ShatteredLady Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 My H's OW continued to reach out a couple of times a year for 12 YEARS before it started-up again. 12 YEARS!! Put a stop to this now. 1
fellini Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 (edited) One can look at this OP through at least 2 sets of eyes. The one, which he presents here, that he is a victim of his affair fog, and is struggling to disconnect from his AP. But she is being persistent. But still, you have to swallow more than a little common sense to believe this process of passing emails along to IC's and then getting summaries of them. As you wish. The other is what comes from reading the back story for exactly what it says. And in this scenario OP is doing nothing less than narcissitic hoovering while he sets about doing "the right thing" all the while wishing - yes denying his own desires - to do the other. This is classic Brown split-self affair. In this scenario, it does not matter whether one keeps the AP "alive" through positive or negative contact. Sharing anything about AP does the job of NH merely by calling her into existence. NOT attending to AP, especially when AP breaks through the wall, is a stronger indication. Indifference to AP is required. What we want, what we say we want, and what we know we should want, but do not, or which we deny, is extremely frequent in people who have the experience of being in love with two people at the same time. Oh yes, it's obvious that being in love with two people is an unacceptable social situation, and needs to be corrected. But the question is not "is OP trying to do the right thing", because of course, he appears to be. The question is, "in trying to do the right thing" is he conscious of his parallel desire to hold onto, to monitor his "hidden" desires that he has for his AP. Has he genuinely seen the light? or is he keeping the candle burning at both ends? And for me, his comments about how he returns to the recent flame during "moments" indicates he has merely set upon the path of "doing the right thing" but is more than possibly, even to the extent that he is unaware of doing so, of keeping his friends close, his enemies closer. And so no, this is not the way to "get over your AP". Edited November 5, 2015 by fellini 1
Ladyjane14 Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 I agree, he does need to be able to see this from his wife's point of view. However, sometimes we cannot control the ORDER of our feelings, of which comes first. Oftentimes we need to first get distance from the affair, from the AP, in order to be able to gain the empathy. I'm sure it is different for everyone. Perhaps some people are first able to see exactly how terribly they hurt their spouse, and that is what causes them to feel disgust for their AP. I am a fWW. I was one who had to put distance between my self and xAP before I could clearly see the full measure of the betrayal I had unleashed on my H. I just fear that if the OP believes that the one right way to do this is he must feel this particular way, or else his marriage is doomed, that he may give up and assume his 'feelings' mean he is supposed to be with the AP, or perhaps just that his marriage is not 'meant to be.' I see some people post on here saying, you MUST feel 'this way' or 'that way' or you are feeling 'regret rather than remorse, so just divorce and move on.' I believe that can be wrong thinking. It would be akin to an addict assuming that just because he pined away for a drink or his drug of choice, it must mean he just really needed it or it was good for him somehow. It's NOT. He needs to get clear of it before he can see the forest for the trees. I don't want the OP to think that just because he doesn't feel a certain way RIGHT NOW, then his marriage is doomed or he is supposed to be with another person. That would be acting on temporary emotions. Now I can't say anything about what his wife is doing. She can't force him to feel anything differently. She can tighten the reins on him if she wants, but nothing she does can MAKE anything happen. She could get firmer with him, but it sounds like he is not continuing the affair. But it is fully up to her as to whether she can handle this very difficult period, of him 'withdrawing' from his 'addiction.' If she can't, then that is completely understandable. But it IS temporary. Affairs are so horrible. So much pain for nothing really. The ONLY thing you can do is try to use it as a major wake-up call to make something MUCH better out of your life and marriage going forward. But you are in crisis, OP, and you have to get through that first. Agreed. Feelings are fluid, they drift through our consciousness like clouds through the sky. If one were to engage in mindfulness techniques, the feeling would be recognized, perhaps labeled, and then allowed to drift by. Acknowledging a feeling does not make it truth; it does not make it actionable. What it does is