Horrible break up...what was I thinking?

[Notsosuperhero]

So here's my story, me and my ex were dating for 2 years, she was 18 when we met I was 26, and before you say anything I kept telling her that I didn't know if we should date because of her age, but she convinced me anyways. She was my first pretty much everything, I grew up never thinking I was good enough for anyone so I never really tried dating anyone. I've always felt ashamed that I don't have a lot of experience, like people are going to expect more, but I digress.

 

We met at work and did get along very well. We started really talking after her previous BF broke up with her, it started with her just talking to me because she felt really down, which yeah looking back HUGE red flag, but I was pretty emotionally immature. So after that we started dating, I grew up a lot during the relationship, I learned how to be a better person. I knew what it meant to actually care and love about someone for all of what they are. We did a lot together, we would go out to dinner, we started making cakes for some extra cash, we were on bowling leagues, planning trips.

 

So here we are 2 years later and she abruptly says she needs a break, she just got a full time job at a different store and things were a bit shaky but we were still doing okay, then a month ago is when she decided that she needed a break, I was obviously suspicious since it came out of no where, so me being not too experienced with relationships did all that begging and pleading nonsense, didn't work. Then about a week ago I find out she already has a new boyfriend, what I suspected all along. So I decided to cut her out, she was pretty emotionally controlling now that I look back, and she always needs someone to constantly validate her, which she says I stopped caring about her, which was not true at all, I loved and cared about her more than anyone ever has(including her own family), and that's not an exaggeration, but that is what she blamed it on, whatever, whatever you need to justify everything. So I cut her out I haven't talked to her in like 3 weeks and no FB contact, nothing, but then today I get into work and I find out that she stopped in on one of my days off and was bad mouthing me and showing pictures of her new boyfriend saying how much she loves him and that he treats her great and that I treated her so horribly and yada yada yada. She was saying all of this to a friend I've been friends with for many years, I'm not sure my friend knows the whole story because I haven't seen her in a bit(she's older with kids and a second job and such so she's a busy lady) but it just really pissed me off because I did a lot for her, she didn't have a license so I drove her around all the time even though I have severe driving anxiety, I drove her mother to a bunch of places because her mother couldn't drive, I let her live with me for almost the whole relationship, even my family took her in as one of their own. I gave up a lot of my friends for her because I have a lot of female friends and I've never had feelings for any of them except one which has had feelings for me too(so that one I can understand her being uncomfortable with), I know that was a mistake to do that to my friends but you live and learn I guess. I only lied a few times and they weren't big lies and I apologized for that, it wasn't right to lie I know that, I looked up someone on FB, didn't message her or anything and that was stupid of me, and she found out I looked at porn(sorry for being a guy I guess) so she was blaming this all on me being a horrible person but I really know that I'm not, now I realize I only lied because she never made me feel comfortable to tell her things because how she overreacts. Someone brought up something about asking me or telling me something and she seemed so hurt that I don't talk to her anymore, like she doesn't even get what she did. She's also really upset that pretty much everyone is taking my side, which I never up until now told them that it was her fault I always just told them that we both made mistakes, but they say that they say how good I treated her and that I deserve a lot better.

 

I know I was raised right, I come from a big Italian family that has about 15 females and 3 guys so I've always been taught to respect women, but that also meant that I understand them a bit better than most men.

 

I've just never felt so angry in my life, and I don't want her back, it's just everything is so confusing and it's impossible to get away from everything because she chooses to stop in my work when there is literally no need to. I'm a very rational person and nothing about this makes any sense to me, how it can go from love to just bad mouthing me and spreading lies, I mean if you wanted another guy all you had to do was say "yea there's someone else" and I would have just bowed out.

 

Not even really looking for advise just want to know that I'm not the problem here, because right now I feel pretty hopeless like I can't do anything right.

[Downtown]

She was pretty emotionally controlling now that I look back, and she always needs someone to constantly validate her, which she says I stopped caring about her, which was not true at all.

Hero, welcome to the LoveShack forum. The behaviors you describe -- i.e., the irrational jealousy, need for constant validation, controlling behavior, anger issues, and always being "The Victim" -- are some of the classic warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Importantly, I'm not suggesting your exGF has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she might exhibit moderate to strong traits of it or another PD.

 

I caution that BPD is a "spectrum" disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your exGF exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do.

 

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are not difficult to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as irrational jealousy and always being "The Victim."

 

My ex was a cutter. [Your post today in Chowder's thread.]

