I lost the meaning of happiness. Share what it means for you to be happy.

[Popsicle]

Yes true too. Often it's complex and we can say it and it's clear but the how is the key ☺️. As for leaving my M. The Ow exhausted her reasoning to convince me. I just don't see a reason to. She said: you need passion in your life and who you are excited to be with. I didn't disagree, just life is more then just about that person. When you have a long marriage, you can't expect that kind of things. Love runs deeper than passion and excitement. My wife will change my diapers one day and I will do hers. That's how I see things. I told her, besides I have lots of interest on the side and I'm fine even if I'm alone. Life is not just about relationship.

 

Thanks. I always appreciate your reply.

 

Not sure why you bring up the OW trying to convince you to leave. My first reply was in response to your question about how to find happiness. That is still my answer.

 

I do wonder though, if love is so deep, then why are you questioning if you're happy?

 

And if you and your wife will be changing each other diapers, then you won't be alone.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Popsicle

[redtail]

Your search will make you unhappy. Many people have good advise here, things you could do to improve your situation. Because if you keep doing the same things, chances are good you'll keep getting the same results.

 

"Happiness isn't something you experience, it's something you remember." - Oscar Levant —

[Popsicle]

For someone like her, her first and only man....

 

Really? You were her first and only man?

[Dylon]

Seriously? Do men really think like this? How? I mean... because you know you can't have her, you never wanted her or wanted to be with her? How does that work?

 

Excuse me. Maybe it's not worded properly. Wanting/wishing/dreaming is not the same as having the will or plan to. Because I'm not in the position that I can be with her. Also, I never met her so "wanting" to be with her is a bit much.

 

Did you WANT to meet her? Or were you just using logic?

 

Yes logic. I know meeting her would be a disaster.

 

1) Did you feel this way BEFORE you met and broke up with OW? Or were you happy before?

 

Yes I did before too. There was a gap of 1.5 year of friendship with her so it's a different kind of feeling now.

 

Are you less happy now? Because maybe it's due to raising of the bar. You know - your level of happiness went up when you were with OW, and now you're back at the old baseline but it no longer works for you.

 

Time will tell if this is true. Maybe. I need to get over this emotional state first.

 

2) Did you ever think that maybe you just aren't married to the right person, and it's as simple as that?

 

Over a decade of peacefulness. She's perfect on paper: beautiful, hardworking, caring, good mother, friendly. We rarely argue. We agree on most things. I even feel guilty talking less of her in any manner. I have more flaws than her. I can't answer your question. It just seems I should feel lucky to have her. I figure I'm more capable with her than most couples are compatible with each other. More with her than the OW I met for sure. Like she was a missing piece of a puzzle but my wife has all the other pieces.

 

 

Waking up with someone, going to bed with them, sharing dreams? We are social creatures. We crave love and touch and intimacy. So yes, it's essential. For most people, anyway.

 

I agree. I think I just try to convince myself that I can do it alone ? Thanks for your view. I know you are trying to dissect me. That's fine .

[Dylon]

Really? You were her first and only man?

 

Yes really . I will make sure my daughter have experiences before she weds.

[Dylon]

Your search will make you unhappy.

 

I'm not sure I'm searching. I just want to realize and appreciate and open my eyes. I hope that's good enough. I'm not asking for more. I have everything it seems. I just like to hear people's opinions.

[Popsicle]

Yes really . I will make sure my daughter have experiences before she weds.

 

With SINGLE men. MM will just take advantage of her being naive and unaware and have nothing to offer her.

[HopeForTomorrow]

Over a decade of peacefulness. She's perfect on paper: beautiful, hardworking, caring, good mother, friendly. We rarely argue. We agree on most things. I even feel guilty talking less of her in any manner. I have more flaws than her. I can't answer your question. It just seems I should feel lucky to have her.

 

But you don't feel the way you think you should - lucky to have her. Something to explore for sure.

 

But I will tell you one thing - there is a hell of a lot to say for peacefulness with someone.

 

Thanks for your view. I know you are trying to dissect me. That's fine .

 

Honestly. Not trying to dissect you.