allow for the frontal cortex of the brain to engage the amygdala and sort out the sense of anxiety connected with the feeling to some extent. They say that "what we resist will persist". So... acknowledge the feeling, understand that it is harmless and of a temporary nature, then let it float on by. Save the moments of deeper analysis, when you look at the former OW with clear eyes and see her faults, or when you choose to empathize fully with your wife, for times when you're ready to engage your higher brain and make choices. Think of it like this... thinking/feeling. You can order your thinking, but not your feelings. Use careful analysis to order your thoughts, use mindfulness to order your feelings. Put some kind of little mantra on it, like "feeling anxious... feeling anxious... feeling anxious" (or whatever describes it), do not hold it or resist it, just allow it to drift by your consciousness. By their very nature, feelings are fleeting. They pass on by and another feeling arises, and another, and another as our day progresses. 1
Southern Sun Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 I have to agree with some of the other posters that, while you appear to be trying to cut off the AP, you are still doing things that indicate you are hanging on. You haven't shut all the escape hatches, so to speak. I have no idea about your therapist, but I'm starting to wonder how good this one is for you. He/She gave you a summary of the letter? Are you SERIOUS? Frankly, I think that was a terrible idea. I'm not sure what the therapist was thinking by giving you this information, but I can't imagine it was helpful to you in any way. What this tells me is you are NOT in no contact. You might call it that, but receiving letters (and random emails) from her means that you're not. No wonder you are not recovering. There are also different schools of thought out there, but sometimes traditional talk therapy can be counter-productive. Does your therapist engage in moral relativism? Nothing is really right or wrong? You just talk and they simply allow you to wander through the conversation? Do you feel like you ever really get anywhere? I know for me, after a while, I just wanted to ask mine, but what is RIGHT?! Tell me, isn't that WRONG?! And she would always back off, she would ask me to figure it out, she would tell me that's just how I feel, I shouldn't place moral judgments on myself. Now, that will confuse the hell out of you. Sorry. I think you need to go full-on blackout with this AP. You need to find a way and I don't really care about your excuses (sorry, not being harsh). Tell your employer you have an issue, ask to change your number and email. Or get a restraining order. Or both. Do it. This is about your mental health at this point. And your marriage. Your entire future. I also think you need to reconsider this therapist. CERTAINLY no more filtering communications from the AP to the therapist and all that crap. Insanity. There should be a total cutoff. That is just keeping it alive. Unless of course you want to keep it alive. But I think you just need to cut the cord OP. Just do it. 1
OneLov Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 (edited) OP: I am going to take a different approach, do not commit to any relationship right now because you don't seem to know what you want. I know that sounds horribly selfish, but it is true. Healing begins with honesty not willingness. You seem to be willing and committed to work on your marriage but do you want to? If in your heart you are unsure, then make a decision not to decide until you are sure. Yes, they will be upset and there's a good chance you may lose them both, but going into reconciliation if you still pine for the OW is unfair to the BS. And stay NC with the OW until you are no longer willing to attempt reconciliation with the BS. Be careful you are not mistaking feelings of shame for those of guilt. Do not reconcile out of shame. But you MUST be honest with yourself first and foremost. All the best, OneLov Edited November 5, 2015 by OneLov 1
Carriages Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 If you aren't over the person you cheated with then you have no business still being in a relationship with the woman you cheated on. It's HIGHLY disrespectful..do you not understand that? Or do you truly feel that not being over the skank you cheated with is something people respectful of their partners do? I'd like to hear some viewpoints on this one. I'm not sure if I believe it or not. As a WS myself, there's no WAY I am over my AP yet after close to a month of NC... although I feel things are slowly improving. Left to my own devices, it could take many more lonely months. But sometimes I feel that a commitment to reconciling with my wife might just be what is needed to clear the last of the fog and make my marriage work. OR it could trigger a "decision backlash" and have me yearning for my AP even more. What do people think??