Hero, I assume that this "Ex" discussed in Chowder's thread is the same exGF you are describing here. Significantly, the APA's diagnostic manual (DSM-5) lists "self-harming behavior such as cutting" for only one disorder: Borderline Personality Disorder. That is, of the 157 disorders listed in DSM-5, only BPD has "cutting" listed as a defining trait.

 

Moreover, many studies have shown that self harm like cutting is strongly associated with BPD. A 2004 hospital study, for example, found that

Self-mutilating behavior is a symptom seen in both men and women with various psychiatric disorders, but

the majority of those who self-mutilate are women with borderline personality disorder

. This complex, maladaptive behavior is used by clients as a means of self-preservation and emotion regulation, and is often associated with childhood trauma.

See

J Psychosoc Nurs Ment Health Serv. 2004

.

I therefore suggest you take a look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you.

 

Significantly, learning to spot these warning signs will NOT enable you to diagnose your exGF's issues. Only a professional can do that. Yet, like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a very painful experience -- e.g., avoid taking her back and avoid running into the arms of another woman just like her. Take care, Hero.

[sandylee1]

She doesn't like the fact that you blocked her...so she resorted to telling these lies. She's rather childish and immature. She knows you didn't treat her badly and so do you. Your conscience is clear. If people mention it to you ....just say you're no longer together..there was no argument or anything.

 

 

She wants attention and she's hoping after you hear the lies that you will contact her.... DON'T....leave her be..and put it down to an experience.

 

You seem very genuine and I'm sure you'll find a lovely girl...who doesn't behave like your Ex.

 

You've had a lucky escape from her controlling ways. Be glad for that.

[mightycpa]

At the ripe old age of 28, you should know that she's just a 20 year old girl who is doing the things that 20 year olds do. If you were 20 again, you'd go and start doing those things too, but because you've already done them, and have apparently forgotten what it is like to be 20, you're all upset.

 

Don't be. It has nothing to do with you. You could have been the perfect boyfriend, but unless you have the ability to split yourself into more people, then this was going to happen. It isn't the 1600's anymore, you know?

 

Understand this for what it is, let it go, and go find a girl that's a little bit more on your wavelength.

[Wewon]

At the ripe old age of 28, you should know that she's just a 20 year old girl who is doing the things that 20 year olds do. If you were 20 again, you'd go and start doing those things too, but because you've already done them, and have apparently forgotten what it is like to be 20, you're all upset.

 

Don't be. It has nothing to do with you. You could have been the perfect boyfriend, but unless you have the ability to split yourself into more people, then this was going to happen. It isn't the 1600's anymore, you know?

 

Understand this for what it is, let it go, and go find a girl that's a little bit more on your wavelength.

 

 

From the sound of it, the OP was pretty inexperienced until he met this girl at 26 so it may really be foreign for him, not so much as him refusing to relate.

 

If anything, this is the real trauma of breaking up when you don't have much experience, constantly trying to parse out why things fell apart and wondering what you could have done differently.

 

OP, I think that you have to realize that sometimes you can do everything right and a relationship can still go sideways. As someone once told me, it takes two people to make a relationship successful, but only one selfish person for run it off the road.

[Notsosuperhero]

Thanks for the responses everyone.

 

It is pretty foreign to me, but I know she's young and I'm just angry about the way she went about things that's all, which was like a flip of a switch. Before she really didn't have all the animosity, then all of a sudden...poof...I'm so horrible, sorry but even at 20 I wouldn't have done things like that.

 

But she did text me tonight saying that karma is really taking care of her(whatever that means) and that she hopes I have a happy life, no apology or anything but I'm gonna stay the course and just ignore it, I know its just her trying to get me to hang around on her, and I'm not gonna let that happen.

[NoLeafClover]

I was going to comment on this whole immaturity level of the OP's girlfriend then I read a few comments that were a bit over the top..

 

Dude first off, get off the whole 'I am Italian descent I know how to treat a woman' attitude BS. I don't know why some people with an Italian ancestry feel the need to rub their nipples and claim they know the right way of things because of that. They don't teach you in guido school about Italy's high rate of female trafficking I guess. Have you been to an Italian club IN ITALY? Women get harassed non stop from boys. Even walking down the streets they get harassed. Don't be so quick to through stereotypical comments you might not have any idea about.

