Stuck and can't breathe

[Rigby]

Whoops - sorry Faust - meant to quote Minnie. Wife makes more than he does.

[Rigby]

Okay she is aware of the divorce, she has consulted a lawyer and she is moving away. Assuming that all of this is true, what is the problem. Sounds like everything is going according to plan and best of all the wife is even moving to a new location altogether. Sounds like the perfect scenario to me, why are you stressing? You have been waiting for years, why is it that now that you are down to the last year you suddenly feel stuck and like you can't breathe?

 

Guilt. I had a LTA. It was wrong to do, and karma is around the corner.

[Minnie09]

Guilt. I had a LTA. It was wrong to do, and karma is around the corner.

 

But why now? You had 7 years to feel guilty. Is it because now it's become more real? Karma has been around the corner for seven years, and you stayed with him nonetheless. Maybe you're just looking for an excuse - subconsciously - to not make it official?

[Rigby]

But why now? You had 7 years to feel guilty. Is it because now it's become more real? Karma has been around the corner for seven years, and you stayed with him nonetheless. Maybe you're just looking for an excuse - subconsciously - to not make it official?

 

I think that's absolutely right - it is a combo of guilt and fear of what will happen to the kids. Through this forum I've learned that the W deserves to know. I'm ready to take my stones but I don't want my son or his daughters to take them also. The only other way is to not expressly divulge the affair. That is a possibility because as I mentioned I don't see us living together until the kids are out of the house, but it seems on this forum at least that we would only make things even worse by not having some honesty with it all, especially because as Minnie pointed out, the Wife does know he has feelings for me and must at least suspect he has had an A. I don't know.

[Minnie09]

Hmmmmm........I mean, I don't know his W, so I can only guess. She knows you, she knows he's got feelings for you, she still decides to move away for work. She has not been vindictive in the past. D has been discussed. Maybe not the specifics of it, but still. It has been on the table for a while. She's seen a lawyer. There are no discussions about making it work, going to MC, trying harder to have a more fulfilling M. Don't you think that sounds more like she's come to terms with it? Maybe she wants it to end also. She knows there's somebody else. He even told her. How much clearer can it be? And how much clearer do you want it to be? Do you think it will help for him to sit her down and say, "Ok, we need to talk. We are going to D, and as you probably already know, I've been having an A for 7 years with this particular woman XY."

 

I mean, maybe it does help, maybe it's cathartic, but I doubt it's going to be news and/or a big surprise to her.

 

I also don't understand why you're so worried about the kids? I'm sure she's going to try to be the best parent possible, even after a D, just like you and him. She won't have any advantage or a better time or happier kids if she rubs anything in their faces about you and him and whatnot. If she wanted to, she would've done so already.

 

The only thing you MAY want to be worried about is: has he lied to you? Is she NOT considering a move? Has D NEVER been on the table? Has he perhaps misrepresented the conversations he's had with his wife in the past? That's always a possibility, because people don't always speak the truth, and MM especially. You're the best judge when it comes to assessing your R with MM. How close are you? Do you feel you're open and honest with each other? Is he quiet or a talker? Do you have to grill him if you need info? Is he forthcoming? Uncomfortable to talk about difficult times? You know who he is. Use your gut instinct. However, if all you've heard is true, then I don't see that worst case scenario (with kids and you being figuratively "stoned") happening.

[Got it]

My worry is primarily for the kids, and it also comes from reading this forum. If he doesn't leave, it means that I have been duped in a bad way. Deserved way, yes. But reading what other OW have gone through on this forum when they find out they've just been strung along is terrible. The second element is the BW. She doesn't and didn't deserve this. They didn't have an open M, and I feel enormous guilt. I feel like regardless of the circumstances, she deserves to know. So the problem is that I love him, but I fear that love has made me blind, and even if it hasn't and they do D next year, I don't know how this possibly can work. It feels hopeless no matter which way I turn.

 

While it is your, though mainly his, decision for her to know, I am not as much in agreement that one should definitely tell. I divorced and never told my ex husband. I didn't see it as the reason why I divorced, I was planning to do so anyway, I got no "benefits" from the divorce by withholding that information as there was no dependent or financial impact either way, so I choose not to have him take the additional hit to his ego by adding salt to the wound. I understand the gamble it was playing and if he were to find out I would be honest with him but I have not regretted that decision and he has moved on very well, remarried with kids.