katielee Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 Carriages - consider that you're not yearning for your AP, you're yearning for the way you felt having your ego stroked and being the center of attention. Its not her. It's the feeling. When you think of it - you're yearning for your accomplice in breaking your wife's heart. She's not a good person. She doesn't deserve to be yearned for. Put yourself in your wife's position - really follow it. Imagine it was she that cheated and she was yearning for her AP. How would you feel? 3
gettingstronger Posted November 5, 2015 Posted November 5, 2015 I'd like to hear some viewpoints on this one. I'm not sure if I believe it or not. As a WS myself, there's no WAY I am over my AP yet after close to a month of NC... although I feel things are slowly improving. Left to my own devices, it could take many more lonely months. But sometimes I feel that a commitment to reconciling with my wife might just be what is needed to clear the last of the fog and make my marriage work. OR it could trigger a "decision backlash" and have me yearning for my AP even more. What do people think?? I will cut and paste my response from page 1 on this "My experience as a BS- when my husband told me he never thought fondly of our OW post dday, I was sure he was full of it- he reported only feel guilt and shame and that the whole thing was rolled up in to one big ball of humiliation and regret, no way to separate the person and experiences from the feeling of regret and self-loathing- Of course, I asked my IC about it, because I couldn't imagine he did not at least have some good feelings about her- my IC agreed with my husband and said the truly remorseful do feel that way, they have no positive feelings at all about anything associated with the affair- we then discussed it in MC and the MC counselor said the same thing, my husband would become physically sick when we talked about it- leaving the room to vomit- So, if this is not you- I think you have a lot more IC to go through and you owe it to your wife to tell her how you are feeling- regardless of how kind and loving she is being, she still deserves the truth of you- If you find even through IC that you still can not shake feelings for the OW, you should consider leaving your marriage as reconciliation is a years long process and the further you are in to it, the more damage you may do to your wife if you simply can not find your way to remorse and love her and only her- Good luck-" Now, if you don't agree- that is fine but hopefully you will understand that if you are still "getting over your AP" you should at least tell your wife- you have done enough hiding and lying to her- she deserves truth from you from here on out, no matter what the cost to you- she deserves to know who she is reconciling with- 2
wmacbride Posted November 6, 2015 Posted November 6, 2015 What we allow persists. My XAP attempts to creep back in with contact every 6 months or so. Each time she does, I tell my wife. Each time she does, I see more and more how wrong I was about her and who I thought she was. If she's finding you on social media, cool that down. I don't know your full story, but I do know that time reveals all. Two months is not a long time in terms of NC. The road to clear headedness and healing takes much, much longer. Give your XAP nothing. No nibbles. No attention. Nothing. Best to you, RL By telling your W about the attempts at contact, you are also rebuilding trust and letting her know it's safe for her to love you again. That's one of the best gifts you can give to her right now. 2
fellini Posted November 6, 2015 Posted November 6, 2015 (edited) By telling your W about the attempts at contact, you are also rebuilding trust and letting her know it's safe for her to love you again. That's one of the best gifts you can give to her right now. On the surface it seems reasonable. But the problem is it simply is not true. Rebuilding trust and letting her know it's safe to love OP again would require honesty. Many WS's do "whatever it takes" to "show" - through their actions - that they have thrown the AP under the bus and are back in the marriage. But many of them clearly are not. What they are doing is focussing all their energy on the grieving BS and NOT disconnecting emotionally, INSIDE, with their AP. Sharing the thoughts and feelings of the AP through a letter received privately IS NOT SHOWING YOUR BS THAT IT IS SAFE TO LOVE YOU AGAIN. It is a signal of the opposite. A BS who HAS left their AP behind and is moving forward is not KEEN to get a summary of a private email from their IC. He should, if anything, have HANDED THE DOCUMENT TO HIS WS, told her "I haven't read it, and don't wish or care what she says, do what you like with it". THAT SPELLS TRUST and It's safe to love me again. NOT KNOWING the contents of a letter and not worrying about what your BS might learn from it. How can anyone trust their WS if they are sharing private communication with an AP with their IC but not with their WS? And it doesn't matter if she "doesn't want to know", he has to give her the communication each and every time and tell her that he needs her to know she has the right to everything. She should be told that he is back her in LS talking about his lingering feelings for his AP. That is honesty. That is where trust comes from. The deeper truth is far more important to me than the surface truth. Edited November 6, 2015 by fellini 2
Ladyjane14 Posted November 6, 2015 Posted November 6, 2015 I don't see any overt attempts at dishonesty here. Giving an unopened email to one's IC in order to make certain that it contains no threat isn't dishonest. Hearing back from the IC a brief synopsis isn't a form of dishonesty either. Excluding the former OW from daily marital interactions is a GOOD thing for a lot of recovering couples, so I've got no problem with how this was handled as long as the wife is on board and decisions are no longer being made unilaterally without her input. The OP has already done a remarkable job of connecting his feelings of anxiety with thoughts of the former AP, so he knows where those thoughts are coming from. Hopefully, he's recognizing how the affair was medicating his anxiety/depression so that properly labeling these anxious feelings when they arise will become a habit. IOW, the OW was a symptom, not the disease... and I do believe he's begun processing that information since he's able to associate his anxiety with the unwanted thought patterns. I really do think that mindfulness training, with its emphasis on self-compassion, would go a long way to helping further sort and label these feelings and get this anxiety/depression under control. There are many good books on the subject, and you can usually sample a few pages before purchase when perusing online retailers. I don't doubt there will be people who disagree that a WS should exercise more compassion toward himself. It's true that some people are just bone-deep selfish *******s. But in cases where adultery is used as a crutch for not dealing with issues of low self-esteem or anxiety/depression, prolonged punishing of oneself doesn't help. It makes you more of a danger to your primary relationship. It makes you more likely to cheat again in the future. It's correctly identifying and treating the underlying issues which makes it safe for the betrayed spouse to trust you again.
