Dealing with wife's affair.

[Furious]

OP

 

The betrayal is a hard pill to swallow and it's a normal reaction to be devastated by it. What's not healthy is to stay stuck in it and allow this to consume you.

 

Often, the fear of letting go is far greater than clinging to what could have been.

 

The betrayal is one thing but it goes far deeper than that. Betrayal also brings with it a load of personal issues, past and present that demands to be recognized and evaluated. It's a challenging exercise to admit how fragile we can be and the chink in the armour that cuts so deep

 

By focusing solely on the betrayal and placing bandaids on wounds is not the answer.

 

Truly, it's not the end of the world, even though it may feel like it.

 

Sometimes, it's not what happens to you but how you deal with what happens.

 

Letting go is not giving up, it's a truce with oneself, it's acceptance of what is at the moment, it's a time out, it's an allowance to step away from the vortex and to find firm ground.

 

It's not anyone's job to make you feel safe, that can only come from within, until you trust yourself and feel confident within yourself , is when you can do what is best for yourself.

[ShatteredLady]

We've been together all of our adult lives. That's 26 years for me now. He's watched me grow-up & vice-versa. He's the only person in the world who can look at something with me & laugh for exactly the same reason.

 

We've lived our lives together. Experienced most things together. He sat by my bed for over 72 hours as they flushed my body with agonizing magnesium to stop my son being born so prematurely that he would of been unlikely to live. He spoke at my brothers funeral.

 

We swam naked in the Thames, I held him when his mother died, I could list a million big & small things that make us, us. Everything will be less without him.

 

I loved my little life. I love my little family, I truly do.

 

I think having severe health issues has made me skip the mid-life-crisis stuff. I don't think about not achieving things, reevaluating my life, needing thrills etc. because I'm relieved to be alive. I just want to be safe & loved. My little family is EVERYTHING to me.

 

It's incredibly stressful living through emergency surgery of a loved one....I went to a docs appointment....they wouldn't even let me pop home to explain to my H what was happening. We went from me 'feeling bad' too my H being told I couldn't survive another 24 hours without surgery.

He lost his job (complete blindside) a couple of weeks later. He'd never had to take care of the kids & the house. It made him fear for the long term results of my spine degeneration....just as midlife crisis stuff hit.

 

He's not a bad man. The human brain is a complicated thing. Sometimes people are overwhelmed & the escapism of a fantasy can be (very misguided) self medicating.

[Naively.Sensitive]

Quote - "Are there times when you are also not "capable" of connecting with your husband as a betrayed wife?"

 

 

Yes! Of course there are. There's a difference between rejecting or punishing him & really feeling it though. If he really needs a quick cuddle I can do that. I can't hold his face, stare into his eyes, kiss around his face ending with a passionate kiss on the lips. I don't melt into him as I did before but that's coming back slowly.

 

Am I right in faking it sometimes? If I truly believe it ultimately brings us closer together....Yes!

 

My 'issue' is what they call 'triggers'. We can be cuddling & I catch a little line in a song or something said on a TV show & my stomach sinks & my breath catches.

 

One of their 'things' was "What are you wearing?". I was standing in the kitchen in a towel. He came-up to me with 'that' look on his face & smiled "Hey sexy! What ya wearing?". I froze & burst into tears & nealy threw-up!

 

Sometimes I wish I hadn't found those stray emails & read their private conversations. It's haunting!

 

In the early days there were times that I had a complete panic attack when we were intimate. No matter how hard I tried it was an overwhelming physical reaction...nausea, shaking, struggling to catch my breath...this incredible urge to cover my nakedness (which felt like vulnerability) & run away from him.

After the first time I forced myself (in my dressing-gown) to calm myself & try to explain what was happening. He didn't get-it but the next day (after having the night to process it) he was more understanding.

 

I'm now wondering if I'm doing right or wrong. I asked my H if OW had contacted him over the holidays. He answered but then said, "What does it matter? We're over all of that now aren't we!". Ugh!!! No 'We're' NOT!!

 

Does the fact that he thinks that mean I've rug-swept?

 

So now I'm stuck! Things are definitely better but I'm still crying a lot & having PTSD symptoms. My H suffers from depression. Usually very self deprecating depression. I feel that he can't full grasp how much damage he's done. It will cause him a LOT of pain if I truly explain the devastation, the life changing carnage he's inflicted on me.

I thought he knew so keeping quiet was ok because he was suffering & I'd be rubbing salt into his wounds....now I know he doesn't get-it & isn't suffering anymore I'm reassessing my actions. I'm feeling resentment...which is a very new (unpleasant) emotion for me. I think it will be destructive.

 

To be honest I'm paralyzed! I have all of these reasons to hit him hard with the truth AND reasons to struggle to let it go now. This time of year is my first anniversary of it happening so I'm triggering a LOT. I now know how he was judging me & the things I did to celebrate for my family last year. I know the horrible things he said so 'traditions' (that my kids need) are very hard for me.

