Is this hopeless? I feel like such a cliche.

[Confused7765]

If this is a revenge affair, should I just write it off as a lost cause?

[privategal]

Let him know your making a firm break right now and I would be either dating...or being fully alone to work on you but zero contact.

He has to come to you single and healed.

If its meant to be even 6 months or a year later it will but too many unknowns now.

 

He may have said things to you like Im falling in love with you in an emotional fog while he had alot of hurt and void. The new relationship butterflies play a big part.

Your in the middle like it or not, intentionally or not.

Theres still alot there between them since hes gone back many times.

You just might not even feel as strongly for him after the fog lifts and you've had alot of space to process.

Just have the talk asap and accept whatever will be will be.

You might just 'know' the right thing once you step back and detach your emotions.

Right now stick close to family and your girlfriends and enjoy a break to only focus on your world and let time and the universe decide what will come of it.

It will feel like a relief to not have so much confusion. He needs to do it alone and you need your space too, its too exhausting.

Time will be good.

Think of it positively.

Dont have false hope.

Dont obsess.

Just be firm you cant speak right now, and for him to sort his life, then go do you for awhile.

[Confused7765]

Thank you for the advice. We had the firm no contact talk last week and both have stuck to it since. I'm not worried about myself being the one breaking the no contact, just a little apprehensive of him coming back around saying he is ready and me falling for it and then him not actually being ready. I am also worried I'm being completely foolish being open to this at all in the first place if he does come back saying he is ready. Truthfully I would be genuinely surprised if they end up actually reconciling this and coming out happy on the other side. As long as he is unhappy, I think there is a good chance he will come back around. I question whether given all this information if I should just walk away and not be open to it at all if/when he does.

[privategal]

Thank you for the advice. We had the firm no contact talk last week and both have stuck to it since. I'm not worried about myself being the one breaking the no contact, just a little apprehensive of him coming back around saying he is ready and me falling for it and then him not actually being ready. I am also worried I'm being completely foolish being open to this at all in the first place if he does come back saying he is ready. Truthfully I would be genuinely surprised if they end up actually reconciling this and coming out happy on the other side. As long as he is unhappy, I think there is a good chance he will come back around. I question whether given all this information if I should just walk away and not be open to it at all if/when he does.

 

Thats what no contact will help with is detaching and letting your emotions stabilize and the cloud of gray and confusion to lift so you can see clearly.

Id personally do some yoga and try some guided meditation videos on youtube and get in touch with your gut and intuition.

When/if he comes back...maybe form a list of questions you need certainty and strong answers on. Ask yourself deep down if your able to trust him. Ask yourself if this truly is the man for you if he was 100% single.

Maybe it was just all the excitement and butterflies of new progressing love. Maybe you don't really want him.

Focus on following your heart and trusting your red flag and bs meter when or if he comes back. Think if you had a sister or best friend in your shoes how would you advise them to proceed?

Good luck.

[Confused7765]

Thank you.

[Confused7765]

I made a list of questions I would need certain and solid answers to and I feel it's helped already in setting my own boundaries and answering some of my own questions. Much appreciate the advice.

 

I had deleted him from all social media last week, but hadn't been able to bring myself to delete all our text messages or his phone number. I did that just now and think it will help, as there's nothing for me to go back and obsess over now (except what's in my own head, I guess).

Edited December 20, 2015 by Confused7765

[SincereOnlineGuy]

A lot of the original post has some good things, but a major flaw i the whole thing is the guy who doesn't have enough sense or instinct to maintain relationship structure in his life.

 

Nothing's wrong with you and him being drawn to one another, but you're both unwise to have pushed past the level of mere coworkers while he is in a relationship.

 

 

And whether YOU have technically "cheated" or not doesn't really matter given you have participated IN his cheating.

 

It is those blurred lines, and not the idea/chance that either of you might cheat in the future, which is indicative of problems here.

 

 

Now sure, you might get pregnant by him in a couple of months, and have the most amazing baby in the world... and be caused to deal with one another as coparents for the rest of your days. (to what may still be an incredible human)

 

 

BUT, this blurring of sensible boundaries (on more than one level) is going to undo you as a potential couple.

 

So just draw some CLEAR LINES and stick to those boundaries... and it doesn't even matter what the logical boundaries ARE. - just HAVE some.

[Confused7765]

I think you really hit the nail on the head with what has made me feel so wary about the situation in general but that I haven't been able to pinpoint/articulate. I completely agree. I think those clear lines are what I'm seeking with this no contact, and I think my apprehension about the situation in general is because I don't trust he's very good with boundaries in general (and probably I am not, either but I feel more control over things in that sense and so don't consciously view it as an issue, though clearly it was lack of boundaries on both our parts that got us here). Definitely something to think about. Thank you.