fellini Posted November 6, 2015 Posted November 6, 2015 (edited) I don't see any overt attempts at dishonesty here. Giving an unopened email to one's IC in order to make certain that it contains no threat isn't dishonest. Hearing back from the IC a brief synopsis isn't a form of dishonesty either. Excluding the former OW from daily marital interactions is a GOOD thing for a lot of recovering couples, so I've got no problem with how this was handled as long as the wife is on board and decisions are no longer being made unilaterally without her input. "Giving an unopened email to one's IC in order to make certain that it contains no threat isn't dishonest." (Ah, so you bought that argument. Makes sense. How about this for a discussion.... OP: "Would you mind reading its contents and let me know to make sure no threats are being made against myself or my wife?" IC: "The letter contains no threats of any kind. Shall we move on? OP: So what did she say then? IC: Basically.... "Hearing back from the IC a brief synopsis isn't a form of dishonesty either" Really? When the OP says this: "2. I have told my wife about the emails in detail, but did not show them to her." We aren't talking about A EMAIL. The most recent email is one of we don't know how many. And he said "did not show them to her." If this OP were my WW should would be my exW by now. How could ANY BS be so "comfortable" with what this OP says about how he is managing his reconciliation. I don't see how blaming the OW for his psychological state is "healthy", but you seem to think he should be okay with it. And this little gem: "I know it was a fantasy, and it was all built on lies and deception, but some part of me, does the "what ifs" game." I get RESIDUAL INTIMATE feelings for a lost partner but a WHAT IF GAME? Two months down the road? Sorry. Too risky, especially if YOU READ HIS BACK STORY. Edited November 6, 2015 by fellini 2
ladydesigner Posted November 6, 2015 Posted November 6, 2015 How could ANY BS be so "comfortable" with what this OP says about how he is managing his reconciliation. I don't see how blaming the OW for his psychological state is "healthy", but you seem to think he should be okay with it. Yep completely agree. My WH lied to me about our R. He probably was the same as this OP, always pining over the OW while I was suffering. My WH took his A underground that is how thoughtful he was about our R. Knowing what I know now. I wish I would have left after the first broken NC, honestly. 2
Ladyjane14 Posted November 6, 2015 Posted November 6, 2015 "Giving an unopened email to one's IC in order to make certain that it contains no threat isn't dishonest." (Ah, so you bought that argument. Makes sense. How about this for a discussion.... OP: "Would you mind reading its contents and let me know to make sure no threats are being made against myself or my wife?" IC: "The letter contains no threats of any kind. Shall we move on? OP: So what did she say then? IC: Basically.... "Hearing back from the IC a brief synopsis isn't a form of dishonesty either" Really? When the OP says this: "2. I have told my wife about the emails in detail, but did not show them to her." We aren't talking about A EMAIL. The most recent email is one of we don't know how many. And he said "did not show them to her." If this OP were my WW should would be my exW by now. How could ANY BS be so "comfortable" with what this OP says about how he is managing his reconciliation. I don't see how blaming the OW for his psychological state is "healthy", but you seem to think he should be okay with it. And this little gem: "I know it was a fantasy, and it was all built on lies and deception, but some part of me, does the "what ifs" game." I get RESIDUAL INTIMATE feelings for a lost partner but a WHAT IF GAME? Two months down the road? Sorry. Too risky, especially if YOU READ HIS BACK STORY. It would be really nice if every we could just waive a magic wand over every wayward spouse's head and turn them into perfect marital partners overnight. That would be awesome. But it just doesn't happen that way. Most of them don't get into a cheating/rationalizing state of mind overnight and they don't get out of it that way either. It takes time, and it takes effort. I maintain that the OP has made great progress in his ability to associate his feelings of anxiety with thoughts of the OW. It makes it easier for him to understand that she's just a symptom, that there's nothing innately special about her per se. Rather, it's more about how the affair was producing something of a chemical band-aid to cover over his anxiety/depression. He's in treatment for that, and with greater awareness of the triggering mechanism, I think