Guy I'm dating always wants to split the check

[Lois_Griffin]

Sweetie..... ^^^^you say you don't know how to bring it up.....you had the perfect opportunity right there!

 

Why on earth didn't you tell him the truth?

 

You keep paying for him, treating him. When you don't , he insists in splitting. He asked you flat out if you were okay with this.....and you tell him yes?

Truth is, he shouldn't have asked. It was a sleazy little manipulation tactic he used to get out of the promise he'd made a mere 24 hours before that HE'D be picking up the bill since she'd paid the entire bill the night before.

 

He did it because he KNEW she wouldn't have the guts to speak out.

 

It was a sleazy little manipulation tactic because he's too damned stingy to reciprocate ANY of the multiple generous things Sweeetie has already done for this jerk.

[Lois_Griffin]

I asked him the second question. He told his family that he was going to "visit someone this weekend" to which they asked if it was a girl and he said "maybe"..

Good lord, why are you wasting your time with this child?

[salparadise]

A giver and a taker do not make a good match, especially a blind taker. That's why I am reconsidering things with him.

 

How do you manage to use the word "always" when you're basically talking about one meal? One visit, one meal?

 

 

Well sweetie, unless the taker is female, in which case it's easily overlooked or considered okay under the old rules of entitlement. The fact that you treated first, and then he failed to reciprocate as would be expected even without a promise, or didn't fulfill a promise, is where the problem lies.

 

We have just barely reached the point where equality is the norm even among enlightened people. Even then, divergence is acceptable as long as it benefits the female, but if the male finds himself on the beneficial side of an unequal split, even momentarily, then it sets off the alarm bells. It was undoubtedly a faux pas for him to allow this to occur.

 

It could be easily corrected in the next round if you like him and think that he's otherwise trustworthy and reciprocal (judgement of which could be delayed pending further data), however, under the archaic rules, and as a female at least temporarily on the short side of the split you will have no problem receiving a lot of attagirl support for dumping him post haste and slandering his name mercilessly.

 

It's quite amusing to see how seriously [some] women tout equality, when the reality is it's equal to or greater than (≥). If you had ended up a happy meal ahead on your calculator it would be a non-issue.

 

If you see character deficits, that's one thing... but if it's ≥ I'd say go for a larger perspective and give him a chance to get even... Sweetie (the irony is not lost on me).

[OldRover]

I just read the first page and the last one. Based on the first page and the way he is cheap dump him.

 

 

Based on the last page why have you not dumped him.

 

Obviously, because there's a spark there as the OP said. Also, it's way to early to dump him on this thread alone... it's a minor point at this time.

 

She just needs more time to see how things develop before making a decision.

[Gaeta]

Obviously, because there's a spark there as the OP said. Also, it's way to early to dump him on this thread alone... it's a minor point at this time.

 

She just needs more time to see how things develop before making a decision.

 

Very often sparks aren't mutual and this one isn't.

 

He is unappreciative of the little things she does for him. That speaks volume. Also he keeps her a secret, that's childish. Even if they are not official what's the point of hiding he's visiting her. He spoke outloud about not knowing about this 'relationship' with her.

 

She has a spark alright, he doesn't.

 

When that happens you F the sparks and move to next.

[jen1447]

How do you manage to use the word "always" when you're basically talking about one meal? One visit, one meal?

 

Second paragraph of her OP.

 

My issue is this. He makes a lot of money, more than me, but he hardly ever pays for me. He has not once bought me dinner but I have bought him dinner a couple of times on nice occasions because I like to treat people.

[Versacehottie]

Truth is, he shouldn't have asked. It was a sleazy little manipulation tactic he used to get out of the promise he'd made a mere 24 hours before that HE'D be picking up the bill since she'd paid the entire bill the night before.

 

He did it because he KNEW she wouldn't have the guts to speak out.

 

It was a sleazy little manipulation tactic because he's too damned stingy to reciprocate ANY of the multiple generous things Sweeetie has already done for this jerk.

 

I agree that this was a "test". He kept asking because he knew he did something wrong; yet you let him get away with when paying. When he brought it up after he got away with not paying, he is testing if you are the type to speak up OR if you are a doormat and easy to manipulate. You should have spoken up and called him out on breaking his promise mostly. Actually when guys "get away" with stuff like this they tend to lose interest and give you less and less not more because they subtly got the hint that you really weren't down with the whole not paying thing.