 

Perhaps you need to see people you date as equal before understanding your ex. Unfortunately it doesn't matter how much stuff you did for her. You two were different. You wanted to do things for her because you wanted to be with her. Now that she turned her back on you, you can see how much more you did on your end. To avoid such situations, I would to try and date someone that is more up to your level (whichever way you want to measure things).

 

E.g You have a car, make sure your next gf has a car. So that when you run into another break up, you will actually focus more on the emotional side of things.

At this point I feel like you two are fighting more about what side people are going to take.

Brush her off your shoulders, keep your friends and forget about her. When you are over this whole situation you can start dating again.

 

In life you will have many things you can't find an answer to. She is one of them. She wants people to be on her side to justify her jumping too quickly to a new man. You need to realize that no matter what you do, the end result is the same. You can argue it, you can fight it, try to talk to her, or forget about her and move on..end result is that the same - The relationship is over for good.

[Notsosuperhero]

I know you're absolutely right NoLeafClover. It's not really the fact that I did things for her, I didn't mind, but just the fact that it was so unappreciated, because even though she hurt me so much I still look back and can appreciate the things that she did do for me.

 

I think what is making this so hard on me is the fact that I lost my aunt right after christmas, in fact it was at a family party when everything happened, I won't get into the details but it was the worst thing I have ever seen and it will be forever ingrained in my mind. She was basically a 2nd mother to me, our two families have always been that close, then after that her daughter moved to North Carolina to try to escape all her hurting, her son got married and spends all his time with the wife's family, and a year before that I lost my grandfather who was an amazing man. It just feels like everyone is disappearing from my life all at once and I really don't know how to handle it all. There is just a lot of dark clouds hanging over me right now, I feel like I'm drowning. I have been thinking a lot about dying lately, I wouldn't do that to my family, but sometimes it just feels like it'd be easier to just succumb to it, and I haven't felt this way in ten years, I had all that well under control and now it's just roaring back in force. I'm just really out of hope for everything at this point.

 

I am starting therapy for the first time next Monday, I'm terrified but I am hopeful it will be very good for me. And I'm so lucky that I have an amazing family, when I finally told my mother that I was thinking about suicide she dropped everything at work and immediately came over, my cousin who is a counselor came over to talk with me about everything, my sister kept me on the phone to keep me occupied. It really made me realize how great they all are.

 

And Downtown you are absolutely right, she very much is BPD. I have researched all about personality disorders, not for her but for myself since I have my own issues, which is why it took me so long to have a relationship which sucks because I feel like I screwed up my whole life because I didn't get those experiences, I feel like I'm too old to just start learning now. But the good thing from this was that I did grow as a person and learned that I am capable of love and treating someone well, sucks for her that she didn't want it, her loss.

 

Also I didn't mean to seem like because of my heritage I learned how to treat women just the fact that there were so many women in my family.

[Downtown]

It's just everything is so confusing.

Hero, if you've actually been dating a woman having strong BPD traits, consider yourself lucky that you are only feeling "confused." Of the 157 disorders listed in the APA's diagnostic manual, BPD is the one most notorious -- by far -- for making the abused partners feel like they may be losing their minds. (To a lesser extent, narcissists also have this effect on the partners.) The result is that therapists see far more of those abused partners -- coming in to find out if they are going crazy -- than they ever see of the BPDers themselves.

 

I'm a very rational person and nothing about this makes any sense to me, how it can go from love to just bad mouthing me and spreading lies?

If your exGF has strong BPD traits as you suspect, she likely has the emotional development of a 4 year old. This means that she is too immature to tolerate experiencing two strongly conflicting feelings (e.g., love and hate) at the same time. Her subconscious mind protects her fragile ego from having to deal with this conundrum by "splitting off" the conflicting feeling (e.g., the loving feelings), putting them out of reach of the conscious mind.

 

This is why BPDers and young children will flip -- in only ten seconds -- between loving and hating you. They cannot perceive you as a loving man who sometimes does hurtful things. Rather, they tend to perceive you as either "all good" or "all bad." A young child, for example, adores Daddy when he is bringing out the toys but, in an instant, will flip to hating Daddy when he takes one toy away.

 

With BPDers (i.e., those having strong BPD traits), the result is that you can make sacrifices for them for years and then -- in an instant -- they can flip to devaluing you, or even hating you. Importantly, this does NOT mean that BPDers and young children are bad people. On the contrary, most BPDers and kids are good and caring people. Their problem is not being bad but, rather, being emotionally immature and unstable.

