Artie Lang Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 i hope this time he(your husband) follows through on exposing him to his BS. she really does need to know what's been going on.
irishguy Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 You need to remember this feeling and what hurt the affair caused because im sure you felt like this the first time and you still cheated again ,you did well telling him the truth .
aliveagain Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 Could certainly use your supportive thoughts. This is awful. Crawling in a hole seems better. This is now a level playing field, you can't keep lies that big from the man you supposedly love and expect that everything will be ok. Now just think about how he must be feeling. You caused this, what is your plan on how to fix this? What is your plan on how to make him feel safe? What are you putting in place to make sure you don't do this again? You need to expose O/M to his betrayed wife, discuss this with your husband on how you both do this because this has to end once and for all. You did the right thing. 1
Bigdaddyt Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 Redbird, I wasn't going to post on your thread; because as a recently betrayed husband I was afraid that my post would be angry and bitter. My D day was two weeks ago and I assure you that the pain that your husband is feeling is horrific. I have read your posts and it almost seems like you are saying poor me. What are you doing to help your betrayed husband get through his pain. What is your first priority in this?
Marc878 Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 Good example of why full exposure is always best. The AP got off free to pursue again. Not an excuse that the WW should have known bette but.....
Author Redbird Fly Posted September 4, 2015 Author Posted September 4, 2015 Maybe my posts do come off as "poor me." The problem is, I am the one who is posting, and yes, that includes my own feelings. Perhaps it's confusing for those betrayed to understand here, but even us "waywards" hurt. It doesn't mean we are self-focused or not thinking about our hurt spouses. But sometimes we have no other place to express ANY pain but somewhere like LS. And now I find that I can't say it here either. I am doing everything I know to do to take care of my husband and make him feel safe. But that is not what I post about. I tend to post about things I need support on, things I can't ask my husband for or anyone in real life. I don't spend time posting things I can handle, things I am doing, the things I actually have under a semblance of control. Another thing I've grown to understand that may be true of many waywards - my affair had nothing to do with my spouse. It was all about me. And the ending of it, was a fight for ME. The long drawn-out end was always an effort to get myself back. This was never a choice between MM and my husband. It was a choice between a false self and an authentic self. It almost took me down but I fought back. This is what I hope my husband can grow to understand. I let him know he has every right not to - but I am willing to do what it takes. 4
Bigdaddyt Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 Maybe my posts do come off as "poor me." The problem is, I am the one who is posting, and yes, that includes my own feelings. Perhaps it's confusing for those betrayed to understand here, but even us "waywards" hurt. It doesn't mean we are self-focused or not thinking about our hurt spouses. But sometimes we have no other place to express ANY pain but somewhere like LS. And now I find that I can't say it here either. I am doing everything I know to do to take care of my husband and make him feel safe. But that is not what I post about. I tend to post about things I need support on, things I can't ask my husband for or anyone in real life. I don't spend time posting things I can handle, things I am doing, the things I actually have under a semblance of control. Another thing I've grown to understand that may be true of many waywards - my affair had nothing to do with my spouse. It was all about me. And the ending of it, was a fight for ME. The long drawn-out end was always an effort to get myself back. This was never a choice between MM and my husband. It was a choice between a false self and an authentic self. It almost took me down but I fought back. This is what I hope my husband can grow to understand. I let him know he has every right not to - but I am willing to do what it takes. Redbird, I do know that you are hurting and I do recognize that everyone loses their way from time to time and boundaries get crossed. Who would you rather be with, your husband or the MM? Who would be a better husband and father? Do you believe that this MM truly loved you or was he just in this for sex? Any man that would cheat with you will cheat on you. I still love my WW but I am going to divorce her because of her betrayal.