[OldRover]

Very often sparks aren't mutual and this one isn't.

 

He is unappreciative of the little things she does for him. That speaks volume. Also he keeps her a secret, that's childish. Even if they are not official what's the point of hiding he's visiting her. He spoke outloud about not knowing about this 'relationship' with her.

 

She has a spark alright, he doesn't.

 

When that happens you F the sparks and move to next.

 

Well, her first post indicated that he had "something" for her. Just to fly 2 hours to see her says a LOT. He obviously feels something.

 

And all guys are not built the same. Some take time before expressing their feelings. (Heck, I took six months on one, that turned out LT, and the first few dates I spent nothing on her!). He's also had some pressure at work that can really affect one's mood.

 

It's too early to just cut this thing off (if she wants to pursue this guy). Who knows, after a few more dates he may open up a little. It's up to the OP.

 

And there's always a bit of a risk in new dating... you never know where it will go until after some time and dates.

[katiegrl]

I agree that this was a "test". He kept asking because he knew he did something wrong; yet you let him get away with when paying. When he brought it up after he got away with not paying, he is testing if you are the type to speak up OR if you are a doormat and easy to manipulate. You should have spoken up and called him out on breaking his promise mostly.

 

 

***Actually when guys "get away" with stuff like this they tend to lose interest and give you less and less not more because they subtly got the hint that you really weren't down with the whole not paying thing.

 

^^Bingo!!!

 

And to Lois G's comment "He did it because he KNEW she wouldn't have the guts to speak out."

 

And how pray tell, did he KNOW that?

 

Answer: By the OP's own actions, behavior and lack of backbone up to that point.

 

Said this before, but no man wants or respects a pushover, a doormat. Weak and afraid to stand up for herself.

 

I am not defending him. Just saying they both bear responsibility for this mess.

 

We teach people how to treat us!

Edited December 9, 2015 by katiegrl

[No_Go]

I disagree. A person with integrity knows how to treat others, first and foremost keep promises. In this situation his question was an a**holidh move, he promised the night before.

 

I remember a guy telling me "I don't mind to treat you, if you're ok with it". Instantly killed my attraction to him. Treating is ok only if done with desire, not begging, permission etc. If not, I have no problems paying for myself (my passive-aggressive move is paying for the guy too... On the expense of my respect to him).

 

 

 

^^Bingo!!!

 

And to Lois G's comment "He did it because he KNEW she wouldn't have the guts to speak out."

 

And how pray tell, did he KNOW that?

 

Answer: By the OP's own actions, behavior and lack of backbone up to that point.

 

Said this before, but no man wants or respects a pushover, a doormat. Weak and afraid to stand up for herself.

 

I am not defending him. Just saying they both bear responsibility for this mess.

 

We teach people how to treat us!

[Samhain]

Just to add she's pointed out that he was able to use points on the flights so didn't have to pay much for the travel. (Maybe the same amount of $ the OP spent in gas driving him to/from wherever they went during his stay).

 

I know we live in the age of equality, but it really wouldn't sit right with me to ever say to a woman "lets pay half and half", it would make me feel very uncomfortable because, even though it doesn't make someone less of a man to not feel obligated to pay, it would personally make ME feel odd about it.

 

I agree that there's nothing wrong with a woman "treating you" to lunch or dinner when it's a give and take situation. My girl will pay for dinner and there's never anything odd about it because we've been together a few years and it's just natural that sometimes the woman will pay. I still pay the majority of the time, not because it's natural that "men should pay for women" but because it's natural to ME.

 

I don't think the issue here is that society makes men feel obligated to pay for a woman's dinner on dates and that it shouldn't be that way because we're all equal. The issue is that the OP puts in more than she gets back and that her guy is absolutely content with that. That is a stingy outlook. And whether obliged or not it really isn't "manly" to sponge off of another human being, female or otherwise.

 

My mother used to say that the people who have more money than others, keep it that way by being tighter than others! Not true in all (or even most) cases I know, but it is food for thought.

