Men taking the lead..?

[BerryLove]

I read an article this evening about how, in order for women to be more alluring to men, they should take a back seat and allow the man to lead in the relationship. I wonder what you all think about this because it got me thinking.

 

It sounds a bit dated to me. Although I've only ever had three relationships and not dated much in between, so what do i know? But I assumed that things were a bit less cave man era like these days.

 

I was going to post a load of quotes from the article but I dont think thats really necessary and you may have read it anyway.

 

I understand that men would want to take the lead in a relationship, but what i'm not quite sure of is why they would be more attractive to women who sit back and just take it... who just let him make all the decisions, fix everything, manage everything.. I thought things had moved on? It sounds almost submissive-like.

 

I'm generalising here, obviously, but I thought that independant women were attractive to men these days?

 

 

My background is that last year I came out of an 8 year relationship where I was always in control and I didnt like that. No matter how many oportunities I gave him to take the reigns, he just wouldnt. Where as now, I'm in a relationship where I feel that he is a bit more in control than I am, and its hard to get used to. It makes me feel a bit unsettled. But mind you, we're still finding our feet so its not really relevant.

Edited October 8, 2015 by BerryLove

[seekingluck]

I like the men to "lead" in many ways. I really figured out that since I "lead" at work and in many aspects of my social life, I like to "follow" in my relationships.

 

It always sets up the wrong dynamic if I try to lead. And boy is it hard not to be the aggressor in the initial phases. Mostly I sort of like to get to the point fast. Once it is clear: yes we like each other, than I am totally game to sit in the passenger seat. I have no patience and that early dance of figuring out where you are going to go!

[Miss Peach]

I suggest you read the books by or download some of the podcasts by Dr. Pat Allen. I really liked her book "Getting to I Do". She has done a ton of research on this topic.

 

Dr. Allen's opinion is that a woman and man needs to choose which will be the masculine and feminine energies in a relationship. She said that the majority of women will want to take the feminine role but not all. She says that deviations from these roles need to be negotiated and agreed to. If both try to lead they will step on each other's toes. If they both try to follow nothing will happen.

 

She also has a lot about the roles rather than being dominant or passive. This like the male role needs to be respected and the female role be cherished. The male role thinks and the female role feels.

 

There is also a blog by Evan Marc Katz and he proposes for strong independent women to let their men lead. He has some interesting opinions.

 

Personally speaking I work in a male-dominated field and have a lot of male friends who like me to lead. I lead a lot. I dislike doing it too much and I lose a lot of the qualities that make me attractive to men that way. My BF did lead but then he tried to get me to chase him. I let him know I was interested but I refused to chase him and put myself in the lead role. He's still chasing and leading and I'm still following. It's been only 5 months but I'm really enjoying things so far.

Edited October 8, 2015 by Miss Peach

[BerryLove]

That's really interesting thank you. Can you give me examples of how he chases and leads, and how you follow?

[carhill]

Back when I was dating, taking the lead was being a man with a plan and offering a lady a menu of choices, not a literal menu but always having the appearance of being creative in options if she declined the initial suggestion. This may have been unique to my demographic because, in general, women could afford to be picky and selective both regarding the man and the menu. Hence, I had to develop the 'Plan Z' style and have ideas in depth and be smooth about handling rejections or else the bin awaited. Very little about getting dates was easy. Heh, in fact none was. Dating, OTOH, wasn't bad at all. It still had its pitfalls and the man needed to have a plan but it wasn't the specter of the maw of defeat I associated with getting dates.

 

Maybe times have changed? Heh

[Michelle ma Belle]

I'm not exactly the put-baby-in-the-corner (Dirty Dancing reference) kind of woman. I'm Italian which means I'm feisty and fiery and I come with a brain and intelligence and opinions.

 

At the same time, I'm a woman who enjoys a nice a balance when it comes to relationships. There are times I love and prefer when my man takes full control and then there are times when I'm the one who takes the lead. It's the best of both worlds this way.

 

I've dated a couple of alpha males who wanted to be 100% in charge of everything all the time and that got old really fast

 

Balance is the key to happiness in all things.

[carhill]

Oh, in the relationship, beyond dating, arena, I've never been involved with a woman who was globally submissive. In fact, I don't think I've ever attempted to date one. Just because a woman is independent and assertive in life doesn't mean she can't require her man to lead in their dating and romantic milieu. I often note that people, mostly guys tend to have linear thinking in this area but I've seen so much of the behavior mixes that I take each form of interaction as unique and don't ascribe generalities to behavior in the ladies I've dated.

 

Hence, they can be take charge as businesswomen and moms, as example, but still be submissive and desire a leader in the love and sex departments. They can 'switch' and many I've known personally do. I was married to one. To me, this continuum of behavior was normal. In a healthy relationship, I believe partners tend to switch off seamlessly in the leading department. It flows and each partner uses their strengths to lead the relationship for the betterment of the whole, the partnership.