[Confusioncreepsin]

Hero, if you've actually been dating a woman having strong BPD traits, consider yourself lucky that you are only feeling "confused." Of the 157 disorders listed in the APA's diagnostic manual, BPD is the one most notorious -- by far -- for making the abused partners feel like they may be losing their minds. (To a lesser extent, narcissists also have this effect on the partners.) The result is that therapists see far more of those abused partners -- coming in to find out if they are going crazy -- than they ever see of the BPDers themselves.

 

If your exGF has strong BPD traits as you suspect, she likely has the emotional development of a 4 year old. This means that she is too immature to tolerate experiencing two strongly conflicting feelings (e.g., love and hate) at the same time. Her subconscious mind protects her fragile ego from having to deal with this conundrum by "splitting off" the conflicting feeling (e.g., the loving feelings), putting them out of reach of the conscious mind.

 

This is why BPDers and young children will flip -- in only ten seconds -- between loving and hating you. They cannot perceive you as a loving man who sometimes does hurtful things. Rather, they tend to perceive you as either "all good" or "all bad." A young child, for example, adores Daddy when he is bringing out the toys but, in an instant, will flip to hating Daddy when he takes one toy away.

 

With BPDers (i.e., those having strong BPD traits), the result is that you can make sacrifices for them for years and then -- in an instant -- they can flip to devaluing you, or even hating you. Importantly, this does NOT mean that BPDers and young children are bad people. On the contrary, most BPDers and kids are good and caring people. Their problem is not being bad but, rather, being emotionally immature and unstable.

 

 

Sorry to interrupt, but DownTown you are amazing and a life saver for me, since I was wrapped up in a BPD to the core. Worst time of my life and still recovering but wanted to throw out another resource that straightened my thought process and propelled healing : THERE MUST BE A PONY IN HERE, SOMEWHERE - Sorting Your Way Through the BPD Madness!

[Downtown]

Wanted to throw out another resource that straightened my thought process and propelled healing : THERE MUST BE A PONY IN HERE, SOMEWHERE.

Confusion, if you would like to discuss your exGF's apparent BPD traits, I would be glad to join you in your "When a Break Happens" thread if you have questions to raise there. As to the Schreiber blog, I recommend you NOT rely on her for a basic understanding of BPD behavior. I do not like her portrayal of BPDers as manipulative spiders who spin webs to trap you and as people who are unable to love. Those claims are simply false and unsupported.

 

Schreiber confuses BPD traits with those of narcissists and sociopaths and thus fails to distinguish among these three groups of people. Yet, if your Ex has very strong narcissistic traits in addition to strong BPD traits, I can see how you would find Schreiber's descriptions useful. Keep in mind, however, that BPDers typically do not exhibit strong traits of NPD or sociopathy (Antisocial PD). Generally, roughly 40% of BPDers have strong NPD traits in addition to the BPD traits. I mention this because the cheating and frequent lying you describe in your threads are essentially NPD traits, not BPD traits.

 

If you read Shari Schreiber's page about herself at that same website, you will find that she claims to have an MA degree in Psychology but says nothing about being licensed as a therapist. Previously, she had claimed to be a therapist but BPDfamily.com raised objections to that claim. In Calif, she apparently completed an internship for therapy but never did complete the requirements for being licensed.

 

That said, I nonetheless do very much like her explanation of how we excessive caregivers get to be this way in childhood. This is why I often refer caregivers to her blog article called Do You Love to be Needed, or Need to be Loved? But please keep in mind that neither "excessive caregiving" nor "codependency" is considered to be a disorder. That's why it does NOT appear in the APA's diagnostic manual (DSM-5).

[makemineamac]

Confusion, if you would like to discuss your exGF's apparent BPD traits, I would be glad to join you in your "When a Break Happens" thread if you have questions to raise there. As to the Schreiber blog, I recommend you NOT rely on her for a basic understanding of BPD behavior. I do not like her portrayal of BPDers as manipulative spiders who spin webs to trap you and as people who are unable to love. Those claims are simply false and unsupported.

 

Schreiber confuses BPD traits with those of narcissists and sociopaths and thus fails to distinguish among these three groups of people. Yet, if your Ex has very strong narcissistic traits in addition to strong BPD traits, I can see how you would find Schreiber's descriptions useful. Keep in mind, however, that BPDers typically do not exhibit strong traits of NPD or sociopathy (Antisocial PD). Generally, roughly 40% of BPDers have strong NPD traits in addition to the BPD traits. I mention this because the cheating and frequent lying you describe in your threads are essentially NPD traits, not BPD traits.