 

In my husband's case, his ex wife knows because she found out when he started talking divorce and he was honest with her. That has been a very hostile situation since then that involved the kids, etc. We are years past so the dust has settled but she and I do not interact.

 

I am very happily married to my MM and we are expecting our first child soon. It has been years since the affair (we didn't rush into marriage) and I am madly in love with him. The relationship with the kids is great, the oldest especially is beyond thrilled about the baby. It wasn't an easy road, it took a lot of time and we didn't push anyone, but now things are just really good.

[veryhappy]

Okay hold on a second here! You are digginyour own bitter ending! And you have more chances than most to get a good ending.

 

You learned that his wife deserves to know...according to who? It sounds like she's not clueless. If you go public, she might need to react because of fearing public emberssment. If it's gossip it's different than confirmed news.

 

Given tbe turmoil you are in, I'd suggest stepping back. Let your mm know you'll be available on the other side of divorce, set a time frame together and go home and take a solid and refreshing nap.it's been 7 years, two more don't even matter anymore. Step away from tv affair and restart legitimacy.

 

Sometimes you need to let sleeping dogs sleep, and this sounds like one of those situations. I actually applaud them for staying together for a child who almost died. Dragging it while having third parties involved is where it gets complicated.

[Rigby]

I am being asked better questions and getting better advice than my $7k annual therapy. You guys should go on the road and start charging. I think if I am being honest I am scared he is lying about how she feels about him. There are certain things I know: I know he loves me; I know he's not lying about telling her he is in love with me, I know he has told her on multiple occasions that he doesn't love her; and I know they've had ongoing conversations about D. Oh, and I know he's been sleeping in a separate room for years. Don't ask me how - it would take too long to type - I just know. I never doubted anything at all until lately via experiences in this forum, and then I started to truly fear that he is lying about her feelings for him. I will only find out that truth if she finds out (and is truly devastated and surprised by it, as opposed to what I've been led to believe she will be), and then it's too late to protect the kids. What I am realizing though is that I need to tell him that, and gauge his reaction. I also don't think his W the type to broadcast the affair simply because it would be embarrassing for her, but if the A is devastating to her, and her feelings are different than what he's told me, I wouldn't forgive myself. God I am all over the place, and realizing I've never sorted through my thoughts at this level.

[Lois_Griffin]

Is this wife really that much of a cold fish?

 

I mean, she supposedly knows about you and he's supposedly told her he's in love with you, yet she's NEVER questioned him about an affair or how he happened to fall in love with you? That doesn't even make sense.

 

What shocks me even more is her supposed plan to move across the country - without her children - and fly back on the weekends. What mother does this? You said she and her husband stayed together due to the serious health issue their daughter had, so apparently she was a loving mother at one point and put her kids before her own needs. How has that changed so much that she's now willing to basically desert her kids for a job? Again, that doesn't make sense.

 

It just seems really odd that she'd be willing to leave her own teenage children on their own with their father while she globetrots across the country for some job, and flies home a few times a month for a day or so.

 

That story is really fishy.

[Rigby]

Is this wife really that much of a cold fish?

 

I mean, she supposedly knows about you and he's supposedly told her he's in love with you, yet she's NEVER questioned him about an affair or how he happened to fall in love with you? That doesn't even make sense.

 

What shocks me even more is her supposed plan to move across the country - without her children - and fly back on the weekends. What mother does this? You said she and her husband stayed together due to the serious health issue their daughter had, so apparently she was a loving mother at one point and put her kids before her own needs. How has that changed so much that she's now willing to basically desert her kids for a job? Again, that doesn't make sense.

 

It just seems really odd that she'd be willing to leave her own teenage children on their own with their father while she globetrots across the country for some job, and flies home a few times a month for a day or so.

 

That story is really fishy.

 

This is part of my problem. I can't presume to know the truth about her because I don't know her intimately. But objectively, yes she is extremely career driven, is unaffectionate (some would say "hard"), and is very different from me. Also, as it stands she flies across the country to her current company's headquarters 3-4 days a week, p so I am guessing it would not be a huge change from her perspective to take this new position.

