Frequency and length of infidelity & reconciliation

[nightmare01]

Thank you for your post. You don't mention your reason.

 

Kinda all of the above. Worry about my kids with OM. Not wanting to give up what I worked so hard for (much of it while she was cheating). Some co-dependency issues as well as I defined myself by my marriage.

 

Also. Being betrayed is a really significant blow to a person's self esteem. I actually thought, why would any woman want to be with a man that wasn't good enough to keep his wife from cheating? I think this is why I find the "blaming the BS" line from cheaters to be so insidious; it eats your soul and leaves you hollow and broken.

[NewLeaf512]

Gosh Newleaf what a horrible ride in your M!

Did you mean your exWH? (as opposed to exMM?) Or your exAP who was married unbeknownst to you.

Then a very sad walk up the garden path too! Ugh.

 

It's the addictive behaviours of serial cheaters that blows me away. Is that both your exes "diagnoses" by your estimation?

 

My question to you is are you trying to get an idea of social "norms" re-infidelity? And thereby maybe alter your stance on the subject?

 

I believe we don't know exactly how we will react until a surprise D Day occurs. I used to think that was a crazy notion.

We have our values. Discussed the consequences as a married couple. Done. Set.

But now I think it's mostly true in alot of cases that at least on the 1st experience of infidelity in M (esp with children), we just don't know. Better put, we can't necessarily predict.

 

This is my 2nd marriage experience of infidelity by a WH. My first I left. Attended MC / IC for 2y whilst separated.

The insult was so deep that WH could do THAT when our baby girl was ill.

I had to protect her. Easier to escape - renting. 1 child.

ExWH has been remarried to not his AP for almost 20y. His wife has endured hell. Our DD had been there overnight as a child and the stories of WH being locked out of the house and getting a ladder to break into his own house in the morning. Yeah on an overnight access visit! His three children in the house and he's out all night. My female cousins seeing him out clubbing when he was supposed to be with his own children on other occasions. With OWs and hitting on my cousins! I am so glad I picked up and left.

 

Now this WH. So much time, love, effort. Unbelievable effort to struggle through poverty. Maintain the health of my children esp. I tried to R after my first D Day. It was a horrible time. LS really supported me on every emotional level. Now with D Day Number 2 it means D. The first D Day exposed the last and "only" affair I knew about. The second D Day exposed the previous 4-5y of infidelity. Previous to the last A! Follow? He** I don't sometimes lol. Basically it exposed WH as not only a cheater but a serial cheater. IMO the worst kind. IDK is it? He'd had a vasectomy so it could have been worse IMO had he not but then .... later.

 

We must all have our idea of "deal breaker" but be kind enough to change our minds if we choose. There are no laws saying you must.... after your spouse cheats. It bears weight to attempt to employ rational thinking in one of most difficult emotional times. I've done a lot of research on as many aspects of infidelity as I could since Dec. But then it comes down to two people. Or one in the end on many occasions with D.

 

It's difficult territory to navigate.

 

Lion Heart.

 

 

Hi Lion Heart, Thanks for your post. As for WH, he was my first (I thought but who knows) if I was his. He did become a serial Cheater.

 

 

exMM I initially thought had never strayed before but I found out later from him directly in writing that he had cheated on and off for circa 20 years including when BS was pregnant years before. So Yes he is a serial cheater.

 

 

I don't think my question is so much about norms because now I understand there are different reasons BS choose to stay or leave that are so vast it's impossible to predict. What I do believe although some will disagree is that the person who ends up with the least hurt USUSALLY is the WS id there is a reconciliation.

 

 

I do not really ever want to meet someone again because I think I have lost my ability to trust, the saddest part for me is that I need to have some love in my life after having so very little for such a long time. I will seek other ways like more charity work to help with that.

 

 

One other thing, I think that after the initial fission of the R between exMM and BS wears off, it might be hard to sleep with someone you know has slept with other women over circa 20 years

[Lion Heart]

The emotional experience of infidelity, affairs, R is so wide and varied that it's nowhere near a "one size fits all" mentality by any means. That's why our friends and relatives find it difficult to support me in any meaningful way atm. They are gobsmacked. Yeah just like me but as shatteredlady and I share, within the grief, horror and shock post D Day (s), there is this HUGE OH THATS WHY YOU (this that & everything) FOR YEARS! So many things make sense now! Ofcourse the WH I was M to, denied he ever DID this, that and the other (grrrr) but I have a very well balanced adult child who witnessed so much of WH behaviours. Then a son-in-law and a good friend who met WH at virtually the same time as me. This friend (yeah an actual friend, not the "friend" who sleeps with your husband type lol) this friend is a psychologist. She has known him for 16 years.