[RecoveringSlowly]

This has all the makings of a revenge affair. That or an exit affair. Only time will tell.

 

Does that mean he doesn't care about you? No, it doesn't, and I think he might. But he was reacting from a place of pain. You are absolutely correct when you say that he didn't get over her affair, but here is the problem with revenge affairs: all they do is take all the rage you felt at your partner and turn it inward into self loathing.

 

He needs to figure out what he is going to do, and he needs to do it without you around. Right now you are filling his emotional needs while at the same time making him feel like he doesn't deserve his gf, like he is wronging her. Add to that the fact that she is probably bending over backwards right now to please him or risk losing her income stream is not helping the feelings of guilt and inadequacy.

 

He is in a toxic relationship. I doubt they have loved each other for a long time. But until he realizes that and deals with it there is nothing for you here.

 

Here is what I would do, in your shoes: NC until he breaks it off with her. If he feels like he needs to work through his relationship and make a decision, he has to do that without you. If he moves out and GETS HIS OWN PLACE, not a hotel room, I would allow contact, but only phone/email. No kisses, no sex, no drinks. When he is about 90 days out of the relationship and starting to get his life together is when I would really see a chance for this.

 

He needs to leave for himself. Not because of you or her. He needs to realize that he is worth more, and that becoming something he despises (a cheater) is not the way to get it. Maybe counselling, maybe a support group, I don't know. But he needs time and space to sort through this. He also needs time alone to rediscover himself as a person, so that he comes to you as a whole, confidant man and not someone in need of saving.

 

The only question is, do you love him enough to give him that space? And do you love yourself enough to demand that your lover come to you because of you, and not as the best way out of a bad situation?

[Confused7765]

Thank you for your response. I really appreciate how you laid that out and agree with everything you said. I think in the back and forth we had going on, I was vacillating between wanting to give him that space so he could figure things out and feeling a strong need for validation that this meant anything to him in the first place. We've had about a week of no contact and while I do miss him, I haven't felt like this is the wrong decision at all or like I want to contact him. I do genuinely want him to figure this all out for himself and I want to make sure that with this space, I have figured out for myself what it is I want out of this situation, as well. I would never trust the relationship if I didn't truly believe he felt he made the right decision and made it of his own accord. I think your plan as far as actually having his own place + at least 90 days is a spot on one and I think that's what I will intend to follow if he does end up coming to a point where he feels he's ready and ends up contacting me. In the meantime, I will stick to no contact and focus on myself/be open to dating other people. Thank you again for your advice, I really appreciate it.

[The Way I Am]

Yes, stick to no contact. Don't even think about timetables or when he might be ready to date again. Those are all his problem. You need to treat this as though he chose her over you (because he really did). Move on and get over him. If he ever happens to break up with his gf and you happen to feel the same way, then you can start over fresh.

 

With setting a timetable of when you'll start to move on, you're just delaying the pain and leaving the door open for more excuses to extend the timetable. If 90 days or 9 months from now he hasn't broken up with her, do you want to have moved on (at least started to) or do you want to have been drawn back in, buying excuses for why he hasn't left yet?

 

All you have right now is maybe he'll leave her, and after that, maybe he'll date you. That's 2 maybes. Some of the best advice I've ever gotten was from a guy I dated for maybe a year who wasn't sure he wanted a relationship. His advice was that I should have known that maybe meant no. That was hurtful considering the source, but no less true.

 

Every time I haven't treated a maybe as a no, I've gotten burned. Don't make that mistake.

Edited December 21, 2015 by The Way I Am

[Confused7765]

I appreciate the response, but I don't think I ever said I wasn't going to work on moving on from this in the meantime. I was the one who initiated no contact and I've said throughout this thread that I have no intention of breaking it and that I intend to continue dating other people, as I have throughout this entire time I've known him. I have no intention of stopping my life for someone who hasn't made up their mind. That said, it would be naive of me to walk away from this being unprepared for if he does try to come back into my life, because that's what I have done the last few times and each time he has come back having made a change (telling her he wants to move out, breaking up) and then I have been susceptible to falling back into old habits as a result. My question wasn't about whether no contact and moving on are best for now - they clearly are - my question was about what the proper boundaries to set are for when he inevitably does try to come back. For me, having a plan and boundaries in place for when that does happen is part of my process of moving on, so that I feel like I have a clear idea of what my requirements are so I can turn him down the next time he tries to come back not having met them. But thank you for your response.

[The Way I Am]

Sorry, I got the impression you were treating this NC as space not as moving on. Rereading, I still get that impression.

 

You asked whether you should write it off as a lost cause? The answer is yes, because that's moving on. Anything else is just space -- and you know how well that's succeeded so far.

