New relationship. Can't end it because of his mental state.

[McGuffin]

McGuffin]I can't see how "prison" and "jail/gaol" are not the same?

 

They're not the same thing here. Jail is where people who have committed a crime go before they've been sentence and where they go after they're sentenced if their crime is not severe. You can get out of jail if you pay bail, but the bail is so ridiculously high that I doubt his family has the funds to even pay the bond. If you don't bond out, you sit in jail until your trial - or in this case mental competency hearing.

 

While you're right that a person wouldn't be sentenced to prison without being evaluated (though they might be if their lawyer never filed to make the request for them to be evaluated), they can be in jail for some time without any evaluation.

 

The lawyer his family hired failed to get the evaluation request papers in in time for his first hearing. Because of that, he spent another 5 weeks in jail waiting for an evaluation and another hearing.

 

No, I don't know much about the USA system but I can't see why it should be any different in essence to UK where prisoners have a certain amount of rights and where there are guidelines about the treatment of prisoners with mental illness.

 

California only fairly recently passed a law that got any kind of special treatment for the mentally ill in the criminal justice system. M's family was active in the passing of that law.

 

Rather than be sentenced to prison, it allows a mentally ill person to be deferred to treatment at a state hospital after they've been evaluated by a court psychiatrist and the judge orders the treatment. It doesn't require that the jail provide medication or any type of treatment or any mental health professionals to give counseling. They finally started giving it to him last week, but at this point, he's so unstable after being off them for so long that he probably isn't taking it, because the jail doesn't have people who know to check that he doesn't just cheek the meds and spit them out.

 

Last week, he got to the step of being evaluated and ordered to a state hospital. Once there, he will have psychiatric treatment and medication.

 

Right now, there is none. The closest thing is a social worker who comes and checks on him.

 

And does your man have Schizophrenia? Maybe he's telling a fairy story to his family?

 

I feel uncomfortable giving out his condition, because I don't feel it's my place. But since none of you know him personally, I'll get past that. Yes, part of his diagnosis is schizophrenia, but I forget the exact diagnosis.

 

He hasn't had much direct contact with his family to tell them anything. His brother visited for awhile but had to leave town last month to help their dad who was in a car wreck. (Which I was asked not to tell M about and the reason I know that stressful information can worsen his condition.)

 

Their information comes directly from the lawyer they hired, the social work assigned to him, and the psychiatrist who just evaluated him last week.

[elaine567]

I really do not understand why a jail would take a proven violent person off his psychiatric medication?

I can understand an unstable man off the street with no psychiatric history, being stuck in a queue for assessment and treatment in jail.

 

But if this man was truly long term stable before the "change of meds" incident, then it would surely be an easy fix to put him back on his prior meds and take it from there. A lot easier than putting him on suicide watch anyway.

The majority of US jails employ psychiatrists and psychologists, so I am unclear why a person with a known psychiatric condition and a violent tendency off his meds, is left to fend for himself in jail.

[McGuffin]

Oops. I replied before the edit.

 

McGuffin,

In Uk prisoners with Mental Health Issues can be transferred to Secure Mental Health Units

 

Section 48 49 - Transfer of a prisoner on remand to hospital - Rethink Mental Illness, the mental health charity

 

That sounds similar. I don't know if in UK people have to wait for weeks to get a hearing for a judge to allow them to go to treatment at a hospital. But I wouldn't be surprised if it was better in the UK.

 

This is almost the stage M is at, but he's not there yet. He's been ordered to the hospital, but has to wait in jail until a bed opens up in the hospital, because the funding in this state for mental health diversion programs is not good.

[McGuffin]

I really do not understand why a jail would take a proven violent person off his psychiatric medication?

I can understand an unstable man off the street with no psychiatric history, being stuck in a queue for assessment and treatment in jail.

 

But if this man was truly long term stable before the "change of meds" incident, then it would surely be an easy fix to put him back on his prior meds and take it from there. A lot easier than putting him on suicide watch anyway.

The majority of US jails employ psychiatrists and psychologists, so I am unclear why a person with a known psychiatric condition and a violent tendency off his meds, is left to fend for himself in jail.

 

You, me, and his family are all wondering these same things.