 

This feedback for WH from them via me (because they can barely breathe in his direction) is what has made WH wake up somewhat and gallop to therapy in SHEER DESPERATION now. For a GP to.sit in front of you and kindly say "you are extremely mentally ill. You will never be good for anyone unless you receive intensive psychiatric help. I estimate you will ALWAYS need psychiatric and psychological help. I know this because you CLAIM to love Lion Heart and your children. This is not the behaviour of a person claiming to love their wife and children. These mental illnesses are severe in you. You will never be good for yourself or your children if you do not get help and take the medication prescribed."

 

For my children I am somewhat relieved their WF is eagerly willing to get help (entirely against his family's arguments). All my friends think he will not keep attending. I'm sure the "authority in everything" part of his NPD personality and the Defiance part of his ODD will cut in and push him to halt it. But he's full of surprises! LOL. Who knows. It's his life. He can choose whatever he wants. My role as a mother is to observe and alter access according to his behaviours.

 

I supported my eldest DD rights to be represented in court NOT to have to stay overnight at her WFs home. Ofcourse she won that right. It's a shame I've been there b4 but I'm certainly there again. The least I need to do is protect my children. They also know their own minds now! They've dictated the amount of time they want with WF each week and it's only 1-2 hours IF he plans a fun thing to do with them. NOT ever visiting WFs family or friends. Big blow to WF but there it is. He thought they'd want 50/50 custody! Nope. They had a list of why not! Can't argue with that long list. It began with "mum listens to what we need".

 

LH

[Lion Heart]

Newleaf

 

It is sad you feel unable to put yourself back out on the "market" put crudely. I totally get it though! The thought of it makes me sick too tbh.

 

So I know I'm nowhere NEAR ready. I'd say neither are you.

 

I don't think we should change our personalities to date or enter into a relationship but maybe we have alot of healing to do first.

Are you seeing a good IC?

 

I'll tell you what I say to my ICs now. "I'll be open to whatever you say BUT I want to feel ALOT better when I leave this room than when I entered it. I want strategies to USE now and to employ when I leave immediately. I want hope for me and my children. This may be out of your league and I'd respect you if you said you can't help me any further."

 

You present as a very kind (but hurt) person here. There are book titles listed all over LS that have caught my attention. Maybe 1 for you and I is "No More Mr Nice Guy". Substitute Guy for Gal or such.

 

As a previous poster wrote about his concerns about child abuse on his children with OMs should he D. That is a biggie for me too and there aren't the laws to tattoo a P for pedophile on their foreheads yet. No one would know a pedophile. My youngest child is 10yo but I have a grandchild too.

 

I don't think a man on earth would think I was sane with all the restrictions I'd have on any future relationship! Lol. I reckon it would be a full year before I let him hold my hand! A machine beats a ONS imho because you know the sexual health of it most importantly. It won't hurt your children. It won't be a drug addict nor ruin you financially. Yeah its a shame there ARE really nice honest men out there but what's their history if they're single in my age group? I think it would help if they'd been devastated by betrayal of infidelity of a WW.

 

I've met a great Life Coach for the future therapy I want. I need the critical therapy of psychologists to begin with.

 

But I do plan to have a wonderful life. I look at what I DO have that makes my heart sing and I want more happiness. All That doesn't require a partner. There ARE so many things that bring fulfillment outside a relationship and I'm going full throttle into those. I hope you can too.

 

These people who destroy other's lives with their wanton carelessness are NOT OR EVER a SUM OF WHO WE ARE!!!

It upsets me when I feel BSs have had their self esteem flattened. THAT IS SO NOT FAIR! NO!

 

THEIR behaviour is not ours.

WE are not summed up by THEM in any way!

 

Wayward people DO WHAT EVER THEY WANT hence "wayward" as THEIR description NOT ours. I don't blame myself for WH not keeping it in his pants just as I couldn't blame him if I gave myself away. It is MY body and I'm RESPONSIBLE for it.

They were IRRESPONSIBLE with theirs.

