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things have been going downhill, but last night about put me over

notdeadyet

By notdeadyet
in Marriage and Life Partnerships

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Mr. Lucky Established Member

Mr. Lucky

Posted
Posted

Based on my own experience, there can be a bit of human nature at work.

 

When my wife was LD during the "change" (boy, what an accurately descriptive name!), infidelity was my first inclination. After all, I was such a hunk of high-level animal sexual magnetism, what partner of mine could lose interest unless her heart (and other parts) had been stolen by another?

 

Since that wasn't the case in my marriage, it's possible your wife's Channing Tatum example may be true. Hope you get the answers - and they lead to solutions - you're looking for...

 

Mr. Lucky

oldshirt Established Member

oldshirt

Posted
Posted (edited)
Based on my own experience, there can be a bit of human nature at work.

 

When my wife was LD during the "change" (boy, what an accurately descriptive name!), infidelity was my first inclination. After all, I was such a hunk of high-level animal sexual magnetism, what partner of mine could lose interest unless her heart (and other parts) had been stolen by another?

 

Since that wasn't the case in my marriage, it's possible your wife's Channing Tatum example may be true. Hope you get the answers - and they lead to solutions - you're looking for...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

It is possible her Channing Tatum example is true. When she said that a part believed that she at least was believing it when she said it.

 

The events of Sat night made me question all of that however.

 

But here's the rub, which is really a worst case scenario? Which is really the worse option?

 

Yes it would truly suck if she falls for someone else and runs off and has hot porno sex with them while I sit home.

 

But is it really any better if I am sitting at home with her there and she truly is asexual and our sexlife is for all practical purposes dead?

 

At least if she falls for someone else, I am released from any obligations and can move with with my own life. Yes I will be heartbroken and upset, but at least i will know where I stand and can carry on.

 

If she's just done with sexuality and our sexlife is over, then I have to decide whether to suck it up and have lemonade on the porch for the next 30 years or whether to try to salvage a handful more years of being a sexual man and hoping I can find a younger woman that still has some zest for life.

 

That is why I came up with the screen name of Notdeadyet for my ghost account. I still feel full of life and I still want to have passion, intimacy and sexuality in my life.

 

Having her fall for another man would suck. But having her be sexually dead isnt a much better option if not even worse.

 

And if she does still have some mojo

in her, maybe I can get in better shape and spruce myself up and rekindle some interest in me. But if even Channing Tatum can't get her motor running, then I'll never stand a chance.

Edited by oldshirt
Dolfin80 Established Member

Dolfin80

Posted
Posted
....in fact I honestly do not believe there is anyone else presently or in the past.

 

I'm just wondering if she has an interest in going there. She has claimed that even if Channing Tatum (her favorite celebrity hunk) were in bed with her, she wouldn't feel any differently towards him. But her actions with the neighbors the other night told a whole different story.

 

I just need to rule out a 3rd party before deciding how to tackle the other issues or not.

 

I go a bit crazy when drunk flirt with guys, have fun. Behave differently then how I would behave sober. I've had sex once in 3 years. Im kinda asexual because I've tried relationships before but I only felt like sex every few months or even years.

oldshirt Established Member

oldshirt

Posted
Posted
I go a bit crazy when drunk flirt with guys, have fun. Behave differently then how I would behave sober. I've had sex once in 3 years. Im kinda asexual because I've tried relationships before but I only felt like sex every few months or even years.

 

I get that, and I really don't have a problem with her getting out and having some fun and doing some harmless flirting. I do that too myself........BIG TIME.

 

My issue with the other night is she hasn't shown any real sexual desire for me in probably a year or more and virtually none over the several months. And then sat night she was dirty dancing and grinding on one neighbor and flirting up and playing Jr high sex games with other neighbors and was reluctant to go home with me and then turned her back to me in bed when we got home.

 

That's my beef.

 

If she is laying me like tile and showing me good love, she can have all the extra guys she wants.