 

I read the emails & discovered the truth (finally! After a lot of trickle truth & gas lighting) in August. He thinks it's been a long time. I feel like it's no time at all.

 

I'm not the best person to take that kind of advise from. I'm still a mess. It's complicated because she was his ex-mistress from 12 years ago & I believe getting back in contact with her was partly a passive aggressive punishment for me!

 

I know what you mean by the triggers. One of my triggers is when my wife laughs. It reminds me of a time when she was speaking to him on the phone, when she was teasing her affair partner about some other woman he was looking at. At the time when I heard her talk to him, I only heard her side of a comment and then a laugh, and I did not know she was having an affair with him at the time. I just thought it was friendly innocent talk with her boss.

 

Now (even as I type this message), I'm hearing her laugh at a joke with my daughter and it sends feelings of disgust down my spine. It also sends feeling of anger and I'm sure that if my wife comes up to the room to tell me that dinner is ready, I would have lost my appetite and will probably decline to eat.

 

In many ways, she resembles most wayward spouses, including your husband. Even if she sometimes understands my pain, its very easy for her to forget, in the context of daily living, that she has now given me a permanent disease of pain, PTSD and the feeling of a "band aided" relationship that will never be the same for me as it once was.

 

I also cry a lot, mostly everyday, with triggers as well as when I go long without any emotional connection with her.

 

I feel that paralysis and limbo that you have described too and its also about the 9 month mark of the DDay for me, 1 year mark of the start of her affair.

 

I will tell you more about the depression I suffer, specifically the questions you had asked me from a previous message.

 

As betrayed spouse, there may be some variations in what we suffer as man and woman, but by and large, the feelings, pain and suffering is very similar. I can relate to almost every feeling, emotion, thought and pain that you have described.

[ShatteredLady]

Furious. I understand your good intent behind statements like this...

 

"It's not anyone's job to make you feel safe, that can only come from within, until you trust yourself and feel confident within yourself , is when you can do what is best for yourself."

 

...it might not be anyone's job to make me feel safe....actually I think in ways it is!! For my HUSBAND, my FAMILY, I made myself incredibly vulnerable. I trusted my choices & I've never had issues with liking myself or being confident within myself.

 

The very best thing for US as a family, for my H was for us to move to the USA. Away from my 'safety'. My family & friends.

The best thing for our family was me staying home to care for our children when they were born....destroying my career! It would be IMPOSSIBLE for me to remain in this country if my H left me.

 

It's no ones fault but my health makes me pretty unemployable but I'm not entitled to any kind of financial assistance here. We plan to return home this summer....I'm too vulnerable to remain in this country without 100% faith in my husband.

 

He stole my love story. He stole my safety. He wasn't leaving! If he'd been miserable & wanted divorce I could of made choices to make me SAFE!

 

Safety is a HUGE trigger word for me. When you have very frightening health conditions safety & security are HUGE. All the self improvement & confidence in the world isn't going to fix my body or stop those cells multiplying.

I understand that we all have choice over our lives. If we met today my H probably wouldn't choose to marry me with my health problems. It's his prerogative. If he doesn't want me now he can leave me BUT I do need to rely on outside sources for my safety. I need to know what's going on in my life so I can plan accordingly.

Infidelity in our situation is torture & abuse (it is in most situations) but I'm trapped....even if temporary....because I NEED safety & security for me & my kids.

 

Why do we say "No one can make you happy" when they sure a hell can make us miserable!

[ShatteredLady]

N.S. It struck me on my birthday (over a week into December) that I hadn't cried. That was the FIRST day since New Years Day 2015 that I hadn't! Every day, I wave my kids off the school, turn & start crying. I know!! I really do.

[ShatteredLady]

Have you read emails, texts etc.? Do you have a time-line of everything, exactly what happened, step by step, communication, how often they met, things they shared etc. etc.

 

I'm a 'need to know everything' & then HATE that I know so much kind of bs....

[Naively.Sensitive]

We've been together all of our adult lives. That's 26 years for me now. He's watched me grow-up & vice-versa. He's the only person in the world who can look at something with me & laugh for exactly the same reason.

 

We've lived our lives together. Experienced most things together. He sat by my bed for over 72 hours as they flushed my body with agonizing magnesium to stop my son being born so prematurely that he would of been unlikely to live. He spoke at my brothers funeral.

 

We swam naked in the Thames, I held him when his mother died, I could list a million big & small things that make us, us. Everything will be less without him.

 

I loved my little life. I love my little family, I truly do.

 

I think having severe health issues has made me skip the mid-life-crisis stuff. I don't think about not achieving things, reevaluating my life, needing thrills etc. because I'm relieved to be alive. I just want to be safe & loved. My little family is EVERYTHING to me.

 

It's incredibly stressful living through emergency surgery of a loved one....I went to a docs appointment....they wouldn't even let me pop home to explain to my H what was happening. We went from me 'feeling bad' too my H being told I couldn't survive another 24 hours without surgery.

He lost his job (complete blindside) a couple of weeks later. He'd never had to take care of the kids & the house. It made him fear for the long term results of my spine degeneration....just as midlife crisis stuff hit.