Edited October 15, 2015 by Rigby

[sweet_pea]

This is part of my problem. I can't presume to know the truth about her because I don't know her intimately. But objectively, yes she is extremely career driven, is unaffectionate (some would say "hard"), and is very different from me. Also, as it stands she flies across the country to her current company's headquarters 3-4 days a week, p so I am guessing it would not be a huge change from her perspective to take this new position.

 

So you don't know her intimately but do know these things about her (she's unaffectionate, a cold fish, etc.) how? Just curious.

[Horton]

My worry is primarily for the kids, and it also comes from reading this forum. If he doesn't leave, it means that I have been duped in a bad way. Deserved way, yes. But reading what other OW have gone through on this forum when they find out they've just been strung along is terrible. The second element is the BW. She doesn't and didn't deserve this. They didn't have an open M, and I feel enormous guilt. I feel like regardless of the circumstances, she deserves to know. So the problem is that I love him, but I fear that love has made me blind, and even if it hasn't and they do D next year, I don't know how this possibly can work. It feels hopeless no matter which way I turn.

 

I believe the problem is that your conscience is finally catching up with you. Let's say for the sake of argument that everything goes according to plan. He leaves his wife, you and him successfully deceive his wife, his children and your son about the true nature of your relationship. The two of you get married, move in together and nobody knows the truth except for you and him. Will you really be able to enjoy your new life with him knowing that the people you both care about the most in this world have had the wool pulled over their eyes by your hand?

 

The truth is that your relationship with him is already built on a foundation of lying and cheating. Nothing can ever erase that, not a marriage license nor a fancy church wedding in front of your oblivious family and friends. Even if nobody else knows about the affair, you will know and if your conscience bothers you now I don't see how making things 'official' with him is gonna bring you any relief.

[whatatangledweb]

He told her 7 years ago that he was in love with you. Did he tell her he was having an affair? Has he told her since then that he is in love with you or has he led her to believe that was in the past ?

[Rigby]

He told her 7 years ago that he was in love with you. Did he tell her he was having an affair? Has he told her since then that he is in love with you or has he led her to believe that was in the past ?

 

He did not tell her we were having an affair, but I don't believe she has ever asked. My sense of it is that she doesn't want to know and doesn't want to have the conversation, but that is a question I need to ask him outright.

[Lovemesomehim]

I wonder if his wife knows that the marriage is based upon " a business relationship".

Do yourself a huge favor and find out the truth.

Also, what about his child finding out how the relationship started? After all, she will become your step daughter if he leaves his wife. She will be heart broken to learn that her father lived a lie with her mother, as your son will be heartbroken.

[Popsicle]

It's okay for you to love him, but you should just keep it to yourself, go NC and love him from afar.

[DKT3]

I am being asked better questions and getting better advice than my $7k annual therapy. You guys should go on the road and start charging. I think if I am being honest I am scared he is lying about how she feels about him. There are certain things I know: I know he loves me; I know he's not lying about telling her he is in love with me, I know he has told her on multiple occasions that he doesn't love her; and I know they've had ongoing conversations about D. Oh, and I know he's been sleeping in a separate room for years. Don't ask me how - it would take too long to type - I just know. I never doubted anything at all until lately via experiences in this forum, and then I started to truly fear that he is lying about her feelings for him. I will only find out that truth if she finds out (and is truly devastated and surprised by it, as opposed to what I've been led to believe she will be), and then it's too late to protect the kids. What I am realizing though is that I need to tell him that, and gauge his reaction. I also don't think his W the type to broadcast the affair simply because it would be embarrassing for her, but if the A is devastating to her, and her feelings are different than what he's told me, I wouldn't forgive myself. God I am all over the place, and realizing I've never sorted through my thoughts at this level.

 

To me you sound like you don't deep down believe much of what he is telling you. You seem to be going through a great deal of effort to convince us (moreso yourself) that everything is as he says. Here is the biggest problem I've found with women in your situation, you take one part truth, two parts hope and one part fantasy and mix it up. What does that give you? Whatever the F*CK you want it to. Doesn't alway make it real.

[anika99]

It all just sounds so perfect. Business marriage, wife knows her husband loves you, agreed years ago to sticking it out just for the kids, now she's agreed to divorce next year and has already consulted a lawyer. It's just so ideal and yet it rings false.

