First Holiday Season AFTER....

[Joie]

I love the idea of writing 5 things you did for others and 5 you did for yourself. They don't have to be big things but you should try for a few things each day just for you. Even if it od having a cup of coffee and watching the news. (mine )

 

I am new here so if this has already been suggested please ignore but have you and your H looked into the Language of Love? I only ask because I was doing tons of things last year to please my H. Things that would please me in reverse. Making nice meals, brining him a glass of wine, planning a nice holiday. None of that registered with him. Because that is what I need to feel love. Not what he needed. MC is helping us recognize that we need different things to feel love.

[Ladyjane14]

The 'Mummy' advise to just carry on with the kids is striking the strongest cord with me. I know in my head that I can't change another person but in my heart I wish, oh I WISH so many things.

 

If I had the option to take the kids too family I would. I would LOVE to be with family. I was chatting with my 5 year old & she wants to make it a special Christmas for our cats. I can work with that!!

 

I know I'm overwhelmed & I KNOW that I'm not doing what many others would in my situation. I've said many times...I can't make huge life altering decisions at this stage in my life. I mention my health because it does change things. It changes life for everyone close to me. I'm handling each hurdle as it comes along.

 

Just for those who haven't read my other threads... My H had an A 12 years ago with a woman he worked with. It's was a terrible time in my life. Picture what you were doing, thinking 12 years ago?!? It was long before we had kids, before my brother & his mother died. It seemed like a different life until THIS happened. I feel like those long 12 years have been shrunk down to nothing.

 

The A is completely & utterly over. I'm not playing 'pick me'. I want & need peace in my life right now.

 

My H is very passive aggressive & some reading states that only a codependent person would tolerate such behavior long term.

 

I'm one of those people who used 'codependent' in its everyday sense. I used to say the silly romantic "I take care of you & put you first & you take care of me & put me first so we are both first AND both taken very good care of!".

I've researched the term & psychologically there's a lot more to it than being very dependent on someone. I don't fit the true definition.

 

I'm situationally very depressed & apparently have PTSD (I find that embarrassing considering what most PTSD sufferers have lived through!). I'm taking medications for anxiety. I'm limited to what I can (& want) to take given my other meds, procedures & surgeries. I am doing my best to take care of myself.

 

Forums are anonymous & the written word can be limiting. I know members only see the sides of me that are discussed in threads. I'm used to using forums to vent, share & support. By their nature chronic pain forums are about the long-term. Sometimes I feel like LS type forums want members to post their issue, get their advise & move on through...I'm not sure that's what I need.

 

I find myself going against the grain... seems to happen alot lately.

But if what you're looking for is reconciliation, I think the most important filter to run each interaction through is, "am I behaving in a way that's punishing?"

 

We all want our pound of flesh when somebody hurts us; that's just natural. Reconciliation after this kind of betrayal feels unnatural in so many ways. Chiefly, I think, because we can't punish that person and still get what we want from him. When what we want is a re-commitment to love and intimacy, we can't get that by indulging our anger. (And let's face it, there just isn't any legal/moral punishment that really fits the crime.)

 

The anger is so huge though, the ego so bruised. We end up feeling like a doormat somebody has carelessly wiped their feet on. And every instinct says FIGHT BACK. But fighting back doesn't get us what we want when what we want is to recover the relationship. It only gets us a fight.

 

It's up to you to decide if your husband is a waste of your time. No one here can tell you that. Time is a precious thing though. There's that to consider too. You could win the lottery tomorrow and never buy back another minute of your life.

 

In the long term, yeah it's a process, and we can flirt a bit at the edges of making a decision whether we're all-in or all-out for quite a while. At some point though, the choice has to be made... because THAT's where most of the angst comes from. It's when you're still not sure, when one foot's still out the door that you suffer the most.

 

In the interim though.. try the "am I punishing?" filter for awhile; see if it clears up some of the indecision around your holiday choices. If you end up "all-in", you'll be glad you followed your better angels. And if you end up "all-out"... there will be plenty of time for punishing later on down the pike.