 

But when she's giving me the cold shoulder and partying it up with other dudes and makes it clear I am the unwanted guest, that's a problem.

hudson701 Established Member

hudson701

Posted
Posted

Have you heard of the rational male? Red pill ideology? I think it will be good for you to take a look. Work on yourself, raise your value, withdraw emotionally and put yourself out there. That will re-ignite her desire for you. Remember, genuine, unrestricted REAL desire cannot be negotiated. It's all about the feellzzz with women. The innate. The subconscious. Tap into that, understand it, manipulate it and you will get her back.

oldshirt Established Member

oldshirt

Posted
Posted
Have you heard of the rational male? Red pill ideology? I think it will be good for you to take a look. Work on yourself, raise your value, withdraw emotionally and put yourself out there. That will re-ignite her desire for you. Remember, genuine, unrestricted REAL desire cannot be negotiated. It's all about the feellzzz with women. The innate. The subconscious. Tap into that, understand it, manipulate it and you will get her back.

 

That stuff can help assuming a couple things. One is that the woman in question is healthy, fertile and has normal hormonal levels and balance.

 

And assuming she is not involved with and full of dopamine for someone else.

 

You can take red pills until they are coming out your ears and you can have six pack abs so hard you can crack eggs on them, but if a woman is in love with someone else or if her hormone levels have simply dried up, it ain't gonna matter.

 

That alpha/beta red pill stuff can work on a specific band of people that had an initial strong attraction in the beginning of the relationship and over time just became fat and frumpy and bogged down with bills and puking kids and started to take each other for granted and lost some of the excitement but still have a foundation to their relationship.

 

It does not work if there are medical/hormonal/medication issues.

 

And it does not work if there is an active involvement with a 3rd party.

 

Those things have to be addressed and corrected before any of the red pill stuff can have any effect.

 

People that go all "alpha" on menopausal women get their throats slit in their sleep.

Mr. Lucky Established Member

Mr. Lucky

Posted
Posted (edited)
There's serious problems going on and why are you afraid to get honest with her?

 

She's being [mean] to you while being completely inappropriate with other men!!!!

 

You should have a problem with this [language redacted]

 

But you didn't - and now you look even weaker than before.

 

Stand up and say something dude! She's disrespecting you and you aren't doing anything!

 

There's no question she acted inappropriately. But I think her flirting/dancing was not about sex, it was about need. And rather than a hook-up, she was looking for approval and validation.

 

A woman's loss of fertility and desire is no less life-changing than a man's loss of virility. Both spouses are in a tough situation here and to make it good guy/bad guy oversimplifies the issues involved...

 

Mr. Lucky

Edited by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Quote edited
  • Like 2
xxoo Established Member

xxoo

Posted
Posted

 

Even though I haven't talked to her yet, I can give you a pretty accurate dialogue of how it would go. This is based off of the times we have tried to talk about things in the past. Here is how it would look.

 

 

Me - "I was hoping we could have came home and had some special time together the other night on your birthday. I was kind of disappointed that you would rather hang out with some neighbors we really don't even know until the middle of the night rather than come home with me. And I am not comfortable with how much you were flirting and bantering with those other men."

 

 

Her - "Oh so here we go again. It's always about the sex for you isn't it" I can't do anything right and it's never enough for you. It's always about you isn't it. I can't hang out and get to know the people that live on our street because you want to have sex. "

 

 

I am paraphrasing and condensing of course, but that is exactly how it would go.

 

On her birthday, you saw her light up and lighten up. You saw the girl you married and love. You saw that she's still in there, just not feeling that way toward you these days.

 

What if you approach it like that? Tell her how you've missed the playful, flirty girl you married, and how you saw her come out on her birthday. Ask her why she doesn't come out for you. Get to the heart of the question. Make it about you wanting MORE of that playful girl, and not criticizing the playful girl. Make it about watching her be light and joyful, not about sex. The sex come from feeling light and joyful and playful.