 

He's not a bad man. The human brain is a complicated thing. Sometimes people are overwhelmed & the escapism of a fantasy can be (very misguided) self medicating.

 

It gives me both extreme happiness and extreme sadness (about how your husband could risk all that and cause you so much pain) to hear your experiences of your life with your husband. After 26 years of marriage, I can only imagine that your lives have been intertwined to such an indistinguishable degree. It always happens. Even in the case of my wife and me, we have adopted so many aspects of our personalities into each other. There are even certain words and phrases I began using after I first met her... Words and phrases that she used to use. Likewise there are so many ways of thinking that she adopted from my ways of thinking. Its only natural that we assimilate into each other as life partners. And its only natural to feel that we're losing a part of ourselves when the thought of divorce and separation cross our minds, even as betrayed spouses.

 

One question I meant to ask was this: How was your relationship before the affair? I don't mean like petty fights and things like that because that is not really the mark of a bad relationship. I mean true unresolved issues. Was there a strong enough emotional and physical connection before the affair?

 

In the case of my wife and I, we may have drifted apart, but not to the degree that would cause me an alarm of my wife having an affair. I mean, I could never have even imagined that our relationship was so bad! It was a real shock, because for many many months I could not even believe it. There are many occasions on which my "nightmares" were the more pleasant experiences as the reality of waking up in the morning. It all seemed inverted.... I seemed to want to believe that my nightmares were real (even though they were really bad) and that my mornings when I woke up (reality) were just a dream.

I know many many couples for whom the relationship was in much worse a state than ours was..... Couples for whom the wife and husband would treat each other like crap, couples for whom the husband actually physically beat the wife, couples for whom there was 0 intimacy for a long, long time, etc. and in none of those cases was there an outcome of an affair.

 

Yes, nobody is bad, but people can certainly be irresponsible, truly not caring about the other person, rebelious, hateful or just plainly too self centered when they "choose" to have an affair. Its always a choice that they have made and not a matter of only the circumstances, because some other people in the same or worse circumstances "choose" differently.

[ShatteredLady]

My H is a computer super geek so he's constantly looking at a phone or computer!! Talk about trigger!!!

 

....and I know that he could hide ANYTHING he wants from me! His behavior is so different I think I'd know if he was having another A though. He becomes a completely different person.

 

I was so screwed-up by the step-by-step, intensifying meanness & withdrawal that I was so broken by the time I learnt the truth I was in no state to deal with it. He rewrote our history to such an extent that I was hating myself so much that I thought I'd driven him to such extreme depression....it was actually a relief to find out about the A....it was 'Oh! Here we go again!'....a lot of the damage was already done but things started to make sense. I thought I was going crazy before I found out.

[BettyDraper]

My heart aches when I read your posts, ShatteredLady and Naively Sensitive.

 

Is there any way that the two of you can have a separation under the same roof as your spouse? What I mean by that is no longer sleeping in the same bed and staying in a different part of your houses until you feel stronger. Obviously, you will still need to interact but you can mostly keep to yourselves until the dust settles a little bit.

 

My husband did some terrible things to be in the past. He did not cheat but there were many unacceptable actions. When we lived in an apartment, I mostly stayed in the second bedroom. I didn't mind being sexual and affectionate with my husband but I mostly kept to myself in the spare bedroom as well as on our balcony. My husband did not like this but he understood my need to protect myself.

[Naively.Sensitive]

Have you read emails, texts etc.? Do you have a time-line of everything, exactly what happened, step by step, communication, how often they met, things they shared etc. etc.

 

I'm a 'need to know everything' & then HATE that I know so much kind of bs....

 

I have a 10+ hour audio recording of all the experiences she related to me (over a 1 week duration of 2 hours each day), after she had confessed.

I was extremely angry and "demanded" to know everything, else I told her right away that it was either that or an immediate filing for a divorce. She willingly agreed to be recorded under the circumstances.

 

I have timelines, dates as far as she could remember, etc. I even drove to 2 of the many hotels she had been to, along with her, to inspect evidence that I could possibly use against that bastard, (whose parents probably cursed his birth), but one of her conditions to make this work was that I don't immediately retaliate. She was afraid that he would retaliate back to hurt our family in some way.

 

I am similar to you. I HAD to know everything and later, I HATED that I knew everything. I'm still glad that I know than if I did not. In the first few weeks, I felt like I had already become insane with the millions of questions that kept racing through my mind. There was no other way to slow down the questions. I still have many questions, but after a certain point she also put down a condition to not talk about it again. I told her that it was an unrealistic expectations. Now, most recently, after 5 months of her unwillingness to talk about it, it has stirred up more questions in my mind and more mistrust, so I have reimposed the condition back on her that in a couple of weeks, she better be prepared to answer any more questions (or even some repeat questions) I may have, otherwise it is going to be over, because I cannot handle being in any kind of the dark.

[Naively.Sensitive]

Furious. I understand your good intent behind statements like this...