 

Thanks for the responses. It's the holiday season. I don't know about you, but it's magical for me. Focus on that. Focus on joy. Hope, and kindness to others. That's what I do this time of year. Today I feel better and happier than I have in ages. Moving Forward. I hope you can too

[Dylon]

Yes...those damn neurochemicals in our brain that control everything ! Phenylethylamine, norepinephrine, dopamine, oxytocin, serotonin, endorphins....a combination, balance. How to release some and get rid of others. You either use drugs to change the balance, or find other meanings, self help, therapy, ect. to accomplish it. The chemicals that make you fall intensely in love are responsible of heartbreak when those chemicals are absence. Everyone knows that feeling/chemical can't be maintained in that high state indefinitely, and soon or later it resides back to a lower state....such as long term marriage or having anything for a long period of time. If something that was exciting and made you happy at first, given enough time, those chemicals that gave you the wonderful high will come back down to a lower state. Our sense of happiness, depression, love are just balance of chemicals. In that thought, it seems such a challenge with only internal stimuli to trigger the release of those good feeling chemicals. Talking yourself out of a state is a challenge no matter how logical and reasonable one is in assessing the situation. I read a lot and it's rare someone will say something that I haven't heard before but it's different when someone else says the same thing. It's an external stimulus, more effective to triggering a response.

 

I'm tired of being arrogant in my attitude that I can fix and control how I feel by changing myself with self reasoning. Looking at the chemicals as reasons for certain feelings, if I can change the balance of them just by will, isn't that a superpower? I think the solution is to change the stimuli around me, the more, the better. Who knows, a different set of chemical balance created by a drastic change in the external environment could well give something new.

 

I don't know. Reading about so many problems, heartbreaks and sadness make me think that maybe people need to step back from the emotions, focus less on how they feel, but more on how to change the external environment. Doesn't take away the hurt of people, but maybe viewing ourselves as simple chemicals being and to change the balance by manipulating the external environment provides a hope, and that thought maybe in itself is the first stimulus we need to move forward.

 

Thoughts?

Edited November 19, 2015 by Dylon

[HopeForTomorrow]

Yes...those damn neurochemicals in our brain that control everything ! Phenylethylamine, norepinephrine, dopamine, oxytocin, serotonin, endorphins....a combination, balance. How to release some and get rid of others. You either use drugs to change the balance, or find other meanings, self help, therapy, ect. to accomplish it.

 

I like the way you think. (Probably because it's the same way I think )

 

Using drugs to change the balance shifts things around and can help with depression, obviously. But many of them inhibit reuptake or more than one neurotransmitter and we don't necessarily know exactly what that means when we prescribe them. Even with the basic SSRIs this is true. Same with other self-help things that increase serotonin, dopamine (exercise, etc). So we have some control of it, but ultimately, how to get the balance right is key. And it's depressing in a way to think of ourselves and our happiness, depression, or whatever as simply an internal balance of chemicals, don't you think?

 

The chemicals that make you fall intensely in love are responsible of heartbreak when those chemicals are absence. Everyone knows that feeling/chemical can't be maintained in that high state indefinitely, and soon or later it resides back to a lower state....such as long term marriage or having anything for a long period of time. If something that was exciting and made you happy at first, given enough time, those chemicals that gave you the wonderful high will come back down to a lower state. Our sense of happiness, depression, love are just balance of chemicals.

 

When you thought about OW, the dopamine centers of your brain flooded and you were rewarded with those intense high feelings of infatuation. Plus you were attached to her on an intellectual level I'm sure. So you wonder how much of that was just feel-good chemicals and how much was filling an empty space/need that you may have. Those chemicals would have come back down to lower levels at some point and then how would you have felt about her? You won't ever (probably) be in a position to know, which I think is frustrating in and of itself.

 

I'm tired of being arrogant in my attitude that I can fix and control how I feel by changing myself with self reasoning. Looking at the chemicals as reasons for certain feelings, if I can change the balance of them just by will, isn't that a superpower? I think the solution is to change the stimuli around me, the more, the better. Who knows, a different set of chemical balance created by a drastic change in the external environment could well give something new.

 

I don't know. Reading about so many problems, heartbreaks and sadness make me think that maybe people need to step back from the emotions, focus less on how they feel, but more on how to change the external environment. Doesn't take away the hurt of people, but maybe viewing ourselves as simple chemicals being and to change the balance by manipulating the external environment provides a hope, and that thought maybe in itself is the first stimulus we need to move forward.