[autumnnight]

I tend to be submissive with a rebel/stubborn streak (yeah, it seems contradictory but it's not )

 

When I think of a man taking the lead, I think of this:

 

He is capable of making a decision

He doesn't overthink

He doesn't second-guess himself all the time

He has drive and backbone

He is not afraid to approach me (that does not mean he always HAS to, but if I am doing all the relationship initiating I won't like it)

HE wants ME - hew doesn't play those push/pull keep 'em guessing games

He wants my respect - and acts respectable (cause you really don't have the right to want what you don't live)

He is the "aggressor" in the bedroom (this is probably due to my previous marriage) - I ain't gonna beg for it

 

As far as the bossy, red-pill, here's how it's gonna be, mumbo jumbo...THAT is when the stubborn rebel will come out. I'm not your project, and I'm not some tool to work out your MRA angst or crazy ex wife issues.

[Frank2thepoint]

I need balance. As man I do like to take the initiative and lead, but not always. I do want the woman to do something in the relationship as well. Something like planning a date, for example, let's me know she appreciates me. And no, just because a woman is with me and going along with what I say and do, doesn't mean she appreciates me. She could just like the attention I'm giving her, with not much reciprocated.

 

 

but I thought that independant women were attractive to men these days?

 

Sigh. Many people love throwing that term around without fully understanding what it means. An independent person does not need anyone. They are self-sufficient. Which means they earn their own money and have no need for romantic companionship. Believe it or not, there are people like this. A lot of women like to use this term, and wonder why some men are put off by it. I understand, it's empowering, and that's great. But it sends a conflicting message, especially if the woman is looking for romantic companionship. If a woman wants a relationship, that means she is dependent on another person for that companionship. But that's the scary part that I figure a lot of women don't want to express; dependence. It sounds negative. In actuality, it just makes you human, vulnerable, and relatable.

[RedRobin]

I want the man in my life to be competent, do what he says he will do, be self sufficient, and take the initiative in most things at least half the time or thereabouts.

 

I don't consider that leading. I consider that being a partner. I don't need to be led, nor do I want a follower. In fact, I tend to resent men who claim to need a follower. They strike me as lazy and entitled and incompetent at negotiation. In fact, it was usually only incompetent men who seemed to crave that. The most competent, 'leader' like men I know have strong wives. Not Stepford or submissive.

[todreaminblue]

I like the men to "lead" in many ways. I really figured out that since I "lead" at work and in many aspects of my social life, I like to "follow" in my relationships.

 

It always sets up the wrong dynamic if I try to lead. And boy is it hard not to be the aggressor in the initial phases. Mostly I sort of like to get to the point fast. Once it is clear: yes we like each other, than I am totally game to sit in the passenger seat. I have no patience and that early dance of figuring out where you are going to go!

 

im exactly the same i have to eb dominant in many areas of my life and i like it in a relationship to be on the passenger side for a while and not have to come up with everything......it turns me off a little bit when guys say whatever you want to do you decide ....its like do i have to .......i like a man to show a bit of initiative in the early stages and make plans ....i dont do it to be alluring to guys .....i do it because i get tired of making all the decisions all the time...it is nice to share decision making.... ......deb

[Grumpybutfun]

My wife is my equal partner, and we both play to our strengths in our life together. I was the chaser in our "courtship" as I'm very traditional in liking to pursue and win her favor. She led me on a very merry chase, and made no secret of exactly what was expected to win her. I liked that. She is soft and feminine and we encompass aspects of masculine and feminine roles with the dynamic being equal as we value both the masculine and feminine equally. She is singlehandedly the most capable and independent person I know so I don't need to infantine her or have her submit to my will to feel like a man.

You need to be you....pretending to stroke a man's ego to get him might not work in the future to live authentic lives together. I think people play games and pretend to land a partner, only to be surprised when the facade gets old and the marriage falls apart.

Grumps

[xplosiv]

I believe that men should take the lead. Why? It's natural and in our DNA. We were made to be hunters, who exert themselves on the world... and in the beginning women were the homemakers. I think on a primal level, this is what it comes down to. I don't, however believe that we should be chauvanistic and in a relationship, men should be considerate of their partners. That means playing off eachothers strengths and weaknesses.

[Miss Peach]

I guess I look at it this way... think of ballroom dancing. The men and the women have different roles in the dance. They both contribute to the dance equally but in different ways. If the woman attempts to take the lead they fall apart. If a man can't lead or a woman is is taking his lead they also fall apart of the man has nothing to work with.

