Is she losing interest or just going through a transition phase?

September 21, 2015

A young associate billing 210 probably nets 160 after they're cut/adjusted to what can actually be billed in good faith to a client due to the associate's learning curve, and it's that net that is the true minimum the associate has to meet, not the gross.

That's why they work so much. Otherwise meeting a 2000-2100 yearly benchmark would be easy.

She's grossing 210, but that's not her net, that's not what counts.

Her benchmark is well below 2000-2100.

And, from my understanding, not all firms cut hours (hers does). It doesn't change the fact that she's billing 210 hours, which is a ridiculous pace to go at (at a small firm) and one which most people can't maintain.

September 21, 2015

Also, billable versus actual isn't the actual point.

September 21, 2015

Also, billable versus actual isn't the actual point.

Well, the point is that she's working to a point where she's super stressed and breaking down. So, it kind of does play into the point because in order to bill a lot of hours you have to be at work a lot of hours.

September 21, 2015

Well, the point is that she's working to a point where she's super stressed and breaking down. So, it kind of does play into the point because in order to bill a lot of hours you have to be at work a lot of hours.

You're still missing the point. She's CHOOSING this.

September 21, 2015

And, from my understanding, not all firms cut hours (hers does). It doesn't change the fact that she's billing 210 hours, which is a ridiculous pace to go at (at a small firm) and one which most people can't maintain.

Uh, ok? Not true in my vast experience.

Hey, you're the expert, that's why you're the one asking all the questions, right?

I've been an attorney for a long time, in boutique, Big Law, and now the government, in management in all three, teaching MCLE and law practice management. Worked with attorneys for years before I was ever one myself. Take my word for it or not. No skin off my back.

It sounds like you're answering you're own question. This isn't working for you. So I guess keep on your see-saw for the next six months.

September 21, 2015

You're still missing the point. She's CHOOSING this.

She's not choosing to do it, she has to do it.

Aside from quitting (which, after 3 months, doesn't look great on a resume) and waiting for the help to begin, she has no choice but to suck it up right now. Those are her words and ones I agree with.

September 21, 2015

Strong in this one, the denial is.

OP, you're not listening to anyone and are stubborn in your defense of this woman who is lukewarm on you - by her ACTIONS - so honestly, just use your time spent posting here for texting your GF.

September 21, 2015

Uh, ok? Not true in my vast experience.

Hey, you're the expert, that's why you're the one asking all the questions, right?

I've been an attorney for a long time, in boutique, Big Law, and now the government, in management in all three, teaching MCLE and law practice management. Worked with attorneys for years before I was ever one myself. Take my word for it or not. No skin off my back.

It sounds like you're answering you're own question. This isn't working for you. So I guess keep on your see-saw for the next six months.

Never claimed to be an expert, just going by what I've heard and read (which happens to be contrary to what you are sharing). You offered your experience and I appreciate that. I am not choosing to take one or the other as the gospel.

September 21, 2015

She's not choosing to do it, she has to do it.

Aside from quitting (which, after 3 months, doesn't look great on a resume) and waiting for the help to begin, she has no choice but to suck it up right now. Those are her words and ones I agree with.

It's STILL a choice, buddy.

You still don't get it. When she's telling you that she has to work all these hours, she's hinting at something. The thought of quitting probably has never really gone through her mind, but the thought of excluding you from her life because you are way needier than she is... really has, probably multiple times.

September 21, 2015

Also, billable versus actual isn't the actual point.

He was intimating she was working more than she's required to. I was explaining how he's missing a key point about that, as gross billed hours (hers, 210) are not the same as her net, and thus her true minimum, which are probably close to the same.

September 21, 2015

Strong in this one, the denial is.

OP, you're not listening to anyone and are stubborn in your defense of this woman who is lukewarm on you - by her ACTIONS - so honestly, just use your time spent posting here for texting your GF.

I am not denying anything. Everyone is saying move on because I am not happy. I never stated that. I stated that I'm confused as to how to handle this scenario.

If she were lukewarm, I don't think she wouldn't invite me to events, take me to visit family routinely, visit with my family and devote weekends to me. She is stressed by her job and doesn't know how to balance things. I'm trying to help her understand that by letting her know I'm not looking for chunks of time during brief weeks, but would just like to see her even if it means small gestures to help de-stress her.

You're the one suggesting I go no contact on someone I'm in a committed relationship with and suggesting I "grow some testicles" because I'm trying to prevent her from breaking down further.