Author Redbird Fly Posted September 4, 2015 Author Posted September 4, 2015 Redbird, I do know that you are hurting and I do recognize that everyone loses their way from time to time and boundaries get crossed. Who would you rather be with, your husband or the MM? Who would be a better husband and father? Do you believe that this MM truly loved you or was he just in this for sex? Any man that would cheat with you will cheat on you. I still love my WW but I am going to divorce her because of her betrayal. I choose my husband a thousand times over. There is no doubt in my mind who is a better husband and father for me and our children. Did the MM love me? I don't know if he knows what love is. I don't see how there can be real love in a lying, deceitful relationship. It's all false. It's nearly impossible to see in the middle of it though. I am very sorry for what happened to you. I haven't read your entire thread, so I don't have an idea of what may be going on in your WW's mind. But I can say that the decisions I made while in the affair and even in the months immediately following the first ending were really poor. My mind was not straight yet. Nobody is thinking straight, WS or BS, in those days. So divorce may be still be right for you, but you may not need to rush it either. Your call of course. My best to you. 2
qubist Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 Maybe my posts do come off as "poor me." The problem is, I am the one who is posting, and yes, that includes my own feelings. Perhaps it's confusing for those betrayed to understand here, but even us "waywards" hurt. It doesn't mean we are self-focused or not thinking about our hurt spouses. But sometimes we have no other place to express ANY pain but somewhere like LS. And now I find that I can't say it here either. I am doing everything I know to do to take care of my husband and make him feel safe. But that is not what I post about. I tend to post about things I need support on, things I can't ask my husband for or anyone in real life. I don't spend time posting things I can handle, things I am doing, the things I actually have under a semblance of control. Another thing I've grown to understand that may be true of many waywards - my affair had nothing to do with my spouse. It was all about me. And the ending of it, was a fight for ME. The long drawn-out end was always an effort to get myself back. This was never a choice between MM and my husband. It was a choice between a false self and an authentic self. It almost took me down but I fought back. This is what I hope my husband can grow to understand. I let him know he has every right not to - but I am willing to do what it takes. I understand you very well and so do lot of people here, you chose the hard way, where you are expected to never complain since you started all of this ordeal. feel free to vent all you thoughts here that's why the forum is all about.
DKT3 Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 Maybe my posts do come off as "poor me." The problem is, I am the one who is posting, and yes, that includes my own feelings. Perhaps it's confusing for those betrayed to understand here, but even us "waywards" hurt. It doesn't mean we are self-focused or not thinking about our hurt spouses. But sometimes we have no other place to express ANY pain but somewhere like LS. And now I find that I can't say it here either. I am doing everything I know to do to take care of my husband and make him feel safe. But that is not what I post about. I tend to post about things I need support on, things I can't ask my husband for or anyone in real life. I don't spend time posting things I can handle, things I am doing, the things I actually have under a semblance of control. Another thing I've grown to understand that may be true of many waywards - my affair had nothing to do with my spouse. It was all about me. And the ending of it, was a fight for ME. The long drawn-out end was always an effort to get myself back. This was never a choice between MM and my husband. It was a choice between a false self and an authentic self. It almost took me down but I fought back. This is what I hope my husband can grow to understand. I let him know he has every right not to - but I am willing to do what it takes. Redbird, I get this and now years out from my wife's affair I understand her affair wasn't about me. However, look at this from your husbands POV, saying it isn't about him isn't a souce of comfort. Right now, to him it is about him. He will feel that he isn't enough for you that is about him. You can't force your view of your affair on him. Right now, you have to take the force off yourself and put it on him, you made the decisions that put your family in this position, its your job now to make decisions that will help him heal. Forget about the ME ME stuff for a while. You don't have to answer this but it could help us help you. How did your husband react to the new? 2
Bigdaddyt Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 I choose my husband a thousand times over. There is no doubt in my mind who is a better husband and father for me and our children. Did the MM love me? I don't know if he knows what love is. I don't see how there can be real love in a lying, deceitful relationship. It's all false. It's nearly impossible to see in the middle of it though. I am very sorry for what happened to you. I haven't read your entire thread, so I don't have an idea of what may be going on in your WW's mind. But I can say that the decisions I made while in the affair and even in the months immediately following the first ending were really poor. My mind was not straight yet. Nobody is thinking straight, WS or BS, in those days. So divorce may be still be right for you, but you may not need to rush it either. Your call of course. My best to you. Redbird, I truly hope that you and your husband do stay together, I think that as you come out of the fog or fantasy of this affair things will become much clearer . I did push you a little because I know that your MM is a liar and not only betrayed you but also his wife and children. I truly believe that he is a user. Take the time to talk openly to your husband, tell him that you lost your way and came back because you choose him, a thousand times. Talk to your family about this, start IC for yourself and your husband. My wife didn't do all she could and tried to blame me so that led us to where we are now. I hope you and your husband have a better outcome .