 

Yes! Yes, yes, I have been thinking about the same thing, although I haven't quite put it in the same words as you just did.

 

I'm not sure exactly what external environment to change though (I have some good ideas) and I'm not sure exactly how to go about it. And I'm not sure what/how much difference it will make. But I think you are onto something.

[burnt]

I think the solution is to change the stimuli around me, the more, the better. Who knows, a different set of chemical balance created by a drastic change in the external environment could well give something new.

 

Hi Dylon,

Very interesting post. I liked reading it. I have been following your entire thread, but haven't posted til now.

I agree with the beginning part of your last post, but disagree with your conclusions.

 

Like you, I suppose, I have been desperately looking for 'answers' or some sign of 'insights'. In my case, though, this 'seraching' has been there for pretty much my whole life, not just recently involving the affair. Due to my long history of 'existential' depression and having trouble with religion/faith, I seem to be never fully satisfied with any answer I find, and therefore keep living with that 'seeking' mindset.

 

It's wonderful in a way, because I discover beautiful things along the way: ideas, philosophies, art, music, literature--it's a joyful thing to find new things. But it's also a frustrating to wander in this directionless road I'm on, especially since I find myself lonely and unable to share these ideas and frustrations with anyone.

 

I have found myself more and more looking into Buddhism, mindfulness, Zen, etc. One of the main ideas I keep seeing is the idea of 'letting it go' and 'letting it be'. That is, letting go of the past 'attachments' and letting go of future 'fears' and learning to letting it be in the present and living in the moment. In all of these, the major idea seems to be to learn to let go of our expectations of how things 'ought to be', and our learned desire to control or change things to fit into what we want.

 

So, that's where I disagree with you. By trying to to control the external and by trying to change the surroundings, you may get temporary happiness, but all that is done is creating more permanent mental restraints. In other words, the more you set expectations for yourself, the more you set yourself up for future disapointments, and the more you stop being in the present. So, happiness will come, when you stop trying to find happiness--paradoxically.

 

I'm still reading about these ideas, but haven't been able to get anywhere close to actualizing them. Maybe someday.

 

I must say though, as much pain I am in, as lost and broken I feel, there are moments of appreciation for where I am now; I am not trying to romanticize my suffering, but trying to say that I have now a very deep and genuine sense of appreciation and gratitude for the few fleeting unexpected moments of joy I can find here and there. For example, just an hour ago I found and enjoyed this: (probably the only good thing today)

These remarkable 'flowers' mimic butterflies : TreeHugger

 

I don't know. Reading about so many problems, heartbreaks and sadness make me think that maybe people need to step back from the emotions, focus less on how they feel, but more on how to change the external environment. Doesn't take away the hurt of people, but maybe viewing ourselves as simple chemicals being and to change the balance by manipulating the external environment provides a hope, and that thought maybe in itself is the first stimulus we need to move forward.

 

Stay with those emotions. Listen to the 'pain'. Emotions and pains are responses our own body is producing to let us know 'something's wrong' and 'something's need to be addressed. If you try to mute that too early, you actually end up missing out on the warning sign. It's like a painful scab that's forming on the wound--allow it--it's a necessary part of the healing process.

 

Think of it as this: you find a burning sensation in your knee; instead of taking pain-killers right away to mute it out, maybe listen to it, examine it, and realize that maybe it's an early sign of something much more serious going on.

 

So Ironically, you must agree, that you yourself have come to all these questioning, searching, and self examinations lately because of the emotional pain you've been on.

 

Would I be wrong to say that I believe it's because of the pain and the hard emotions you have been going through that you are now a more compassionate and mindful person about other's sufferings?

[HopeForTomorrow]

Hi burnt, I hope it is okay for me to insert myself in here. I really liked your post (all your posts, actually), and I look forward to reading your story if/when you ever feel like posting it.

 

I have found myself more and more looking into Buddhism, mindfulness, Zen, etc. One of the main ideas I keep seeing is the idea of 'letting it go' and 'letting it be'.

 

I admire you for being able to think this way. Being scientifically/medically trained, I tend to veer far away from those concepts because they are so touchy-feely. I want to believe in things that I can see, add and subtract, or plot on a graph. That's why I have such an issue with religion.

