Torn and don't know . He wants me to leave

[Mr. Lucky]

So it's not like you're pulling the rug out from under him. He KNOWS you're unhappy. Just move out. Good grief.

 

Agreed, there are separate issues here. Absent the affair, would the man you're married to be a better husband or father? Would the anger, outbursts and emotional abuse be any more tolerable?

 

Separate, get settled and make your relationship decisions from there. Added bonus - at that point, it's not cheating...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Jersey born raised]

First thank you for post 41. You at least get the issues in a marriage and adultery are two separate issues.

 

Second if you do divoice what type of settlement and support do you think is fair?

 

Third several posters have question the financial strength of your OW and you side stepped the questions. I have seen posts where the WW wife thinks the OM gets to simply move in the house with the ex picking up the bills.

 

Could you answer inn terms of percents?

[autumnnight]

First thank you for post 41. You at least get the issues in a marriage and adultery are two separate issues.

 

Second if you do divoice what type of settlement and support do you think is fair?

 

Third several posters have question the financial strength of your OW and you side stepped the questions. I have seen posts where the WW wife thinks the OM gets to simply move in the house with the ex picking up the bills.

 

Could you answer inn terms of percents?

 

I am certain that she hasn't "done the math," and there is nothing in her posts to indicate she expects her husband to pay for some love nest

[Jonah]

her husband's anger started before they were even married,

 

As I wrote in the first sentence -> "It is common that the betrayed spouses problems could get worse with an affair going on in the background."

 

Anger, gambling, alcoholism, laziness... you name it... all excuses to have an affair. It is good information for OP to know that her actions will affect her BS's behavior.

 

Your point in that he has issues that contributed to the current situation is valid. That the OP's actions has very likely aggravated his shortcoming is also an important point. For certain... she isn't helping him be a better husband.

 

I'm not saying the OP is right or wrong. I'm just saying that most BSs will wilt under these circumstances and the wayward should expect that... and own it.

[autumnnight]

As I wrote in the first sentence -> "It is common that the betrayed spouses problems could get worse with an affair going on in the background."

 

Anger, gambling, alcoholism, laziness... you name it... all excuses to have an affair. It is good information for OP to know that her actions will affect her BS's behavior.

 

Your point in that he has issues that contributed to the current situation is valid. That the OP's actions has very likely aggravated his shortcoming is also an important point. For certain... she isn't helping him be a better husband.

 

I'm not saying the OP is right or wrong. I'm just saying that most BSs will wilt under these circumstances and the wayward should expect that... and own it.

 

I'll confess I am a little uncomfortable with the idea that a BS is not responsible for their actions.

[Try]

How can a person be content with their life if the husband is so terribly abusive?

Are you exaggerating his abuse to justify your desires?

Time and again we see cheaters remake history to justify their cheating. Standard cheaters script stuff. Why would we expect the OP to be any different?

[Try]

Actually, to most people who do not commit it, it is pretty easy to define: angry namecalling, screaming and shouting, intimidating, belittling, etc.

 

If the affair wasn't on the table I assume you would not be defending this. And like I said: Verbal abuse doesn't justify cheating, but neither does cheating justify verbal abuse.

Are you really saying that finding out that your spouse has been cheating on you does not justify "angry namecalling, screaming and shouting"? Taking off the politically correct glasses, I would guess that this is a common reaction to learning of such a betrayal.

 

Even before the betrayed spouse confirms the cheating, they usually know that something is wrong and start to react to it. In the book "His Needs, Her Needs" we learn that sex and intimacy are two of the top needs of men. We also know that when in affair, sex and intimacy in the marriage is negatively impacted. The husband knows something is wrong and that she is lying to him about it.

[autumnnight]

Are you really saying that finding out that your spouse has been cheating on you does not justify "angry namecalling, screaming and shouting"? Taking off the politically correct glasses, I would guess that this is a common reaction to learning of such a betrayal.

 

Even before the betrayed spouse confirms the cheating, they usually know that something is wrong and start to react to it. In the book "His Needs, Her Needs" we learn that sex and intimacy are two of the top needs of men. We also know that when in affair, sex and intimacy in the marriage is negatively impacted. The husband knows something is wrong and that she is lying to him about it.

 

 

I think it is completely understandable that a BS who just found out will cry, shout, scream, call names, etc. I mean, their world has just been blown apart.