 

"It's not anyone's job to make you feel safe, that can only come from within, until you trust yourself and feel confident within yourself , is when you can do what is best for yourself."

 

...it might not be anyone's job to make me feel safe....actually I think in ways it is!! For my HUSBAND, my FAMILY, I made myself incredibly vulnerable. I trusted my choices & I've never had issues with liking myself or being confident within myself.

 

The very best thing for US as a family, for my H was for us to move to the USA. Away from my 'safety'. My family & friends.

The best thing for our family was me staying home to care for our children when they were born....destroying my career! It would be IMPOSSIBLE for me to remain in this country if my H left me.

 

It's no ones fault but my health makes me pretty unemployable but I'm not entitled to any kind of financial assistance here. We plan to return home this summer....I'm too vulnerable to remain in this country without 100% faith in my husband.

 

He stole my love story. He stole my safety. He wasn't leaving! If he'd been miserable & wanted divorce I could of made choices to make me SAFE!

 

Safety is a HUGE trigger word for me. When you have very frightening health conditions safety & security are HUGE. All the self improvement & confidence in the world isn't going to fix my body or stop those cells multiplying.

I understand that we all have choice over our lives. If we met today my H probably wouldn't choose to marry me with my health problems. It's his prerogative. If he doesn't want me now he can leave me BUT I do need to rely on outside sources for my safety. I need to know what's going on in my life so I can plan accordingly.

Infidelity in our situation is torture & abuse (it is in most situations) but I'm trapped....even if temporary....because I NEED safety & security for me & my kids.

 

Why do we say "No one can make you happy" when they sure a hell can make us miserable!

 

ShatteredLady,

I'm sorry to hear about your health challenges. I completely agree with everything that you have mentioned here. I think it IS a responsibility of any spouse to make their partner feel safe. That is what vows and marriages are all about!

I don't mean to be sexist here, but I think its a greater responsibility for a man to make his woman feel safe than the other way around.

In many ways, I think that men need to feel safe too by their women, but in different ways.

More particularly, in your case, with your health challenges, its an even bigger responsibility for your husband to make you feel safe.

I would have given my life for my wife, if need be (not anymore, after her affair).... Obviously, most of my feelings and love for her have disappeared after the affair. Now, I just care enough about her to make sure she is physically safe, but I really have left her to deal with her own emotional safety, because her screwed up emotions are what were out of control anyway (which caused her to choose to have the affair to begin with). And it wasn't like she has a mental disease or anything like that.

[Naively.Sensitive]

They are already doing this...he's just waiting for his cheating wife to decide the fate of the Union.

 

He's left all that power to her. She gets to choose. He's just feeling stuck because he's waiting on her.

 

But she's delaying and undecided...looks like she's waiting on her OM to decide too.

 

She's not waiting on her OM. It seems like that is over, otherwise she would not have confessed to me 9 months ago and quit that job.

But my feeling is that she is shaken from the affair and not even sure about her feelings for me, because it seems like the end result of the affair was a very unpleasant feeling for her, of being used.

[turnera]

I haven't finished the thread yet, but in case this wasn't addressed, to me, this is the single biggest problem you two have:

 

6) Going for individual counseling as well as a few sessions of joint counseling with her.

 

Given your background and your own mental tendencies and your wife's (IMO) logical regression from being your emotional supporter, this simply isn't something the two of you are capable of fixing without a LOT of professional counseling support.

 

A 'few' sessions? Research, find, and book the best therapist in your city and start attending at least twice a month. It will probably take you at least six more months, if not a year, for the two of you to uncover all the hidden angst, agree on a new path, put it into action, and to see any real results.

 

None of which will happen without the help of a professional.

[turnera]

Over the holidays, she did make some effort to reconnect, emotionally and physically. She asked if I would join her in the jacuzzi, take a shower with her and kiss her. She also asked if I would just sleep next to her on the bed.

It seems like a tip-toe on her part towards physically reconnecting, but what I think I will need is a huge, passionate emotional and sexual outburst, almost like a wild woman who cannot stay away (physically or emotionally) from her man. One in which she is the one who wants to have sex with me, 3 times a week and wants to take sexy videos of us wearing sexy clothes and having sex. Is this reasonable to expect?

This is what I think I will need (consistently from her for atleast many months or a year or two) to get over the affair.

No, it is NOT reasonable to expect. You can't MAKE her think, feel, or be what is not coming naturally to her.

 

Why do you think she was that way with OM? It was HIM. HE made her FEEL things she didn't feel with you. Even though those feelings came about the wrong way, they were her feelings. So you can't just turn it on like a lightbulb.

 

Sorry for the gross analogy, but my image of this is you lying back on the bed, naked, and saying 'woman, DO me. BLOW MY MIND. And if you don't, you're gone.'

 

You pay women for that. And guess what? It's fake.

 

You want better with your wife? Fix your side.

[Naively.Sensitive]

I haven't finished the thread yet, but in case this wasn't addressed, to me, this is the single biggest problem you two have:

 

 

 

Given your background and your own mental tendencies and your wife's (IMO) logical regression from being your emotional supporter, this simply isn't something the two of you are capable of fixing without a LOT of professional counseling support.