 

In my undergraduate days I signed up for a class in philosophy and the prof spent the entire first lecture trying to convince us that the chair in the middle of the lecture hall really didn't exist. It was just a 'concept' of a chair. I dropped the class the next day... see ya... not for me.

 

I think the 'letting it go' idea is very worthwhile though and I for one am going to think about that.

 

So, that's where I disagree with you. By trying to to control the external and by trying to change the surroundings, you may get temporary happiness, but all that is done is creating more permanent mental restraints. In other words, the more you set expectations for yourself, the more you set yourself up for future disapointments, and the more you stop being in the present. So, happiness will come, when you stop trying to find happiness--paradoxically.

 

This is what I struggle with in your post. How does setting expectations for yourself set you up for future disappointments? I understand the concept of being in the present, but surely, setting expectations for positive things in the future is not analogous with ending up with negative things eventually?

 

Sorry if I'm missing your point.

 

taking pain-killers right away to mute it out, maybe listen to it, examine it, and realize that maybe it's an early sign of something much more serious going on.

 

We use that analogy in medicine. That blunting pain may be causing us to miss the true etiology of the pain. And treating fever may be causing us not to recognize persistent infection. Etc...

[waterwoman]

If I understand burnt correctly (apologies if I get it wrong) she means that expectations are the problem rather than aspirations. There are going to he plans you make that don't come to fruition and if you are prone to disatisfaction that could be a blow that will set you back. I have self-medicated with plans and projects all my life to keep the depression and panic at bay. It doesn't work. It's like building a castle out of sand because sooner or later the castle will fail and that will be a disaster. I try very hard to let go of the future these days (apart from the obvious essentials) and enjoy now. What will come will come.

[Dylon]

Very good discussion.

 

Using drugs to change the balance shifts things around and can help with depression, obviously. But many of them inhibit reuptake or more than one neurotransmitter and we don't necessarily know exactly what that means when we prescribe them.

 

Yes, it sort of a quick fix and the consequences are difficult to phantom. I find myself drinking a bit of alcohol (I don't drink), and numb the senses a bit. The rush of the blood does seem to drown the senses. Then over time, I found that I became more and more tolerate of the intake and how much. I suppose any form of medication and drugs in due time will hurt you in this sense.

 

When you thought about OW, the dopamine centers of your brain flooded and you were rewarded with those intense high feelings of infatuation. Plus you were attached to her on an intellectual level I'm sure. So you wonder how much of that was just feel-good chemicals and how much was filling an empty space/need that you may have. Those chemicals would have come back down to lower levels at some point and then how would you have felt about her? You won't ever (probably) be in a position to know, which I think is frustrating in and of itself.

That's a good point. Perhaps we are dealing with two different effects. One is the need to deal with the absence of once an over flood of the good feelings, the feel good neurochemicals. The addiction of having them on high levels. The affect of true love, that intellectual level of connection, or feel safe and secure with someone is a more stable balance that is more maybe a true state of mind rather than just rush of neurochemicals. The latter effect stays and lasts longer. Under such condition, we are more grounded in our thinking. I assume most people on this forum with problems are probably not at this state, including me.

 

 

I'm not sure exactly what external environment to change though (I have some good ideas) and I'm not sure exactly how to go about it. And I'm not sure what/how much difference it will make. But I think you are onto something.

It would make sense to be surprised. Change everything without knowing the effects. Take for example how we often advised to do certain things for distraction. If we know the outcome and the purpose, I don't find that to be very effective. While talking to a friend knowing that you are trying to forget someone isn't effective. So are other activities are that only coming from your self generating stimuli. Now what if that friend suddenly said my mother just died. That's an unexpected stimulus that triggers a change in your neurochemicals. If I go out for a walk knowing the purpose is to forget that addiction, it only works if the external stimuli are surprising enough that shock the senses to a different state. I take walk in familiar areas and it gives nothing new so my state of mind is still in the addiction. I go to new places for a walk, and just maybe there is enough new things for distraction.