[ShatteredLady]

The 'love languages' we're all over the place for us & pretty similar. I don't think they would be normally...know what I mean? The crazy went on for so long that it changed what both of us put priority on.

 

I have started journaling again & like the "5 Little Things" idea

 

One of the things that's 'really doing my head in' is the lack of punishment (for want of a better phrase) I am deeply angry but I'm also just so hurt & disappointed. There's also this veil of surrealism covering it all. It physically hurts!

 

He's not just some guy who did a crappy thing. He's my person. My love. He's so depressed & so stressed & so broken. How can I kick him when he's down? I can't be mean. I can't punish him....but where does that leave me? Then I feel guilty & vindictive for thinking this way, "It should be about ME!!! Yes! I feel sorry for him but shouldn't we be feeling MORE sorry for ME?!?".

 

I don't know.

 

I'm haunted by sentences. Words written & words said. Writing to a friend after mothers day he said of his A 12 years ago, "I sacrificed love & received nothing but scorn!". I was PATHETIC the first time. I was so broken & abused. Still question his sanity (his behavior was so alien!). BUT after he split with her I let it go!! Complete agonizing rug sweep. It was SO VERY hard for me NOT to punish him AND he says "Scorn"!!!!! NEVER!!

 

....but I KNOW those of you who say "Don't take seriously things said during the A" are completely right & even my H says that! He has asked, "Did I REALLY say that?". He frequently said that these things weren't true. Ugh!!! I don't know!!! He also wrote (in the same letter) "I have a toxic gob (mouth) I say these things, which while true are too cruel to say out loud!" ugh!!!

 

I don't know the truth!!

 

I have to make decisions which will effect the lives of EVERYONE I love & hold dear & I don't know what's going on!

 

He's always been depressed & grumpy. Usually self-deprecating. I've taken care of him because I had this faith that he loved me, truly loved me. If he was passive aggressive I took it, managed it, because I knew 'It was just him'. Now I don't know if he's giving me the silent treatment & when he talks he's going to say "I can't do this anymore. I want a divorce!".

 

On I don't know! I want to scream so hard the earth shakes.

 

Maybe Pink Floyd are right "Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way". We now feel like "Two lost souls swimming round a fish bowl year after year".

 

Despite it all I still have this faith, deep inside, that we can get back to us & US was great. Even my H started all of this with a post titled "My former magic life".

 

The only times he's ever taken antidepressants in his life are 12 years ago & last year starting 6 weeks before he wrote to her.... Am I just making excuses? Ugh!

 

I shouldn't write this early! I'm all over the place!!

[ShatteredLady]

AFoolTo... I'm so sorry to hear that you suffer with your spine. Did you have a fusion? How many levels? All spine surgery is brutal. I'm so sorry....& just before Christmas?? Ugh!!! Horrible!

 

A complete fusion would now be the 'emergency solution' if it progresses to CES. I have permanent nerve damage S1 nerve root. I think I've seen most spinal surgeons (exaggeration) & specialist hospitals & there's not a lot more that they're willing to do while I'm still mobile. Thankfully I have a good team of specialists & I've found my path through my chronic pain journey. The one thing I do have sorted!!! It does slow me but doesn't restrict me if you know what I mean?

 

So far my 'other' surgery seems to of gone very, very well. The surgeon was surprised & very optimistic that she got most of the 'bad cells'. It's not all doom & gloom. I have some pretty HUGE things to be thankful for. Thank you for reminding me!! I don't just have 5 'little' things for my list!

[ShatteredLady]

LadyJane.

 

I don't know. Sometimes I think I need to find my fight & not care if it's perceived as punishment. The silence is torture & my kindness feels like degradation sometimes.

 

My H has been very supportive, thoughtful & kind through my surgery & a lot of the time. He's incredibly stressed & overwhelmed & depressed.

The last couple of weeks have been so hard for me. I've had the silent treatment & a crystal clear example of his passive aggressive crap. They hit so hard! My brain was screaming "This isn't fair! This isn't right!".

 

I know I can't expect him to suddenly become a spotless leopard but with everything he's put me through? Everything I'm going through? Sometimes it feels like self indulgent behavior.

