Ruby Slippers Posted July 20, 2015 Posted July 20, 2015 I never got why more homely women give up after 1 date. Most women understand that while it's easy to have sex with better-looking guys, a love relationship with a guy who's better-looking than them has a low chance of survival. It's pretty clear that the primary driver of most men's romantic passion is physical attraction. So if he knows he could get a better-looking woman, odds are slim that those deeper romantic feelings will be sufficiently stirred and sustained. Women with any degree of experience with men get this. I'm cute but not gorgeous, but I think because of interior qualities, it's pretty easy for me to land very good-looking men, and this goes back to my teen years. But I finally figured out that it's meaningless to land the hottest guys in my life if their heart isn't all in and I don't feel adored. And I'm not convinced that life is any easier for the best-looking men. My very handsome high school boyfriend called me a few years ago, whining because his good looks were starting to fade and he couldn't find hot women to take care of him anymore. He had never developed himself because he didn't have to - and his shtick was beginning to wear thin. My last boyfriend looked like a model, just smolderingly gorgeous, as well as exceptionally intelligent and accomplished. He recently got in touch to wish me a happy birthday, asked if I had birthday plans with anybody special, and told me he still hasn't met anybody. Women throw themselves at him constantly, but it seems he's only attracted to the very best-looking women - and they also need to be exceptionally smart and highly accomplished to do it for him. So he has way more options than your average guy, but in practice he has to work just as hard to find a woman who really does it for him. He wanted to settle down with me, and treated me like I was good enough - but I always felt something was missing, and that something was his genuine adoration and romantic passion. I told him to look for a woman who genuinely excites him, someone he's crazy about. He said he's Mr. Spock and doesn't see himself being crazy about anybody. I think he just hasn't developed his confidence enough to find what he's really looking for. But he will, in time. I advised him not to waste his or other women's time getting involved when his heart isn't all in. 5
empresario Posted July 20, 2015 Posted July 20, 2015 Most women understand that while it's easy to have sex with better-looking guys, a love relationship with a guy who's better-looking than them has a low chance of survival. It's pretty clear that the primary driver of most men's romantic passion is physical attraction. So if he knows he could get a better-looking woman, odds are slim that those deeper romantic feelings will be sufficiently stirred and sustained. Women with any degree of experience with men get this. I'm cute but not gorgeous, but I think because of interior qualities, it's pretty easy for me to land very good-looking men, and this goes back to my teen years. But I finally figured out that it's meaningless to land the hottest guys in my life if their heart isn't all in and I don't feel adored. And I'm not convinced that life is any easier for the best-looking men. My very handsome high school boyfriend called me a few years ago, whining because his good looks were starting to fade and he couldn't find hot women to take care of him anymore. He had never developed himself because he didn't have to - and his shtick was beginning to wear thin. My last boyfriend looked like a model, just smolderingly gorgeous, as well as exceptionally intelligent and accomplished. He recently got in touch to wish me a happy birthday, asked if I had birthday plans with anybody special, and told me he still hasn't met anybody. Women throw themselves at him constantly, but it seems he's only attracted to the very best-looking women - and they also need to be exceptionally smart and highly accomplished to do it for him. So he has way more options than your average guy, but in practice he has to work just as hard to find a woman who really does it for him. He wanted to settle down with me, and treated me like I was good enough - but I always felt something was missing, and that something was his genuine adoration and romantic passion. I told him to look for a woman who genuinely excites him, someone he's crazy about. He said he's Mr. Spock and doesn't see himself being crazy about anybody. I think he just hasn't developed his confidence enough to find what he's really looking for. But he will, in time. I advised him not to waste his or other women's time getting involved when his heart isn't all in. Damn. I suppose there is a difference between being attractive and being sort of narcissistic. In a way he's probably cheating himself out of anything meaningful. You must have something alluring about you because they keep coming back! Fortunately for me I was a late bloomer. Women never considered me attractive until about 4 years ago. Then went from never sought-after to fighting them off. I am 28 and am still growing (I have grown an inch the past couple years). That's how slow I age. My mom was the same way and looked 20 until she was 50. Because of that, I feel like my 'range' is a little more flexible than most people's because I developed being attracted to girls more around my attractiveness level back then (which was very low back then). I have a low tolerance to fake-looking women that are traditionally considered 'attractive'. That's why I suppose I don't get why women flee so fast. From what you're saying it may be cynicism. That's unfortunate. 1
Jejangles Posted July 20, 2015 Posted July 20, 2015 Most women understand that while it's easy to have sex with better-looking guys, a love relationship with a guy who's better-looking than them has a low chance of survival. It's pretty clear that the primary driver of most men's romantic passion is physical attraction. So if he knows he could get a better-looking woman, odds are slim that those deeper romantic feelings will be sufficiently stirred and sustained. Yep, this. I can objectively see that certain men are attractive but I don't feel anything towards them because they are "out of my league". I guess it's insecurity, I want to feel equal to my partner, and that means I don't want to go too far "up" or "down" (in either looks or personality / intelligence). This is not a conscious thing for me, it just is what it is. Plus of course, looks are not all that matter! Maybe those "homely" women were turned off by personality or saw some sort of red flag / no go behaviour.