 

Treat the situation as though he's not coming back. Don't waste anymore mental energy wondering about what to do if he does break up with her, how long it should be afterward, etc. You can deal with that if (big if) it actually happens. He made you wait for him to make up his mind, he can wait for you to make up yours if it comes to that.

 

Until then, thinking about those things is getting in the way of moving on.

[Confused7765]

We may have different definitions of moving on or ways or processing emotions. I do intend to treat the situation as if he is not coming back, but knowing him, he will at some point try to contact me and I need to make sure I have boundaries in place in my mind that I've established with a clear head during NC, because I know that if I don't think about this and if I act as though it's done forever, I will be ill prepared with proper boundaries to set up when he inevitably says he is ready but likely isn't actually.

 

I feel like I've answered that question for myself with the help of recoveringslowly. Him being moved out + 90 days before I give any thought to pursuing anything if he comes back around is a reasonable boundary to me - I agree about him needing to be willing to wait for me after all of this. Beyond that, moving on is a practice for me - NC, dating other people, focusing on myself - but there's never going to be a time where him coming back around isn't going to throw me off guard and I wanted to make the best use of NC by establishing those boundaries for myself before he comes back saying he is ready. I don't say that in the sense of false hope. Do I think realistically he will meet my move out + 90 day requirement? No, but I know him well enough to know he will come back saying he's made some sort of change and is ready but will likely not actually be. I am trying to protect myself for when that inevitably comes so that I can defend against it and not get sucked back in.

 

I don't want to leave it to when he comes back saying he's ready to decide on those boundaries, because I don't trust I will be setting them with as clear a head as I have during NC.

Edited December 21, 2015 by Confused7765

[privategal]

Now that you've set some parameters and boundaries you should turn your focus away from him for a bit.

Make some goals for new year...be healthy, go get involved in something new

..

You've given him alot of thought which has been helpful thus far.

But now, there's no indication of how it will go, if he loves her still, loves you more, if he will come back, if his promises will be sincere.

And it's a beautiful magical time of year that you don't deserve to spend trying to iron out all the "what ifs".

He had a clear opening, a sure bet with you.

 

He didn't take it.

Now he doesn't get to have all of your positive experiences over holiday dwelling on him.

Hes got his hands full with drama and now you get your hands full with living a good, fun, positive single life.

Go have some fun and try to let this go.

I think the subtle feeling on this thread is, he actually doesn't deserve a second shot.

But nonetheless you still care but at least take this opportunity to be selfish as he has and worry about ONLY YOU!

[Confused7765]

I agree. I feel like I figured out all the answers I was seeking when I posted yesterday. Thanks to all of you for your insight.

[bathtub-row]

This is what's so charming about these triangle situations. You constantly feel confused, constantly try to get into his head, constantly try to fit the pieces together in order to create some kind of cohesive puzzle in the mess. It's a total mind-screw.

 

I always thought that xMM coming back to me (over and over again) and finding it hard to let me go were positive signs. At the end of the day, those things meant nothing.

 

I don't like the way this guy is vacillating. His decision should be easy but it's not. That's the only answer you need. He is still in the relationship with his gf. Sex, no sex, love, no love, respect, no respect. It doesn't matter. He's still there. End of story. Keep dating others and don't let him back into your life until he has resolved this situation. And, btw, don't hold your breath. I don't think he's going anywhere. Because for most people if they were already unhappy and their partner cheated on them, that would be the end game. For him, it wasn't.

[The Way I Am]

I here what you're saying and if you feel that's best for you, I respect that decision. But I also don't want to remain silent when I see someone potentially making a mistake. I'm not sure I'm getting what I'm trying to say across right.

 

I agree you're taking the right steps. But I think you're leaving the door too far open by saying if he comes back after having broken up with her after X days, you're willing to take him back. You're planning to go through the motions but still hold out hope.

 

I've had to choose to give up and move on for lots of various reasons (not ready for a relationship, spending too much time with an ex, etc). And whenever I've held out hope and told myself "only if he comes around under X conditions", it's just lead to prolonging the heartbreak and bad decisions.

 

Almost every guy who has rejected or dumped me came back around after I decided to give up hope and really move on. Unfortunately for them, by that time, I'd already realized I was better off without them.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that when you've made the choice to move on, him coming back around isn't going to throw you. As long as you hold out hope, it probably will.

 

Let yourself get a little bit pissed off at his decision.

 

Decide that if he comes back tomorrow or a year from now no matter how long he's been out of his relationship, your answer will still be no.

 

And if he wants you, it's up to him to prove to you that there's a damn good reason why you should trust and believe him enough to give him a second shot. From reading your posts, I think you have a good judgement on that. You just lost objectivity in regard to him. I've always found that deciding that I'm done putting up with bs is the best way to get my objectivity back.

