I need some help here

[blind_otter]

Originally posted by jmargel

Yes, I am afraid of losing her as anyone would given the circumstances. My concern is her dad & step-mom constantly putting me down in their own little way to encourage Brandy to seek other alternatives. They are the last people who should be giving her advice, but she has no one else to goto.

 

Can I share something personal?

 

My older sisters and I are of mixed race, and my middle sister, L, has been with her husband since they were 14 - so 16 years, now. His parents never liked her much, but they disowned their son when he proposed to my sister. His entire family boycotted the wedding, saying that "if God intended the races to mix, he would have made them that way."

 

For 7 years they had no contact with my sister or her husband. Then she had a baby with blonde hair and blue eyes. They wanted to be part of THAT child's life....my sister actually does everything she can to make the relationship with her in-laws as easy as possible. Kill them with kindness, as they say.

 

You know, might it be possible to cultivate a more positive, less confrontational relationship with her parents? I understand YOUR p.o.v. in this situation, because I never got along with my ex-in-laws. It sucks to be hated for no reason, and that was one of the many things that led to the demise of my marriage.

 

But, you know, "give evil nothing to oppose and it will disappear by itself".... if you give them nothing to rail against, or bitch about to your wife, would that make things easier? It would probably take a lot of effort on your part, which might seem unfair, but would probably help things out in the long run.

 

What her dad did isn't right at all, but you can't change it now. Maybe you can transform it?

[jmargel]

The only way that can be transformed is if Brandy stops letting them in on our marriage. When they ask her how we are doing, she should just say 'really good' and leave it at that. Not to come over there & complain about me. Not to come over and not say anything good about the marriage. She said she doesn't like the friction yet she has created it alot by herself. I don't know what her point is in all of this.

 

Her dad is very unreasonable he has mental problems. I know he has been using this guilt tactic on her that he's sick. He has diabeties but when you smoke 3 packs a day and don't watch what you eat I don't feel any pity for him. I have not expressed that to her, all I tell her is that I hope he gets better.

 

Like BO said, I don't think she KNOWS how to focus on the good qualities of a relationship. All she has seen is bad and that's all that is being pointed out to her by her dad. What's weird is she almost had a 4.0 through college, yet she won't take responsibility for what she's doing or at least see that if she wants to save this marriage then she needs to take some steps in this. I can't do it by myself.

 

This week I'm going to ask her if she'll see a counselor with me. She didn't like the other one, yet she went 20 sessions with her. It was because she was being told things that she didn't want to hear. She only relates to people who agree with her. In those sessions we had she only followed some of the things that were suggested to her. If she would have followed all of them, we would never be here today. Things would have been so much better.

[tokyo]

I can only tell you that throwing a fit no matter how you feel like doing it, won't help you much in this situation. You won't manage with yelling or threatening her dad that her feelings for him will disappear and that she will remember how to be a good wife. And I bet, if you threated to leave, she will let you go, even if she had strong feelings for you, people don't like to be blackmailed. She's not going to give up the rekindled hopes she set up on her dad and go after a man who can't understand that she finally is getting closer to this person who for such a long time did not pay attention to her. This is not nice and fair, but you're not going to change the way she feels by forcing her to stay at home and to feel differently.

[jmargel]

Kooky and I don't. I've told her countless times that I want her to shoot with her dad. That I want her to get close to him. I've told her this way before all this came about when she wasn't going over there. They would call and she would never call back. I would say stuff like 'Why don't you call your dad'? And then she explained how he never wanted to be a part of her life. Hell, he didn't even goto her college graduation last year. When he walked her down the aisle during our wedding there was a picture taken with his face in it and he looked pissed. He's just a very selfish, rude, controlling person. He'll do anything to make himself look good and he'll NEVER admit to being wrong. He's also a racist and has said he has ties to the KKK. So maybe you know what kinda person I am dealing with here.

 

I want her to have a good relationship with her dad so that when the day he does die she can at least have some peace in her life with in regards to what has happened into her past. That she could focus on the good times they had instead of her childhood years.

