Timeline

[sandylee1]

Krashi

 

I tried to PM you regarding your posts in the OW thread .... but maybe you haven't posted enough to receive them or have disabled them.

 

In order for affairs to go on... The AP blocks out the BS from their thoughts.. to think of them would be admitting they are doing a terrible thing..... they don't really consider the consequences of kids being hurt and their home life destroyed.

 

They often feel they are making life bearable for the WS... because the BS has been branded uncaring, cold, nasty, an abuser and the rest of it.

 

People in affairs compartmentalise.... I'd say the single AP especially is only thinking about themselves and hoping to get the 'prize'

 

A married AP hasn't really got the time to think of the APs spouse... when they are busy trying to cover their behinds themselves. The OBS is pretty much irrelevant.... this is what many WSs have told me.

[Krashi]

How do people become so uncaring of others? These are supposed to be adults,right? But, the thought processes are so primitive."Me want. Me take" etc. Not a care int he world except for how their actions affect themselves. Sad.

[ShatteredLady]

My SIL was a particularly cruel OW. She tortured my brother (only sibling) for a year before he took his own life. My H helped me & my parents while watching us writhe in agony. He cried when he stood in church over my brothers coffin & spoke. Of course HIS affair was 'different'!! My pain is different. Must be or he's not human...or too human...

[merrmeade]

People in affairs compartmentalise.... I'd say the single AP especially is only thinking about themselves and hoping to get the 'prize'

 

A married AP hasn't really got the time to think of the APs spouse... when they are busy trying to cover their behinds themselves. The OBS is pretty much irrelevant.... this is what many WSs have told me.

Okay this is really interesting to me. My favorite infidelity topic maybe: the inner workings of the mind for all characters on the affair stage. One thing I realize now that I've never quite grasped: meaning of that word "compartmentalize." So what does that mean in their pea brains? I realize it's just another defense mechanism like rationalizing, but what do you mean? What are the 'compartments'?

[Cymbeline]

? 'I realize it's just another defense mechanism like rationalizing, but what do you mean? What are the 'compartments'?'

 

This interests me too. I've just seen some old emails between my WH and his younger single ex AP. It's amazing. The children and I don't exist in them and there is not really any reference at all to his very full and busy life with us. She never refers to any part of his life outside the affair either.

 

I've tried to imagine it but the nearest I can get is to compare it to my life as an expat in a number of countries - while living in one, home country is real and existing but rather shadowy. Interestingly, (and maybe encouragingly) when I am in my home country, my current country of residence fades so completely into the background, I forget my telephone number there.

[Krashi]

There is a lot of gibberish associated with the mind of the cheater: cognitive dissonance, Fog, compartmentalization.

What it boils down to is that a certain % of the people that walk among us are disordered, lacking in conscience and empathy. But, they want the same things many of us want, sex, intimacy, a family, security etc. It is just that these types of people are not restrained by a conscience when going after these things.They take what they want and everyone else can be damned.

 

There is a big part of them that feels superior/entitled- the rules do not apply to them, only to the lesser beings, the peasants etc.

 

It really is scary how many of these people are among us.

[ladydesigner]

There is a lot of gibberish associated with the mind of the cheater: cognitive dissonance, Fog, compartmentalization.

What it boils down to is that a certain % of the people that walk among us are disordered, lacking in conscience and empathy. But, they want the same things many of us want, sex, intimacy, a family, security etc. It is just that these types of people are not restrained by a conscience when going after these things.They take what they want and everyone else can be damned.

 

There is a big part of them that feels superior/entitled- the rules do not apply to them, only to the lesser beings, the peasants etc.

 

It really is scary how many of these people are among us.

 

Yes it is. I had no idea my WH was this way until this last A he had. He is a textbook narcissist and does not posses much empathy, although he has A LOT of empathy for himself

 

I wish I would have seen this. If I had seen sign any kind of this lack of empathy there would have been no way I would've M'd him.

[ladydesigner]

Krashi

 

I tried to PM you regarding your posts in the OW thread .... but maybe you haven't posted enough to receive them or have disabled them.

 

In order for affairs to go on... The AP blocks out the BS from their thoughts.. to think of them would be admitting they are doing a terrible thing..... they don't really consider the consequences of kids being hurt and their home life destroyed.

 

They often feel they are making life bearable for the WS... because the BS has been branded uncaring, cold, nasty, an abuser and the rest of it.

