Wife wants to baptise our baby...I don't.

[burnt]

First of all,

got to say I chuckled (in a good way) reading that you posted this in both a religious and non-religious forum.

I like the way you think!

 

Agnostic myself here. My parents were pretty liberal, but I was sent to the MOST orthodox muslim school and I believed myself to be a faithful muslim for years.

 

BUT...

when I got a bit older, and the doubts started to enter in to the mind, faith escaped out of the soul.

 

In retrospect I think my 'faith' got broken because my parents' faith wasn't too strong either.

 

I now don't regret that my parents MADE me go to a religious school, maybe because they wanted me to have the faith they couldn't but wanted to. Choice was MINE to give up on religion. The thing is I acknowledge it as my own decision. In fact I see it as a truer form of 'choice' since I was forced to follow the religion and 'chose' go my own way. Whereas, if my parents had raised me as agnostic to begin with, then that by default would have meant they chose a reglion for me, hence I wouldn't 'choose' to be agnostic.

 

Whether your son gets baptised or not, when he gets older seeing that his father is not a believer and mother is kinda liberal, he will choose--which is what you want ultimately--for him to choose when he is old enough to reason himself.

 

I would say, go with it. I think it would be far better when your son gets older and looking back he sees that his father didn't FORCE his idealogy, but ALLOWED a reglious ritual despite being an aetheist.

 

Sorry I'm being so verbose.

My main point is, from a philosophical and logical perspective:

 

If you truly believe in your son making his own CHOICE, then you mustn't FORCE your particular faith (aethesm) to refrain him from getting baptised. If you keep him away from religious influence, that itself is influencing his faith in non-faith.

 

What I'm TRYING (!!) to say is that

a true believer in 'go your own way' does not force someone to 'go your own way', and thereby preventing him from 'go his own way'--it's a logically contradicting statement.

 

Am I making any sense?

[central]

I am an atheist, but if I married a Christian woman and we had children, I wouldn't object if she wanted them baptized. The child has no idea what's going on at that age, and what really matters is teaching them to think for themselves as they get older. They will make their own choices, eventually. I would even go along with exposing them to my spouse's religious traditions, but would counter them with my own philosophy. I would draw the line at constant indoctrination, though, or any attempts to dismiss or circumvent my teaching of my own views.

 

 

Forcing her views or your views on a child is simply wrong. Teaching the child to form their own views even if contrary to your own is the ethical path, IMO.

[preraph]

Your wife shouldn't still be taking orders from her family, and I would do everything to encourage her to be an adult and make her own decisions and not let them tell her what to do.

[Mrin]

I guess the only thing more that I'll add is to echo the sentiments of others. You had agreed to this. You can't go back on your word. Staying true to your word - staying in integrity - is a massive thing for most women in relationships. To go back now would be to yank the figurative emotional carpet out from under her and make her distrust or rethink everything else you've said. In the end, it just isn't worth the impact.

 

Best of luck OP!

[TaraMaiden2]

My wife has been to church twice in the 6 years I have known her, and one of those times was our wedding. As stated, my wife has developed reservations about the catholic church and has said she is thinking about converting to the church of England.

 

I was brought up immersed in a RC environment. As stated, I'm half-Italian, but I also was baptised in a RC church, attended a convent for my education, married my H in a nuptial mass, baptised both my daughters and sent them to RC Schools. I admit, their education was exemplary...

 

I was also a Parent Governor at their Primary school, fully involved in the day-to-day connection with the parish....

 

My eldest daughter held off from her Confirmation for a year, because she wanted to think about what she was committing to. In any case, she now is atheist but very humane and a lovely being. (By that, I mean arguably a better 'Christian' than some Christians.... )

My youngest never went through with a Confirmation.

 

Of all the people to steer me onto Buddhism (because in spite of my 'dedicated' attitude to the church in my duties as a parent and Parent Governor - I still had an awful lot of turmoil, indecision and unanswered questions) my mother gave me a book on Buddhism.

Within 5 pages, I knew, for sure, for sure, which way I was headed.

