parent will often be very inconsistent with their love. They may hug & praise their kid one day when they're high & happy, and ignore or yell at them the next day when they're out of drugs. This sets up a dynamic where the child is always seeking love & approval from their self absorbed parent, and when they do get the attention, it feels all the more special & rewarding because it's so inconsistent & unreliable.

A child in this kind of household will be told by her parent "I love you", while she is simultaneously neglected, yelled at, ignored or abused. The child is not emotionally mature enough to realize how messed up her parent is, so her mind "normalizes" it, to make it easier to cope. This is why she associates unstable relationships with love.

It's much easier for a kid to conclude "My Dad loves me even though he yells & hits me" rather than "My Dad is a selfish addict who loves drugs more than me". Our childhood minds often twist & turn reality because it helps us to cope with truths we can't handle yet.

If these issues are unresolved, then the pattern will continue into adulthood & affect her romantic relationships. Love that is freely given or easily attained isn't valued as much as inconsistent, dramatic love. They have an unhealthy association in their minds- love isn't dependable & consistent- it's dramatic, selfish & unstable (and someone can behave in unloving ways and still love them). They don't even consciously realize it, and often just feel that consistent & stable love is boring, while crazy, dramatic love is "chemistry"- because it's familiar & comfortable (in a messed up way).

It's sad, but makes a lot of sense when you really think about it.

January 19, 2016

Many women who had chaotic childhoods or felt as if they had to "earn" the love of a parent, will repeat these same patterns as adults.

For example, an addict or abusive parent will often be very inconsistent with their love. They may hug & praise their kid one day when they're high & happy, and ignore or yell at them the next day when they're out of drugs. This sets up a dynamic where the child is always seeking love & approval from their self absorbed parent, and when they do get the attention, it feels all the more special & rewarding because it's so inconsistent & unreliable.

A child in this kind of household will be told by her parent "I love you", while she is simultaneously neglected, yelled at, ignored or abused. The child is not emotionally mature enough to realize how messed up her parent is, so her mind "normalizes" it, to make it easier to cope. This is why she associates unstable relationships with love.

It's much easier for a kid to conclude "My Dad loves me even though he yells & hits me" rather than "My Dad is a selfish addict who loves drugs more than me". Our childhood minds often twist & turn reality because it helps us to cope with truths we can't handle yet.

If these issues are unresolved, then the pattern will continue into adulthood & affect her romantic relationships. Love that is freely given or easily attained isn't valued as much as inconsistent, dramatic love. They have an unhealthy association in their minds- love isn't dependable & consistent- it's dramatic, selfish & unstable (and someone can behave in unloving ways and still love them). They don't even consciously realize it, and often just feel that consistent & stable love is boring, while crazy, dramatic love is "chemistry"- because it's familiar & comfortable (in a messed up way).

It's sad, but makes a lot of sense when you really think about it.

This does make sense. The girl I was seeing told me "the relationship with my ex was hell, but the good times were so so good"

So basically we choose people based on our treatment in childhood, if issues go unresolved.

January 19, 2016

The women you speak of love broken people because they themselves are broken. Self esteem issues, substance abuse, bad childhoods - it's so very sad. My daughter wants a career helping these women, but I can't help but think it would be a very exhausting job with few rewards.

Thankfully very few of my friends are in dysfunctional relationships - most love how peaceful and supportive their husbands are. Either that or they've left the dysfunction and are now single. I only know of one who's in a dysfunctional relationship and she's a bit broken herself.

January 20, 2016

I don't see this as a gender issue. I see both genders attracted to 'hot mess' types. Others won't go near that with a 10 foot pole. I do believe that like attracts like so if you are seeing women who can't give you an emotional attachment you probably have some issues with it yourself. Even if you think you want it, there are many people who self sabotage by asking for commitment is people who are unable to give it.

I used to attract guys into drama and didn't understand why. I realized it was due to emotional unavailability and self-esteem so I made choices to change these things and make better choices. The quality of my relationships and the guys I attracted jumped up a lot. And if a guy wasn't up to my standards it was much easier to move on and find someone else.

January 21, 2016

I don't know, I have to ask you why you liked and wanted to be with a woman who was in love with someone else? I'd consider that the same thing that you are accusing women of, and I find it utterly perplexing when men do this. I find that both men and women are drawn to stupid people and fall into stupid relationships. We are all alike and it's a mystery to me as to why both genders do this.

January 21, 2016

I don't know, I have to ask you why you liked and wanted to be with a woman who was in love with someone else? I'd consider that the same thing that you are accusing women of, and I find it utterly perplexing when men do this. I find that both men and women are drawn to stupid people and fall into stupid relationships. We are all alike and it's a mystery to me as to why both genders do this.

Well it was hidden for a while and it was her telling me she is falling for me. Sex was great and then I ended things. I'm not devoting years of my life to her lol.

But men and women are quite different actually. I don't see good men with careers in love with crack smoking girls unless of course they do drugs too. They aren't spending decades trying to "fix" a girl like that.

Anyway, I do hear men say they love girls who are good. I do not hear women speaking of love unless it is some dysfunctional relationship. I do not see women willing to die for their bf, unless of course it is with a guy who treats them like garbage

January 21, 2016

Well it was hidden for a while and it was her telling me she is falling for me. Sex was great and then I ended things. I'm not devoting years of my life to her lol.

But men and women are quite different actually. I don't see good men with careers in love with crack smoking girls unless of course they do drugs too. They aren't spending decades trying to "fix" a girl like that.

Anyway, I do hear men say they love girls who are good. I do not hear women speaking of love unless it is some dysfunctional relationship. I do not see women willing to die for their bf, unless of course it is with a guy who treats them like garbage

I've seen some of the opposite of what you describe here, along with what you describe. I've seen all types of people in love. That is my experience.

January 21, 2016

C. Why don't women ever talk about how much they love their "good" mate, or husband?

Most people don't want to hear that day in and day out. It's called gloating.

Nevertheless, I gloat

January 21, 2016

I've seen some of the opposite of what you describe here, along with what you describe. I've seen all types of people in love. That is my experience.

Actually most men wish they could have a hot little virgin. Or close to it. Guys aren't obsessed with "bad girls". Girls in Prison do not have male fan clubs. Find a good looking guy who kills women and he will get thousands of letters of groupie fan mail yearly.

January 21, 2016

Actually most men wish they could have a hot little virgin. Or close to it. Guys aren't obsessed with "bad girls". Girls in Prison do not have male fan clubs. Find a good looking guy who kills women and he will get thousands of letters of groupie fan mail yearly.

Are you suggesting that hot bad girls don't have hoards of guys waiting in line?

January 21, 2016

Are you suggesting that hot bad girls don't have hoards of guys waiting in line?

What is a hot bad girl? I am talking about males who are physically and verbally abusive while being a drug addict. No I don't think men would be in line for that type of woman. Anyway the guys I am talking about are not hot either lol. It's like they are trying to fix these losers or

Mother them

Edited January 21, 2016 by oregon0011

January 21, 2016

What is a hot bad girl? I am talking about males who are physically and verbally abusive while being a drug addict. No I don't think men would be in line for that type of woman.

I've known plenty who are in line for them. One explained his perspective this way: Crazy in the head = crazy in bed.

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Question for women. Is co dependence true love or the opposite?

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