 

We have to rise above this. However will we surround ourselves with decent, worthy, good people with sound character if we stay stuck in the WS opinion of us? If it's so misguided. Their opinion of us is really none of our business IMO. WHO cares what they think? WH has no credibility at all to criticize me. He's lost any legs to stand on. Now I know about his craziness for years? I'm done with listening except in matters of child access.

 

Clear as mud. Sorry. 3 cups of tea and brekky for the kids in between!

 

Lion Heart.

[NewLeaf512]

Newleaf

 

It is sad you feel unable to put yourself back out on the "market" put crudely. I totally get it though! The thought of it makes me sick too tbh.

 

So I know I'm nowhere NEAR ready. I'd say neither are you.

 

I don't think we should change our personalities to date or enter into a relationship but maybe we have alot of healing to do first.

Are you seeing a good IC?

 

I'll tell you what I say to my ICs now. "I'll be open to whatever you say BUT I want to feel ALOT better when I leave this room than when I entered it. I want strategies to USE now and to employ when I leave immediately. I want hope for me and my children. This may be out of your league and I'd respect you if you said you can't help me any further."

 

You present as a very kind (but hurt) person here. There are book titles listed all over LS that have caught my attention. Maybe 1 for you and I is "No More Mr Nice Guy". Substitute Guy for Gal or such.

 

As a previous poster wrote about his concerns about child abuse on his children with OMs should he D. That is a biggie for me too and there aren't the laws to tattoo a P for pedophile on their foreheads yet. No one would know a pedophile. My youngest child is 10yo but I have a grandchild too.

 

I don't think a man on earth would think I was sane with all the restrictions I'd have on any future relationship! Lol. I reckon it would be a full year before I let him hold my hand! A machine beats a ONS imho because you know the sexual health of it most importantly. It won't hurt your children. It won't be a drug addict nor ruin you financially. Yeah its a shame there ARE really nice honest men out there but what's their history if they're single in my age group? I think it would help if they'd been devastated by betrayal of infidelity of a WW.

 

I've met a great Life Coach for the future therapy I want. I need the critical therapy of psychologists to begin with.

 

But I do plan to have a wonderful life. I look at what I DO have that makes my heart sing and I want more happiness. All That doesn't require a partner. There ARE so many things that bring fulfillment outside a relationship and I'm going full throttle into those. I hope you can too.

 

These people who destroy other's lives with their wanton carelessness are NOT OR EVER a SUM OF WHO WE ARE!!!

It upsets me when I feel BSs have had their self esteem flattened. THAT IS SO NOT FAIR! NO!

 

THEIR behaviour is not ours.

WE are not summed up by THEM in any way!

 

Wayward people DO WHAT EVER THEY WANT hence "wayward" as THEIR description NOT ours. I don't blame myself for WH not keeping it in his pants just as I couldn't blame him if I gave myself away. It is MY body and I'm RESPONSIBLE for it.

They were IRRESPONSIBLE with theirs.

 

We have to rise above this. However will we surround ourselves with decent, worthy, good people with sound character if we stay stuck in the WS opinion of us? If it's so misguided. Their opinion of us is really none of our business IMO. WHO cares what they think? WH has no credibility at all to criticize me. He's lost any legs to stand on. Now I know about his craziness for years? I'm done with listening except in matters of child access.

 

Clear as mud. Sorry. 3 cups of tea and brekky for the kids in between!

 

Lion Heart.

 

 

Hi LH

 

 

Thanks for the amazing post. Yes absolutely do not let WH say one thing to affect you. F Him.

Thank you for asking after me. I do have an amazing IC that I have been seeing for years, which started out for PTSD and then who I am until the last year plus has been a WTF are you doing to yourself NL and why?!?!

 

 

I think had my situation (like ours) not involving heavy PD issues we maybe could have staunched some of our lives haemorrhaging out into this toxic disaster.

 

 

You are absolutely right I am not ready to date again. I probably never will be. BTW what is dating? I read about it on hear and it frightened me. Having people stare at me on their computers like a virtual shopping experience doesn't appeal to me at all.

 

 

There are so many amazing things I can do with my life, and also for myself.

 

 

I wasn't as lucky as you to have children but I am close to my friends children which helps.

 

 

The title of my book "I have boundaries, you will respect them, and I'm not allowing anyone to wipe their boots on me anymore!"