 

If you read Shari Schreiber's page about herself at that same website, you will find that she claims to have an MA degree in Psychology but says nothing about being licensed as a therapist. Previously, she had claimed to be a therapist but BPDfamily.com raised objections to that claim. In Calif, she apparently completed an internship for therapy but never did complete the requirements for being licensed.

 

That said, I nonetheless do very much like her explanation of how we excessive caregivers get to be this way in childhood. This is why I often refer caregivers to her blog article called Do You Love to be Needed, or Need to be Loved? But please keep in mind that neither "excessive caregiving" nor "codependency" is considered to be a disorder. That's why it does NOT appear in the APA's diagnostic manual (DSM-5).

Ugh. I just read that article you posted Downtown. Sounds like I have a lot of work to do though I can't point out specifically what needs of mine were unmet by my mother in childhood, but I will figure it out. Thanks for posting it.

[Confusioncreepsin]

Confusion, if you would like to discuss your exGF's apparent BPD traits, I would be glad to join you in your "When a Break Happens" thread if you have questions to raise there. As to the Schreiber blog, I recommend you NOT rely on her for a basic understanding of BPD behavior. I do not like her portrayal of BPDers as manipulative spiders who spin webs to trap you and as people who are unable to love. Those claims are simply false and unsupported.

 

Schreiber confuses BPD traits with those of narcissists and sociopaths and thus fails to distinguish among these three groups of people. Yet, if your Ex has very strong narcissistic traits in addition to strong BPD traits, I can see how you would find Schreiber's descriptions useful. Keep in mind, however, that BPDers typically do not exhibit strong traits of NPD or sociopathy (Antisocial PD). Generally, roughly 40% of BPDers have strong NPD traits in addition to the BPD traits. I mention this because the cheating and frequent lying you describe in your threads are essentially NPD traits, not BPD traits.

 

If you read Shari Schreiber's page about herself at that same website, you will find that she claims to have an MA degree in Psychology but says nothing about being licensed as a therapist. Previously, she had claimed to be a therapist but BPDfamily.com raised objections to that claim. In Calif, she apparently completed an internship for therapy but never did complete the requirements for being licensed.

 

That said, I nonetheless do very much like her explanation of how we excessive caregivers get to be this way in childhood. This is why I often refer caregivers to her blog article called Do You Love to be Needed, or Need to be Loved? But please keep in mind that neither "excessive caregiving" nor "codependency" is considered to be a disorder. That's why it does NOT appear in the APA's diagnostic manual (DSM-5).

 

I would absolutely value your insight and knowledge in my thread. I can certainly summarize the ordeal for your review. Again, I would highly value your thoughts since you are the reason I learned about BPD in the first place

[Confusioncreepsin]

Confusion, if you would like to discuss your exGF's apparent BPD traits, I would be glad to join you in your "When a Break Happens" thread if you have questions to raise there. As to the Schreiber blog, I recommend you NOT rely on her for a basic understanding of BPD behavior. I do not like her portrayal of BPDers as manipulative spiders who spin webs to trap you and as people who are unable to love. Those claims are simply false and unsupported.

 

Schreiber confuses BPD traits with those of narcissists and sociopaths and thus fails to distinguish among these three groups of people. Yet, if your Ex has very strong narcissistic traits in addition to strong BPD traits, I can see how you would find Schreiber's descriptions useful. Keep in mind, however, that BPDers typically do not exhibit strong traits of NPD or sociopathy (Antisocial PD). Generally, roughly 40% of BPDers have strong NPD traits in addition to the BPD traits. I mention this because the cheating and frequent lying you describe in your threads are essentially NPD traits, not BPD traits.

 

If you read Shari Schreiber's page about herself at that same website, you will find that she claims to have an MA degree in Psychology but says nothing about being licensed as a therapist. Previously, she had claimed to be a therapist but BPDfamily.com raised objections to that claim. In Calif, she apparently completed an internship for therapy but never did complete the requirements for being licensed.

 

That said, I nonetheless do very much like her explanation of how we excessive caregivers get to be this way in childhood. This is why I often refer caregivers to her blog article called Do You Love to be Needed, or Need to be Loved? But please keep in mind that neither "excessive caregiving" nor "codependency" is considered to be a disorder. That's why it does NOT appear in the APA's diagnostic manual (DSM-5).

 

 

 

My thread is all ready DownTown!!! Thank you