  • Like 4
xxoo Established Member

xxoo

Posted
Posted

 

I'm the dissatisfied party here. I'm the one with the beef. Her only complaint is my restlessness and dissatisfaction with her. If I could be perfectly happy living as roommates, she would be happy as a clam.

 

But I can't do roommates. So it's kind of on me to decide what to do and how to proceed. I am working on coming up with a plan on what to do from here. .

 

No, she isn't and wouldn't be happy as a clam. She'd be happy to not be suffering through sex she doesn't. But happy is how you saw her on her birthday. Life, and maybe be marriage, has drained the life right out of her.

 

I disagree that it's on you to decide how to proceed. Get her involved in selecting activities for the two of you to do together (not bedroom stuff). Active stuff. Encourage her to find her zest and playful spirit again. But let her lead the way. She really needs to feel that rush with you.

  • Like 2
oldshirt Established Member

oldshirt

Posted
Posted
No, she isn't and wouldn't be happy as a clam. She'd be happy to not be suffering through sex she doesn't. But happy is how you saw her on her birthday. Life, and maybe be marriage, has drained the life right out of her.

 

I disagree that it's on you to decide how to proceed. Get her involved in selecting activities for the two of you to do together (not bedroom stuff). Active stuff. Encourage her to find her zest and playful spirit again. But let her lead the way. She really needs to feel that rush with you.

 

I think I get what you are saying but if she "suffering through sex" and marriage has "drained the life out of her," then why bother at all?

 

But the reason I say it's on me about what to do is she claims everything is fine, she just has no mojo anymore. I am the one with the complaints.

 

As long as I mow the yard, keep the cars running and help around he house and haul kids to their stuff, she is fine. I am the one that wants more. I am the one with the grievance.

 

My ultimate long term objective is a rich and full life that includes some passion and intimacy. My objective is not necessarily to remain married at all costs.

 

I see it like this -

 

- If it's menopause/hormonal, there are likely accommodations and adjustments that can be made to keep peace in the valley and for life to go on.

 

- If she's just not into me any more or is a relationship issue,I might be able to chance some things up and make it better for her. Or I may not be able to and we'd have to cross that bridge when we get to it.

 

- If she does still have some mojo but it is for someone else but not for me, then I see no point and it would be time to move on.

 

Again, she would be good as long as I keep doing the chores. It's me that needs more and if there is someone else or if she wants to find someone else, there is no way I can live a sexless life around the house while she gets it on with others. That just simply ain't happening.

autumnnight Established Member

autumnnight

Posted
Posted

Oldshirt it hurts to see you going through this because you are a good man :(

 

I am going through "the change" right now. I'm not in your wife's situation, but I know that there is a part of me mourning the loss of "those years," feeling...invisible? Blah? I think many women go through this weirdo funk.

 

And while I have always been high drive, right now I don't even open the bottom nightstand drawer anymore. It's just....too tiring and too...sad? Not a big deal for me because there's no one to have sex with. But if someone like ME is having this "eh, who cares" phase about sex, then what does the typical woman feel, ya know?

 

Her flirting is a problem. I know some people say no biggie, but if you aren't flirting with your spouse, flirting with others should be a no-go. That is something that made you very uncomfortable and you should let her know.

 

I may be projecting, but my gut says no affair, though she may be vulnerable. I think she's hormonal and unhappy, and that really IS something SHE has to take the reins on.

 

I'll say this though, as a woman "of that age," I wholly disagree with the "show that bitch who's boss" advice. For me, in this phase of life, as much as I like so-called alpha males, somebody who tries to treat me "like something on their shoe" and tell me "how it's gonna be" is gonna get a black eye....and then I'll go off and cry brokenheartedly by myself.

  • Like 2
xxoo Established Member

xxoo

Posted
Posted
I think I get what you are saying but if she "suffering through sex" and marriage has "drained the life out of her," then why bother at all?