DKT3 Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 I understand you very well and so do lot of people here, you chose the hard way, where you are expected to never complain since you started all of this ordeal. feel free to vent all you thoughts here that's why the forum is all about. Yes I agee, somewhat. The problem is her mindset has to change. She has to put her husbands pain ahead of her own, his healing ahead of hers. She has to do this to make him feel safe with her. I think this is the biggest mistakes that WW's make. If he doesn't feel safe the his next step will be divorce or worse some selfish behavior of him own that will drive even a bigger wedge between them. Her affair is done and she is still giving too much brain space to it and what if any feeling MM had for her. That is pointless and counter-productive to what she says it her goal. No she needs to put the ME ME stuff away for now. 1
Bigdaddyt Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 Yes I agee, somewhat. The problem is her mindset has to change. She has to put her husbands pain ahead of her own, his healing ahead of hers. She has to do this to make him feel safe with her. I think this is the biggest mistakes that WW's make. If he doesn't feel safe the his next step will be divorce or worse some selfish behavior of him own that will drive even a bigger wedge between them. Her affair is done and she is still giving too much brain space to it and what if any feeling MM had for her. That is pointless and counter-productive to what she says it her goal. No she needs to put the ME ME stuff away for now. I agree with your assessment , Redbird cannot move forward until she realizes the extent of the damage her affair has done and gives everything she has to fix it.
jbrent890 Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 Redbird, I get this and now years out from my wife's affair I understand her affair wasn't about me. However, look at this from your husbands POV, saying it isn't about him isn't a souce of comfort. Right now, to him it is about him. He will feel that he isn't enough for you that is about him. You can't force your view of your affair on him. Right now, you have to take the force off yourself and put it on him, you made the decisions that put your family in this position, its your job now to make decisions that will help him heal. Forget about the ME ME stuff for a while. You don't have to answer this but it could help us help you. How did your husband react to the new? I agree with this Red. A lot of betrayed do come to the realization that the affairs weren't about them, especially if they have remorseful waywards, but initially that realization does not compute with betrayed. In terms of BHs, the thoughts that cross our minds are if only we were more manly, had more sex, took our wives out on more dates, listened more, were more spontaneous, etc. I'm not going to lie, for months I blamed my wife's ONS on myself. It took serious counseling for me to realize that I did not make my wife cheat, our marriage wasn't that bad, and that my wife had poor coping skills. Right now your husband needs time to process this. Even though you feel and know that your affair had nothing to do with your husband, you have try to look at this from his point of view. You fell back into your affair. That would make even the strongest man feel like he isn't good enough for his wife. Again, give him space and time to process this. Answer any questions he might have and most importantly, be patient. If he decides to stay, this is going to take years for both of you to get over. Its a rocky road, but there is a destination at the end.