 

Is it "justified"? That is harder to say because the implication is that when one person hurts another, the hurt person is not responsible for their actions or choices. I believe we are all responsible for our choices, even in distress.

 

The question I have is this: if a husband has been verbally and emotionally abusive PRIOR TO an affair....does the affair suddenly erase his responsibility for that abuse?

 

It is troubling how many people would answer yes to that question.

[Mrs. John Adams]

If life with this man....if living with this man...makes you fear for your safety and the safety of your children....then you should remove yourself. It sounds like you will have plenty of support from family and friends.

 

You obviously no longer love him. The reason doesn't matter. There needs to be no justification as to why you have done what you have done.

 

You had choices...you made the wrong ones. Too late to fix it. You cannot undo infidelity.

 

So the only decision I see as the right one is that you leave.

 

You are either afraid of your husband or you aren't. It doesn't go both ways.

This is what has to be addressed first.

 

If you are not afraid...the infidelity issue then has to be dealt with. In fairness to your husband....I see no reason for you to even try to reconcile. You obviously love another man who is free to have a relationship with you.

 

Leave....and quite honestly...you should have thought about the repercussions before you started sleeping with another man. So don't start worrying about your kids now...it's too late...the damage is done.

 

The fact is this...you had a choice to leave your husband....and for years you have built a case against him. If you supplied yourself with a reason to cheat...you also had a reason to leave. You stayed with this terrible person...why? Money

 

Now you tell me ...what does all this say about your character?

[Try]

The question I have is this: if a husband has been verbally and emotionally abusive PRIOR TO an affair....does the affair suddenly erase his responsibility for that abuse?

No it does not, but the real issue is the tendency of cheaters to reinvent history in order to blame shift. Odds are that if the OP's husband was posting here, we would have a very different view of things. He might be talking about how he has worked hard to support his family, and how he honored his wife's request to be a stay at home spouse. From his point of view we would hear about pressure from the wife to keep up with the Jones in spending. We would hear about how she treats him like a utility that is always there to pay the bills, and how she has detached from him emotionally and physically. How she cannot reasonably expect him to give her the lifestyle that she desires and at the same time expect him to spend as much time with the family as someone that cannot afford to give her that lifestyle. That given the choice of cutting back spending, her getting a job, or him continuing to work heavy hours, she always picks him working heavy hours.

 

Cheaters usually hold their spouses to a standard of perfection that they do not hold themselves to. They do this because they know that as a human, their spouse will not be perfect and will thus fail this test. If it is not one thing it would be another. They want them to fail because cheaters think of themselves as basically good people, and accepting blame for the cheating would challenge that self perception. The bottom line is instead of putting her energy into addressing any issues that she might have with her husband, she put her energy into cheated behind his back.

[HereNorThere]

There is definitely a formula to the cheater's blameshifting. Every single time I open one of these threads and the first paragraph or two starts listing all of the spouse's flaws or things they have done wrong, I think to myself "Oh, here we go again."

 

People have fragile egos and no one likes to think of themselves as the bad guy. We all rationalize and justify our actions to some extent, but some people are able to go beyond that into another realm that the rest of us aren't capable of going to.

 

Truly good people don't blame anyone but themselves. They don't have to preface a confession by throwing anyone else under the bus. If their spouse is abusing them, they leave. Under no circumstances can your spouse do something that would justify such an act. That's a personal moral failing independent of what situation you are in.

[Mrs. John Adams]

There is definitely a formula to the cheater's blameshifting. Every single time I open one of these threads and the first paragraph or two starts listing all of the spouse's flaws or things they have done wrong, I think to myself "Oh, here we go again."

 

People have fragile egos and no one likes to think of themselves as the bad guy. We all rationalize and justify our actions to some extent, but some people are able to go beyond that into another realm that the rest of us aren't capable of going to.

 

Truly good people don't blame anyone but themselves. They don't have to preface a confession by throwing anyone else under the bus. If their spouse is abusing them, they leave. Under no circumstances can your spouse do something that would justify such an act. That's a personal moral failing independent of what situation you are in.

 

THIS^^^^^^^^^^^is perfect

[turnera]

If their spouse is abusing them, they leave.

If you are talking about cheaters in general, sure.