 

I was just turned 21 when we met. I'm aware that I have nurtured his character because we have been together through so many of our formative years.

 

Ugh! My brain hurts but nothing compared to my heart. I feel terminally sad

[afoolto no end]

SL,

 

When I listen to your words about your life it is so close to what I had, I could have written it myself......

A little background history, I have an immune deficiency disease which has affected a lot of my system, I have lost my hair I have had 13 different surgeries in the last 5 years, my spine being the last one.........I have 4 separate discs that are affected, pinching the cord so badly I couldn't walk more than 5 minutes at a time without my legs falling asleep.......all lower ......surgery for your back is never a good time .....my husband was home with me for the first two weeks it was easier that way for me........it has helped me tremendously....the took out disc material and fused my bones back together with screws and bolts...

My husband also had his affair during that time, and believe me going through what I have and him taking care of her instead of me is unforgivable....but I have accepted this is what he chose for his life and he will have to deal with all that is now.........I have grown sons as well that have lost some respect for him as well and that has hurt him as well........so waywards also have a lot of hurt and pain and loss to deal with as well.......

I used to seth with anger and feel hurt by all of his choices but I got to the point of just living my life and being happy being me.......the rest is his problem..I chose to work things out because of the bigger picture....his remorse, sadness, our family and it's been 30 years for us......there is a lot of good along with that bad that you have to consider.....

When I chose to stay and re-work the marriage and to rebuild a life for us I was committed to doing that and even if there were days I felt sad or disappointed myself I did what I felt was best for the bigger picture....I know there are no guarantees but if you stay what is the point if you don't give it your all....

It isn't fair I felt that way for a long time that the two of them got away with what they did.......but did they really, look who they had to be to get away with it...

I would rather be me doing what is right.........

You can't go on being angry and you can't worry about him. you do what is right for you, your kids and love your husband for who he is.......if he doesn't ever get on board they you can decide then to leave or change your life........

If he choses to wallow over his fantasy life there is nothing you can do......

Finding that out will take time and giving it a 110% chance is the only way you will know if this is worth saving or not.......

I think all BS's at some points in the recovery also ask themselves if they made the right choice to stay ....you have to look at the bigger picture......you do what is right and first and foremost look after what you can do for your health ..

Your in charge of that, the way I look at it if it can be fixed to help my quality of life I'm doing it..............this is my new life attitude now with everything health and marriage. I am in control.........

[Winterina]

Hi S. Lady,

 

You are not alone in it all. Plenty of people struggle during holiday seasons. Do not make any extra effort for his birthday. He is a grown man, and if he had prior attitude towards your gifts as being meaningless then f him. Not worth the effort. Read the book (highly recommend it to you!!!) Codependent No More. It will show you how to take care of yourself and stop taking care of him and his needs.

 

I'm too alone this holiday season for the first time. He is gone to the US to see his family. We just moved to the new country (UK). I cannot go see my mom or take a trip anywhere because there is nobody to look after my kitty.

So it is just me and the silence, no friends, nobody to talk to...

[ShatteredLady]

Winterina. Thank you so much. Wow! Moving to the UK is a HUGE step. I know going the other way UK-USA was so much more or a shift than I ever anticipated. How long will you be staying for? Maybe we will cross-over when we move back next spring/summer. We're a LOT friendlier than stereotyped!

 

Please, PLEASE don't isolate yourself. When I first got here I did everything & more to establish a social life for us. Will you be working? Even a very part-time thing could be worth it to meet people. Sorry, you probably already have yourself sorted.

 

I have 3 cats. My kids adopted 2 rescue kittens (a friend was fostering cats for a society) a couple of years ago. I joke that they're Velcro cats. One sticks to my son & one plays with my daughter, my baby is obsessed with cats.

[Winterina]

Winterina. Thank you so much. Wow! Moving to the UK is a HUGE step. I know going the other way UK-USA was so much more or a shift than I ever anticipated. How long will you be staying for? Maybe we will cross-over when we move back next spring/summer. We're a LOT friendlier than stereotyped!