malvern99 Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 If Red salted her posts with information about what she is currently doing to help her husband heal, her posts would come off as a little less self focused. She says she is, so I will take her word for it. With that said, let me ask you a question Red. What is your primary goal of posting here? Is it to get help to try and rebuild and heal your marriage, or is it mostly to help yourself get through this? Are you looking for advice and feedback or just for ears to listen? 1
Author Redbird Fly Posted September 4, 2015 Author Posted September 4, 2015 The problem is, I don't know what my husband is even going to allow me to do yet. Letting me do the things that make him feel safe imply that he is with me in working towards reconciliation, and that is still up in the air. We've discussed some specific things that he would like for me to do and I have agreed (this is regarding transparency). He says that he has already felt a marked difference in me and my attitude in general, even over the last few months. Where he could tell I was not "all in" before, but that he could see that I have been changing. So things finally make sense to him which also helps him feel more safe. Finally, we are both hanging on tight to this marriage weekend, hoping that their advice will help us. Basically, he is trying not to make major decisions until then. 1
Bigdaddyt Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 The problem is, I don't know what my husband is even going to allow me to do yet. Letting me do the things that make him feel safe imply that he is with me in working towards reconciliation, and that is still up in the air. We've discussed some specific things that he would like for me to do and I have agreed (this is regarding transparency). He says that he has already felt a marked difference in me and my attitude in general, even over the last few months. Where he could tell I was not "all in" before, but that he could see that I have been changing. So things finally make sense to him which also helps him feel more safe. Finally, we are both hanging on tight to this marriage weekend, hoping that their advice will help us. Basically, he is trying not to make major decisions until then. Redbird, Your husband feels like your plan B and doesn't believe the words that you tell him. You lied to him before and for so long. You must show him by your actions that he is your only choice going forward. You are going to have to bite your tongue when he rages and be there to reassure him that you are all in this time. 1
Bigdaddyt Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 Redbird, I know that this is not easy, but pray you and your husband make it through. 1
malvern99 Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 The problem is, I don't know what my husband is even going to allow me to do yet. Letting me do the things that make him feel safe imply that he is with me in working towards reconciliation, and that is still up in the air. We've discussed some specific things that he would like for me to do and I have agreed (this is regarding transparency). He says that he has already felt a marked difference in me and my attitude in general, even over the last few months. Where he could tell I was not "all in" before, but that he could see that I have been changing. So things finally make sense to him which also helps him feel more safe. Finally, we are both hanging on tight to this marriage weekend, hoping that their advice will help us. Basically, he is trying not to make major decisions until then. You know your H better than anyone else. If you feel he needs space, give it to him, but make sure you let him know that you are available whenever he wants (to talk). Stick to the things you have agreed to do. That is so important. I did not quite follow what you meant by your H noticing a marked difference. Is this to the upside or the down side? During your relapse as opposed to straight after DDay? It's understandable that he is not in a place to make major decisions. I honestly think it may be too soon for MC, but do what you feel you have to. I would suggest IC first, for both you and your H. He needs help to process this situation, and you need help to understand why you did what you did. Without that information, you can never convince your H that you can be truly safe. Good luck to you and stay strong.
Morro72 Posted September 7, 2015 Posted September 7, 2015 ... I am (was) going back to school. We met there, though he is not a student... If OM is faculty or staff, there are a couple of things to keep in mind. The first is that he may have been violating one or more institutional policies by being involved with a student. The second is that you are probably just one of many to have gotten involved with this guy. In any case, if he is employed by the school, they should be informed, for the protection of other students.
remorseful_tab Posted September 7, 2015 Posted September 7, 2015 He says that he has already felt a marked difference in me and my attitude in general, even over the last few month a. Where he could tell I was not "all in" before, but that he could see that I have been changing. So things finally make sense to him which also helps him feel more safe. Finally, we are both hanging on tight to this marriage weekend, hoping that their advice will help us. Basically, he is trying not to make major decisions until then. You are so lucky that your H is even talking to about the difference he is seeing in you and waiting till the marriage therapy weekend before making any major decisions. If it was my H, "**** marriage therapy. Do whatever you want. I dont care. We are getting divorced". Be brutally honest to your H and if needed defend him if the therapist somehow insinuates that he is also to blame for your affair. Be humble. Take his heat without getting defensive. Apologies from the heart. Hold him when he breaks down. Best of luck 3