 

But the justice system doesn't run on what makes the most sense and is the most effective. It runs on procedures and rules. And nobody in the jail is paid to make sure an inmate is on his meds that had him stabilized previously.

 

His family is pretty upset with their lawyer, because they thought he submitted the paperwork to get the evaluation immediately. They only found out last week from the psychiatrist who did the eval that the paperwork had only been postmarked a few days before the scheduled date of his first hearing. He should have been ordered to the hospital at that hearing, but because of the lawyer's f*ck up, all that happened was for another hearing to be scheduled.

 

So he's been sitting for I think 5 weeks with no meds waiting on the next hearing.

[elaine567]

OK so he is now getting meds, but he may not be taking them.

 

Is he to be detained indefinitely, until a hospital place is available for him?

[McGuffin]

OK so he is now getting meds, but he may not be taking them.

 

Yeah. As of last week, the social worker said he's now getting his meds. When I asked him last weekend if he was taking meds, he said no. Unless the social worker has the info wrong (which according to his family, she might because she's given them a lot of wrong info), my guess is that he's receiving the meds but not taking them.

 

According to his family, it's normal for when he's off the meds that he doesn't want to start taking them again. He spent several years off and on with hospitalizations before he was doing well.

 

But before this medication change, he was very adamant about needing to take his meds. Once we spoke about it and he said sometimes he doesn't want to take them because of the side effects, but he takes them because he knows if he doesn't, he'll end up in the hospital, and he never wants to end up there again.

 

Is he to be detained indefinitely, until a hospital place is available for him?

 

Yeah.

Edited August 9, 2015 by McGuffin

[Arieswoman]

McG,

You still haven't said what condition your guy is suffering from?

 

As of last week, the social worker said he's now getting his meds. When I asked him last weekend if he was taking meds, he said no. Unless the social worker has the info wrong (which according to his family, she might because she's given them a lot of wrong info), my guess is that he's receiving the meds but not taking them.

 

^^^^ this is typical behaviour for schizophrenics. They feel better and stop taking meds, or they find some excuse to not take them (claiming to feel ill with them, etc etc) and then they start exhibiting behavioural problems and actually experience unpleasant symptoms.

At this point they are (in UK) subject to the Deprivation of Liberty Act and put in a Secure Unit to be assessed and stabilised. This can takes weeks before they can be released back into the community. Once released they are monitored by a Community Psychiatric Nurse for as long as necessary.

 

Violence is not a characteristic of schizophrenic that occurs as an isolated incident. Usually this type of anti-social behaviour started before diagnosis and is often associated with substance abuse.

 

I would suspect that you are not being told the whole truth here. The family will only tell you what the lawyer tells them to say so as not to harm his defence when he comes to trial.

 

Many people use mental illness as an excuse for bad behaviour and the legal system is well aware of that.

After all, it sounds better to say "I stabbed my mother because God told me to do it" rather then "I stabbed my mother because she wouldn't give me money for drugs".

 

As others have said, you don't need this drama - just walk away.

[katiegrl]

Q

McG,

You still haven't said what condition your guy is suffering from?

 

 

 

^^^^ this is typical behaviour for schizophrenics. They feel better and stop taking meds, or they find some excuse to not take them (claiming to feel ill with them, etc etc) and then they start exhibiting behavioural problems and actually experience unpleasant symptoms.

At this point they are (in UK) subject to the Deprivation of Liberty Act and put in a Secure Unit to be assessed and stabilised. This can takes weeks before they can be released back into the community. Once released they are monitored by a Community Psychiatric Nurse for as long as necessary.

 

Violence is not a characteristic of schizophrenic that occurs as an isolated incident. Usually this type of anti-social behaviour started before diagnosis and is often associated with substance abuse.

 

I would suspect that you are not being told the whole truth here. The family will only tell you what the lawyer tells them to say so as not to harm his defence when he comes to trial.

 

***Many people use mental illness as an excuse for bad behaviour and the legal system is well aware of that.

 

****After all, it sounds better to say "I stabbed my mother because God told me to do it" rather then "I stabbed my mother because she wouldn't give me money for drugs".

 

As others have said, you don't need this drama - just walk away.