 

I am a very independent, strong woman. I work in a male-dominated field and am in a high ranking position. I am able to balance being tough and agreeable in the business world which has given me respect by my peers as well as consistently putting me among the top wage earners in my field. I COULD be a ball buster but I wouldn't WANT that dynamic in my relationships. I would get tired leading at home and in my romantic relationships too.

 

I expect a guy to ask me out. To initiate and plan most of the dates. I like him to pay for the early dates (but it wouldn't be a deal breaker for me). I have no expectations for being taken to fancy restaurants and am perfectly happy for a trip to a park, a hike, etc. I expect a guy to eventually choose and chase me. And later show me love, care, trust, and respect. I also want him to cherish me and my feelings.

 

To get a guy to do this I need to do my role in the dance. I am not changing WHO I am in any way. I just change the way I approach him. I can't talk to him and go after him like I would a male coworker that I'm competing with. I can still tell the guy what my feelings are then he does good/bad things. I can tell him what makes me uncomfortable. I am not in any way a doormat. If he mistreats me I can leave. Being feminine does not have anything to do with being a submissive doormat.

 

Besides Dr. Pat Allen, another good read is to look up what the French call 'La Differernce'. They recognize men and women are different but that women can still be strong, smart, and capable. But women can also be sexy at the same time. We don't have to hide in pant suits. We can wear sexy lingerie. This is part of respecting ourselves.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Miss Peach

[seekingluck]

Sigh. Many people love throwing that term around without fully understanding what it means. An independent person does not need anyone. They are self-sufficient. Which means they earn their own money and have no need for romantic companionship. Believe it or not, there are people like this. A lot of women like to use this term, and wonder why some men are put off by it. I understand, it's empowering, and that's great. But it sends a conflicting message, especially if the woman is looking for romantic companionship. If a woman wants a relationship, that means she is dependent on another person for that companionship. But that's the scary part that I figure a lot of women don't want to express; dependence. It sounds negative. In actuality, it just makes you human, vulnerable, and relatable.

 

I think a little differently on this concept of an independent person.

 

I am independent. This means I am happy with my life as is. I have great friends, and active social life, close relatonships with family and friends and a good career.

 

I am not looking for a partner to "complete my life."

 

I am looking for someone to add to my life. I don't need to be a relationship just to have a companion. I do want icing for the cake that is my life. Cake is awesome on its own, but icing makes it better. But if the only available icing sucks, I can do without.

 

So what is happening now is that people are "pickier." Women are able to work in jobs that allow them to support themselves, so the need to get married is less with "equality.*"

 

Back to my preferences. I like men leading. I am perfectly capable of leading and planning. But for me things like a plan, decisiveness and a vision are all attractive traits for my partner to have and leading the way in the relationship is part of that.

 

*And this is not the time to really discuss that equality isn't intersectional yet and how this has happened differently for women of different ethnic groups.

[seekingluck]

I guess I look at it this way... think of ballroom dancing. The men and the women have different roles in the dance. They both contribute to the dance equally but in different ways. If the woman attempts to take the lead they fall apart. If a man can't lead or a woman is is taking his lead they also fall apart of the man has nothing to work with.

 

I am a very independent, strong woman. I work in a male-dominated field and am in a high ranking position. I am able to balance being tough and agreeable in the business world which has given me respect by my peers as well as consistently putting me among the top wage earners in my field. I COULD be a ball buster but I wouldn't WANT that dynamic in my relationships. I would get tired leading at home and in my romantic relationships too.

 

I expect a guy to ask me out. To initiate and plan most of the dates. I like him to pay for the early dates (but it wouldn't be a deal breaker for me). I have no expectations for being taken to fancy restaurants and am perfectly happy for a trip to a park, a hike, etc. I expect a guy to eventually choose and chase me. And later show me love, care, trust, and respect. I also want him to cherish me and my feelings.

 

To get a guy to do this I need to do my role in the dance. I am not changing WHO I am in any way. I just change the way I approach him. I can't talk to him and go after him like I would a male coworker that I'm competing with. I can still tell the guy what my feelings are then he does good/bad things. I can tell him what makes me uncomfortable. I am not in any way a doormat. If he mistreats me I can leave. Being feminine does not have anything to do with being a submissive doormat.

 

Besides Dr. Pat Allen, another good read is to look up what the French call 'La Differernce'. They recognize men and women are different but that women can still be strong, smart, and capable. But women can also be sexy at the same time. We don't have to hide in pant suits. We can wear sexy lingerie. This is part of respecting ourselves.

 

Ballroom dancing is suck a great example. I remembered the first time I took a class it was really hard for me. I was used to taking the lead. I found that I didn't do well with partners that didn't understand how to lead. The partners I enjoyed were the ones that knew their role, and knew how to send the right signals to get me to follow. It was really subtle, but I found I didn't mesh well with all partners. The ones that were great at leading me became more attractive as well.