 

A 'few' sessions? Research, find, and book the best therapist in your city and start attending at least twice a month. It will probably take you at least six more months, if not a year, for the two of you to uncover all the hidden angst, agree on a new path, put it into action, and to see any real results.

 

None of which will happen without the help of a professional.

 

I agree. That is why I'm now in the process of finding a good marriage counselor and booking the first available appointment. My wife has agreed to go together, to a marriage counselor.

I think the reason we have been failing when trying things together is that she has been entitling herself to her own emotions, feelings and behaviors and I have perhaps been doing the same. We are seeming to be accountable to ourselves but not to each other.

 

One question I have is this: Does or can a marriage counselor enforce some accountability to what is agreed on? Is there also any accountability enforced to arrive at a joint consensus to an action plan when going to a marriage counselor? If not, can some level of both of these types of accountability be requested by one or both of us?

[turnera]

The question is: If I'm able to separate my pain and suffering from her conscious knowledge and able to manage it independently of her, what can I do to attract my wife (emotionally and sexually) back to me?

Is it the same as if I were trying to woo a new woman? Or do the dynamics become different for wooing back a wife who cheated?

In my experience with others in your situation, and assuming she's not lying about feeling controlled by you and affected by your anger, the thing that you need to do is to UNDERSTAND what it felt like to be her in this marriage.

 

Now, before you all you jump on me and say you have to divorce her period, OP is asking how to save the marriage. So I'm answering that.

 

I, too, felt controlled by my H financially (he made ALL our major decisions) and I, too, felt intimidated and I withdrew from him because of his anger. It's what women do. It's how we react to prolonged anger, rage, discomfort - we withdraw and protect ourselves from you. Our husband was supposed to be our safe person; instead he turned out to be the one we DON'T feel safe with.

 

So, again, assuming that she's not just a selfish, self-centered User, if you want her to be 'into' you again, you must first prove to her that you are safe.

 

Have you read the book His Needs Her Needs? It will explain about our needs and about the love busters (control, anger), and how the two feeds off of each other. I suggest you read it so you can understand what SHE has felt during your marriage. That knowledge will help you understand what she would need to see in order to start feeling safer with you and feeling like she wants to be intimate with you.

 

I don't know what her relationship with OM was like, but I promise you that he made her feel beautiful, amazing, desirable, sexy body, intelligent, and worth a lot. Compare that to how she felt with someone who made all her decisions for her (implication: she's too dumb) and who felt he had the right to lay into her in anger (implication: she's unworthy).

 

Get that in your head, and you should be able to see why she was a Sex Kitten with him and ... not ... with you.

 

Now, do you understand what's needed for you to get her to that place with you?

[turnera]

One question I have is this: Does or can a marriage counselor enforce some accountability to what is agreed on? Is there also any accountability enforced to arrive at a joint consensus to an action plan when going to a marriage counselor? If not, can some level of both of these types of accountability be requested by one or both of us?

Of course the counselor can. If you find a good one. Like I said, do your research. Find one who specializes in infidelity and accountability. Read reviews. Ask for references. A MC can either help or ruin your marriage. So take your time and get it right.

 

What I would do is, on the first visit, explain that that's what you want, that you don't want to just sit and talk each session and get nowhere, that you want real homework with real accountability and analysis. And make it clear AT that session that you are on the fence about staying married, but you're looking for a reason TO stay married. Your wife needs to hear that it's not just HER considering her options.

[Naively.Sensitive]

No, it is NOT reasonable to expect. You can't MAKE her think, feel, or be what is not coming naturally to her.

 

Why do you think she was that way with OM? It was HIM. HE made her FEEL things she didn't feel with you. Even though those feelings came about the wrong way, they were her feelings. So you can't just turn it on like a lightbulb.

 

Sorry for the gross analogy, but my image of this is you lying back on the bed, naked, and saying 'woman, DO me. BLOW MY MIND. And if you don't, you're gone.'

 

You pay women for that. And guess what? It's fake.

 

You want better with your wife? Fix your side.

 

I completely also understand what you are saying and her perspective. My feelings about it are this.... I know its not coming naturally to her at this point and that is why I'm not pressurizing her to feel or do anything. Infact, I have not "asked" her to feel or do anything, including move back into the bedroom.

 

Yet, this is what I feel I will need, to feel secure in our relationship. Sometimes, desperate situations and trauma require desperate cures.

 

The question I keep asking myself is this.... Why could this not be "naturally" coming out of her? I think of occasions in our marriage during which she did naturally (although shyly) approach me for her sexual needs. On some occasions (way earlier in our marriage) she also wanted to naturally be kinky with me. So, I ask myself,.... What has changed now?