[katiegrl]

 

 

****I disagree. A person with integrity knows how to treat others, first and foremost keep promises.

 

 

I agree, and as I said in my post (at the end, perhaps you didn't read that far?)....I was NOT defending him, not by a long shot! He was definitely wrong.

 

However, if you don't believe she bears some responsibility for not telling him the TRUTH when asked a direct question, and instead lying for fear of *ruining" the night, you are sadly mistaken IMO.

 

And since they've been dating awhile, I suspect this is not the first time she hasn't been honest either....which he can sense. Hence the "test* as shytty as that was.

 

I said they BOTH bear responsibility for their dilemma.

[losangelena]

Well sweetie, unless the taker is female, in which case it's easily overlooked or considered okay under the old rules of entitlement. The fact that you treated first, and then he failed to reciprocate as would be expected even without a promise, or didn't fulfill a promise, is where the problem lies.

 

We have just barely reached the point where equality is the norm even among enlightened people. Even then, divergence is acceptable as long as it benefits the female, but if the male finds himself on the beneficial side of an unequal split, even momentarily, then it sets off the alarm bells. It was undoubtedly a faux pas for him to allow this to occur.

 

It could be easily corrected in the next round if you like him and think that he's otherwise trustworthy and reciprocal (judgement of which could be delayed pending further data), however, under the archaic rules, and as a female at least temporarily on the short side of the split you will have no problem receiving a lot of attagirl support for dumping him post haste and slandering his name mercilessly.

 

It's quite amusing to see how seriously [some] women tout equality, when the reality is it's equal to or greater than (≥). If you had ended up a happy meal ahead on your calculator it would be a non-issue.

 

If you see character deficits, that's one thing... but if it's ≥ I'd say go for a larger perspective and give him a chance to get even... Sweetie (the irony is not lost on me).

 

But she IS seeing character deficits, which to my mind are much more glaring than him not treating her. He wants to split the bill? Fine, but he shouldn't have reneged on his offer to "get the next one," and furthermore to do it in such a way that he ASKS her if it's OK if they split. I don't care what gender you are, that's a lame way to behave.

 

Also, he criticized her after she went and got him breakfast. How about just a genuine "thank you?" Jesus.

[Sweeetie]

 

I don't think the issue here is that society makes men feel obligated to pay for a woman's dinner on dates and that it shouldn't be that way because we're all equal. The issue is that the OP puts in more than she gets back and that her guy is absolutely content with that. That is a stingy outlook. And whether obliged or not it really isn't "manly" to sponge off of another human being, female or otherwise.

 

 

^^This is exactly the point here, for anyone who is thinking that this is some kind of "but the man is supposed to pay" complaint!!

[katiegrl]

^^This is exactly the point here, for anyone who is thinking that this is some kind of "but the man is supposed to pay" complaint!!

 

So you have two choices.

 

Communicate with him about your concerns and feelings about it......OR stop dating him.

 

Because continuing to date him while harboring this underlying resentment and complaining on a message board isn't getting you anywhere even close to a healthy...let alone happy relationship.

 

If it were ME, I would stop dating him FWIW.

 

Your choice though ....good luck.

[Samhain]

It wouldn't do much good to talk to him about it. Even if he started giving equally he would be doing it begrudgingly because this is just the type of person he is. Who pays for dinner won't change the fact that you are on completely different levels.

 

So I guess that only leaves one option..

 

You won't lose anything really, you always pay for your own dinner anyway so you might as well continue doing that while you wait to find somebody who has the same thoughts and values that you do.

[losangelena]

It wouldn't do much good to talk to him about it. Even if he started giving equally he would be doing it begrudgingly because this is just the type of person he is. Who pays for dinner won't change the fact that you are on completely different levels.

 

So I guess that only leaves one option..

 

You won't lose anything really, you always pay for your own dinner anyway so you might as well continue doing that while you wait to find somebody who has the same thoughts and values that you do.

 

I agree. I'm always curious about these threads, like, what does/did OP see in this type of guy to begin with? What was the attraction?

 

That's not really a rhetorical question, by the way—OP, I'm super curious to know, in your mind, what is actually good about this guy?