 

 

The nuttiest thing for me is exIdiot was in IC for months, I cant remember now but I think 8 or 9 months weekly, (don't throw rocks at me). His therapist suggested a specialist therapist who deals only in treating the victims/supply/enabler of BPD and NPD. (Super expensive so I paid for it weekly for 6 months) He finally got it after 3 months, and for the last 3 months up until DDay the therapists although in 2 different locations worked together to try to piece exIdiot together enough to escape, regardless if I was in his life or not, that for his own personal survival, he had to get out of there, but he stayed. One of the things everyone concerned wanted was for BS to go into IC, but she refused. They did make 4 or 5 attempts at MC in the preceding years (pre A), where they MC would suggest IC to her and she immediately would fire them and try to find someone else. She went once for an eval when she was 30 and they diagnosed BPD, didn't believe it, went for another eval, same thing so I suspect that was the reason for no interest in IC.

 

 

In any case, although I do not want exIdiot to come back, after the super Jedi mind- F***ing I took from him, an I'm sorry would have been ace but I know he isn't capable.

 

 

I am also going to find time for my leisure pursuits and do some travelling. I don't do ONS but I have 2 hands and an great imagination, and that plus family, lovely friends and a job and I am golden.

 

 

It's likely I will never recover fully from this (and neither will anyone else) but, I think I dodged a major bullet and it will be proven soon enough.

xx

[NewLeaf512]

Kinda all of the above. Worry about my kids with OM. Not wanting to give up what I worked so hard for (much of it while she was cheating). Some co-dependency issues as well as I defined myself by my marriage.

 

Also. Being betrayed is a really significant blow to a person's self esteem. I actually thought, why would any woman want to be with a man that wasn't good enough to keep his wife from cheating? I think this is why I find the "blaming the BS" line from cheaters to be so insidious; it eats your soul and leaves you hollow and broken.

 

 

 

I am very sorry you went through this

[Lion Heart]

Hi LH

 

 

Thanks for the amazing post. Yes absolutely do not let WH say one thing to affect you. F Him.

Thank you for asking after me. I do have an amazing IC that I have been seeing for years, which started out for PTSD and then who I am until the last year plus has been a WTF are you doing to yourself NL and why?!?!

 

 

I think had my situation (like ours) not involving heavy PD issues we maybe could have staunched some of our lives haemorrhaging out into this toxic disaster.

 

 

You are absolutely right I am not ready to date again. I probably never will be. BTW what is dating? I read about it on hear and it frightened me. Having people stare at me on their computers like a virtual shopping experience doesn't appeal to me at all.

 

 

There are so many amazing things I can do with my life, and also for myself.

 

 

I wasn't as lucky as you to have children but I am close to my friends children which helps.

 

 

The title of my book "I have boundaries, you will respect them, and I'm not allowing anyone to wipe their boots on me anymore!"

 

 

The nuttiest thing for me is exIdiot was in IC for months, I cant remember now but I think 8 or 9 months weekly, (don't throw rocks at me). His therapist suggested a specialist therapist who deals only in treating the victims/supply/enabler of BPD and NPD. (Super expensive so I paid for it weekly for 6 months) He finally got it after 3 months, and for the last 3 months up until DDay the therapists although in 2 different locations worked together to try to piece exIdiot together enough to escape, regardless if I was in his life or not, that for his own personal survival, he had to get out of there, but he stayed. One of the things everyone concerned wanted was for BS to go into IC, but she refused. They did make 4 or 5 attempts at MC in the preceding years (pre A), where they MC would suggest IC to her and she immediately would fire them and try to find someone else. She went once for an eval when she was 30 and they diagnosed BPD, didn't believe it, went for another eval, same thing so I suspect that was the reason for no interest in IC.

 

 

In any case, although I do not want exIdiot to come back, after the super Jedi mind- F***ing I took from him, an I'm sorry would have been ace but I know he isn't capable.

 

 

I am also going to find time for my leisure pursuits and do some travelling. I don't do ONS but I have 2 hands and an great imagination, and that plus family, lovely friends and a job and I am golden.

 

 

It's likely I will never recover fully from this (and neither will anyone else) but, I think I dodged a major bullet and it will be proven soon enough.

xx

 

Newleaf

 

I reckon there are so many bullets we dodge but after ending a relationship with a wayward person we are lucky not to have AIDS, other life threatening illnesses caused through their sexual pursuits. I have a twisted oesophagus through stress though and even though I manage with no pain relief now, it took 6 months off work to get there.