 

One of the answers that seems to surface is a result of hints I get from conversations with her..... She mentioned that the entire experience of the affair has been terrible for her, because she has felt used and abused by that man, emotionally and sexually. She told me that if I even touch her body, sometimes it reminds her of that terrible feeling of being used by that "monster" (That is what she calls the person whom she had the affair with). It seems like this is what is coming in the way of her 100% inhibited intimacy towards me. There is also another factor.... In her perception, I seem to be an "emotional abuser" towards her, during the last 7 years in the marriage. She attributes this to the fact that:

 

1) I was in charge of the finances (self appointed, but not opposed to be jointly in charge) and used to make tough decisions about spending money. We did not have a bad life, but she found me to be too controlling (financially)

 

2) I used to get angry about certain things. Like the cat peeing on the bed. The cat is a neighborhood cat whom we had agreed we would only feed, outside the house, but eventually (due to a lack of responsibility) the cat found its way into the house for extended hours and made life harder for us. This is just an example, but I would also get upset about things like minor fender bender type of accidents, speeding tickets, or customer service agents who would jerk us around. Basically, I was a slightly angry person with life and with people who would not take responsibility to do their job (or play their role in life). I felt that it was always me who had to clean up other people's mess and as a result of that feeling, I used to hold people accountable according to my standards. This had nothing to do with her or any intent to be emotionally abusive in any way. I would also treat myself with the same accountability standards that I used to treat others and not "allow" myself any excuses for silly mistakes without learning from them, or not allow myself any conscious misconduct.

 

3) She was a submissive woman and thought that her being submissive was needed to keep me happy and keep herself happy as well. Its not that I wanted her to be submissive. Quite the opposite. I always involved her in every major (house) and minor decision (furniture, what flavor of icecream, where to go for dinner) we made. Sometimes those decisions were compromises between what we both wanted, sometimes it was completely her choice and at other times it was completely my choice.

 

She is mistaken to perceive that my behavior was directed specifically towards her and that I was being emotionally abusive towards her.

 

This perception is perhaps also interfering with her ability to see me as her husband who truly loved her (but wasn't willing to do "anything" just to prove it) and she is probably associating that in the present tense with a person who probably continues to "abuse" her.

 

To address all 3 of her past concerns, I have already made "major" changes, including handing over half of our financial control (her piece) to her, so she makes complete decisions about that piece, have worked on my anger management as well as explained to her that she cannot expect people to NEVER get angry and she has also exercised her own choices in the last 6 months to prove to herself that she does not have to be submissive to me and that she is an independent person who can and should make her own choices (which is absurd, because she DID make her own choice even before this change, when she had the affair)

 

Now, it seems to be a waiting game. Can she be a compassionate, loving and eventually a really passionate (emotionally and sexually) wife towards me? If not, maybe the feelings are just not there and I will choose to separate and move on in that case.

[Naively.Sensitive]

No!

 

You can't work on it unless BOTH people bring honesty to the table/appointment. People lie to therapists all the time.

 

Why would you think she magically going to be honest just because you may sit in front of a total stranger.

 

Who is she? Do you even know who she REALLY is at this point? Ask yourself!

 

Is this a woman who has my best interest in mind and loves me completely and enough to be honest with me OR is this a woman who's hiding things and is only thinking of her own needs?

 

That is an excellent point and I have thought about it deeply.

From this current point in time when she is so hesitant to even talk about how she felt during the affair (dismissing it as "irrelevant" for the present and future, because she has "changed"), it is certainly progress if she atleast does not mind talking about it in front of a marriage counselor.

Whether or not she will truly and honestly answer questions about her feelings during the affair in front of the counselor, only time will tell....

 

Is there a way to know how "true" and "honest" she is being? If she uses the umbrella of being manipulated by the affair partner, would or will the marriage counselor detect and call that excuse out?

[Naively.Sensitive]

Your wife's actions mirror that cat.

 

Yes, they do, but if they continue to, then she's out of my life for sure. I'm only allowing some reasonably leeway and giving her some space for her current emotional and mental state. I believe this is also a traumatic event for her and I cannot push her to a corner if I want to see her "real" feelings, after allowing her the space for her feelings to truly settle and for her to reflect, think and also make some decisions by herself about what she now wants and what she may have done (and its impact on me), to destroy what she may have always wanted.

 

Cats may not be capable of such deep, internal introspection and reflection, but humans are certainly capable and I need to treat her as a human and not as a cat.

[ShatteredLady]

I'd forgotten about the 'recorded confessions' & traveling to the hotels!

 

I still believe that if you want reconciliation you need to find out how she is feeling & thinking NOW. After the confession she gave 3 months of everything she thought you required of her.

 

I know everything changed after you went home & told your family. Was she having therapy when you were gone? Was a friend helping her?

 

To be HONEST lots of women here, myself included, are very sympathetic to you but also VERY uncomfortable with certain things you say...

 

Recording her is a bit strange to me. Listening to it excessively (if you do/did is bad)

Driving around hotels - Why?

The porn star sex thing - I know some others agree with me. It's not right. It makes my skin crawl.

 

I think, to reconcile, you both need to take a step back now, give to receive.