 

If however, your wife is considering converting to a Protestant faith, it may well be politic (if you'll pardon the phrase) to think carefully about your child's christening. If she feels strongly enough to consider switching churches, it's also worth considering the commitment she is putting upon prospective God-Parents, and their opinions, if she DOES implement changes.

Some religious bodies and representatives can be a bit...."twitchy"...like that....

 

Just a thought.

As always, up to you guys.....

[JustBoston]

Or - just talk to him, encourage him to explore, and guide him to follow his own path, whatever that may be. Indoctrination is indoctrination, whether it is religion, or anti-religion.

 

Don't mean to go offtopic, but let's not confuse education with indoctrination.

 

1. To say that religion is indoctrinated, and anti-religion is indoctrinated, it's the same as to say that no playing basketball is a sport.

 

2. There is a clear, well-defined line between considering the possibility of an intelligent alien entity placing primigenial life forms in the earth, and the religious idea of god, any god, from any religion, that can only go along Batman or Dark Vader. The no existence of the religious God who makes Adam out of clay, or whatever other childish story, is a proven fact ever since Darwin, and I do not consider indoctrination to teach children the religious God is as real as Mickey Mouse: Fun to watch in movies, have a book with some good life lessons, but no angels nor virgins are waiting for you when you die.

 

An flat earth was a "possibility" until it was found that the earth is actually round, and the genius who did it died at the hand of religious figures.

[Radu]

Thanks for your patronising post. At 36 I am not exactly young and I certainly wouldn't class myself as 'hipsterish'.

 

No 'event' or baptism has been arranged and nothing at this stage could be considered a great or bad 'start' to the marriage as we have been married for 5 years.

 

I respect your view that my child should be baptised but I think you make a lot of assumptions about my wife and her family.

 

I did not want to come off as patronising, maybe i should have rewritten it.

I do still stand by the fact that you sound somewhat hipsterish.

Anyway ... if you don't baptise your child in SA with her family you will affect the relationship with them.

 

Even if your wife is ok with this, you should go through with this.

 

PS: I'm 33, younger than you.

Edited January 7, 2016 by Radu

[BettyDraper]

Do you think people shouldn't marry across religions? We both love each other and respect each other's views.

 

Also, I would call myself an 'adamant atheist', just an atheist. Is a catholic who goes to church weekly an adamant catholic?

 

Nothing wrong with marrying across religions, but couples with different religious views need to respect each other's religious traditions.

 

You married into a Catholic family which means that you should have known that baptism and other sacraments would be expected.

[turnera]

Thanks for your replies everyone. I put this question in a catholicism forum and an atheist forum also - have a broad range of opinions.

 

I am not sure that I was clear in my original message - when I said my wife is nominally a catholic I meant she is by birth and by culture. She does not consider herself to be a catholic anymore but her belief in god is still strong. She does not feel it is at all important for our son to be baptised and would be happy for him to do it when older should he want to. It is her family who think it is necessary.

Never underestimate the need for a woman to have her family rally around her when she has a baby. And to have them admire her and her choices as a mother. I'm an agnostic and I was baptized when I was about 12; makes no difference to me now that I was. My DD25 was baptized as a baby and confirmed in junior high as a Lutheran. But now she's agnostic (and no, I never ever told her I was one; we took her to church all her life) and she just sees the baptism and confirmation as part of her history - has no effect on her or her beliefs. If anything, I'd say she welcomes it, because it gives her an added layer of 'security' - in terms of dealing with rabid Christians or in terms of the outside chance there really is a heaven. She's practical that way.

 

So bottomline, let your wife do what she needs so that having this baby is a GOOD thing for her, not a source of stress.

[ChickiePops]

If it doesn't mean anything to you then it's just water on your kids head. Chill.

 

 

- a completely non-religious person

[amaysngrace]

"Only the good die young"- Billy Joel

[whichwayisup]

Hello all,

 

I am an atheist, always have been. My wife is (nominally) a catholic and is from South America where Catholicism is more common and part of the culture. We have a 4 month old son. Everything is fantastic.

 

Before we had a child my wife mentioned about baptising him/her when they came along. This is more for her parents and grandparents benefit. At the time I said that yes, of course if it is important to her family, our child can be baptised.