 

Because that can possibly be changed.

 

If you two, together, could get the fun and life back in the marriage (outside the bedroom) the sex will be fun for her again.

 

What has happened to the playfulness and discovery in your relationship? My H and I are a few years younger, married about the same length of time, have kids around the same ages. I know first hand how life and drudgery can get in the way of having fun together. It's that having fun together that promotes the feelings of being in love after all these years. The lightness I feel when we laugh together.

 

Do you laugh together? With the kids? In the car, around the dinner table, at restaurants?

 

Is it worth it to you to try?

  • Like 1
ShatteredLady Established Member

ShatteredLady

Posted
Posted

Have you told your W what I posted about seeing a proper hormonal specialist?

 

Your response worried me. I understand the pain & frustrations that you're going through but you gave the impression that you were going to withhold sound medical advise because of your own insecurities. :(

 

I thought, as a woman, if there was something wrong in the bedroom my only options were GP or OBGYN. They don't do complete work-ups. If a little testosterone & some other cream could solve this problem for BOTH of you why not start there?

 

Getting drunk & flirting isn't about sex drive....

oldshirt Established Member

oldshirt

Posted
Posted
There's no question she acted inappropriately. But I think her flirting/dancing was not about sex, it was about need. And rather than a hook-up, she was looking for approval and validation.

 

A woman's loss of fertility and desire is no less life-changing than a man's loss of virility. Both spouses are in a tough situation here and to make it good guy/bad guy oversimplifies the issues involved...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

This is a possibility of what was taking place the other night perhaps it is all that it was.

 

However the fact that she has been having rapidly decreasing interest in me is what was setting off my alarm bells. I would've been OK with it if things were good between us. But the fact things are not good between us is what set off. the alarms and has made me question everything.

oldshirt Established Member

oldshirt

Posted
Posted

 

I may be projecting, but my gut says no affair, though she may be vulnerable.

 

this is my thoughts as well. I have never had any evidence of her ever straying. However the other night my gut was screaming that if I left her alone, something inappropriate would've happened. She may not have had actual sex with anyone, but something may have occurred that would've been been distasteful in the neighborhood.

 

 

 

I'll say this though, as a woman "of that age," I wholly disagree with the "show that bitch who's boss" advice. For me, in this phase of life, as much as I like so-called alpha males, somebody who tries to treat me "like something on their shoe" and tell me "how it's gonna be" is gonna get a black eye....and then I'll go off and cry brokenheartedly by myself.

 

my Mamma didn't raise no fools. I just simply know better than to try that with a menopausal woman. As I said in a post above, my goal here is to live a rich and full life. Not turn up downstream in the river.

 

This ultimately going to be about boundaries for me. If there is something I can't live with, I'm going to move on to something else. I'm not going to impose anything on her or try to change who or what she is.

 

Responses in bold above.

oldshirt Established Member

oldshirt

Posted
Posted
Have you told your W what I posted about seeing a proper hormonal specialist?

 

i haven't said a word about the other night yet. I wanted to get info and advice here first and wanted my anger and hurt die down so I am not coming at it from an emotional standpoint. We have addressed the hormonal issue a number of times over the years and she always gets defensive and angry at some point. No matter how much I soften it, she sees it as me wanting her to go on medication so I can get more sex.

 

 

Your response worried me. I understand the pain & frustrations that you're going through but you gave the impression that you were going to withhold sound medical advise because of your own insecurities. :(

 

i am not withholding anything. we are both healthcare professionals and She knows fully well how to access the therapy she wants.

 

My rationale for not pushing any hormonal therapy at this time is I don't know if this is even about her hormonal levels or just a loss of attraction for me or a desire to hook up with someone else. If she has the hots for someone else, the last thing I want to do is turbo charge her hormones.