 

I commented that your new relationship is an exciting one. Those conflicts due to opinions stimulate each other, and offer an exciting unpredictable stimuli to our senses. Then take a couple that agrees on everything and never argue. Nothing new. That lack of production of a high state of neurochemicals ends in boredom in a relationship. Maybe new trips are needed. They might need to do something more exciting. Then there are those that are just fine with such low state. Maybe a lot can be said about opposite attracts. Why? They provide viewpoints that aren't like our own, external stimuli, right? Then you might argue compatibility makes sense too. It's because the two can agree on activities or things to do that are stimulating. Two uncompatible persons can't agree to do similar things but they offer each other something very different. The OW told me that she rather argues with me than not talk to me. Why? The state of connection offers a state of high emission of neurochemicals that is more rewarding the lack of it such as in a state of addiction. Of course, in the end, we are all different and what we need, what our balance should be, are all individual thing. Otherwise, why some of us are depress and others can be happy with ease.

Edited November 20, 2015 by Dylon

[Dylon]

Hi Burnt, lots of interesting points.

 

Like you, I suppose, I have been desperately looking for 'answers' or some sign of 'insights'. In my case, though, this 'seraching' has been there for pretty much my whole life, not just recently involving the affair.

 

I think the state of searching is a problem. The more you search and want, the harder it is to attain. Love hits us unexpectedly. We can't make love or happiness happen. We can only take steps toward that. To feed too much into it is like providing a larger and larger hole to fill. It's like so many threads you see how to stay in NC. I think everyone knows the answer but no one can really will it. Some external factor is needed as a stimulus. Coming from within is very difficult. It works for some people who really have no clues and then bang, someone gave an answer they never heard before. It's why maybe the answer is to change as many things as you can and create a new environment where all things and opportunities are stimulating. Maybe that will bring us something, love or happiness. If not, then at least we are no longer in the previous state that we aren't happy about.

 

You mentioned faith. I'm with HopeForTomorrow unfortunately and there's no chance I can get into it. My mother found Buddhism and it did it for her. I don't like all her craziness but she found that external source for her happiness. It's great to be able to put all our problems and let a "God" takes care of things. To believe in him and to rest in the comfort of his hands. I can completely understand when people turn to faith in times of hopelessness. Why not, just to get ourselves back in our feet as long as one doesn't get carry away.

 

That is, letting go of the past 'attachments' and letting go of future 'fears' and learning to letting it be in the present and living in the moment. In all of these, the major idea seems to be to learn to let go of our expectations of how things 'ought to be', and our learned desire to control or change things to fit into what we want.

I saw the others' responses. It certainly has it place and I really need to practice it more. I think my problem is I can't seem to let go. I told myself when I was younger that I'm doom !

 

So, that's where I disagree with you. By trying to to control the external and by trying to change the surroundings, you may get temporary happiness, but all that is done is creating more permanent mental restraints. In other words, the more you set expectations for yourself, the more you set yourself up for future disapointments, and the more you stop being in the present. So, happiness will come, when you stop trying to find happiness--paradoxically.

I don't think you disagree. I agree with your point. I can see that you feel you have tried this and failed. I meant you can't control and you don't want to. You just change the external environment without the expectation of certain outcome. You need to change to let go of your thought of controlling. By controlling, you are just providing your own stimuli, that for some of us, just doesn't work, right? If we are so great at changing our happiness, feelings, why do we need to talk about it. Like Hope said, we are social creature. If everything is from within, it's not socializing. Control or try to might just be the trap we should stay away from if we want to change the balance of our state of mind. It's like getting a new set of cards. Is it not better to have a new set than to get the cards you expected? Which is more stimulating. In my life, I always control and I want the comfort of stability, absence of change. Never change my external environment and fight to death to remain the same. Looks good on paper.....so where's the happiness?

 

 

 

Stay with those emotions. Listen to the 'pain'. Emotions and pains are responses our own body is producing to let us know 'something's wrong' and 'something's need to be addressed. If you try to mute that too early, you actually end up missing out on the warning sign.

I agree.

 

Would I be wrong to say that I believe it's because of the pain and the hard emotions you have been going through that you are now a more compassionate and mindful person about other's sufferings?

That's really true. I find a bit of myself in your words. I think I dwell on pain too much. Fight fire with fire. If I'm sad, I go to sad movies and listen to sad musics. Like you I'm hurt so I read others' hurt. I think it works to a certain degree because it offers distractions. It also offers reinforcement, don't you think? Most of all, I know it's a way to saturate our brain with those hurtful neurochemicals. Regardless, I found that my month of reading people's hurt shifted my balance a bit. Is it not what we want, to change? Thanks for your input. Edited November 20, 2015 by Dylon