[pteromom]

If I didn't see much more in him I would be more encouraged to do this, but there are a few things about him that I do really like which make me want to pursue this a little more. I'm just wondering how to bring up this issue since it really is starting to upset me :-/

 

You are thinking backwards. You see some nice things in him, but you see a few things in him that are dealbreakers for you. That's ok. Just because you quit seeing someone doesn't mean he is a bad person.

 

Still - I would talk to him first. Tell him how you are feeling about the whole thing. Perhaps he is a reasonable person who will respond well to what you share. If not, you have lost nothing anyway.

[Versacehottie]

You are thinking backwards. You see some nice things in him, but you see a few things in him that are dealbreakers for you. That's ok. Just because you quit seeing someone doesn't mean he is a bad person.

 

Still - I would talk to him first. Tell him how you are feeling about the whole thing. Perhaps he is a reasonable person who will respond well to what you share. If not, you have lost nothing anyway.

 

I think you should talk to him too--as practice for speaking up and asserting your worth. And then break up with him!!! As Salmain (sp?) said, what adjustment this guy will make it will be begrudgingly. Stingy is a core value, ie not changeable.

[Versacehottie]

If I understood it right, her example of latest bought of stingyness was the weekend in question but that typically they split their dating costs. I think she would even fly to visit him but that's not possible due to his living situation and family.

 

This is not a question of "who should pay" but a question of stinginess and therefore building resentment: how to deal. That's it.

Edited December 9, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
redacted quote of deleted post ~6

[GunslingerRoland]

It strikes me as weird that he's so uncomfortable with buying even a single meal for you. He may be broke or cheap, but it seems to go beyond that.

 

 

Also whether he is using points or money to fly out to see you, don't underestimate how expensive travelling is.

[Versacehottie]

Also whether he is using points or money to fly out to see you, don't underestimate how expensive travelling is.

 

I agree with you about this: that traveling can be more expensive than perhaps is being taken into account. I guess then he has no business being in a long distance relationship then. If he can't be honest about what he can afford and he can't afford to see her under the circumstances as they are and without her footing most of the costs when he does see her and not coming clean about why so she has some choice in the matter, then maybe he shouldn't be doing it. Sounds like another case of stinginess--if he can get away with it, he's going to. Also btw, guys with declining interest and a cheap side, will become more cheap as the interest declines, so maybe that is what is going on?

[jen1447]

I agree. I'm always curious about these threads, like, what does/did OP see in this type of guy to begin with? What was the attraction?

 

That's not really a rhetorical question, by the way—OP, I'm super curious to know, in your mind, what is actually good about this guy?

 

Interesting tangent ....I don't know this guy or speak for OP but poor treatment can be an appeal that 'bad boys' have. Generally that'd be more of a don't-give-a-f*ck attitude tho, not so much laying in bed at night and cuddling that $5 bill you saved at the expense of your girl.

[Robert]

21 deleted off-topic posts later...let's stick to the specific topic of the OP's situation and not generically discuss who should pay for what, etc., etc.

 

Thank you,

~6

 

Edited to add: please see this thread: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/525895-new-consolidated-paying-dates-thread

Edited December 9, 2015 by Robert
added link to consolidated paying-for-dates thread

[Els]

 

Also whether he is using points or money to fly out to see you, don't underestimate how expensive travelling is.

 

Right. I just really can't see how taking a 2-hour flight each way to see someone is seen as 'less investment' than paying for a couple of meals. Honestly. You have to either drive to the airport and park there (expensive!) or take a shuttle (cheaper than a cab or parking, but still expensive). You have to check in ahead of time, wait for boarding. After the two hour flight is over, you have to wait for baggage, then get another shuttle or cab from the airport (unless the OP picked him up, not sure if she did). Aside from the additional costs inherent in air travel, time is money.

 

And points ARE money. If he had not spent his points on this flight he would have been able to save on another flight. The 'points don't count' thing is like saying that just because someone buys you a gift with their credit card points, it doesn't count. Of course it counts because if they hadn't spent the points on you, they could well save $50 on their OWN purchases.

 

I mean, I still think the prognosis for this isn't good at all if the dude is saying he isn't sure if he wants a R, and I don't think she should wait around for him to 'decide'. I think she should leave. But because of that, not because of the couple of meals.