he'll continue to make progress. He's not here telling us that his wife is beside herself from not reading the emails. That might not be something that particularly adds to their process. Who are we to say? Certainly, a remorseful WS is embarrassed about the interactions that went on, and in cases where the affair was about bolstering a low self-esteem or medicating an underlying anxiety/depression, adding more shame can be detrimental. There's also the potential for further wounding of the betrayed wife, and his fear of rocking that boat. Not saying it's right if she has specifically asked to see the emails, but I do understand his reasoning if there's reluctance. Overall though, I'd say he's made good progress. He's ended the affair, ended contact with the OW, and he's recognizing how his own anxiety is associated with triggering thoughts of the OW. He's reengaged with his wife. He recognizes the remarkable quality of her love for him. These are GOOD things when we're talking about reconciliation after betrayal. I'm not sure what all the angst on the board is about.
ladydesigner Posted November 7, 2015 Posted November 7, 2015 It would be really nice if every we could just waive a magic wand over every wayward spouse's head and turn them into perfect marital partners overnight. That would be awesome. But it just doesn't happen that way. Most of them don't get into a cheating/rationalizing state of mind overnight and they don't get out of it that way either. It takes time, and it takes effort. I maintain that the OP has made great progress in his ability to associate his feelings of anxiety with thoughts of the OW. It makes it easier for him to understand that she's just a symptom, that there's nothing innately special about her per se. Rather, it's more about how the affair was producing something of a chemical band-aid to cover over his anxiety/depression. He's in treatment for that, and with greater awareness of the triggering mechanism, I think he'll continue to make progress. He's not here telling us that his wife is beside herself from not reading the emails. That might not be something that particularly adds to their process. Who are we to say? Certainly, a remorseful WS is embarrassed about the interactions that went on, and in cases where the affair was about bolstering a low self-esteem or medicating an underlying anxiety/depression, adding more shame can be detrimental. There's also the potential for further wounding of the betrayed wife, and his fear of rocking that boat. Not saying it's right if she has specifically asked to see the emails, but I do understand his reasoning if there's reluctance. Overall though, I'd say he's made good progress. He's ended the affair, ended contact with the OW, and he's recognizing how his own anxiety is associated with triggering thoughts of the OW. He's reengaged with his wife. He recognizes the remarkable quality of her love for him. These are GOOD things when we're talking about reconciliation after betrayal. I'm not sure what all the angst on the board is about. See I think most WS's had this in them to begin with and now need to fix what made this coping mechanism possible.
fellini Posted November 7, 2015 Posted November 7, 2015 (edited) Unless you are his personal IC. I see nothing but personal suppositions and assessments of his needs based on two posts that reveal less than nothing. His saying he plays "what if games" is more than just some chemical affair fog, those are thoughts about potential futures and revisiting previous decisions. This not progress. He continues to live in cognitive dissonance over abandoning the affair, which is much more reliable given his entire back story. Two months in and he is still wondering about what if... And you seem to be missing the big picture. This OP invested an enormous amount of time in thinking that his wife was not good enough for him. Then he decided to turn it around and make it work. So the issue is not only about his being triggered by his OW. He has to face the demeans of having decided his wife was not as good as his new found love. Sure he is doing the right thing for a MAN waking up from affair fog. I have said as much. But there is still the question of whether he has convinced himself of the things you claim. I dont see it. I see an interest in maintaining continuity of being in love with 2 people of a man who "understands" that being in love with 2 people is wrong, but nonetheless is real, not fake as you surmise. That you clearly understand that it was all chemical, I don't question. But it's not about what you think he thinks, it's about what he says today. It would be really nice if every we could just waive a magic wand over every