Thegameoflife Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 So why is he hiding it and lying about it if it's so wonderful? Oh, because it's hurtful to the relationship! That's right! He could be protecting her from her own insecurities. You're assuming that he is choosing porn over sex. From what she said, he watched porn once in two weeks, while she wasn't even home. Not exactly a porn addict. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Curdie Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Can you guys just stop with the insinuation that op doesn't have the right to draw this boundary in her own relationship? She has every right to. If she doesn't want to spend her life with a man who jerks off to porn then that is what she should do. She is not wrong for having drawn that boundary. Now she just has to decide if she's going to stick to it or bury her feelings and wants for a jerk of a bf who lies and gaslights and won't communicate with her. Personally, I will never let any man who objectifies women in that manner touch me. And yes, porn objectifies the actors regardless of whether or not the actors consent to the objectification. What makes porn acceptable and not cheating in our society is that you never experience the actors' humanity. Most people balk at paid video sex chatting because the interaction reminds us that the actor is actually a human being and not a walking sex toy. The end product is not all that different than a porn video though. The client is just playing director while jerking off. It's nothing more than highly personalized, tailor made porn. And yet most people have a problem with it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
TX-SC Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Can you guys just stop with the insinuation that op doesn't have the right to draw this boundary in her own relationship? She has every right to. If she doesn't want to spend her life with a man who jerks off to porn then that is what she should do. She is not wrong for having drawn that boundary. Now she just has to decide if she's going to stick to it or bury her feelings and wants for a jerk of a bf who lies and gaslights and won't communicate with her. Personally, I will never let any man who objectifies women in that manner touch me. And yes, porn objectifies the actors regardless of whether or not the actors consent to the objectification. What makes porn acceptable and not cheating in our society is that you never experience the actors' humanity. Most people balk at paid video sex chatting because the interaction reminds us that the actor is actually a human being and not a walking sex toy. The end product is not all that different than a porn video though. The client is just playing director while jerking off. It's nothing more than highly personalized, tailor made porn. And yet most people have a problem with it. Certainly any person can set their own boundaries. Just as a man could refuse to date any woman that uses a vibrator. Or, any woman who masterbate at all. It would be a stupid boundary to set, but it's his right to do so. Same for her. If she refuses to date anyone who looks at porn, more power to her. There is plenty of homemade porn out there that doesn't objectify the woman. It's just a man and woman, often married, having sex for the thrill of others watching. Lying is certainly an issue. He should be truthful. Then, if she draws a line in the sand, he can make that decision about leaving or staying. Link to post Share on other sites
ShatteredLady Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 When I first met my H I was FAR more liberal than him. His strong (anti) opinions on porn kind of changed my views. I was pretty feminist, got the whole degradation of women thing but also thought that some (few, as I get older) women find stripping, participating in porn etc liberating. Some feel VERY STRONGLY about pornography. I have my own soap box subjects. If the OP feels passionately about this that's her prerogative. I believe that some subjects are important enough to highlight a fundamental difference of views that make a relationship untenable. For my H his new found pleasure in porn was mixed with his EA & change of behavior 'fog', 'insanity', how ever you want to describe it. I don't have an issue with porn. I have an issue with my H who voiced his opinions against it watching porn. To be completely honest I find it a turn on but everyone is an individual with their own opinions. If she thinks it's a no-go then he should respect her wishes, particularly because it's (at least) symptomatic of their dying sex life. It IS an issue if it's an issue to her!! Her self image, his porn use, is such a chicken, egg situation & only she knows what's going on there. He's lying, hiding, descieving & I'm sure we all agree that's NOT conducive to a healthy relationship. She is entitled to her opinions & feelings. A loving partner will respect that. Porn is a HUGE issue if a person chooses that interactive form of entertainment over his relationship & the emotional security of his partner. Link to post Share on other sites
Dolfin80 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Im female and none of my boyfriends have asked me to stop masterbating over porn. One gave me his porn videos once as he thought id like them. I enjoyed them. I then had another relationship (a few years later) and moved in with my boyfriend. I had the porn (CDs and magazines) in a box. He looked in the box and saw them but didnt make a big deal about it. I never know anyone to care about the other persons porn collection, i just share it with the person if they wanted to look at it. Link to post Share on other sites