 

Now that the time has come and we actually have a baby I feel uneasy about it. My wife is going to her country for 2 weeks without me (I will join her later) and the plan was to get our son baptised then.

 

Now I feel like our son can be baptised when he is old enough to make the decision. I dont like the idea of the church getting their hands on my son and feeling like he is officially one of them.

 

As I said, when he is older he can be baptised if he would like and I would attend and be very proud, but right now I'm not happy.

 

Am I being unfair?

 

Thanks

 

T

 

You knew going in what religion your wife was and I assume baptism must have come up in conversation.

 

It's what comes afterwards. Does she want the child to attend church weekly? To be involved and live a religious lifestyle? I say be tolerant and just know once your kid is old enough he/she can decide for him/herself if church is important or not.

[dreamingoftigers]

Do you think people shouldn't marry across religions? We both love each other and respect each other's views.

 

Also, I would call myself an 'adamant atheist', just an atheist. Is a catholic who goes to church weekly an adamant catholic?

 

My father is the Catholic and my Mother is the athiest.

 

I was baptized in infancy.

 

How much did that affect me?

 

Zero. Zip. Zilch.

 

Well.......in my jurisdiction I could not have attended Catholic High School, which I did.

 

Guess what I learned there? That I wasn't going to be a Catholic and didn't believe in it one whit.

 

I became an athiest like my mother until at 19 I had a very spiritual experience that set me off on a path of exploration.

 

I ended up becoming a Mormon (okay, maybe that's scary to you). But I married an Athiest who was raised as a Jehovah's Witness.

 

I've been on too many sides of the dice and to judge anyone for their religious or spiritual choices. Also, I've discovered that pretty much any spiritual path (or not spiritual path as the case may be) will have its struggles and its benefits.

 

My father is still a Catholic. My mother is still an athiest, so is my husband. My daughter goes to church with me on Sunday, and if she asks "is this real?" "Is that how this works?" I tell her this:

 

"Some people believe that x is real, some people don't. I believe that x is real (or not real depending)." If her Dad is there, we throw in his belief too. Or if it's just him answering the question, its kind of the same.

 

My family is a HIGHLY conflictual one, but oddly enough, the only thing they DON'T argue about (or argue with me about) is religion. (Unless my Dad is REALLY loaded. Then maybe once every five years he'll say something about Mormons, but it usually isn't anything sensical and I don't take it personally.)

 

You and your wife are two different people with two different world views on probably LOTS of things, I didn't buy into either of my parents belief systems, and worked out my own. Sometimes I've gotten asked "How did you become a Mormon if you were raised by a Catholic and an Athiest?" "My response has been, " Because I was raised by a Catholic and an Athiest." I usually get a laugh.

 

I know what it's like to not believe in a specific spiritual path, so I don't cajole my husband, nor do I force my worldview on my child. I think that if she finds joy and fulfillment in it, she will gravitate toward it. I find it provides stability and happiness. My husband as well is very respectful of my faith and says he somewhat envies people that have a faith, but he does not.

 

Arguing about what someone believes is kind of like arguing about what food tastes good. It is something shaped by our experience, biology and perception of things. It is really foolish to argue with someone about "how" they themselves perceive things. They generally know how they do. And frankly, no matter what spiritual/religious/atheistic path I've been on, people have always tried to tear down my worldview or convince me to change "for my own good" or to suit their agenda, or even just to be plain insulting. It never worked well.

 

But overall, even though my church views infant baptism as a blasphemy, I can honestly say that I don't recall it in the least. It was done before I could consent and therefore I did not believe that it held any bearing on who I chose to become when I got older. I have no ties to the Catholic church and have no intentions or cravings to foster any.

 

Nice Pope though. This time.

[TaraMaiden2]

"Only the good die young"- Billy Joel

 

Copycat....

 

"He whom the gods favour dies in youth."

Titus Maccius Plautus (254-184 BC)

 

"So wise so young, they say, do never live long."

William Shakespeare (1564-1616)

(King Richard II, [1592-1593], Act III, Scene III)

 

"The best of men cannot suspend their fate:

The good die early, and the bad die late."