 

I guess I've never heard of a spouse being so damn agreeable. "Oh you don't love me but you love Rigby? Okay dear", "Oh you just want to stay until our daughter gets better and the kids get older? Okay dear", "Oh now you want a divorce as soon as our oldest daughter goes to college next year? Okay dear. I will consult a lawyer and move away. I will just obediently accommodate all of your wishes. Stay, go, divorce, I will do whatever you ask at the exact time that you want me to. Heck I won't even ask for the house or my kids. I'll just move far far away and not be a bother to anyone. Whatever I can do to make you happy dear"

 

If he told her years ago that he doesn't love her, loves you and he's planning to divorce her as soon as he can then why all the lies and the secret affair? Why didn't he tell her he was dating and give her the freedom to date as well? Can't say it's because his wife would freak out because it sounds like she agrees to everything he wants. This just doesn't make sense. Why would she agree to stay with her husband for however long he wants her to and then just agree to divorce when he says divorce? What's in that for her?

 

Also you say that both the MM and his wife are very successful in their field. How will he fare financially once his wife is gone? Will he sue her for child support since she'll be moving away without her kids? Will he divorce her immediately upon the oldest child going away to college or will he wait for her to move away?

[Ms. Faust]

He did not tell her we were having an affair, but I don't believe she has ever asked. My sense of it is that she doesn't want to know and doesn't want to have the conversation, but that is a question I need to ask him outright.

 

How do you tell your spouse you love someone else and the spouse doesn't ask if they are having an affair?

 

Doesn't that seem like the obvious follow up to "I am in love with someone else?"

[Popsicle]

To me you sound like you don't deep down believe much of what he is telling you. You seem to be going through a great deal of effort to convince us (moreso yourself) that everything is as he says. Here is the biggest problem I've found with women in your situation, you take one part truth, two parts hope and one part fantasy and mix it up. What does that give you? Whatever the F*CK you want it to. Doesn't alway make it real.

 

Men are just as easily duped as women so get off your high horse.

[lemondrop21]

After 7 years you should be able to ask him any questions you want to, and to be honest with him that the situation is making you a nervous wreck. If he loves you, then he should want to do anything he can to make you as comfortable as possible while he moves through the D at this timeline that he set. He should not be insulted that you need reassurance, "proof" that things are moving forward etc. why wouldn't you need this given how long it's taken for the D to move forward?

 

You could even explain to him that you've done a fair bit of reading about affairs in an effort to prepare yourself for the whole process of his D and an eventual relationship with him, and that so many OW report that their MM does not follow through with D, that it's made you a bit paranoid. Blame us for your questions and "neediness" if you feel you have to (although you shouldn't ).

 

I think that discussion of you cutting off the affair or going NC till September is a bit irrelevant only because after 7 years, I seriously doubt that you will. You'll be too afraid that MM will panic and not be able to follow through with D without knowing that you're there.

 

Best of luck to you and I truly hope all works out for the best, I can feel the pain and anxiety in your writing and 7 years is a heck of a long time to be dragged through something like this.

[Dancewithme]

MM could be telling the truth, and it could be that his marriage is a weird, cold business relationship. But, you've been in it 7 years of your life. That's a long time to have your future on hold. I agree with the poster who said go NC, and love him from afar. Better yet, meet available men, go on dates, hang out with girlfriends, get a new hobby, and try to stop loving him.

 

You are way to invested in the state of their marriage, and your possible future with MM. What if they have decided to try to work things out? You would have wasted 7 years of your life in a no- where relationship. Sure, their are some OW here who ended up with their MM. But was it after waiting 7 years without even a separation on MM's part?

 

I think all of your questions here are a result of that little nagging feeling you have in your subconscious that this thing is not going to work out for you.

[Got it]

MM could be telling the truth, and it could be that his marriage is a weird, cold business relationship. But, you've been in it 7 years of your life. That's a long time to have your future on hold. I agree with the poster who said go NC, and love him from afar. Better yet, meet available men, go on dates, hang out with girlfriends, get a new hobby, and try to stop loving him.

 

You are way to invested in the state of their marriage, and your possible future with MM. What if they have decided to try to work things out? You would have wasted 7 years of your life in a no- where relationship. Sure, their are some OW here who ended up with their MM. But was it after waiting 7 years without even a separation on MM's part?

 

I think all of your questions here are a result of that little nagging feeling you have in your subconscious that this thing is not going to work out for you.