September 21, 2015

You tell her that you're not happy with the amount of time that you see her.

You say that you would like to see her more, as that's what you need from this r/s.

She will say that's not possible.

That's when you end this r/s.

This is what you need to do. Anything else is just smoke and mirrors. You're making this very, very complicated when in reality it is very, very simple.

September 21, 2015

It's STILL a choice, buddy.

You still don't get it. When she's telling you that she has to work all these hours, she's hinting at something. The thought of quitting probably has never really gone through her mind, but the thought of excluding you from her life because you are way needier than she is... really has, probably multiple times.

Except you're missing the fact that I haven't mentioned anything I have posted in here today to her, aside from asking if I'd be able to see her this week.

When she's telling me she's working all these hours, it's because she is. She confides in me when her friends/relatives don't understand that she's not working these hours by choice, but because she has to because I see how stressed she is and because I understand it (in large part).

September 21, 2015

You tell her that you're not happy with the amount of time that you see her.

You say that you would like to see her more, as that's what you need from this r/s.

She will say that's not possible.

That's when you end this r/s.

This is what you need to do. Anything else is just smoke and mirrors. You're making this very, very complicated when in reality it is very, very simple.

Never did I say I need to see her more.

My initial post was regarding a potential two-week gap in not seeing one another, which I said I was confused by because a) I understood it from her perspective but b) didn't understand why she couldn't fit anything in.

September 21, 2015

OK, OP.

My opinion is that you're wasting everyone's time in this thread. You're just arguing with them after they take the time to post.

Good luck. Hope you find your happiness.

September 21, 2015

Except you're missing the fact that I haven't mentioned anything I have posted in here today to her, aside from asking if I'd be able to see her this week.

When she's telling me she's working all these hours, it's because she is. She confides in me when her friends/relatives don't understand that she's not working these hours by choice, but because she has to because I see how stressed she is and because I understand it (in large part).

Here's the thing, when you hear her saying she's working all these hours, ALL you hear is "I'm working all these hours."

You're not fully grasping the implicit part of what she is saying.

When she's telling you she has no time, she also means she has no time for YOU. You're just not seeing it.

After this "job", there'll be another job with hours that are crazy, etc, etc, etc... the problem here is that you are holding onto an idea that doesn't exist. Sure, she'll make SOME time for you, but you are the type of person who will eventually resent whatever time she does make, because it's not enough.

Like you said, you can't understand why she couldn't fit ANYTHING in.

Answer: Because she didn't want to.

You need to start understanding this.

September 21, 2015

It's very normal to work long hours as a new associate. I can't even count how many times I was at my firm until midnight during my first few years. I don't care what they "say" her minimum billable hours are. The fact is she's already working much more than that, and I suspect this is not an anomaly. This is going to continue as she moves on in her career (and it doesn't get much better when you make partner, euther). You may need to decide whether this is the type of partner and the life you want.

September 21, 2015

Here's the thing, when you hear her saying she's working all these hours, ALL you hear is "I'm working all these hours."

You're not fully grasping the implicit part of what she is saying.

When she's telling you she has no time, she also means she has no time for YOU. You're just not seeing it.

After this "job", there'll be another job with hours that are crazy, etc, etc, etc... the problem here is that you are holding onto an idea that doesn't exist. Sure, she'll make SOME time for you, but you are the type of person who will eventually resent whatever time she does make, because it's not enough.

Like you said, you can't understand why she couldn't fit ANYTHING in.

Answer: Because she didn't want to.

You need to start understanding this.

If I were buying into this I would be buying into the notion that she's a cold-hearted human who has no regard for anyone or anything other than work. When she can't fit anything in, it's not just in respect to us. It's in respect to her friends and her family as well.

September 21, 2015

Never did I say I need to see her more.

My initial post was regarding a potential two-week gap in not seeing one another, which I said I was confused by because a) I understood it from her perspective but b) didn't understand why she couldn't fit anything in.

Uhh ... but you just said:

I don't know, I'm just struggling right now. Potentially going two weeks without seeing my girlfriend (even though she lives 5 minutes away) just gets me down in the dumps. Her firm is supposed to be getting help (starting in October, I believe) and theoretically that will take some of the burden off of her, but I find myself twisting that into a negative and asking, "well, what if it doesn't and I'm still not seeing her for stretches of weeks?"