 

WH has severely impeded my ability to work in so many ways. Firstly he wouldn't "let me" go! It was 1y of govt letters and communicating this to already WH (which I didn't know at the time), then 2y of arguing with him. There is so much to just that ridiculousness that I can't believe! Reduce HIS OPPORTUNITY to F*** around the community what??? To FEED the kids?

No Lion Heart. Stay in your cage. There double locked now.

Then the excuse for his vile temper at me was after D Day that I EMASCULATED HIM. Really. He actually emasculated himself. Most of his tax returns were in the minus figures. Now we ALL know why! The mortgage was $30,000 per year. Do the sums.

 

Yeah so after a year at work I was earning almost $100k he stood in my kitchen and said "oh, so it was really all about money... your stress? " yes I could finally afford to feed my children. Plus pay the mortgage down not up and have a camping holiday once a year. What a dumba$$.

 

Alot we avoid when we can and do break free but life ain't a field of roses. Scorched earth an old LS member wrote once. It is for me. But I'm a gardener and greenie. It won't take long after the bush fire for regeneration. There will always be those treasured old trees that died (trust & hope) but this crap isn't about love. Love doesn't die there. I even question if love ever existed there. And if that IS their version of love then they can have it! Lol.

 

Lion Heart.

[RedRobin]

I can't say I ever had any strong feelings about what I would or wouldn't do. For some bizarre reason, I have never worried about infidelity. Never felt it was something to do with me. Always believed it was due to some shortcoming in the cheater. When my H confessed, I was surprised. And angry. But not about the infidelity or even the lying. I think I was more pissed about the unfairness of it.

 

We went to counseling for a year. I think at the time I figured we had nothing to lose. He pretty much dumped the OW right away. It wasn't a long term affair, and he confessed because he felt guilty... Over time I just lost all respect for him. I just kinda felt... There was me... And this guy I was hanging out with, for what? And you know, prior to the affair, my whole life revolved around his. To this day, it scares me a little how fast my feelings can change on a dime. How fast someone I loved so much can become completely irrelevant. Betrayal is one of those triggers for me. It's not even anything I get angry about. It's like a light switch turns off and it's like. Sigh... Goodbye.

 

 

There is one thing it has changed in me though... at the first sign that a guy is disinterested or busy or is taking me for granted, I almost instantly lose interest. I might fight it for a day or two, but I don't really have it in me anymore to 'fight' for a relationship or even stick around. I never chased after my ex either... but I fought for that marriage as much as I've 'fought' for anything... and I wouldn't do that again. If someone I was with seemed interested in someone else, it would be over instantly for me. My fiancée figured that out pretty quick. He was flirting with some girl at work, or she with him, doesn't matter... he wasn't discouraging it... and I dumped him that fast. He spent, oh, a good six months at least winning me back. After which he proposed... and then died a month later. Too ironic.

Edited October 5, 2015 by RedRobin

[Grapesofwrath]

My ex-H was not unfaithful, however I was in a relationship for about a year with someone who was seeing other women the entire time. I caught him a few times, and gave him another chance, only to be chumped again before too long. He lied to all those women about me, as well. We were long-distance and part of me understood that he got lonely when we weren't together, so I didn't give up until it just become obvious that he was remorseless and was going to do whatever he wanted regardless of how it made me feel. He had no compunction about lying to all of us to get what he wanted and felt entitled to have.

 

The real dealbreaker for me was the emotional, mental, and ultimately physical abuse in that relationship. I wonder if those things always go hand-in-hand with infidelity. I don't know if they do.

 

Bottom line for me: If I discover that there has been premeditated deception, I'm done. At this point in life, I demand honesty. If a man I'm seeing wants to see others, then let's talk about it. Then I can decide what I'm willing to participate in, and move on from there.

[chapter44]

I think it has everything to do with the specific relationship and circumstances. My ex once asked me if I believed "once a cheater, always a cheater"? That should have been clue #1. She did cheat with at least 3 different men (that I know of). I found out about all of them at the same time and promptly left. She came back saying she was confused but was now ready to commit to "just us". We gave it a try but when my family member came across her new dating profile I finally learned my lesson for good and haven't spoken to her since. Like they say past behavior is the best indicator of future behavior. It was the craziest time of my life and so happy to be away from it.