ShatteredLady Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 ... Just out of interest. If you met a guy that you were REALLY falling for & he was very opposed to your collection would you consider dumping it for him? I'm supposing he has a well thought out arguement to explain his dislike. Is there a genre of porn that would be a big NO! For you? Have you had long term partners who don't mind you playing but don't share? ....just arn't interested in joining you? Or even watching? Do you have favorites that tie in with fantasies that you watch repeatedly or are you frequently looking for something new? You TRULY don't have to even consider answering this! It's just I'm interested & I've never met a woman who's so confident in her little wooden box before!! Have you given a great amount of thought to analysing your masterbatory fantasies? What porn & toys you're attracted to? In an interesting psychological way? Anyway, HI! I completely get where you're coming from Link to post Share on other sites
Dolfin80 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 (edited) ... Just out of interest. If you met a guy that you were REALLY falling for & he was very opposed to your collection would you consider dumping it for him? I'm supposing he has a well thought out arguement to explain his dislike. Is there a genre of porn that would be a big NO! For you? Have you had long term partners who don't mind you playing but don't share? ....just arn't interested in joining you? Or even watching? Do you have favorites that tie in with fantasies that you watch repeatedly or are you frequently looking for something new? You TRULY don't have to even consider answering this! It's just I'm interested & I've never met a woman who's so confident in her little wooden box before!! Have you given a great amount of thought to analysing your masterbatory fantasies? What porn & toys you're attracted to? In an interesting psychological way? Anyway, HI! I completely get where you're coming from I left that collection at my ex's house when we separated. It was back in the dial up Internet days where it used to cost $50 to view porn. So it was much cheaper to buy a DVD for $30. Since wifi and cable has come in, magazines and DVDs are redundant. I've never met any men that oppose to women masterbation. If one did I'd don't think I'd be comfortable around that. Masterbation is healthy. I don't like illegal porn. I find beastiality nauseous. I saw it at the Sex Museum in Amsterdam. Also at that museum which I found interesting was the very first pornography pictures ever taken, it was in the 1700 or 1800's. I masterbate alone, so no partner participates. I usually stick with my fav porn, I don't usually venture out into diff things. I watch normal porn and don't use toys. I have toys that my ex bought me but I've only pulled them out of the box twice. If you jump over to the sex thread, there are plenty of women on there that use porn to masterbate. Maybe start a thread up there to see what others are doing? I thought everyone watched porn........clearly i was wrong Edited September 16, 2015 by Dolfin80 Link to post Share on other sites
ShatteredLady Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 I always assumed that everyone masterbates but only a percentage use porn & even less toys. Don't know! The sex museum is fascinating & I COMPLETELY agree with you. Ugh! When it comes to animals I found the less extreme in the museum actually the more disturbing! I think it's the lactating women, motherly thing that grossed me out most for some reason. Link to post Share on other sites
Got it Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 I didn't realize porn was such a big deal either. My husband looks at porn, I will look at porn, read erotica, etc. Sometimes just "rubbing one out" is all you need so I have zero issues of it's presence in my relationship. I also have quite a collection of toys as well, alas they are recently gathering dust, that are hidden in a drawer. We have had some fun times. But everyone has the right to draw whatever perimeters the two parties find mutually agreeable. I would use this as a talking point, not a hitting point, and discuss with her husband about it. He may not be bought in on the porn thing so was hiding/lying about it. And the OP needs to address her self esteem issues as well. That was present far before the porn discovery and will definitely impact a relationship. Link to post Share on other sites
TrustedthenBusted Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 So why is he hiding it and lying about it if it's so wonderful? Oh, because it's hurtful to the relationship! That's right! I never said it was wonderful. ( although it is ) I'm just recognizing that it's totally ubiquitous, always has been, and always will be. To me, that screams "human nature" more than anything else. Hell, go to The Louvre.... naked chicks from 2000 years ago all over the place! If a woman wants to set this as a boundary or a dealbreaker, that is her right. And if she wants to scour the globe looking for men who never view porn, she is certainly free to give that a shot too. I'd start in 3rd world countries with no internet service though....just to make it easier to find one of those four men. OR.... and just hear me out... she could recognize that this is not necessarily harmful to their relationship, and may even be boosting their own sex life a little. Just maybe..... Link to post Share on other sites