And also:

I know that this is just a really rough stretch for her and it should get better, but then I think, "who lives in the same city as their girlfriend and doesn't see her for two weeks?" I don't even want to do anything in particular. Even if it were just crawling into the same bed and sleeping next to her would be enough. And, I know that if our situation was different, and we were living together, it wouldn't be an issue because I'd at least still see her. It's just weird. Sometimes during these stretches I feel like I'm in a long-distance relationship.

I don't understand how this is not a plea to want to spend more time with her.

OP, I think it's 100% OK to want to see your GF, even a busy law firm-employed one, more than once every two weeks. From the way you describe it, it DOES sound like she's giving you scraps.

My ex kinda did the same thing. He cared—I know he cared about me—and introduced me to friends, invited me with him on work trips, bought nice things for me, etc. He DID a lot of "good" things for me, but could NOT give me the one thing I needed to feel close to him. Also, we had to work around his schedule quite often, too.

To me, it sounds like you're not getting what you NEED from your GF. You said it so yourself:

I feel like I'm being unreasonable in regards to her needs, but I also feel like I'm being unreasonable in regards to my own.

And I think that's what you need to concentrate on. If you were TRULY OK with her wackadoo schedule, you wouldn't be on here posting about it. You'd be keeping yourself busy with other things during the two weeks you can't see her. Yet there IS something in it that bothers you.

Incompatible relationships are NOT always "bad" relationships. People can get along and have a good time and truly love each other, but that doesn't mean they can necessarily give each other what they truly need. It sounds as if your GF might be in that boat.

I know you're probably feeling harped or defensive, so I'll just leave you with this final thought.

It's hard, OP, it's hard. There were people on here telling me FOR MONTHS before my ex and I broke up that it wasn't a good situation and that I deserved better, but I was so deep in it I COULD NOT hear them. I go back and read those posts now and go, "doy! of course!!"

I think that's where a lot of this pushback you're getting is coming from. You don't sound happy, and you deserve to be happy. You deserve to be with someone who will fulfill your relational needs. If you are consistently feeling bad about this relationship, then maybe there is someone better out there for you.

Edited September 21, 2015 by losangelena

September 21, 2015

If I were buying into this I would be buying into the notion that she's a cold-hearted human who has no regard for anyone or anything other than work. When she can't fit anything in, it's not just in respect to us. It's in respect to her friends and her family as well.

Trust me, at some point, you'll probably hear this, "I need to focus on my career."

Her friends and family will always be there.

You're just in denial.

September 21, 2015

It's very normal to work long hours as a new associate. I can't even count how many times I was at my firm until midnight during my first few years. I don't care what they "say" her minimum billable hours are. The fact is she's already working much more than that, and I suspect this is not an anomaly. This is going to continue as she moves on in her career (and it doesn't get much better when you make partner, euther). You may need to decide whether this is the type of partner and the life you want.

Exactly. But the OP will argue against you too, I bet.

I find it strange that he's deciding what her career and firm requires, as if he knows better than she and others who've walked in her shoes do.

September 21, 2015

I find it strange that he's deciding what her career and firm requires, as if he knows better than she and others who've walked in her shoes do.

Denial will do that to people.

September 21, 2015

Exactly. But the OP will argue against you too, I bet.

I find it strange that he's deciding what her career and firm requires, as if he knows better than she and others who've walked in her shoes do.

Everything I stated was what she told me or what I read and not anything I came to on my own.

September 21, 2015

Everything I stated was what she told me or what I read and not anything I came to on my own.

You're drawing conclusions, are you not? In your opinion, you think she's working more hours than she needs to as a brand new associate.

Simply stated, you're wrong.

And you're defining the quality of your relationship by that fallacy.

September 21, 2015

You're drawing conclusions, are you not? In your opinion, you think she's working more hours than she needs to as a brand new associate.

Simply stated, you're wrong.

And you're defining the quality of your relationship by that fallacy.

I'm not drawing any of my own conclusions. She thinks she is working more hours than she needs to and her friend who works at a big firm told her the same. My comments were based off of that, and the reading I have done online.

Her conclusions probably come from working at the firm for over a year now (and seeing the workload of other associates) and from the fact that she is having to do a lot of tasks normally assigned to a paralegal since there's only one paralegal for 8 attorneys.

So, I'm not wrong simply because I'm not the one drawing conclusions.

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Is she losing interest or just going through a transition phase?

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