 

I don't know if I can explain my POV any better than that. If leaving the door open if he comes back 90 days out of his relationship is what you feel you need to do, I'll support you on that.

Edited December 21, 2015 by The Way I Am

[Confused7765]

As a quick update, we had to email this afternoon about something work related. He added into the conversation that over the weekend, she finally admitted she had sex with her AP back when she was seeing him, though she gave no other details as far as timeline, etc. She had been denying it this whole time, though from texts he had known there was more to it. I should have just left it at that, but asked him how he felt about her telling him. He said he felt very unsettled and hurt, and bothered because she now thinks because he slept with me that they are "even" and they can just go back to how they were. He said for him, it stirred everything emotionally back up about her affair. He said he missed me a lot. It wasn't a conversation of him trying to get me to come back, but more one of us both acknowledging how far he emotionally has to go in general. Not even to somehow potentially be with me, but in general for himself. They are not back together, but he obviously has a lot to work out. I find myself feeling sad for him and also weirdly glad she finally told him the truth, even if it was a small part of the truth. I feel like he was never going to be able to move on without that and that was a big part of what kept him feeling stuck- that he never really knew for sure what happened from her. It also put more into perspective to me that this isn't my battle to fight. Though I know it may not have seemed that way from my posts, I had let go of this over the past week more than I realized. I do care deeply about him, but there is something liberating about having had this conversation with him and for the first time feeling empathy instead of competition/a need for validation and truly feeling that this isn't my problem. I know I may have sounded defensive in some of my posts, but I truly do appreciate all of your feedback. I did listen and I honestly think running all of my thoughts by you all helped speed up the process of clarity. We left it on good terms, but I told him I was done for good and for once, I actually feel that way. You all are right, my moving on isn't going to be predicated on having a plan for if/when he comes back. I feel open to it in the sense that if things are meant to be, they will, but not hopeful or that it's something to hold onto or something to plan for or have a defense against if he comes back around. I genuinely want him to be happy and recognize that there is no way for that to happen if I am in his life right now. And more importantly, there's no way for me to be happy as long as he is still coming to terms with her affair. Thank you for your patience and kindness when telling me what I obviously needed to hear. I truly appreciate it.

[privategal]

If only he knew or could understand you don't want or need the updates, that its harmful for you to be his emotional support, that sometimes caring is two people allowing the other to find their own path and strength without holding the other to being their bandaid.

[Confused7765]

I agree, and I think the fact that he told me was part of what made me able to feel like I was done. I just don't want to be that anymore. He got upset when I said that I was done for good, but I just don't want to be involved like this. Hopefully he respects my wishes and doesn't contact me, regardless of what comes of his situation, but I'm at the point where I'm not going to respond to him at all if he does.

[Popsicle]

He needs a therapist, not you.

[Popsicle]

This is what's so charming about these triangle situations. You constantly feel confused, constantly try to get into his head, constantly try to fit the pieces together in order to create some kind of cohesive puzzle in the mess. It's a total mind-screw.

 

I always thought that xMM coming back to me (over and over again) and finding it hard to let me go were positive signs. At the end of the day, those things meant nothing.

 

I don't like the way this guy is vacillating. His decision should be easy but it's not. That's the only answer you need. He is still in the relationship with his gf. Sex, no sex, love, no love, respect, no respect. It doesn't matter. He's still there. End of story. Keep dating others and don't let him back into your life until he has resolved this situation. And, btw, don't hold your breath. I don't think he's going anywhere. Because for most people if they were already unhappy and their partner cheated on them, that would be the end game. For him, it wasn't.

 

Right exactly. If a WS was coping somehow and living with things with whatever marital problems they had before they cheated, then they will continue to stay and cope just fine after they cheat too. Maybe even better now. They aren't going anywhere.

 

(Added: this goes for both your MM and his wife)

[Confused7765]

I agree. I'm glad to be out of it to be honest with you.

[privategal]

Have you been strong enough to block him via phone and email then so that he can't pull you back in or interfere with your healing and moving forward?

I see a weak man, someone who cant make a decision for his own health and for true love and he truly had you feeling sorry for him, was saying all the right things to have you staying in his corner, being a shoulder to cry on...and the thanks you got is..yes...let's do NC so I can focus on my cheater of a girlfriend I opted not to leave you for even though your heart and love was true...wait patiently on me and if I can't work it out with her, I'll come back to you ready since you've been waiting...then you'll just have to trust I won't ever cheat on you.

Unfortunately at this point your starting off in a straight uphill battle with tons of baggage even if he did come back, so Im glad your FINALLY saying thanks but no thanks!