Seachan Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 We talked last night and I used lots of your insights to guide it-thank you- he says lots stems from feeling insecure- like Serens husband-he has never felt good enough for me and now its even worse (I don't understand that as being a factor in cheating, but OK) - Since he accepted that he was *less than* you, then it follows that his behavior - cheating -could be *less than* you deserve. The self-flagellation only reinforces that mindset. I can see why you don't like it, GS. He needs to tell himself that he is a better man than that - a man of integrity - and what are the thought patterns he needs to become the man he wants to be. "Your beliefs become your thoughts, Your thoughts become your words, Your words become your actions, Your actions become your habits, Your habits become your values, Your values become your destiny." - Mahatma Gandhi 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Vercetti Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Wait, you're supposed to make him feel better about a wrong he inflicted on you. If anything has fear you will return the cheating. Seems like a tactic to flip the script and keep you on the back foot. You can't even get mad / sad / wish for support over his actions....cause it would remind him what a failure he is and give him pains of guilt and shame. Old gaslight don't work use new gaslight. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author gettingstronger Posted August 2, 2015 Author Share Posted August 2, 2015 Wait, you're supposed to make him feel better about a wrong he inflicted on you. If anything has fear you will return the cheating. Seems like a tactic to flip the script and keep you on the back foot. You can't even get mad / sad / wish for support over his actions....cause it would remind him what a failure he is and give him pains of guilt and shame. Old gaslight don't work use new gaslight. I don't think I said any of that- what I said was that his guilt and shame are starting to wear thin on me- I know he feels bad and I would too if I were him, but sometimes being around a guilty remorseful soul is not so fun- 2 Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Since he accepted that he was *less than* you, then it follows that his behavior - cheating -could be *less than* you deserve. The self-flagellation only reinforces that mindset. I can see why you don't like it, GS. He needs to tell himself that he is a better man than that - a man of integrity - and what are the thought patterns he needs to become the man he wants to be. "Your beliefs become your thoughts, Your thoughts become your words, Your words become your actions, Your actions become your habits, Your habits become your values, Your values become your destiny." - Mahatma Gandhi Man there is a lot of wisdom here. That is why at some point a BS who stays has to choose which route to take. They cannot have a real, loving relationship of equals AND continue to see their FWS as "less than." They have to either settle for a dysfunctional relationship because the payoff of keeping the FWS less than is worth it, or they have to let go of the "less than" so they can have a healthy relationship. One of the things I admire about you, GS, is that you want a healthy and loving relationship in spite of your H's past crappy choices. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author gettingstronger Posted August 3, 2015 Author Share Posted August 3, 2015 Man there is a lot of wisdom here. That is why at some point a BS who stays has to choose which route to take. They cannot have a real, loving relationship of equals AND continue to see their FWS as "less than." They have to either settle for a dysfunctional relationship because the payoff of keeping the FWS less than is worth it, or they have to let go of the "less than" so they can have a healthy relationship. One of the things I admire about you, GS, is that you want a healthy and loving relationship in spite of your H's past crappy choices. Thanks for this- At the end of the day, that is what its about- who wants to wallow or be part of something unhealthy no matter how much you love that person- if I felt we were progressing in this direction, I would have cut and run long ago- Link to post Share on other sites
merrmeade Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Wait, you're supposed to make him feel better about a wrong he inflicted on you. If anything has fear you will return the cheating. Seems like a tactic to flip the script and keep you on the back foot. You can't even get mad / sad / wish for support over his actions....cause it would remind him what a failure he is and give him pains of guilt and shame. Old gaslight don't work use new gaslight.I don't think I said any of that- what I said was that his guilt and shame are starting to wear thin on me- I know he feels bad and I would too if I were him, but sometimes being around a guilty remorseful soul is not so fun- You didn't say it and maybe you don't see it that way, but looking at the WS's actions AND their motives, conscious or unconscious, is important (imho) for the BS's strength and continued healing. There are lots of tactics that people use to protect themselves, but people consciously breaking their own codes of ethics get into a complex web of delusional thinking. I know my WH doesn't consciously identify all these manipulations, but that's the whole point of everybody saying THEY NEED IC! This IS what they have to admit to themselves. In a way, it's enabling NOT to examine closely why they do what they do when the interactions are messy, yucky, self-aggrandizing and manipulative. It's just that you're "gettingstronger" and so aren't hurt by it now. You're also in therapy. Beware and protect yourself so you keep getting stronger, gs. What's annoying, cloying guilt and shame today could be gaslighting tomorrow, as it surely was during his affair. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Bittersweetie Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 I know my WH doesn't consciously identify all these manipulations, but that's the whole point of everybody saying THEY NEED IC! This IS what they have to admit to themselves. In a way, it's enabling NOT to examine closely why they do what they do when the interactions are messy, yucky, self-aggrandizing and manipulative. This is a good point, merrmeade. Before my A, I was selfish, and my husband fully admits he enabled that behavior in me. After d-day, he said, you need to figure yourself out in order for us to have a chance. I dragged my feet a little bit and he said: "I don't expect you to have everything figured out immediately. But you need to be working on it. Making progress, moving forward. If you're not going to be working on YOU, then I'm not going to waste my time working on US." So if a WS drags his feet, not addressing his issues...and a BS doesn't call them out on it...is that enabling? An interesting thought, M. It makes me see my H's statement as not only drawing his boundary but also as his not enabling me in more selfish behavior. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
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