 

I thought, as a woman, if there was something wrong in the bedroom my only options were GP or OBGYN. They don't do complete work-ups. If a little testosterone & some other cream could solve this problem for BOTH of you why not start there?

 

I'm all for that. But she has to be the one to want it and to make it happen.

 

 

Getting drunk & flirting isn't about sex drive....

 

 

 

I'm not so sure about that. She seemed horny and wanting to party the other night. Just not with me.

 

Responses in bold above.

xxoo Established Member

xxoo

Posted
Posted

You're hurt and angry with her. I have little doubt that her dismissal of your desires is rooted in hurt and anger toward you.

 

This is fixable, but not if you both stay stubbornly in hurt and anger. The fix is taking down the walls and being vulnerable to each other again. That's where the passion lies.

autumnnight Established Member

autumnnight

Posted
Posted

Oldshirt, you are one of the men on here I respect the most.

 

Here is what I would toss out based on my own womany-ness and just my own experience with the very personal and intimate issue of sexual refusal.

 

1. She needs some boundary help. She is a woman going through a life change, who has likely been in an emotional rut of two, and her flirty, slightly tipsy self was apparently a big hit. I don't want to be overly dramatic....but she needs to nip that in the bud NOW. When a changing, hormonal, over 35 year old woman suddenly discovers that other people (see men) find her engaging and entertaining, it can be dangerous. That is why I think she needs to know how uncomfortable that made you. It's easier not to fall off a cliff when you are fifteen yards behind the fence than when you are hanging onto the branch just over the edge, if ya know what I mean.

 

2. It could be worth trying to reignite some spark, make her "feel like a natural woman" etc. We need that stuff when are bodies are trying to tell us our sexy days are done. BUT....it is not up to you to singlehandedly "make her want sex." Drive or no drive, the fact that she loves you and made vows to you mean she needs to put forth effort as well. Low drive people don't like this, but when you marry someone, you ARE promising to meet their need for intimacy. Period.

 

This might be one of those "phases" we women go through that drive men crazy. Try to hand in there.

Mr. Lucky Established Member

Mr. Lucky

Posted
Posted

I don't minimize the discouragement you feel and the dilemma you face. My wife and I have discussed that we were actually fortunate to both have issues - her struggles with menopause and my cardiac disease - at roughly the same time. As a result, we were were able to support each other without the spectre of a disgruntled spouse in the wings. As part of recovery, I had to grasp how different her needs had become, not an easy task for a knucklehead like me. Had she not been patient, who knows what might have happened...

 

Mr. Lucky

  • Like 1
oldshirt Established Member

oldshirt

Posted
Posted
You're hurt and angry with her. I have little doubt that her dismissal of your desires is rooted in hurt and anger toward you.

 

This is fixable, but not if you both stay stubbornly in hurt and anger. The fix is taking down the walls and being vulnerable to each other again. That's where the passion lies.

 

Most of my hurt and anger from last week has died down. The whole reason for me posting this is to get input on going forward and not hold on to hurt and anger.

 

For her to tear down walls though is a major thing. The worst thing in the world to her is to address personal issues. She can talk about kid and house issues, but anything having to do with herself and she shuts down instantly.

 

She is also one of the most passive aggressive people I've ever met. It's even a running joke about how she stews over issues.

 

She'd rather have root canal than talk about something that's honked her off.

  • Like 1
Sastrugi Member

Sastrugi

Posted
Posted
Most of my hurt and anger from last week has died down. The whole reason for me posting this is to get input on going forward and not hold on to hurt and anger.

 

For her to tear down walls though is a major thing. The worst thing in the world to her is to address personal issues. She can talk about kid and house issues, but anything having to do with herself and she shuts down instantly.

 

She is also one of the most passive aggressive people I've ever met. It's even a running joke about how she stews over issues.

 

She'd rather have root canal than talk about something that's honked her off.

 

You are either married to my wife or her twin sister... to a "T".