Curdie Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Certainly any person can set their own boundaries. Just as a man could refuse to date any woman that uses a vibrator. Or, any woman who masterbate at all. It would be a stupid boundary to set, but it's his right to do so. Same for her. If she refuses to date anyone who looks at porn, more power to her. There is plenty of homemade porn out there that doesn't objectify the woman. It's just a man and woman, often married, having sex for the thrill of others watching. Lying is certainly an issue. He should be truthful. Then, if she draws a line in the sand, he can make that decision about leaving or staying. Once again, consent doesn't mean it's not objectification. When you watch that married couple have sex on video you are purposefully avoiding acknowledging their humanity. Would you be ok with your monogamous partner sitting in the same room watching that couple have sex and masturbating to it? Most people that I know would answer no, whether they watch porn or not. Why? Because if you're just watching a video that married couple is no more than two moving bodies that sexually arouse you. If you're physically in their presence it gets a bit harder not to think of them as people. I'm glad you agree that she has the right to set boundaries that she's comfortable with, since that's the heart of the issue here. Your feelings and my feelings about porn don't matter when it comes to her relationship. Only her feelings and her partner's matter. It really irks me when a woman sets this boundary and people immediately jump to telling her why her thoughts and feelings are invalid. More often than not it's because they have unresolved issues with it and feel the need to defend their actions to both society and themselves. Link to post Share on other sites
TrustedthenBusted Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Hi, Funny how the type of porn is knee high boots girls. Exactly what he has a thing for! I'd stop on the way home and pick up some knee high boots. Seriously... what have you got to lose? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
TX-SC Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Once again, consent doesn't mean it's not objectification. When you watch that married couple have sex on video you are purposefully avoiding acknowledging their humanity. Would you be ok with your monogamous partner sitting in the same room watching that couple have sex and masturbating to it? Most people that I know would answer no, whether they watch porn or not. Why? Because if you're just watching a video that married couple is no more than two moving bodies that sexually arouse you. If you're physically in their presence it gets a bit harder not to think of them as people. I'm glad you agree that she has the right to set boundaries that she's comfortable with, since that's the heart of the issue here. Your feelings and my feelings about porn don't matter when it comes to her relationship. Only her feelings and her partner's matter. It really irks me when a woman sets this boundary and people immediately jump to telling her why her thoughts and feelings are invalid. More often than not it's because they have unresolved issues with it and feel the need to defend their actions to both sociey and themselves. Studies I have seen indicate that men are much more visually stimulated than women are. Where women generally prefer/need physical touch to become aroused (not always of course), men are often turned on sexually by just seeing something sexy. That may be one reason why porn is usually tailored to men. If a couple want to share their sex on screen, I see no issue with masterbating to it. You can't write this off as "would you do it if they were in the room". Porn is fantasy only. Of course there is more nudity and direct sex in porn, but it's really no different than somebody watching Twilight or 50 Shades and masterbating to it. Or reading Harlequin romances or online erotica. It's all just a tool to masterbate to. Link to post Share on other sites
Curdie Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Studies I have seen indicate that men are much more visually stimulated than women are. Where women generally prefer/need physical touch to become aroused (not always of course), men are often turned on sexually by just seeing something sexy. That may be one reason why porn is usually tailored to men. If a couple want to share their sex on screen, I see no issue with masterbating to it. You can't write this off as "would you do it if they were in the room". Porn is fantasy only. Of course there is more nudity and direct sex in porn, but it's really no different than somebody watching Twilight or 50 Shades and masterbating to it. Or reading Harlequin romances or online erotica. It's all just a tool to masterbate to. You're right, it is no different than watching twilight or 50 shades of grey. That doesn't mean it's not objectification. You're just switching bodies out. I mean, what person masturbating to twilight is thinking about what a smart, funny, stand up person the actor is? They're not. They're thinking about the actor's body and that's it. I take issue with any activity that reduces a person to the sum of his or her body parts. It's dehumanizing. And don't even get me started on celebrity culture as a whole... People are not products. And as visual as my husband is, he doesn't watch porn. I have all these philosophical objections to it, but his explanation is rather straightforward. He won't participate in those sorts of activities because he would be furious if anyone ever treated his daughter or sister or wife like a "tool to masturbate." If he would take issue with his daughter being treated that way, what kind of person would he be if he treated other women that way? Link to post Share on other sites