wayward spouse's head and turn them into perfect marital partners overnight. That would be awesome. But it just doesn't happen that way. Most of them don't get into a cheating/rationalizing state of mind overnight and they don't get out of it that way either. It takes time, and it takes effort. I maintain that the OP has made great progress in his ability to associate his feelings of anxiety with thoughts of the OW. It makes it easier for him to understand that she's just a symptom, that there's nothing innately special about her per se. Rather, it's more about how the affair was producing something of a chemical band-aid to cover over his anxiety/depression. He's in treatment for that, and with greater awareness of the triggering mechanism, I think he'll continue to make progress. He's not here telling us that his wife is beside herself from not reading the emails. That might not be something that particularly adds to their process. Who are we to say? Certainly, a remorseful WS is embarrassed about the interactions that went on, and in cases where the affair was about bolstering a low self-esteem or medicating an underlying anxiety/depression, adding more shame can be detrimental. There's also the potential for further wounding of the betrayed wife, and his fear of rocking that boat. Not saying it's right if she has specifically asked to see the emails, but I do understand his reasoning if there's reluctance. Overall though, I'd say he's made good progress. He's ended the affair, ended contact with the OW, and he's recognizing how his own anxiety is associated with triggering thoughts of the OW. He's reengaged with his wife. He recognizes the remarkable quality of her love for him. These are GOOD things when we're talking about reconciliation after betrayal. I'm not sure what all the angst on the board is about. Edited November 7, 2015 by fellini 1
Ladyjane14 Posted November 7, 2015 Posted November 7, 2015 Unless you are his personal IC. I see nothing but personal suppositions and assessments of his needs based on two posts that reveal less than nothing. His saying he plays "what if games" is more than just some chemical affair fog, those are thoughts about potential futures and revisiting previous decisions. This not progress. He continues to live in cognitive dissonance over abandoning the affair, which is much more reliable given his entire back story. Two months in and he is still wondering about what if... And you seem to be missing the big picture. This OP invested an enormous amount of time in thinking that his wife was not good enough for him. Then he decided to turn it around and make it work. So the issue is not only about his being triggered by his OW. He has to face the demeans of having decided his wife was not as good as his new found love. Sure he is doing the right thing for a MAN waking up from affair fog. I have said as much. But there is still the question of whether he has convinced himself of the things you claim. I dont see it. I see an interest in maintaining continuity of being in love with 2 people of a man who "understands" that being in love with 2 people is wrong, but nonetheless is real, not fake as you surmise. I think it's true that we all make suppositions and assessments before we post here. But I'm not basing mine on just two posts, even though I found those two posts quite revealing. I'm basing it on his posting history, anecdotal evidence in my real life, and years of studying infidelity. I've never claimed to be a professional therapist, but I do agree with what he has previously reported as his IC's assessment.. that there are feelings of addiction regarding the affair in play. As to whether he believed his wife was "good enough", that's a pretty common sentiment from cheating husbands. It's how they rationalize the betrayal. So, yeah... unless a guy is going to hookers or engaging in one night stands, he's likely to be making negative comparisons at home. I think we all have our own definition of "love". I don't confuse mine with feelings of infatuation where our own hormones are the most defining characteristic. For me, it's about who you want to spend the rest of your life with, taking care of and being comforted by, when the rush of infatuation is over. When I read through the OP's posting history, I see a guy who has been fairly consistent in trying to extricate himself from an extramarital affair and find his way back home. And being an anxious person myself, I understand how your rational brain functions can be quite at odds with your emotional brain functions, sending your thoughts spinning down paths you don't want to be on. This is not an area that's exclusive to post-trauma betrayed spouses.