I sure can relate to your post. Sorry you have to go through this. I, like other posters have really appreciated your advice in the past. So I hope I can help a little.

 

Oldshirt, you seem really passive ( aggressive) about this situation. Since you guys have done the MC route in the past, you probable have developed a method for discussing the hard stuff.

 

 

Now is that time to dust off your method ( we use a certain phrase to signal its time for a heart to heart.) As others have said, please reset your boundaries with your wife. I read your story and like you believe your wife would have gone Wayward if you were not present.

 

Also I think you should note to your wife that you saw her "game face" on and you were really hurt that you can no longer do that for her. Instead you noticed she was gaming for someone else.

 

 

BTW - was she targeting any one in particular or just throwing out a broad net?

 

At least get the discussion going, even if it is in bits an pieces.

 

All the best,

S.

sandylee1 Established Member

sandylee1

Posted
Posted

I think she wants some excitement....Some romancing and seduction. After a while you take each other for granted don't try anything new and stick to routine.

 

She probably wants you to treat her like she is your everything and pay her attention and shower her with compliments.

 

In showing your appreciation of her, even if giving her a back rub or massage, do it without the expectation of sex. Otherwise it will seem as though that's your motivation for being nice.

 

She may want to try something new ,but not know how to suggest it , without you feeling it's a criticism or an indication that she's not satisfied with your sex life.

toolforgrowth Established Member

toolforgrowth

Posted
Posted
I think she wants some excitement....Some romancing and seduction. After a while you take each other for granted don't try anything new and stick to routine.

 

She probably wants you to treat her like she is your everything and pay her attention and shower her with compliments.

 

In showing your appreciation of her, even if giving her a back rub or massage, do it without the expectation of sex. Otherwise it will seem as though that's your motivation for being nice.

 

She may want to try something new ,but not know how to suggest it , without you feeling it's a criticism or an indication that she's not satisfied with your sex life.

 

This won't work. I did all of that, and my ex wife still ended up cheating.

 

The OP cannot reward bad behavior on his wife's part. That makes him a doormat.

 

She needs to assess and work on her issues. If I were the OP, I'd start detaching. She needs consequences, not showering praise for disrespecting him.

oldshirt Established Member

oldshirt

Posted
Posted

Responses in bold below

 

 

Oldshirt, you seem really passive ( aggressive) about this situation. Since you guys have done the MC route in the past, you probable have developed a method for discussing the hard stuff.

 

yeah my method of discussing the hard stuff is to mention it then duck and cover and run for safety LOL

 

but all kidding aside, I have taken a step back with this situation. Normally I do put it out there. The reason I've held back this time is for starters I have no evidence of anything, it's all gut instinct and my gut could be wrong. I wanted to get input here first.

 

We are going to have people over to our house this weekend and there is one thing I'm going to bring up from last weekend, that I haven't mentioned here yet, and see how that goes and see if that segways into a discussion about more.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also I think you should note to your wife that you saw her "game face" on and you were really hurt that you can no longer do that for her. Instead you noticed she was gaming for someone else.

 

I'm not sure how to address that yet since I'm just going on gut instinct.

 

 

BTW - was she targeting any one in particular or just throwing out a broad net?

 

broad net.

 

.

autumnnight Established Member

autumnnight

Posted
Posted
This won't work. I did all of that, and my ex wife still ended up cheating.

 

The OP cannot reward bad behavior on his wife's part. That makes him a doormat.

 

She needs to assess and work on her issues. If I were the OP, I'd start detaching. She needs consequences, not showering praise for disrespecting him.

 

Honestly, I think the balanced solution lies somewhere in between "woo her into your bed" and "make the bitch pay."

 

This was one drunken night. Yeah, it should be addressed, but doing the 180 over a birthday evening is a bit......much. So is doing the jump through hoops to ear sex routine.

 

I think honest conversation and loving behavior are the most normal, what offline people do, bet.

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