Got it Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Once again, consent doesn't mean it's not objectification. When you watch that married couple have sex on video you are purposefully avoiding acknowledging their humanity. Would you be ok with your monogamous partner sitting in the same room watching that couple have sex and masturbating to it? Most people that I know would answer no, whether they watch porn or not. Why? Because if you're just watching a video that married couple is no more than two moving bodies that sexually arouse you. If you're physically in their presence it gets a bit harder not to think of them as people. I'm glad you agree that she has the right to set boundaries that she's comfortable with, since that's the heart of the issue here. Your feelings and my feelings about porn don't matter when it comes to her relationship. Only her feelings and her partner's matter. It really irks me when a woman sets this boundary and people immediately jump to telling her why her thoughts and feelings are invalid. More often than not it's because they have unresolved issues with it and feel the need to defend their actions to both society and themselves. Curdie, you have every right to your opinion but please understand not everyone views it the same way. I do not agree with your first statement. Please respect that this is not something that, I would actually argue, the majority agree with. That argument would lead to actors are being objectified as it is not live theater and thusly we are reducing their humanism. I don't think that makes sense. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
TrustedthenBusted Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Studies I have seen indicate that men are much more visually stimulated than women are. Where women generally prefer/need physical touch to become aroused (not always of course), men are often turned on sexually by just seeing something sexy. That may be one reason why porn is usually tailored to men. If a couple want to share their sex on screen, I see no issue with masterbating to it. You can't write this off as "would you do it if they were in the room". Porn is fantasy only. Of course there is more nudity and direct sex in porn, but it's really no different than somebody watching Twilight or 50 Shades and masterbating to it. Or reading Harlequin romances or online erotica. It's all just a tool to masterbate to. FUnny thing about live sex. It does nothing for me. I went to a sex show in Europe out of curiosity and while they were doing exactly what you see in porn videos...somehow in real life it was just.....weird. Interesting thing to watch, but nothing I felt compelled to masturbate too. It wasn't even arousing to be honest. Just interesting. Link to post Share on other sites
TX-SC Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 You're right, it is no different than watching twilight or 50 shades of grey. That doesn't mean it's not objectification. You're just switching bodies out. I mean, what person masturbating to twilight is thinking about what a smart, funny, stand up person the actor is? They're not. They're thinking about the actor's body and that's it. I take issue with any activity that reduces a person to the sum of his or her body parts. It's dehumanizing. And don't even get me started on celebrity culture as a whole... People are not products. And as visual as my husband is, he doesn't watch porn. I have all these philosophical objections to it, but his explanation is rather straightforward. He won't participate in those sorts of activities because he would be furious if anyone ever treated his daughter or sister or wife like a "tool to masturbate." If he would take issue with his daughter being treated that way, what kind of person would he be if he treated other women that way? I think it's unlikely that either of us will change our minds on this. So, I think it's best to concentrate on the thing that we agree on, which is the basic tenant of this post. It's perfectly alright for anyone to draw a line in the sand as to what they find appropriate in a relationship. As I stated earlier, she is well within her right to say that porn is an issue for her, and if her SO can't agree to that, she has every right to move on. It would be the same with smoking, or drugs, or alcohol, or any specific sexual act. If she is uncomfortable with it, move on. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Is it actually the porn that bothers you, OP, or the lying? Opinion may vary on porn, but surely we can all agree that lying, hiding, deceiving is wrong....even if it's porn. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Curdie Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Curdie, you have every right to your opinion but please understand not everyone views it the same way. I do not agree with your first statement. Please respect that this is not something that, I would actually argue, the majority agree with. That argument would lead to actors are being objectified as it is not live theater and thusly we are reducing their humanism. I don't think that makes sense. When an actor is on screen playing a part, trying to communicate a character, that's one thing. In fact, the best actors are those who bring their characters into glorious, three dimensional, human likeness. Acting in a play or a movie is about telling a story and exploring humanity. Hardly the same thing as porn. Memoirs of a Geisha is not the equivalent of Paris Hilton's sex tape by any stretch of the imagination. Where our culture does have an issue is the commodification of celebrities. Their personal lives, with all the pain and joy, are plastered on tabloids for the general public to leer at. They are openly marketed as products with a certain image that doesn't necessarily reflect who they actually are as a person. Celebrities are objectified by default and it rather disgusts me. Of course, you're free to disagree. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Where our culture does have an issue is the commodification of celebrities. Their personal lives, with all the pain and joy, are plastered on tabloids for the general public to leer at. They are openly marketed as products with a certain image that doesn't necessarily reflect who they actually are as a person. Celebrities are objectified by default and it rather disgusts me. I hope you're not implying that celebrities resist this process? Often times, they'll refer to their fame as my "brand" and view the process as a marketing activity. As always, any of us are free to choose to not participate in the consumption... Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