 

People in affairs compartmentalise.... I'd say the single AP especially is only thinking about themselves and hoping to get the 'prize'

 

A married AP hasn't really got the time to think of the APs spouse... when they are busy trying to cover their behinds themselves. The OBS is pretty much irrelevant.... this is what many WSs have told me.

 

Spot on post!

[fellini]

This is just more gibberish though. Everything you have written here is just typical oversimplified and generalized workds o f a BS talking about "cheaters".

 

One size fits all.

 

If it were that simple, there would be no need for LS, and certainly hundreds of books would not have been written and we woudn't be throwing around words like fog, compartmentalization and cognitive dissonance.

 

 

 

 

There is a lot of gibberish associated with the mind of the cheater: cognitive dissonance, Fog, compartmentalization.

What it boils down to is that a certain % of the people that walk among us are disordered, lacking in conscience and empathy. But, they want the same things many of us want, sex, intimacy, a family, security etc. It is just that these types of people are not restrained by a conscience when going after these things.They take what they want and everyone else can be damned.

 

There is a big part of them that feels superior/entitled- the rules do not apply to them, only to the lesser beings, the peasants etc.

 

It really is scary how many of these people are among us.

[ladydesigner]

This is just more gibberish though. Everything you have written here is just typical oversimplified and generalized workds o f a BS talking about "cheaters".

 

One size fits all.

 

If it were that simple, there would be no need for LS, and certainly hundreds of books would not have been written and we woudn't be throwing around words like fog, compartmentalization and cognitive dissonance.

 

It's not when you are actually with someone who is personality disordered.

[Krashi]

This is just more gibberish though. Everything you have written here is just typical oversimplified and generalized workds o f a BS talking about "cheaters".

 

One size fits all.

 

If it were that simple, there would be no need for LS, and certainly hundreds of books would not have been written and we woudn't be throwing around words like fog, compartmentalization and cognitive dissonance.

 

Not really. If you read most of the posts 4e cheaters and the effect their abuse has had on their victims, I think it is readily apoarent that they are many standard deviatins from average levels of empathy and way more selfish and entitled than your average person.

Think about it:willingness to expose a spouse to deadly or lifelong STDs ; willingness to cause ptsd in the victim;incredible comfort level with long term lying and deceit with no sign of distress; hurting their kids, needkessly, particularly by incapacitating the abusec parent ( infidelity increases suicide rates in victims, job loss, mental health issues.)

I do not think you have thought this through very well ,fellini. You needto do your homework and start readig about the very real damage these people do to others.

[understand50]

Not really. If you read most of the posts 4e cheaters and the effect their abuse has had on their victims, I think it is readily apoarent that they are many standard deviatins from average levels of empathy and way more selfish and entitled than your average person.

Think about it:willingness to expose a spouse to deadly or lifelong STDs ; willingness to cause ptsd in the victim;incredible comfort level with long term lying and deceit with no sign of distress; hurting their kids, needkessly, particularly by incapacitating the abusec parent ( infidelity increases suicide rates in victims, job loss, mental health issues.)

I do not think you have thought this through very well ,fellini. You needto do your homework and start readig about the very real damage these people do to others.

 

Krashi,

 

Oh, he has. He is just approaching it from his point of view and life experience. Same as me. Look, you can generalize, but in the end each affair is different. No one person fits a mold. There are who walk among us, who just have the morals of a nat, and will try and bed anything. There are other who find themselves in affair, and hate what they are doing and are consumed with guilt. Fellini, reality is his own, with wife and what she did and how she did it is unique, as was your experience with your ex wife.

 

Arguing is pointless, as in the end, we must judge and decide for ourselves, if we stay or go. You may as well try and dry up the sea with a tea towel.

 

Then there is the whole question of redemption. Can a WS make amends and become the trustworthy spouse you wish for? I say yes, and we have examples here on Loveshack. Krashi, I respect your opinion, but respect those on the other side who did and have made reconciliation work. It was not for you, divorce was not for Fellini, or myself or others.

 

My two cents, and as always I wish you luck......

[Krashi]

I agree. Each cheater is different. But, they display a total disregard for their victims. I have no problem if a person wants to reconcile. People can and do change, although it seems rare

[Red123]

I don't think it's as rare as you think it is. Fellini is probably the most read on infedility on this board and always offers pretty sound advice. I am a BS and to be honest I don't feel abused. Every situation is different and I feel my H has completely changed from the man he was during his A over two years ago. I respect your opinion on this matter because you live your truth based on your situation and I live mine. I think you should allow others to live their truth. Ps I am not a victim either. I contributed to the horrible state of my m prior to the A, and I don't feel he victimized me.