 

People who genuinely and legitimately suffer from schizophrenia don't use their illness as an *excuse* for bad behavior. They literally have no control over their "bad behavior " due to their limited capacity to understand and differentiate between right and wrong .... as a direct result from their mental illness.

 

Those who "pretend" to have or embellish a mental illness use this as an excuse to justify bad behavior. Huge difference there.

 

OP, I know I am in the minority here but I applaud you for sticking by your friend/boyfriend while in this fragile emotional state. That shows compassion, and empathy as a friend and caring human being.... for another human being... let alone your own boyfriend.

 

It would serve no purpose telling him you want to break up now ...other than possibly causing him more distress, and frankly I would not want it on my conscience if he went over the edge and fatally hurt himself as a result. It's been known to happen, many times in fact.

 

The jails here in the U.S suck! People accused of a crime are sent there while awaiting trial, after which, if convicted, they are sent to prison.

 

Those in prison have rights, but those in jail don't and are treated horribly! I am not surprised one bit that he was denied meds and shoved in a cold cell. Of course every state is different, some are worse than others.

 

Emotionally healthy people have been known to commit suicide in jail here in the U.S......as was a recent case here of a woman arrested for a freaking traffic violation, thrown in jail ...abused, denied basic needs ....she was found dead in her cell a few days later -- suicide. So sad.

 

That said, the OP did not even start this thread asking if she should break up with him now. Her question was whether or not she should start dating H, if H were to become available while M was still in jail.

 

IMO, I think out of courtesy for M and respect for the relationship you have shared, you should wait. If you absolutely cannot wait, then you may want to consider talking with M about your feelings...if he is even capable of such a talk at this time.

 

Until he gets back on his meds, he may not even understand what you're saying anyway...

 

But that's a big if, as it does not appear that H is planning on being available any time soon ...... but you would know better than I about that.

 

Good luck with whatever you decide and all the best to M .... hope he gets better soon, for both your sakes!

Edited August 9, 2015 by katiegrl

[ExpatInItaly]

No, you shouldn't date anyone until you break up with your boyfriend. Until you do that, other men should be off limits to you. That includes this other H person. It doesn't matter how in love with him you are.

 

I won't bother to further address the other alarming problems raised throughout this thread. It appears you only really want an answer as to whether you can date other guys while you are in a relationship with this man. You claim to care very much about his feelings, so do the compassionate thing and stay loyal until you have the chance to properly the end the relationship.

[McGuffin]

Want to give you guys an update.

 

M got a hospital bed several months ago. The judge recognized his case had been mishandled so was able to somehow put a rush on his receiving a bed. One of his family members are back from helping with the family problems in their home state. He's also able to make calls from the hospital (which he hadn't been able to figure out how to do from the jail phones), so he's able to talk to his family again.

 

His family has looked into a lawsuit against his doctor because there are a few things he mishandled with M's treatment. They found out they have a couple years, IIRC, to bring it. So they're waiting until everything else is dealt with to pursue that.

 

I visited M in the hospital once with his brother and called him there once a month or more ago. (I called a few times over the holidays but got busy signals since it's only 1 shared phone.) Last time I talked to him, he seemed more rational. I didn't get the impression that he still considers us a couple.

 

I got a text last week from his family thanking me for my help and friendship and letting me know that he's still in the hospital but they think he's doing better. They're very nice.

 

I might call him soon and ask him how he's doing. Currently he's been in jail/hospital for longer than the 4 months we dated. I think it's been about 7 months in. I haven't officially broken up with him, because while talking to him, I didn't get the feeling there was any need for that to be said. If I do have a conversation where it feels like he considers us still in a relationship, I'll break it to him.

 

I haven't dated anyone or wanted to.

 

H broke up with his gf recently. That might go somewhere. Might not. I still adore him. We'll see.

Edited January 11, 2016 by McGuffin

[bathtub-row]

I agree with the others -- run, don't walk, away from this.

 

It doesn't matter about the medication or that he was following doctor's orders. This issue will run your life if you stay with him. Think about it. And if you go so far as to have children with him, they could also have the same condition. Do you really want this?

 

His problems are not your problems. You have a ton of red flags here. Don't waste your time rationalizing it. Just leave.