 

What bothers me is his manulipulation in all of this by trying to include her ex in this. He is purposely trying to lay a pathway down that he knows is going to give me & Brandy problems. He is putting himself into our marriage where it should not be. However Brandy doesn't see it that way right now.

 

I don't want to force her to stay home, I want her to want me included in things. It's a fine line for me to walk where I need to state my wants but not to alienate her to let her think that her dad is right.

 

My god.. I wish parents really understood how they affect a child when they abuse them. For the abuse of that one person it affects 100 more in that person's life. And to me this is continued abuse by him. His way to meddle in our marriage and to not let her make her own choices in life is abuse. That's what has me upset in this. Killing them with kindness won't do anything positive. I guess my only choice is to let this all pass thru. It's going to be a very long summer and just hope that when fall comes she will stand up for me if she wants to continue playing.

 

But it's not even about that in itself. I hope she someday can stand upto them and say 'Jeff is my husband, I love him and you guys need to accept that and treat him better.'

 

*sigh*

[tokyo]

Originally posted by jmargel

What bothers me is his manulipulation in all of this by trying to include her ex in this. He is purposely trying to lay a pathway down that he knows is going to give me & Brandy problems. He is putting himself into our marriage where it should not be. However Brandy doesn't see it that way right now.

If you know she's in love with you, then do you think that her staying close to her ex will change anything? Isn't it more your insecurity that drives you nuts? That she might not love you enough and have the strength and smartness to brush off her ex's approaches for a reconciliation or whatever he has in mind?

[jmargel]

Like I told her part of my insecurity stems from her not really being positive about our marriage. It's what she's been taught. And it's not that I don't trust her, it's that she is fawning over her dad's attention right now and him pushing her ex onto her like this might cause problems for us now & in the future.

 

Try putting yourself into my shoes and really, really imagine your spouse going off with her family doing something with her ex while you are left at home. She won't even tell me what team she is on or where they are playing because she said 'My dad is the captain and doesn't want you to know'. She said that 'He said otherwise you'll come over and create problems'.

 

This is how warped this is. When I told her she needs to trust me in that I won't do this, she says she can't. That's how messed up she is right now.

[swirlingdaisy]

Jmargel,

 

From your history of past posts here, over the years, you've had oodles of problems in your relationship/with your girlfriend/fiancee/now wife. I'm shocked to read you actually went through with things and married her. Seems all of her past issues, and the issues you 2 had as a couple (prior to marriage) were related to her and her ex boyfriends, her disrespect toward you, her telling lies, her remaining in contact with exes (then).......and I see it continues. Did you really think that marriage was going to magically fix the sh*tload of issues you both had for so long? From your countless past posts, she always struck me as a very messed up, insecure diva who got a great deal of validation and satisfaction from continuing connections with exes she knew you had obvious issues with.....and due to her continued selfishness and refusal to respect your feelings, you became quite jealous and insecure and almost a little controlling...but in the end, she was always walking all over you ,and you let her. It seems nothing has changed in all this time. She's still the selfish woman who refuses to compromise, who refuses to put the needs of your relationship before her own needs, who can't seem to break off her ties with exes. She was often threatening to move out way back before you got married....now when she's not getting her own way, she's threatening to move out of your marriage. I believe a couple of years ago, many of us (unfortuntely) predicted that a year or so down the road, you'd marry her and continue to have these same issues. Looks like we were right.

[CurlyIam]

You can't make anyone do anything that they don't want to. Can't make them change, can't do anything but love them.

 

She won't change, Jeff. She won't go with you to councelling sessions, she won't cut her dad out of her life and you can't make her. Can you live with it?

[jmargel]

She had contact with her ex a couple of times. When we became a couple I told her that I would let her deal with that end of things the way she sees fit. Of course he tried to get her back, but I trusted her completely. When the few times she would call him, she would tell me. One night in a club his "friends" thought that I didn't know and gave me that info. I told them off, saying everytime she called she told me and it wasn't because she wanted him back it was because she just had a good heart. She knew him for 8 years. I was ok with that.

 

Last year around this time she went to a bar with a female friend. Her ex was there. Needless to say the a**h*** got drunk and his friends left him. She took him back to his house. Yes I was pissed but I know nothing went on because when she didn't come home I called her mom, got directions to his house and went there. She was in the car talking to him. I was extremely pissed at her. She just mentioned she talked to him for awhile and nothing bad came out of it in terms of her & me.