[66Charger]

Men are truly becoming a endangered species.

Edited December 8, 2015 by 66Charger

[Krashi]

I don't think it's as rare as you think it is. Fellini is probably the most read on infedility on this board and always offers pretty sound advice. I am a BS and to be honest I don't feel abused. Every situation is different and I feel my H has completely changed from the man he was during his A over two years ago. I respect your opinion on this matter because you live your truth based on your situation and I live mine. I think you should allow others to live their truth. Ps I am not a victim either. I contributed to the horrible state of my m prior to the A, and I don't feel he victimized me.

Thank you. Study I read said 30% survive with 7% of yhat number reporting a happy marriage after infideliy. So, about 2.1% marriages. This was betrayed men reporting.

Michelle Langley, cited by fellini in the thread on good books, reported thzt shd followed up with over one hundred men who stayed. At yhe ,roughly, 2 year mark, when fear and competetive urges has subsided, 100% of the men reported regretting having stayed.

I would venture that it is unlikely fellini has done more reading on this than I have but cannot say for sure. My reading has been pretty exhaustive.

[MuddyFootprints]

Men are truly becoming a endangered species.

 

I was going to post this in response before you edited, then wondered if it was applicable.

 

I'm going to throw it out there anyway. I can't easily find to whom it is attributed, HP is quoting it as unknown.

 

Be careful of your thoughts, for your thoughts become your words. Be careful of your words, for your words become your actions. Be careful of your actions, for your actions become your habits. Be careful of your habits, for your habits become your character. Be careful of your character, for your character becomes your destiny. -- Chinese proverb, author unknown

 

Be Careful of Your Thoughts: They Control Your Destiny | Robert C. Jameson

[DAO]

Krashi,

 

Oh, he has. He is just approaching it from his point of view and life experience. Same as me. Look, you can generalize, but in the end each affair is different. No one person fits a mold. There are who walk among us, who just have the morals of a nat, and will try and bed anything. There are other who find themselves in affair, and hate what they are doing and are consumed with guilt. Fellini, reality is his own, with wife and what she did and how she did it is unique, as was your experience with your ex wife.

 

Arguing is pointless, as in the end, we must judge and decide for ourselves, if we stay or go. You may as well try and dry up the sea with a tea towel.

 

Then there is the whole question of redemption. Can a WS make amends and become the trustworthy spouse you wish for? I say yes, and we have examples here on Loveshack. Krashi, I respect your opinion, but respect those on the other side who did and have made reconciliation work. It was not for you, divorce was not for Fellini, or myself or others.

 

My two cents, and as always I wish you luck......

 

With all due respect,I disagree

Every affair is same,as there is always,at least one victim

If there is a victim,there must be an intention

Actors,actresses,and play might be different,and it is only difference

It is the victim right,to decide,what the consequences are

In addition to above,all Krashi asks for, is to acknowledge the victim,even if it present WS(abuser) in a negative (bad) light

[merrmeade]

Thank you. Study I read said 30% survive with 7% of yhat number reporting a happy marriage after infideliy. So, about 2.1% marriages. This was betrayed men reporting.

Michelle Langley, cited by fellini in the thread on good books, reported thzt shd followed up with over one hundred men who stayed. At yhe ,roughly, 2 year mark, when fear and competetive urges has subsided, 100% of the men reported regretting having stayed.

I would venture that it is unlikely fellini has done more reading on this than I have but cannot say for sure. My reading has been pretty exhaustive.

And what are betrayed women supposed to do with this information?

[MuddyFootprints]

And what are betrayed women supposed to do with this information?

 

Stats only matter if you are gauging your marriage/reconciliation on them.

[Krashi]

And what are betrayed women supposed to do with this information?

 

You will have to ask Michelle Langley, I guess.

I can tell you this,but it is strictly anecdotal. Like many victims (and btw, victim is not a derogatory or pejorative word. It accurately describes a person victimized by another), I was really traumatized by the infidelity. Lost 47lbs in two months( and I was a healthy, in shape weight when this hapoened).sleep disturbances, tears for no reason, etc.

So, I went to a psychologist for help. At one point, I inquired re the likliehood of reconciling, not that I had the option (the disordered, once unmasked, usually flee).

This therapist, very well credentialed told me that a very high %of his practice involved counseling couples touched by infidelity.

He said that, at most he sees about 10%stay together. So,regardless of the cheaters gender, if his samping is representative, the odds are long.

[Krashi]

Stats only matter if you are gauging your marriage/reconciliation on them.