Daniel Defoe (1660-1731)

[aussietigerwolf]

I was baptised and even confirmed... None of it changed the way I thought. I was always a druid at heart

[CarrieT]

I was baptized and embraced occultism at the age of 11. Here I am, in my 50s, and nothing has changed for me.

 

Like another said, it is just water on the head....

[candycane82]

I'm not an atheist but am not religious at all. I told my now ex husband we wouldn't baptize our daughter. She can choose when she's older what she wants to believe or not believe. None of his family really goes to church anymore anyway. I think one sister goes to Methodist church instead of Catholic church as they were raised. He doesn't really go to church but he's more spiritual since he's gotten sober.

 

 

Last summer when we split he did almost do it behind my back. He asked if he could take her to church and that the pastor just came up to him out of nowhere and asked if he wanted to get her baptized. He claims he said he had to ask me. I said no you can't. I have legal and physical custody. I make the decisions. And there's no reason to do it now.

 

 

But I did also realize even if she did now, it doesn't mean anything. I mean what does some water on a baby really do? Honestly I could baptize her really. It's not like a priest or minister has some special powers or something.

 

 

But if you agreed to it before you can't really back out now. Go ahead and do it - doesn't mean the kid has to be Catholic. I was raised Catholic. Baptized, First Communion, Confirmation. I haven't practiced it since high school. I left then and never really believed in it anyway. Throwing water on a baby's head doesn't make them a certain religion technically. It's just a ceremony.

[Arieswoman]

Taucher,

I have read through this entire thread and I am a bit confused.

 

 

You said that you married someone who was "nominally a Catholic". Now what does that mean?

 

 

When you got married did you have a civil ceremony or a religious one?

[MightyPen]

OP,

 

You have the right to change your mind. People change their mind about what they will do in the future all the time. People "find religion" out of the blue all the time and they expect everything to change when that happens!

 

Flip the script. Let's say you had both been "non-believers" when you married and had agreed that you'd raise kiddos to be secular, and then she later found religion. Would people here say, "Nope! You made a deal with your husband to NOT expose your kiddos to religious stuff. You can't back out now!"??

 

That being said, there's no "inbetween" solution here. Either it happens or it doesn't. I'm not sure what to tell you other than I think you're in for a lifetime of disagreements about religious stuff. It sucks because if someone REALLY thinks that things A, B and C must happen to "save the baby's soul" or whatever, then you're in for quite a fight.

[Earlybird]

Stay strong.

 

I'm from the UK too, and married into a Brazilian family here in Brazil. A mix of Catholics and Spiritualists.

 

I foolishly married in a church as I thought it would please my mother-in-law, and I got pressured (by my husband and the church) into telling what seemed like just a white lie at the time and saying I was Church of England. It seemed like a reasonable compromise, a sort of middle ground. In truth I did go through a phase, long ago, as a teenager, where I took myself off to confirmation lessons and got myself confirmed. Even taught in Sunday schools for a short while. But soon realised I'm actually an atheist.

 

Atheist is the hardest to come out of the closet about in Brazil. They say it doesn't matter what you believe in as long as you believe. It's a bit like saying to a football fan that you're not into football. It'd go a lot more smoothly if you told them you support their rival team.

 

As for christening, I've been putting it off for three years, which I'm not proud of.

 

So, no easy answer for you. Just to say I know what you're going through. Do you speak much Spanish? It may be good if you could talk this through with your inlaws. But then again, actions are often clearer than words.

[kztar]

Well I will say this,

 

You did marry a catholic woman and this is to be expected. Sometimes these are things you must weight out before marriage. Also it is NOT just water in your HEAD like most people here are saying it's a sacrament. If you follow religion it has a meaning. With that being said you must suck it up buddy. YOU made a choice when you married this woman. The way people practice religion as they get older is up to the child, but if you have parents and you are brought up going to church every sunday, completing other sacraments, your child will be more into the catholic religion. However if you have a parent who baptizes the child but never attend mass and dont do anything then the child will grow up to be like many catholics, just someone who classifies themselves as a catholic. Point blank.