Curdie Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 I hope you're not implying that celebrities resist this process? Often times, they'll refer to their fame as my "brand" and view the process as a marketing activity. As always, any of us are free to choose to not participate in the consumption... Mr. Lucky Oh, they most definitely encourage it. And that's what makes it all the worse. How many kinds of broken must Kim Kardashian be to behave the way she does? Why would any parent be ok with their custody battle being used as entertainment for the masses? They are so desperate for money and fame and attention that they'll pull any stunt, degrade themselves in any way, to keep themselves relevant. It's like watching an abuse victim go back for more over and over again because it's the best "love" they've ever experienced. It's sad and disgusting from every angle. The consumers' poorly disguised glee at watching their idols' pain, the willingness of the celebrities to throw their self worth away in the pursuit of fame, the opportunism of the tabloids... All of it. I refuse to participate in it. I'll watch quality movies, listen to quality music, etc. But I will never buy into the commodification of celebrities, whether they encourage it or not. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Got it Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 When an actor is on screen playing a part, trying to communicate a character, that's one thing. In fact, the best actors are those who bring their characters into glorious, three dimensional, human likeness. Acting in a play or a movie is about telling a story and exploring humanity. Hardly the same thing as porn. Memoirs of a Geisha is not the equivalent of Paris Hilton's sex tape by any stretch of the imagination. Where our culture does have an issue is the commodification of celebrities. Their personal lives, with all the pain and joy, are plastered on tabloids for the general public to leer at. They are openly marketed as products with a certain image that doesn't necessarily reflect who they actually are as a person. Celebrities are objectified by default and it rather disgusts me. Of course, you're free to disagree. But there are sexual matters and sex acts in movies. To me that falls in line with the same thing and sex is a human function as well as exploring all other areas of humanity. Link to post Share on other sites
Curdie Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 But there are sexual matters and sex acts in movies. To me that falls in line with the same thing and sex is a human function as well as exploring all other areas of humanity. The purpose of a sex scene in a well written script is to show character development and/or plot movement. The purpose of porn is to titulate and provide an image to masturbate to. The former, when well executed, is fairly life like and makes an attempt to explore all dynamics of the interaction. In fact some of the best, most impactful scenes are those where exposure is limited and the character's growth is emphasized. The latter is rarely life like and is purely about the physical aspect, making sure to bare all of the body but absolutely none of the person. Might as well compare the Song of Songs to "Suck it or Not." Both are lyrical, both are sexual, but they are wildly different in how they treat the human beings involved in the sexual act. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Dolfin80 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 FUnny thing about live sex. It does nothing for me. I went to a sex show in Europe out of curiosity and while they were doing exactly what you see in porn videos...somehow in real life it was just.....weird. Interesting thing to watch, but nothing I felt compelled to masturbate too. It wasn't even arousing to be honest. Just interesting. Yeah I saw a sex show in Amersterdam, it was more funny/weird than arousing. I think it was because I was there with 30 others on a tours. A lady did the sigar and banana trick - talented! Link to post Share on other sites
Got it Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 The purpose of a sex scene in a well written script is to show character development and/or plot movement. The purpose of porn is to titulate and provide an image to masturbate to. The former, when well executed, is fairly life like and makes an attempt to explore all dynamics of the interaction. In fact some of the best, most impactful scenes are those where exposure is limited and the character's growth is emphasized. The latter is rarely life like and is purely about the physical aspect, making sure to bare all of the body but absolutely none of the person. Might as well compare the Song of Songs to "Suck it or Not." Both are lyrical, both are sexual, but they are wildly different in how they treat the human beings involved in the sexual act. There are a LARGE number of gratuitous sex scenes, nudity in movies to be quite so lofty about their purpose. I think you are giving far too much credit to many modern movies and think they are there for similar purpose, because the audience likes to see a little T and A. Shoot, in a recent episode of Ballers, gratuitous butt shot of The Rock. So not really necessary but . . . it's his butt. People want to see it. It really didn't add to the depth or script, trust me. And there is definitely some women centric/geared porn that does have a story line, romance, and shared intimacy that I can't agree that no porn does what you think movies do. Link to post Share on other sites
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