 

I haven't had that 3 months of reconciliation. We had a few days of final d-day. He had broken contact already. I read emails & saw receipts for all of her gifts. We started 'hysterical bonding' & that week I was first suspected to have cancer & had the biopsies.

 

Nothing's been 'normal' with us but I don't think your reconciliation is 'normal' either! I know there's no such thing as rules in reconciliation but you know what I mean....

 

I think a lot of people giving advise are forgetting that your wife confessed of her own free will AND did everything you demanded for 3 months....At the start she would be considered a very repentant WW.

 

What advise would we of given her if she came here & described what was expected of her, porn sex, recordings etc...?

[ShatteredLady]

Quote - "The question I keep asking myself is this.... Why could this not be "naturally" coming out of her? I think of occasions in our marriage during which she did naturally (although shyly) approach me for her sexual needs. On some occasions (way earlier in our marriage) she also wanted to naturally be kinky with me. So, I ask myself,.... What has changed now?"

 

 

For many women to be completely 'free' sexually they need to feel VERY safe & confident. She wasn't doing it 'just for you'. She was like that when she truly felt it.

 

I think she felt happy with making the video because she trusted you through the 'hysterical bonding'. She made you delete those films & she moved into the spare bedroom for a reason. She stopped trusting you! Was it telling your family or was it the controlling, abuse she talks of.

 

When women talk about control & abuse they're not talking about 'not paying 1/2 of the utility bills.'

 

For reconciliation you need to answer these things. I know it's incredibly hard. I truly do.

 

 

I haven't asked... Is your wife American?

[turnera]

2) I used to get angry about certain things. Like the cat peeing on the bed. The cat is a neighborhood cat whom we had agreed we would only feed, outside the house, but eventually (due to a lack of responsibility) the cat found its way into the house for extended hours and made life harder for us. This is just an example, but I would also get upset about things like minor fender bender type of accidents, speeding tickets, or customer service agents who would jerk us around. Basically, I was a slightly angry person with life and with people who would not take responsibility to do their job (or play their role in life). I felt that it was always me who had to clean up other people's mess and as a result of that feeling, I used to hold people accountable according to my standards. This had nothing to do with her or any intent to be emotionally abusive in any way. I would also treat myself with the same accountability standards that I used to treat others and not "allow" myself any excuses for silly mistakes without learning from them, or not allow myself any conscious misconduct.

I could have written this about my H, except for the last sentence. And it IS his anger that has resulted in me withdrawing from him, KNOWING he is not safe - who yells at his wife for a car accident? Just last night my H blew up at a restaurant manager and made a huge scene because our waitress was bad. Now HE thinks he did it FOR me, because he was counting on a nice, relaxing evening, so he felt dutybound to 'fight' for me. All I felt was ashamed, humiliated, and SO not wanting to be close to my H after that. He, too, would say it all had nothing to do with ME, but it was ME who felt the pain from his anger and withdrew. So you can SAY all you want that you're not the bad guy, you meant well, you were protecting her. But HER experience was completely different.

 

3) She was a submissive woman and thought that her being submissive was needed to keep me happy and keep herself happy as well. Its not that I wanted her to be submissive. Quite the opposite. I always involved her in every major (house) and minor decision (furniture, what flavor of icecream, where to go for dinner) we made. Sometimes those decisions were compromises between what we both wanted, sometimes it was completely her choice and at other times it was completely my choice.

Same with us. And he THINKS he involved me in every decision, but I have to ask you: did she REALLY come up with choices that were completely her choice, or did she sense what you wanted and give it to you? Or did you give her the chance to say what she wanted or thought and then you overrode what she said? That happened to me a LOT, but if you ask my H, he will completely disagree. I'm just asking you to be honest with yourself. Put your pride aside and TRY to see your marriage as she sees it.

 

She is mistaken to perceive that my behavior was directed specifically towards her and that I was being emotionally abusive towards her. This perception is perhaps also interfering with her ability to see me as her husband who truly loved her (but wasn't willing to do "anything" just to prove it) and she is probably associating that in the present tense with a person who probably continues to "abuse" her.

She is not mistaken in her perceptions. They are HER perceptions. I gather what you mean is she may THINK your behavior was directed toward her but YOU didn't mean for it to be. My H, too, would say the exact same thing. He loves me to death, he means well, but his choices, his anger, his controlling have forced me to step back out of self-protection. It makes no difference what you MEAN, if what SHE is experiencing affects her actions.

 

To address all 3 of her past concerns, I have already made "major" changes, including handing over half of our financial control (her piece) to her, so she makes complete decisions about that piece, have worked on my anger management as well as explained to her that she cannot expect people to NEVER get angry

Now, I want to point something out to you. You just basically gave an apology bundled with a "but." Which we all know is a worthless apology. I'm sorry I yelled at you but you made me mad. I'm sorry I bought the car I wanted, but you don't seem smart enough to make the right decision. I'm going to try to not be angry but you can't expect me to NEVER get angry at you.

 

Worthless and pointless and actually harmful.