 

We got married and 2 months later she went to talk to him. At that point I told her it's either him or the marriage. I was done with this. I'm not doing this anymore. She stayed and said she was not going to contact him again. And she hasn't. I don't think she had any desire to as well. During those times while she talked to him, the one time when I was friends w/ her dad I called him up. He took the approach of 'Well, we'll go find him and beat the **** out of him'. I told him no, that we weren't going to do that. He was upset that she met up with him.

 

Now her dad & step-mom are all for it. She doesn't see a problem with this so she is either lying to me in what her intentions are, or she truly just wants to spend time with her dad. The more I think about this the more I get upset. Like I said before I don't know how much I am going to handle. God I wish I was a fly on the wall and could see for myself what was really going on.

 

The only relief I got was when my co-worker told me. He said that those two were not even sitting at the same table and the only time she talked to him was when she need advice on a pool shot. If that's all that is going on, then fine.. I'm ok with that. However I think slowly over time these conversations are going to turn more from shooting pool into something more. He has nothing to lose. So it's me having to trust her but it's very hard. I would think it would be hard for anybody.

[tokyo]

I didn't know that this has been going on for such a long time as swirlingdaisy said.

 

She might be in a comfort zone already and not give a sh*t, because you always give in. You have put yourself in a really tough situation, solving the Gordian know would be easier. I'd try the really nice approach as I have suggested earlier and if it doesn't work at all, then maybe she really is too selfish or too messed up to handle a marriage and the question will be if you want to put up with this for the rest of your life, because changes come slow and only if the other person wants to.

[jmargel]

I know Kooky, I need to follow your advice. I gave up on my ex-fiancee when I was with her. I didn't know how to handle the things inside me so I just ignored her. Always did my own thing and often she would goto bed alone. I never cheated on her but I felt attacked by her all the time, I got defensive and things turned worse. The only way to not walk on eggshells with her was to just let her be.

 

That made her feel abandoned, depressed, etc.. I did not know she felt that way.

 

I don't want to do the same thing to Brandy. However like you said I've given into alot of things with her. However I have a tendency to keep reminding myself on the good things about her. How much I would miss if she wasn't in my life. For example this past xmas I really didn't want much at all. She would ask me and only once in jest I said I'd love to have another German Shepherd. But I told her it was way too expensive, and we already had two dogs. I had a German Shep. when she moved in and she never liked big dogs to start with. She has a pekenignese.

 

Well she's never the type to like surprises so she told me she got me a braclet for xmas which I appreciated. However xmas eve she was on the phone w/ someone and she said she needed to goto the store. Two hours later she came back with the most beautiful puppy I've seen. I later found out it cost her a fortune, she's still paying on it. One of the reasons why she's working a second job. Everytime I look at him it reminds me of how much my wife does love me.

 

Like I said before it's not all bad. I'm not making excuses or justifying anything. If it was all bad, I would have never married her. It's just that she has made some poor choices and to me just recently has made some. Personally if I were in her shoes I don't know what I would do. I would probably still play but then also let them know I would like my wife there. If she can only do that, it would make things so much easier. I'm just hoping that she will go with me to see a counselor. However like you said before I can't make her do anything.

[swirlingdaisy]

So because she bought you a dog, she's all right and worth enduring more years of this crap and drama?

 

Your issues are longstanding, J, and they continue. You are a doormat who makes excuses for her. You used to excuse her immature behavior by explaining that she had a bad childhood/relationship with her dad, and had a history of abusive relationships. "Excuses" for disrespectful behavior only go so far. You 2 were in counselling years ago yet your issues as a couple persist. Have you ever asked yourself why? Is part of the reason you've never had much of a backbone is because it's been such a charge to have such a great looking woman and you just can't give that up? I just can't for the life of me understand why a seemingly bright man would marry a woman who had (and continues to have) such issues..........the writing was on the wall for so long, and I guess all the advice you received here was for nothing because you married her after all...and here you are, in the same boat ........... with a woman who doesn't respect your feelings, who doesn't put you and your feelings first in her life............you don't trust her, you let her call all the shots and you just keep enabling her to behave so immaturely. I can't imagine a husband being in your situation and 'accepting' the fact that your wife plays pool at a place you don't even know ...that you're not "allowed" to go there, all because her Dad says you can't. Grab a backbone, man. Who is her husband, him or you? Why aren't you putting her father in his place and making it clear that you will not accept him trying to drive a wedge between you and your wife? Why do you just sit back and take so much crap? If you keep doing the same things over and over again, how do you expect a different outcome? You can't.