 

Right, the odds seem long,though. So, I would consider them.

[MuddyFootprints]

Sometimes, those outward sources do more damage than good, though. We are all statistics, aren't we?

 

Should we be influenced by stats?

[fellini]

LS is not a book of the month club competition. I posted one line about two volumes of books by Langley neither of which have anything to do with any follow-up study on men for a book which never came to publication. Her books on women's infidility are from not only a large sample but are based on qualitative case studies methods and are not intended to be read like "Not Just Friends" or books by long term marriage councilors.

 

I said I found these books to be helpful. This does not mean I found them to be 100% fact. They are written as a dialogue to pose the kinds of questions about infidelity that people here tend to shut down with unqualified statistics, or over generalisations that it "boils down to all cheaters are just narcissists or over entitled selfish disfunctional psychopaths."

 

This might actually be true for some people, but I expect it is not the general case.

 

 

Man I loathe the use of statistics to make a point when we have our own common sense and language to report what we believe to be true. The only statistic I truly believe is that using statistics will 100% of the time raise questions about the statistic that do not help us to understand the meaning of what they purport to say, but rather, engage us in useless and inpossible debates about the science of statistics.

 

So please, if it isn't too much to ask, do not personalise my posts and twist them around to buffer up an idea that you have about Langley just to make your own. I did not refer to Langley on men, I referred to her work about women, I draw only on her material about Limbo, about mid-late matrimonial infidelity, and about the husband-wife dynamics that she sees DURING infidelity. And about how women can get out of infidelity if they wish.

 

In the end, it is not about HOW much reading you or I or anyone here has done, it is about what we take away from it, and what we are able to communicate about it

 

If all you can do after an exhaustive reading is to make the kind of over generalised and simplistic claims about WS's that you have here, then either your reading has been exhaustive but not broad, or you choose only to report on what you already believe, or you have no interest in the whole picture or the subtleties that infidelity like any other aspect of human behaviour, displays.

 

And once again, I will repeat a line that has emerged in this thread that I started with.

 

Those of us BS's who clearly "run against the grain" here continue to receive snide uncalled for qualifications from other BS's about our

a) not being real men

b) delusional "the things we tell ourselves to live with our decisions to stay with a cheater"

c) exception to the rule "that may have worked for you, but...."

 

NONE of us in this "camp" have ever used those tactics on those BS's who take a hardline approach to infidelity as a concept, or in their lives.

None of us say reconciliation is for everyone, yet there are people in here who insist that reconciliation is for NO ONE.

None of us say you are a coward for divorcing, enough said about the name-calling for those who do not

None of us say you are going to be unhappy in choosing to divorce, yet all we hear is how ANYONE who stays is going to eat a sh-t sandwhich for life.

 

Why is it that we cannot say what we think, what we feel, what we want, and what we have learned without being attacked and insulted and called out.

 

Respect is not a two way street in LS and anyone who thinks otherwise is just more wishful thinking.

 

Thank you. Study I read said 30% survive with 7% of yhat number reporting a happy marriage after infideliy. So, about 2.1% marriages. This was betrayed men reporting.

Michelle Langley, cited by fellini in the thread on good books, reported thzt shd followed up with over one hundred men who stayed. At yhe ,roughly, 2 year mark, when fear and competetive urges has subsided, 100% of the men reported regretting having stayed.

I would venture that it is unlikely fellini has done more reading on this than I have but cannot say for sure. My reading has been pretty exhaustive.

[Furious]

My timeline was very similar to Hero's. Investigation took about 2 weeks, but, once confirmed, my sisters flew out in a couple days, I had informed in laws, spoke to my lawyer, and made the decision. Very, very painful and traumatic. I lost 40 lbs from an in shape body in two months.

But, I moved fast and decisively, knowing I could never get past this and would resent my wife forever. We ha e 3 kids, too. I told them what had happened, as well. No editorializing on it. Just age appropriated factual info.

Is it so rare that one knows right away that this is a dealbreaker? I knew it immediately

 

In your situation you've been decisive and have not made it a gender issue, nor have you condemned those who who choose to reconcile. It's interesting to read the responses you've had,

 

Everyone has their own experience and the line in sand is a personal choice. I can sympathize with those who choose reconciliation and those who choose to divorce.

 

There are betrayed spouses here who are early on from d-day and others who are far along from it. It's a no brainer to be more sensitive to those who are raw and wounded in the early days and months in their experience.

 

I just want to say, continue your healing, and not to get dragged down by unhelpful debate.