 

If you're talking about abused wives, no, no they do NOT usually leave. Most abused women stay with their abusive spouse, lose all shred of self confidence, lose the ability to believe in themselves, and generally have a miserable life. I have seen, maybe 3 times, where an abused wife is picked up on by another man, and she has the affair because, frankly, he's the only GOOD thing that's come her way, and how could doing it be worse than what she's already living?

 

We don't know this OP's truth, so at this point we're just speculating from our own path of history. Not all that helpful.

[HereNorThere]

Most abused women stay with their abusive spouse

 

 

Considering that half of all marriages end in divorce, I highly doubt that this is the case. However, I could be convinced if you have some sort of statistical data that backs up this claim.

 

Do some abused women stay? Absolutely, no doubt. But then again, a lot of those women are usually so badly abused that they would be way too scared to scared to cheat because they're afraid of the beating that comes along with it.

 

I've read OP's post several times and by all accounts her husband had some anger and depression issues and probably could be labeled as jerk, but there was no indication he was beating her or any other kind of severe emotional abuse. Even if he was, that's a completely different issue than cheating. I can't go rob a bank just because I'm mad about getting a parking ticket, ya know? You can't justify doing bad things simply because bad things happen to you.

[turnera]

Considering that half of all marriages end in divorce, I highly doubt that this is the case. However, I could be convinced if you have some sort of statistical data that backs up this claim.

Didn't find one specifically on leaving marriages on a quick search, but this one has a lot of good statistics, including this:

 

98

The percentage of financial abuse that occurs in all domestic violence cases. The number one reason domestic violence survivors stay or return to the abusive relationship is because the abuser controls their money supply, leaving them with no financial resources to break free.

 

30 Shocking Domestic Violence Statistics That Remind Us It's An Epidemic

 

And I didn't justify the cheating. I COUNTERED the claim that she made up the abuse to justify the cheating.

[ShatteredLady]

The fact that she defends her H..."He's NOT a bad guy!" type comments make me doubt that she is rewritting history. Most 'fog' victims blaming their partner don't automatically defend their bad behavior...that is a learnt reaction to ongoing abuse that family & friends disapprove of.

 

I've spent too much time saying "he's usually a lovely man! He's so nice & kind & gentle. It's just.....", "This isnt the 'real' him", "he's stressed, he's guilty, it's NOT who he normally is". "He's not a bad guy he's just depressed at the moment"......

[Try]

I COUNTERED the claim that she made up the abuse to justify the cheating.

The OP never claimed physical abuse, and there is a difference between physical abuse and emotional abuse. When you read the infidelity section you will see that it is common for cheaters to claim some form of emotional abuse or neglect when they reinvent history.

[autumnnight]

The OP never claimed physical abuse, and there is a difference between physical abuse and emotional abuse. When you read the infidelity section you will see that it is common for cheaters to claim some form of emotional abuse or neglect when they reinvent history.

 

Unless LS is populated by a bunch of psychics and mind readers that I don't know about, it's probably best NOT to assume we know everything about someone else's situation just because it triggers our own.

[turnera]

The OP never claimed physical abuse, and there is a difference between physical abuse and emotional abuse. When you read the infidelity section you will see that it is common for cheaters to claim some form of emotional abuse or neglect when they reinvent history.

You're right. Emotional abuse is worse.

 

Funny. And I never claimed physical abuse, just abuse. And the larger group of abused women are never touched physically, but eroded mentally. It's easier to leave a man who hits you; not so easy when he just tells you you're a POS, worthless, nobody else would take you, you should be grateful, it's all your fault...day in and day out.

 

Let's just leave it at that because your argument is pointless.

[autumnnight]

You're right. Emotional abuse is worse.

 

Funny. And I never claimed physical abuse, just abuse. And the larger group of abused women are never touched physically, but eroded mentally. It's easier to leave a man who hits you; not so easy when he just tells you you're a POS, worthless, nobody else would take you, you should be grateful, it's all your fault...day in and day out.

 

Let's just leave it at that because your argument is pointless.

 

I would suspect that their are certain types of men with a certain level of "strong personality" who do not like the idea of verbal/emotional abuse because they tend to commit it. I have seen men who would swear up and down they never abuse their wives reduce her to a mass of jello with calm spoken words and a "look." They would never consider it abuse because they didn't scream of raise a hand. But trust me; it was abuse....it ripped her to shreds right there for everyone to see.