[chapter44]

I'm not exactly the put-baby-in-the-corner (Dirty Dancing reference) kind of woman. I'm Italian which means I'm feisty and fiery and I come with a brain and intelligence and opinions.

 

At the same time, I'm a woman who enjoys a nice a balance when it comes to relationships. There are times I love and prefer when my man takes full control and then there are times when I'm the one who takes the lead. It's the best of both worlds this way.

 

I've dated a couple of alpha males who wanted to be 100% in charge of everything all the time and that got old really fast

 

Balance is the key to happiness in all things.

 

 

If I had to guess I would have thought you were Italian which now is confirmed.

 

 

My personality type is definitely much more assertive but I think you are absolutely right there has to be a balance. The key is being secure when you know your partner is better at something than you and letting them run with it. The happiest couples I know have figured out each others strengths and weaknesses and let their significant other balance out their weaknesses.

[Stage5Clinger]

It's probably different for everyone -- but I like women who take control of things like where we're going, what we're eating, what movie we wanna go see (unless I'm really in the mood for something). Don't make me plan out everything jesus christ.

[fitnessfan365]

I think it has more to do with trust and vulnerability. If a woman can lean on her man to take care of her sometimes, it makes him feel masculine and needed. But if she tries to do everything herself, it makes him feel useless in the relationship.

[preraph]

I'm a really strong woman and I have no problem taking the lead on things, but you need to think about it before you do it, and here's why: As a strong person, I don't want a romantic interest who isn't at least that strong in at least some aspect of his character. Now, it may be his strengths don't lie in the most obvious stuff, but maybe he's strongly creative and so I'm in awe. Because I am unafraid to take the lead, of course, I went through a period when I did so, and you know what it got me? It got me dating guys who wern't assertive or aggressive enough for me. You know why? Because on average, what you see is what you get. There's not usually some big surprise hidden once you get to know them that makes a material difference in that way.

 

I can't have any respect for a guy who is afraid to ask me out -- or at least to put himself in my vicinity and act interested and work up to it. And that stuff can transfer to the bedroom as well. There, I like an all-out Blitzkreig -- or at the very least, overwhelming and infectious eagerness. But not every woman does. A very good friend of mine strongly preferred sweet gentle but creative types, in and out of bed.

[BronzeAgeJaeger217]

I believe that men should take the lead. Why? It's natural and in our DNA. We were made to be hunters, who exert themselves on the world... and in the beginning women were the homemakers. I think on a primal level, this is what it comes down to. I don't, however believe that we should be chauvanistic and in a relationship, men should be considerate of their partners. That means playing off eachothers strengths and weaknesses.

 

Ya I often wonder why I never had that hunter instinct

[Els]

There is a HUGE difference between letting a man (especially a man who has already earned your trust) 'take the lead sometimes', and what you describe (let him make all the decisions and manage everything). The latter is frankly just a doormat, not even a 'submissive' - submissives set their own boundaries and make the decision to enter into D/s in the first place.

 

The former involves a strong element of balance and can be great for people who are suited for it. If that isn't you, no biggie. People tend to be compatible with those whose strengths and weaknesses syngergize with theirs. For some this might involve some traditional roles, for others it might not.

[Michelle ma Belle]

There is a HUGE difference between letting a man (especially a man who has already earned your trust) 'take the lead sometimes', and what you describe (let him make all the decisions and manage everything). The latter is frankly just a doormat, not even a 'submissive' - submissives set their own boundaries and make the decision to enter into D/s in the first place.

 

The former involves a strong element of balance and can be great for people who are suited for it. If that isn't you, no biggie. People tend to be compatible with those whose strengths and weaknesses syngergize with theirs. For some this might involve some traditional roles, for others it might not.

 

Excellent observation Elswyth, and bang on.

[BronzeAgeJaeger217]

That's why I think I should look into taking a testosterone boosting supplement

[jen1447]

IMO what modern sensibilities show in relationships is the ability for individuals to exercise behaviors and have preferences, not any sort of trend toward male or female dominance. Whereas in the past, culture definitely dictated and influenced male-dominant relationships. So today we're simply moreso allowed by society to be individuals and practice our preferences and inclinations within the dynamics of our interpersonal relationships. That means any combination's a go and you're not so much answering to societal pressure to be a certain way.

 

As applies to you OP, it sounds like you're a middle of the road person who doesn't want to be pushed around so to speak but also doesn't want to have to wear the pants in the relationship all the time. I think all you need to do to correct course is simply communicate that to your partner and behave accordingly. I wouldn't expect a specific behavior set based on gender alone anymore.

 

I'm def the 'in charge' type, so it takes all kinds.