nightmare01 Posted September 7, 2015 Posted September 7, 2015 (edited) You are so lucky that your H is even talking to about the difference he is seeing in you and waiting till the marriage therapy weekend before making any major decisions. If it was my H, "**** marriage therapy. Do whatever you want. I dont care. We are getting divorced". Be brutally honest to your H and if needed defend him if the therapist somehow insinuates that he is also to blame for your affair. Be humble. Take his heat without getting defensive. Apologies from the heart. Hold him when he breaks down. Best of luck Really - really excellent advice. The only change I'd make would be to the term "brutally honest" You can be completely honest and not be brutal about it. My WW practiced "punishment by truth" as a way to keep me from asking questions she didn't want to answer. When I'd ask she would give me the full truth, but in the harshest most painful and brutal terms possible. Give the complete truth - but deliver it with empathy - and apologies. ETA: Feel the impact of your words upon him as you tell him the complete truth. It will build the resolution in you to never do this again. Good luck. Edited September 7, 2015 by nightmare01
Author Redbird Fly Posted September 7, 2015 Author Posted September 7, 2015 You are so lucky that your H is even talking to about the difference he is seeing in you and waiting till the marriage therapy weekend before making any major decisions. If it was my H, "**** marriage therapy. Do whatever you want. I dont care. We are getting divorced". Be brutally honest to your H and if needed defend him if the therapist somehow insinuates that he is also to blame for your affair. Be humble. Take his heat without getting defensive. Apologies from the heart. Hold him when he breaks down. Best of luck Thank you. I've read your threads and the fear of what happened to you is probably what holds me back the most. Because if I have it right, your H did appear to reconcile, or try, for a long time. What if we go through all of this for my husband to one day, after 8 years, say - you know what? I can't do it. I tried, but I can't. It's scary. It all is. But we are imperfect, right? There are no guarantees in life, regardless of how "perfect" we try to be. I can tell you one thing - NOTHING teaches like the pain of experience. I truly believe that I am a BETTER risk going forward. Who is less likely to touch a hot stove - someone who has no concept of what hot feels like, of what a stove even does? Or someone who has actually felt that searing heat? RT, I wish you the best. I really hope you are doing okay. 1
nightmare01 Posted September 7, 2015 Posted September 7, 2015 Thank you. I've read your threads and the fear of what happened to you is probably what holds me back the most. Because if I have it right, your H did appear to reconcile, or try, for a long time. What if we go through all of this for my husband to one day, after 8 years, say - you know what? I can't do it. I tried, but I can't. It's scary. It all is. But we are imperfect, right? There are no guarantees in life, regardless of how "perfect" we try to be. I can tell you one thing - NOTHING teaches like the pain of experience. I truly believe that I am a BETTER risk going forward. Who is less likely to touch a hot stove - someone who has no concept of what hot feels like, of what a stove even does? Or someone who has actually felt that searing heat? RT, I wish you the best. I really hope you are doing okay. The risk goes both ways. From your BH POV - what if you cheat again? What if all this remorse is just an act? He takes a huge risk by attempting to reconcile. Yes it's true that some BH do their best, but years, sometimes decades later, they realize that it just isn't working. The pain continues and they just give up and want to move on. The truth is the pain does continue. It diminishes over time, but it never goes completely away. But if you remain open and honest, if you do the work to fix yourself, if you have genuine remorse and empathy for the pain your husband feels, he will know it - and it's likely he will keep going. The truth is also that some WW get tired of trying. They get tired of the guilt. They want things to go back to the way it was before. They want their privacy back, they want to have male friends, they want girls night out, and so on. They start seeing their BH as a jailer, not a husband. And years later they also bail on the marriage. It's a risk for both of you. You each have to answer the question, is your marriage and your relationship worth the risk? 1
Author Redbird Fly Posted September 8, 2015 Author Posted September 8, 2015 You know your H better than anyone else. If you feel he needs space, give it to him, but make sure you let him know that you are available whenever he wants (to talk). Stick to the things you have agreed to do. That is so important. I did not quite follow what you meant by your H noticing a marked difference. Is this to the upside or the down side? During your relapse as opposed to straight after DDay? It's understandable that he is not in a place to make major decisions. I honestly think it may be too soon for MC, but do what you feel you have to. I would suggest IC first, for both you and your H. He needs help to process this situation, and you need help to understand why you did what you did. Without that information, you can never convince your H that you can be truly safe. Good luck to you and stay strong. I saw that I didn't answer your question - he was able to finally understand why I seemed so angry at times and sad at times during the time that my affair resumed and then he could also tell the times that I seemed to be resolved and away from the xMM. So having things finally make some sense to him is helpful for him, although of course not in the way that he would want.
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