 

Please, whatever you do, don't bring any children into this longstanding dysfunctional relationship..........

[jmargel]

Daisy it's not because she bought me a dog. I was using that as a reference in that she does have a caring side to her. I agree she has been acting very selfish and very disrespectful towards me. That is what I am extremely upset about. This has NOTHING to do with her looks. My god, I have more class than that.

 

As I said before something is going to happen this summer. I don't know what it will be or when. However I already feel at the point that she is taking my love for granted. Whatever her reasons for doing this, I don't know but what I do know is that they need to stop. I want to give her a legitimate chance for her to wake up and straighten out her issues before divorcing. The only thing I can do right now is tell her how I feel. If I give her an ultamatium then she'll walk feeling like it's all my fault. Nothing will get accomplished there.

 

Does it hurt that this is happening? God yes. By me tolerating this right now make it my fault or make me deserve this pain? I don't think so. However like in any marriage that is having problems it will eventually get to an ultamatium.

 

Right now no one else has even talked to her about this except my mom. If she will at least let her friends/co-workers, mother or counselor talk to her and if she's able to listen then maybe there is hope. If she doesn't then it just shows she doesn't love me enough to make this work. I am letting her make that choice, I won't let her play the victim here. I'm not going down that way if it happens.

[jmargel]

Well nothing much to report yesterday. I told her I was going out, that I'm not staying around the house all night. She said she understood. I was leaving before she was and she asked if I wanted to kiss her. I just looked up at her. So she said fine & walked away.

 

I had to go upstairs to get my dog, I was going to take him out for a little then go out & try to keep my mind off things. I went upstairs and she looked at me. I kissed her & said 'be good, have fun'. 'I love you'. She said it back & then I left. I had to bite my tongue extremely hard not to say anything else.

 

I talked to her mom a little bit last night. She asked Brandy 'Isn't this uncomfortable for Jeff in what you are doing?'. She said that Brandy didn't really reply to it. She said that Brandy knows it's wrong and she just wants to sweep it under the rug. That's her way of not dealing w/ the situation.

 

There was a local bar down the street, I was there for about an hour until 11pm. She came home at 10:30. All I asked her if she won & had a good time, she said yes. Wasn't very talkative. She didn't ask where I was at and I didn't tell her. I figured if she wanted to know she could ask. All she mentioned was that her dad was sick, w/ his diabetes he couldn't see well & lost all his matches. I won't say anything there.. Just that Karma has a way of it's own.

 

Didn't talk too much this morning, told her I was leaving for work & she said 'Ok'. No 'I love you, etc..'. However, she's not the type to say it first alot. I didn't say it to her either.

 

I was suprised she came home at 10:30. Figured it would be another 12:30-1am thing. This is tearing me up inside and I have to make sure I don't analyze every little thing she says or does, that'll just drive me more insane than I already am. This is hard and I hope no one ever has to go through this. Part of me feels cheated. I just have to try to keep any wandering thoughts out of my head. If anything will cause more problems between us, it will be that.

[whichwayisup]

Hey I think you handling this situation as you are now (being more laid back) is going to pay off J. I know it's crushing you inside - but it will make a huge impact on her. Remember, she likes drama and you're not giving her any at all right now by not reacting or asking her about the Pool games. Sooner or later this will play in her head and then she'll WANT to talk about it all and hopefully even see things more from where you're coming from.

 

All she mentioned was that her dad was sick, w/ his diabetes he couldn't see well & lost all his matches. I won't say anything there.. Just that Karma has a way of it's own.

 

I agree 100%. Karma has a mind of it's own.