 

Please, PLEASE don't isolate yourself. When I first got here I did everything & more to establish a social life for us. Will you be working? Even a very part-time thing could be worth it to meet people. Sorry, you probably already have yourself sorted.

 

I have 3 cats. My kids adopted 2 rescue kittens (a friend was fostering cats for a society) a couple of years ago. I joke that they're Velcro cats. One sticks to my son & one plays with my daughter, my baby is obsessed with cats.

 

Thanks. Take care of yourself for your kids and cats.

I am in the city of the Beatles, moved for the job offer I had. Maybe our paths will cross... Let me know when in the UK. Hugs!

[ShatteredLady]

We have a close friend in Beatles land!!! I know the chances of the England lady members actually meeting-up is pretty slim but I'm having a melt down! Can we pretend it's going to happen so I have something exciting to fantasize about?

 

I think the whole shock & horror of my new reality has thrown me into my own midlife crisis. I don't know what the true psychological meaning of that is. I consider it taking stock of your life, everything that has been achieved to date & having a sudden crisis.

 

How was I so blind to the truth? If you asked me last year I'd say my life was pretty good!

When I was young (up to late 20's) I considered success to be financial. Career, home, lifestyle. Having children changed me so much.

Funny to think I used to picture myself a power career woman who would adopt children & go it alone.

I didn't think I'd ever get married...don't know why. My parents have a REALLY good marriage & I've said I don't think they would of survived some of the things that life has thrown at them if they didn't have each-other!

 

My friend asked a REALLY good question when this all started. (I didn't know about the A. Just believed my H had 'given-up' because I was sick & no fun!). She asked me why my self image was so dependent on my H's view of me. We had travelled to California to stay with her family the summer before. I'd met her extended family & friends & spent quite a lot of time with them. She said they all adored me!

 

She told me how she saw me, how her friends & family would describe me. I used to be strong & confident. They thought I was this lovely person. They've continued to try to convince me to move there to be with them. Why would anyone want to be with me? Ugh! She's so right! Ugh! I'm just overwhelmed by it all. I HATE the present but the future terrifies me.

 

It's a unique thing to live on a different continent than lifetime friends & family. They see you as stuck in a time warp. They don't see life changing you. I talk & message them now & they are describing a stranger when they talk about me! I've lost myself but was so blind I never noticed it happening to me. I've been carved into a new person, chip by chip. They won't know me when I return home....or maybe I will find myself being ME again....S**t I used to love myself. How the mighty crumble

 

I'm just venting, having my own pity party. If you have contempt for me you don't need to share it...I know!!

 

It's 6pm. My H will be home in about an hour. What will my life be? I walk on egg shells. Will he walk through the door, hug me, kiss me?? Will I get the silent treatment & spend the night trying to figure out what I've done wrong? The anxiety it building....

 

It's been a good day. Playing & painting, making Christmas decorations with my kids. Kids are so easy. When they're mad they scream & cry. They snuggle, run-up & hug you when they want a cuddle. You know where you stand with kids. Children are honest

 

This is one of those biodegradable posts. I'm just lonely. Just journaling to find some calm & sanity. It makes me feel a little better when people chat back. I know that's considered lame by some, self indulgent....

[whichwayisup]

Keep writing out your thoughts and feeling since it helps make you feel less anxious.

 

You are not responsible for your husband's mood swings!!

[66Charger]

As a curiosity, do you and your H do anything together outsude of raising children? A hobby? If not, perhaps you should consider something. Years ago, I accidently started restoring old furniture . I purchased a nice old chair and my woman at the time decided she didn't like the finish so we stripped it, sanded and refinished it. It turned out amazing. . It was inexpensive, but time consuming and a great thing to work on together. Men like doing those kind of things and women are creative. You guys could spend hours in the garage, dremels humming, music playing a sip or two enjoyed. The way that men are if you started this, he would come in and have to stick his nose into it, and off you go.

 

Just a thought.

[ShatteredLady]

Thank you Charger. I do think that you are really onto something. My H works & we raise kids. We've been trying to fit in date night more. We NEED something!