 

Please understand I'm not saying she's the victim here. She cheated. She bought his schtick hook line and sinker and she didn't become the blubbering snot-nosed remorseful Ex-WW that I prefer to see.

 

What I AM saying is that, since you say you want to save the marriage, you have to approach it with a clear understanding of what SHE perceives.

[Naively.Sensitive]

I'd forgotten about the 'recorded confessions' & traveling to the hotels!

 

I still believe that if you want reconciliation you need to find out how she is feeling & thinking NOW. After the confession she gave 3 months of everything she thought you required of her.

 

I know everything changed after you went home & told your family. Was she having therapy when you were gone? Was a friend helping her?

 

To be HONEST lots of women here, myself included, are very sympathetic to you but also VERY uncomfortable with certain things you say...

 

Recording her is a bit strange to me. Listening to it excessively (if you do/did is bad)

Driving around hotels - Why?

The porn star sex thing - I know some others agree with me. It's not right. It makes my skin crawl.

 

I think, to reconcile, you both need to take a step back now, give to receive.

 

I haven't had that 3 months of reconciliation. We had a few days of final d-day. He had broken contact already. I read emails & saw receipts for all of her gifts. We started 'hysterical bonding' & that week I was first suspected to have cancer & had the biopsies.

 

Nothing's been 'normal' with us but I don't think your reconciliation is 'normal' either! I know there's no such thing as rules in reconciliation but you know what I mean....

 

I think a lot of people giving advise are forgetting that your wife confessed of her own free will AND did everything you demanded for 3 months....At the start she would be considered a very repentant WW.

 

What advise would we of given her if she came here & described what was expected of her, porn sex, recordings etc...?

 

The recordings were meant for me to reestablish trust in her by her demonstrating trust back in me (because she used language that clearly demonstrated that SHE did not trust me, which seemed extremely manipulative to me, considering that it should have been the other way around), but more importantly, those recordings were meant for me to be able to NOT ask the same questions over and over again. Questions like, "WHY did you do it?", or "Did you NOT love me at that point?". The questions were obsessive to me (as well as to her) and this was an "agreed" (and "consented") way to deal with the reoccurring thoughts.

 

We even started a notebook in which I would write certain racing thoughts and questions and she would write answers.

 

Honestly, I heard the audio recordings maybe 2 times and she later took the notebook away and "yanked" all the support she was initially giving me.

 

Yes, I don't consider the reconciliation to be "normal", but neither is an event as traumatic as such an affair. It was not "normal" for her to setup our son to watch TV upstairs in our bedroom while she had sex with this man in a different bedroom. I'm sure you can understand what that does to screw up a betrayed spouse's mind (particularly a male's mind who naturally wants to "lead" his family) to permanently mess it up for life.

Its like becoming a mentally handicapped person, and one way of helping a mentally handicapped person is to create the illusion of the opposite state of the event that has caused the trauma.

 

Depending on how these "abnormal" efforts are viewed or perceived (and even presented), my wife may be more capable of helping me in such ways than currently perceived.

To give you an example of what I mean, if I'm thoroughly gentle with her during sex (which I always have been as she also admits) and focus on her complete satisfaction (which I always have), even trying more things like going down on her orally or more sexually exciting things of "her" interest, couldn't it be more obvious to her that she can "trust" me and that I have both our interests in mind?

 

You are right. The first 3 months was when she offered her "full" support and we may have been already past the affair by now if she would have continued. Now, it seems like I have fallen further backward in trust and my feelings for her (after she abandoned me to create her own "space" to heal). The question is, what may be preventing her from offering such slightly "abnormal" support to help me heal? Assuming that she is capable of being kinky enough under "normal" circumstances (some past behaviors attest to that, when she felt like a teenage girl, completely "in love" and in "heat"), why would this circumstance be considered grossly "abnormal" (to such a high degree)?

 

One point she brought up during some honest conversations a few days ago, is that it did not feel "natural" to her to do these things because she did not feel "wooed" enough by me. She said that we did not go out for date nights to "build up" this passion and that I did not do "enough romantic" things to attract her passion and feelings. What she is saying is true. So, my question is this: Even if partly fake (at this stage), should I be doing some of these things (a candlelit dinner, a candlelit bathtub, etc) to "help her help me" (in my desire for a higher degree of passionate sex from her)?

Maybe then it would "feel" more natural for her, even to see me make an "effort" to be passionate (in her love language), even if partly contrived on my part?

[ShatteredLady]

Turnera...

 

"She cheated. She bought his schtick hook line and sinker and she didn't become the blubbering snot-nosed remorseful Ex-WW that I prefer to see."

 

...I get the impression that she was that kind of Ex-WW for the first 3 months. I think that needs to be taken into account.

 

She allowed hours of recordings. Driving around hotels. Lots of sex including making sex videos.

 

At some point in reconciliation you have to start working on the conditions that led-up to the vulnerability that got her manipulated in the first place. (If she was manipulated)

 

I find it so hard to know what's 'real' & whats cheaters excuses. My H said many things I could prove wrong. I don't know...