[jmargel]

It is hard. She was quiet last night. I think maybe it was because I actually came home after her. Everytime she came home I would be here waiting, things like going out with friends or when she gets home from work on the weekends.

 

I remember when we first started dating, I came down to see her. Her friend came over and those two wanted to go out. I said fine but that I was going to head out myself too. She didn't like that it said it made her worry. That she felt better knowing I was here waiting for her. I told her back then I wasn't going to do that and definetly not now.

 

Yes it hurts, especially when I goto a place and they usually see us together. I get asked questions on where is she? Then I get questions about how the marriage is going. It's hard to be in this spot. We both have off Monday and I asked her if she wanted to do something with me. I was actually surprised when she said yes. Normally she would say something like 'I don't know', etc.. Then it would be a moment type thing, depending if her dad calls or not. I'm sure he'll be trying to set something up with her that day, I just hope she feels though she wants to spend time with me, not because she has to.

 

The only way to win at these head games is to not play them. I keep reminding myself I have to be strong in this. Her mom told me that Brandy would never put up with me doing this to her. I would agree too. It's like some people don't know how much pain they are inflicting on someone until they feel it for themselves.

[whichwayisup]

The only way to win at these head games is to not play them. I keep reminding myself I have to be strong in this. Her mom told me that Brandy would never put up with me doing this to her. I would agree too. It's like some people don't know how much pain they are inflicting on someone until they feel it for themselves.

 

Oh yeah EXACTLY...And as much as this is killing ya inside by NOT playing her game - You are hurting her by just going on with what you gotta do and focus on her less. That, my friend, will be felt by her big time. Then and only then maybe she will see how good she has it at home and what an incredible husband she has who loves her more than anything else in this world.

[Bubbles]

jmagel,

 

Maybe.......just maybe.......if you pay little or NO attention to the fact that she is doing what she is doing......she'll drop it on her own because she see's that she is not getting a "charge" out of you?

 

bubbles

[jmargel]

I doubt she'll drop it. I don't believe she initally did it to get a charge out of me. I know she wanted to spend time with her dad, she is worried about his health . However her knowing her ex would be on the team, I don't think it bothered her too much (I really hope it wasn't an extra incentive for her to join). My co-worker who plays on a league asked me what team she was on. You know how embrassing it is to tell him you don't know? He told me that he'll find out for me. I didn't ask that, he just volunteered to get that info.

 

My intentions aren't to hurt her by being cold, it's to show her how I feel. That and to wake her up some to see what she has taken for granted. I don't know if it's going to do any good. There was a book I bought about a month ago (a relationship book) and she asked me to read it to her. I read the first two chapters and alot of what it said was right. About how when you get into a relationship you can do two things once the puppy dog loves wears off:

 

1) Deal with your past issues with the help of your partner. Once you deal with them you let go of alot of the baggage that would have otherwise consumed and destroyed your new relationship.

 

2) Ignore it, pretend you are starting over new and face the harsh consequences that the new relationship is in for a very difficult time due to these past issues not being dealt with.

 

I'm gonna see if she'll read the book more or at least let me read it to her some. She has to at least give me something to work with. I won't badger her but I hope she realizes how important this really is so we can move onto better things together.

[blind_otter]

Originally posted by jmargel

There was a book I bought about a month ago (a relationship book) and she asked me to read it to her. I read the first two chapters and alot of what it said was right. About how when you get into a relationship you can do two things once the puppy dog loves wears off:

 

1) Deal with your past issues with the help of your partner. Once you deal with them you let go of alot of the baggage that would have otherwise consumed and destroyed your new relationship.

 

2) Ignore it, pretend you are starting over new and face the harsh consequences that the new relationship is in for a very difficult time due to these past issues not being dealt with.

 

I'm gonna see if she'll read the book more or at least let me read it to her some. She has to at least give me something to work with. I won't badger her but I hope she realizes how important this really is so we can move onto better things together.

 

You have to understand though - the motivation needs to come from HER. Otherwise all the therapy and self-help books in the world won't do a lick of good.