 

You can deduce a lot about how people treat their souses based on how they treat similar people online.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I would suspect that their are certain types of men with a certain level of "strong personality" who do not like the idea of verbal/emotional abuse because they tend to commit it. I have seen men who would swear up and down they never abuse their wives reduce her to a mass of jello with calm spoken words and a "look." They would never consider it abuse because they didn't scream of raise a hand. But trust me; it was abuse....it ripped her to shreds right there for everyone to see.

 

You can deduce a lot about how people treat their souses based on how they treat similar people online.

 

Boy...if this is true there are a lot of unhappy folks based on some of the stuff posted around here.

[autumnnight]

Boy...if this is true there are a lot of unhappy folks based on some of the stuff posted around here.

 

Everyone has bad days or weeks when the stress gets to them and they spew.

 

But having been off and on forums for a decade, there is a difference between a trigger and a consistent pattern of just....vitriol toward certain types of people. For example, a man who is harsh and snarky with every women he posts to probably doesn't treat his wife very well either. And vice versa.

[Furious]

I've been having an affair for nearly 11 months with a (now)single man. He was engaged to his girlfriend of 9 years and broke it off with her shortly after we began an affair. I'm a married mother of two. I don't think my husband is a bad guy but my family and friends would disagree. He has anger issues and people have said for the past few years that they would leave him simply for the way he can sometimes verbally abuse both my children and myself.

 

For the most part he's not a bad guy, but people have witnessed these things and it makes me wonder if perhaps I've been wearing rose colored glasses for the past thirteen years we've been together (high school sweethearts). I'm an incredibly rwalstic person and am content with my life as it is. I'm not happily married by any measure but my husband is an excellent provider and we have a life pretty much anyone could dream of by all outward appearances. Back to the other man...we met about a year and half ago. We were friends but I have always wanted more. However being married and he engaged, was not going to act on it. After about 6 months of platonic friendship we both kind of confessed to the feelings there. and that's when the affair started. And I fell fast. And hard. And so did he. If I could have met him at 17, I would be married to my best friend right now. But that's not reality. Now this is complicated. Probably more so than any other affair.

 

I know his family. I have vacationed with them and he see him 4-5 times a week. He knows my kids and we have taken them so many places with us. How have I managed this without my husband knowing? Because he's never around. He works non stop and my kids and I rarely see him. We haven't even had sex since I began the affair because I have zero attraction to him and just couldn't sleep with the two of them at the same time. I love the other guy. I adore his family, he's so good to me and just a really good man. He never wanted to propose to his ex but felt he owed it to her and this has been confirmed by his family and friends (who don't know I am married) but think I'm separated. He wants to be with me, the whole life together and everything and I feel the same way.

 

We have discussed trust issues and are both totally open to open access to everything but I truthfully trust him implicitly. The thing is this stigma behind leaving one person for another and my giving up my life that I'm so comfortable in and having to start over. I don't know what to do.

 

 

There seems to be a cognitive detachment in your claim your husband is abusive and yet your actions by purposely miss-leading your affair partner's family that your are single and not a married women and at the same time involving your innocent children in your deceit is quite alarming.

 

On the one hand you say your husband is abusive and controlling but if so, how is it you travel and can fake being a single women to your affair partners family and friends.

 

Both you and your OM have shown that deceit is the foundation of your relationship. All's well that ends well as long as it serves your agenda. Maybe, it's a positive and you and OM are very much alike when it comes to core traits.

 

I really don't buy your story about your abusive husband. Your character and ability to deceive is independent of claim to be the victim.

Edited October 16, 2015 by Furious

[Itwasntme]

You're right. Emotional abuse is worse.

 

Funny. And I never claimed physical abuse, just abuse. And the larger group of abused women are never touched physically, but eroded mentally. It's easier to leave a man who hits you; not so easy when he just tells you you're a POS, worthless, nobody else would take you, you should be grateful, it's all your fault...day in and day out.

 

Let's just leave it at that because your argument is pointless.

How is emotional abuse worse then physical? If you had said it's just as worst then I maybe could have agreed but to say it's worse is crazy.

[autumnnight]

How is emotional abuse worse then physical? If you had said it's just as worst bad then I maybe could have agreed but to say it's worse is crazy.

 

It depends. Do you think a physical bruise is worse or better than an emotional scar? Do you think slapping someone is better or worse than repeatedly calling them garbage, belittling them, threatening them?

 

Like I said, I think there is a reason some people do not recognize verbal abuse.