SoleMate Posted November 7, 2015 Posted November 7, 2015 The only possible reason for a couple in authentic reconciliation to review communications from the ex-AP is to determine whether there is a threat that requires them to take action. Not sure whether a therapist is the best choice for this risk assessment. As a poster said above, OP, the only thing your "contact risk reviewer" should be telling you is either: "No risk" or <ex-AP has threatened to do <<xyz>> and sounds quite demented> At which point, OP and BS should see police and/or a lawyer for a restraining order, or other protective action. 1
NewLeaf512 Posted November 7, 2015 Posted November 7, 2015 Carriages - consider that you're not yearning for your AP, you're yearning for the way you felt having your ego stroked and being the center of attention. Its not her. It's the feeling. When you think of it - you're yearning for your accomplice in breaking your wife's heart. She's not a good person. She doesn't deserve to be yearned for. Put yourself in your wife's position - really follow it. Imagine it was she that cheated and she was yearning for her AP. How would you feel? Hi Katie If the foundation of your above post is that cheating/having an A is wrong and makes the OW "not a good person" it should also follow that the WS is also "not a good person"
NewLeaf512 Posted November 7, 2015 Posted November 7, 2015 One other question for OP and anyone else. OP I have never been a WS so although I understand your words I have not felt your feelings. There also doesn't seem to be much on your BS so you may have to fill in the blanks. Here is what I think you are saying: You were in an A, it ended and you and your BS want to R. Although this is the path you have taken I am not sure why or how BS is feeling. Can you reveal some more info? I may (or may not) be detecting an interesting pattern in the BS and WW who try to R their M's. OW/OM should be completely thrust into NC (I concur but must point out they too are dealing with emotional fall out alone for an A they did not conduct alone) The WS must be completely honest and transparent to BS (I concur) WS must never think about nor have a thought about OM/OW again, (impossible without a frontal lobotomy, cognitive dissonance, or "splitting" WS must work flat out at the R for a meaningful reason (I concur but: not for the kids, for financial reasons, or to save face) BS can bring up the A or OM/OW whenever they like for information, expressing feeling at any point, and sometimes for years and even decades. I don't understand this. Have I got it wrong somewhere?
wmacbride Posted November 7, 2015 Posted November 7, 2015 Hi Katie If the foundation of your above post is that cheating/having an A is wrong and makes the OW "not a good person" it should also follow that the WS is also "not a good person" I don't want to sound rude to you, but when a couple R, the ow becomes a nonentity and even an enemy to them. I know it sounds unfair that an ow is left to fend for herself, but really, how much sympathy would you expect for her from a bs? 3
wmacbride Posted November 7, 2015 Posted November 7, 2015 One other question for OP and anyone else. OP I have never been a WS so although I understand your words I have not felt your feelings. There also doesn't seem to be much on your BS so you may have to fill in the blanks. Here is what I think you are saying: You were in an A, it ended and you and your BS want to R. Although this is the path you have taken I am not sure why or how BS is feeling. Can you reveal some more info? I may (or may not) be detecting an interesting pattern in the BS and WW who try to R their M's. OW/OM should be completely thrust into NC (I concur but must point out they too are dealing with emotional fall out alone for an A they did not conduct alone) The WS must be completely honest and transparent to BS (I concur) WS must never think about nor have a thought about OM/OW again, (impossible without a frontal lobotomy, cognitive dissonance, or "splitting" WS must work flat out at the R for a meaningful reason (I concur but: not for the kids, for financial reasons, or to save face) BS can bring up the A or OM/OW whenever they like for information, expressing feeling at any point, and sometimes for years and even decades. I don't understand this. Have I got it wrong somewhere? To speak to your first point. Yes, the ow has to go it alone, but when any relationship ends, isn't that the usual scenario?The two people involved go their separate ways and don't keep contacting each other over and over for solace For the second point, most bs who have reconciled don't keep bringing it up years or even decades. If they do, it's most often in terms of "this reminds me of the A and it still stings a bit".
NewLeaf512 Posted November 7, 2015 Posted November 7, 2015 I don't want to sound rude to you, but when a couple R, the ow becomes a nonentity and even an enemy to them. I know it sounds unfair that an ow is left to fend for herself, but really, how much sympathy would you expect for her from a bs? I wouldn't expect any. I also suspect BS's rarely get the full truth, which makes R suspect as it seems that should be the foundation of a R. The dialogue on this thread seems to be about if the WS ever has their ex AP cross their mind ECT . Not how much of an enemy an OW is or whatever bollocking should be meted out to OW. In my case ExMM lied and said he was separated, does that make him an enemy too?
NewLeaf512 Posted November 7, 2015 Posted November 7, 2015 To speak to your first point. Yes, the ow has to go it alone, but when any relationship ends, isn't that the usual scenario?The two people involved go their separate ways and don't keep contacting each other over and over for solace For the second point, most bs who have reconciled don't keep bringing it up years or even decades. If they do, it's most often in terms of "this reminds me of the A and it still stings a bit". Wmacbride it seems you may be new to LS. Your last stanza seems a complete departure to about 95% of the BS in this forum
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