 

My problem with the above is assuming the only reason an OP is in the relations is SOLELY for the next step. So the years during the affair account for nothing and that isn't true. It doesn't mean the years were wasted. In dating, are all times spent dating someone where it doesn't result in marriage indicate wasted? I don't think so.

 

Even if I had not ended up marrying him the time with him was never wasted. There were a lot of great things I got out of the relationship that even when we had broken up I never considered it wasted. May not have gone the way I had hoped but still had value to it.

 

I tend to see, especially those not having been in an affair, as perceiving the time as a black and white, sum total equation. So that the time in the affair is a waste unless maybe one has ilked out a marriage (and even then you are warned about all the bad omens that are likely befalling you or will).

 

An affair can have value as a relationship and be a satisfying one even in the context of an affair. And like any other relationship what was once satisfactory may stop being so as time marches on.

 

Now if the relationship isn't bringing value, if the bad outweighs/outnumbers the good, if one does not feel like they can be themselves, safe, and/or loved then absolutely end the relationship.

 

Whether or not he leaves, well time will tell. OP, be your own best advocate, make sure you aren't trying to "pay things forward" in the hopes of a future gain, and stay focused on today. Evaluate it for what it has been, not what it may be, and make sure you are doing what is in your best interest. It doesn't have to be black and white, even breaking up, and it doesn't mean that there isn't a future. So don't be held hostage by fears, if that is what happening, and choose what will make you most happy.

[Rigby]

My problem with the above is assuming the only reason an OP is in the relations is SOLELY for the next step. So the years during the affair account for nothing and that isn't true. It doesn't mean the years were wasted. In dating, are all times spent dating someone where it doesn't result in marriage indicate wasted? I don't think so.

 

Even if I had not ended up marrying him the time with him was never wasted. There were a lot of great things I got out of the relationship that even when we had broken up I never considered it wasted. May not have gone the way I had hoped but still had value to it.

 

I tend to see, especially those not having been in an affair, as perceiving the time as a black and white, sum total equation. So that the time in the affair is a waste unless maybe one has ilked out a marriage (and even then you are warned about all the bad omens that are likely befalling you or will).

 

An affair can have value as a relationship and be a satisfying one even in the context of an affair. And like any other relationship what was once satisfactory may stop being so as time marches on.

 

Now if the relationship isn't bringing value, if the bad outweighs/outnumbers the good, if one does not feel like they can be themselves, safe, and/or loved then absolutely end the relationship.

 

Whether or not he leaves, well time will tell. OP, be your own best advocate, make sure you aren't trying to "pay things forward" in the hopes of a future gain, and stay focused on today. Evaluate it for what it has been, not what it may be, and make sure you are doing what is in your best interest. It doesn't have to be black and white, even breaking up, and it doesn't mean that there isn't a future. So don't be held hostage by fears, if that is what happening, and choose what will make you most happy.

 

So, again I am finding a lot wisdom in these comments. Especially this last one. MM has given me strength in years where I would have otherwise had none, and no, I won't regret these years if things end now. He's been so good to me, and has loved me well. As things are coming to a head, my biggest concern is for the kids (his and mine) followed by the end result of our actions. His mental health and mine given the hurt we will inflict, and of course the BW.

 

I have told MM about this thread and invited him to look at it. I've addressed my fears and understandings here better than I've ever expressed to him in person. We'll see (a) if he looks at it; and (b) responds to it privately to me it might help. He's an intensely private person and might be pissed by it all. But if he does look at it it might direct the conversations in the right way.

Edited October 16, 2015 by Rigby

[Got it]

 

I have told MM about this thread and invited him to look at it. I've addressed my fears and understandings here better than I've ever expressed to him in person. We'll see (a) if he looks at it; and (b) responds to it privately to me it might help. He's an intensely private person and might be pissed by it all. But if he does look at it it might direct the conversations in the right way.

 

I posted on other boards but did the same during our affair. I let him know what I was posting, that he was free to read, and even comment. It helped to explain things at times better than I could.

 

Sometimes he didn't like other people's comments but I think it was helpful. He knows all about me posting now on LoveShack and will some times read when we discuss different topics. He isn't "on board" on these forums in general as something that interests him but he is open to discussing things And so we will take topics from LS, especially ones tied to affairs and deep dive our thoughts on them and our history, etc.