 

I've done EXACTLY what you did!! Finishing my last armoire (it's taken WAY too long) & then I'm done because of my back. The pain isn't worth the reward anymore. I loved it though! My H never got involved. It's not his thing. I've got some loved treasures around the house. LOVED it! Even thought of making it an income but my docs would loose their minds!!! It's everything I shouldn't be doing with my condition

 

My H flies remote control helicopters & I've filmed them flying. To be honest he's in his own world doing it & standing in a field isn't the best past time with severe spine issues.

 

Don't worry, I'm not going to cry "Spine" at every suggestion. Obviously if he wanted to mountain climb I couldn't. I'm happy, HAPPY to endure the additional pain for a few hours entertainment. I'll still go watch him fly & make it what I can but that's me playing with the kids in the car (it's dangerous. We get out between battery packs then get back in) he's absorbed.

 

My daughter is 5 now. I know things are already better for me with her independence but with a young family we are limited...no, restricted..you know what I mean?!?

 

I have my hobbies, arts, crafts, making jewelry & 'stuff'. Nothing we could share though. It's a hobby I can do with the kids as much as anything. I make garden ornaments (can you tell I search for a 'cottage industry' to support myself?) but he's not a concrete kind of guy either.

 

Hy H is a geek. He would be happier staring at a computer screen than most things. We're going to start painting, preparing the house to sell. That's been together time in the distant past. He's not an outside guy really. We've lived in this house for 4 years & he could probably count his times outside on his fingers. He will help me dig etc in the garden because I can't but he hates gardening really...I just like the end result to be honest!

 

My friend bought me one of those huge, complex, build from scratch dolls houses. I'm hoping that the electrics & things will amuse him. You reminded me! We haven't spoken about that since "It" was going on & he wasn't even completely negative about it then. He loves taking his helicopters apart & putting them back together maybe he could like that??

 

I really pushed & encouraged the helicopter thing (a friend gave him his first) because he likes all aspects of it & honestly I thought it was a Daddy & me thing to do with our son...I didn't know they're big, expensive & dangerous. Last birthday I bought him a cheap fun one to fly with my son (my son chose it) but that was one of the "crap, thoughtless" things.

 

We used to go on family nature walks but that made him angry & he started running on his own. I HATE my spine!! It does limit what I can do but even if we could run together we would have to pay someone to watch the kids.

 

Ugh! I sound so negative but I'm really not!

[66Charger]

Actually, its your H that sounds negative. I am not a geek so I have no other suggestions, however working together and accomplishing a project can be very bonding and rewarding.

 

Hats off to you on the Armoire. I looked at a few, but they were way too much work. Bet it looked amazing.

[Winterina]

Reading about your mental and emotional changes through life, and turning from fun and confident woman into someone with low self-esteem and preoccupied with one guy out of millions in the world... it is like reading my own life. Including moving from country to country.

 

Write more here if it helps you. Skype me if you want, I think you have my address.

All the best!

[ShatteredLady]

I bought a really cheap drop-leaf table from Craig's List $10. Sanded it back to its natural wood & limed it!! It's lovely. I also managed to get a very old sewing machine armoire for $5. After I gutted it, sanded it & refinished it looks great in our craft room storing all the kids arty stuff. I LOVE playing with old solid wood furniture. It's so cheap because it looks like used-up trash but I like imagining all the life it's seen & giving it a new start.

 

I like old vintage things. I met a pastor who buys old decrepit houses & mends them for homeless families. I refinished some furniture for him. I wanted to make a home job of refinishing furniture but my back just can't take it. It's a very fulfilling thing to do in many ways, hint, hint...if anyone out there likes the idea!!

 

I've never done upholstery!!! That's so brave!

 

 

I agree that a shared project would be great for any couple. I'm just finding it hard to think of something & I don't have a lot of motivation at the moment. I need to pull my finger out & get on with life.

 

It seemed like such a good, logical idea to become a SAHM. I'll never regret dedicating my time to raising my babies but it's beyond terrifying to be blindsided & suddenly realize that I've lost the ability to support myself & my kids in the way I'd like. It now seems so rediculous to say "I never thought of the vulnerable position I put myself in!" but honestly it NEVER crossed my mind. Ugh!!