 

Like I am back in therapy twice a week. I left the session yesterday literally shaking, I was shaking for hours. It wore off when I spoke with my boyfriend on the phone, and I slept well, but I resumed shaking, less intense and less noticeable, but still constant, today. If I were not so determined to deal with my issues so I don't sabotage my relationship, I would cancel my next visit. But I won't. Because I want to fix things, not just to build a healthy relationship with my BF, but to help ME, finally.

 

It took a long time and a failed marriage and an abusive relationship, for me to realize this. But I am certain that your wife need to realize this on her own.

[jmargel]

I know she needs to realize this on her own. That's the hardest part in this. She doesn't think she needs it. She thinks I'm the crazy one. If there was someone or something that could just nudge her to think 'Well maybe.. could it be something with me?'

 

That's what I don't know how to do. If I don't try in suttle ways she's going to end up like her dad. I don't want her living a life of misery deep inside her soul. She puts on an excellent front at times but when she lashes out, it's at the closest person, me.

 

I seen it in my ex-fiancee.. She treated me bad, never got the therapy she needed after she left. Married my now ex-best friend. They are in the middle of a divorce. From what he told my parents she mistreated him too. (big surprise).

 

I think the only way that might wake her up to somethings is if she talked to others who have experienced abuse and neglect to the degree she has. It's something she can relate to. Otherwise I'm totally stuck.

[Bubbles]

You know something? I can relate to how you feel about the ex being there.......that would be areally tough one to handle.......but the talking behind your back to your family members? That's intollerable!

 

I still say stick to your guns, do not ask her ANYTHING! pertaining to her pool games, her father......what time she will be home......nothing! Ask her how her day was and if she is feeling good today all the regular day-time things but when it comes to this pool playing thingie? Ignore it like it's not even happening.

 

1) You have to prove to her that you trust her by leaving her alone

2) You also need to show a lack of interest in things/activities that do not have a positive result on your marriage

[Bubbles]

You know something? I can relate to how you feel about the ex being there.......that would be areally tough one to handle.......but the talking behind your back to your family members? That's intollerable! and so is her Father stating that you are not welcome to join them? Absolutly disgusting behavior!!!

 

I still say stick to your guns, do not ask her ANYTHING! pertaining to her pool games, her father......what time she will be home......nothing! Ask her how her day was and if she is feeling good today all the regular day-time things but when it comes to this pool playing thingie? Ignore it like it's not even happening and if she tries to discuss it?........ignore her comments.

 

1) You have to prove to her that you trust her by leaving her alone

2) You also need to show a lack of interest in things/activities that do not have a positive result on your marriage

3) You should stop conversing with her family on THIS issue.....they already know too much

 

Unfortunatly she is going to do what she wants to do. Ignore her until this gets resolved (by quitting and spending time with her father in other ways that do not include her ex or things that could possibly include you too) or she WANTS to talk because she can't take the silence any-more.

 

 

Sorry jmargel.....but this sounds like a pi$$ing contest now.

 

bubbles

[blind_otter]

 

I did the same thing she is doing - to my exhusband. I feel immense guilt about it now, because he was in most ways (besides alcoholism) a good man. And he was like you, he tried very hard to help me help myself.

 

The funny thing is my BF is supportive in a different way. He told me, when I first said my Mom was concerned and wanted me to call my therapist about stuff I was talking to her about, that only I can say if I need to go, and don't let anyone sway my thoughts as only I know what's best for me. But the thing is I know my problem is that I sabotage my relationships, and I have a few failed ones that could have been good had I not so strenuously pushed the men I was involved with away.

 

I can honestly say I don't know what you can do besides what you are already doing, to show her that she needs to do this. I think in many ways there have been people keeping her from hitting rock bottom, so she doesn't see the need as clearly as an outsider would. It hasn't gotten bed enough, I guess, for the consequences to be severe enough to force her to look at herself. Other people can't make you do it. Wake up calls work only when the person is ready to wake up...

 

I just hate to see you hurting, JM. I don't want to see this much struggling for you, you are a good man.

[Bubbles]

Yes, jmagel.......you ARE a good man!

 

Don't ever forget that!

 

All the women here at LoveShack have a thing for you...........you know that right? tee, hee, hee!

 

 

bubbles