Ruby Slippers Posted July 20, 2015 Posted July 20, 2015 Damn. I suppose there is a difference between being attractive and being sort of narcissistic. In a way he's probably cheating himself out of anything meaningful. You must have something alluring about you because they keep coming back! You're sweet My guess is that he likes to "date down" so he can maintain control. I suggested this when we were together, and he denied it - but of course, he would. He's a MAJOR control freak in everything he does - highly dominant in his career and life in general. I had stars exploding out of my eyeballs and heart the second we met, and I think being the object of adoration really gets him going because it gives him the upper hand. In a certain way, that was sexy and magnetic even to me. I had never been with a guy with that kind of power over me. But ultimately, I had to be true to myself. I figured out that it's critical for me to be with someone who truly loves me and supports me in rising to my full potential in this life. I couldn't submit to being his obedient bird in a very pretty cage, because that felt like selling out all my principles for mere comfort and luxury - which in the big picture are meaningless. Now I'm with a man who has told me in various ways that he'd love to do anything he can to help me rise to my greatest potential, and he backs that up with everything he does. I'm happy for you that you've begun to bloom and attract the honeybees It's good that you've worked your way "up" and can appreciate all kinds of women. To my ex's credit, the one woman he told me about that he had a crush on was truly beautiful. Not only was she physically gorgeous, she seemed like a genuinely good person with a good head on her shoulders. She approached him and subtly invited him to ask her out. He dismissed her for a petty reason (different religion), and looking back, I think he did it because he couldn't handle how out of control he felt about her emotionally. He couldn't stand to let the woman be the queen, because he was too attached to his vision for himself as the king. But I don't worry about him. He does very well as a bachelor, and when he's ready, he'll have his pick of beautiful, accomplished women. Or if he's determined to maintain the iron grip of control he has in his life, I'm sure he can find many women to fall in line with that plan. Mostly I'm happy that I had the inner strength to resist the gilded opportunity he was offering, and now I've found real love. And I genuinely hope he does, too. Last night I woke up from a beautiful dream. My man had me all snuggled up in his strong arms, and I was dreaming of being cuddled by him while this beautiful, romantic piece of music was playing. I wanted to spring out of bed and record the idea, because it was really good music, whatever it was. But I was too happy floating on the clouds with him to move 2
Versacehottie Posted July 20, 2015 Posted July 20, 2015 Thank you. This reminds me one evening with this current man, just before falling asleep he said I can tell you haven't had affectionate men in your life. I was taken back and did not know what to say. At the time I did not even want to ask why he was saying that. Kind of scares me to ask but I should. It sounds like just a line. He was blowing smoke. 1
Versacehottie Posted July 20, 2015 Posted July 20, 2015 I want to clarify to the people who are offended at my wording 'dating down'. Loosen up a little. I could have been more politically correct and say dating someone not my usual style, is that better? I also want to specify it's not about spending time with someone I don't find attractive and will end up resenting them, it's about giving a chance to someone I usually don't go for and surprisingly finding myself attracted to them after a few dates. It's like falling into my own trap. They're super into me at first, I am meh about them but decide to ride it anyway and see. I end up smitten and they're the one going meh. I'm just going to be honest. I think you did mean "dating down". It was in the context of what you put in your original post in describing his looks. An open mind is what you are trying to say now. The whole point is that unless you are truly clean slate open mind about it, you believe the deal is not an even one thus should be an easy get and believe you are better than him to begin with. Then for him the "shine" starts to come off. I'm just saying going in with an attitude like that you will not succeed. A person and a relationship is not a possession. Try to focus less on end goal (boyfriend, husband, relationship) and focus on minute by minute interactions. It lets you see things for what they are. Sorry. There's not a person that I've ever gone out with that I would classify that way. It compromises MY OWN integrity from the moment I say yes if I believe that. 2
Vintage79 Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 Every time I have dated down, look wise, THEY ended up dumping me. I don't understand this phenomena. You do? I met this man a few weeks ago, I thought he was so-so. He was too tall, too thin, his teeth needed some work, he only wore running shoes etc, Anyway, I decided to give it a few dates and to my surprise he grew on me! Then HE dumps me!! lol Every single time I gave a shot to a man I felt 'I can do better' he ended up dumping me, what's up with that? I don't know why you don't get it...most people don't really connect and break-up...they simply didn't like you. You're the common element, meaning that it's you. It wouldn't surprise me if you act differently around them than others, and flaunt a butchy air of superiority and think that you're doing them a favor. Moreover, what you're attracted to in Themis different than in other people, so it shouldn't be surprising that they're looking for something different. The gist, you didn't mutually match and your a bit delusional/arrogant in even thinking you're dating down...you are likely setting yourself up for defeat by exuding arrogance and superiority, which, FYI...not too attractive. 1
Author Gaeta Posted July 21, 2015 Author Posted July 21, 2015 I don't know what to tell you. When I met him I felt I could do better in terms of looks. I didn't dump him, I went ahead and kept dating him and the fact I kept on going on dates with an open mind, with someone that's not a 10, makes me shallow arrogant and gives me an air of superiority. Ok then. I am told every day of the week on here to stop aiming at hot, when I do it I come across as arrogant.
ascendotum Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 I am sure no one wants to be with someone who is settling for them. I would dump you too, and feel that I was lucky to get away. My instinct is to fully agree with you. I look at some of my friends and relatives relationships where to me its clear the women think they settled and I'm glad I'm not in their shoes. Is settling the same as dating down. I don't know it its quite the same. I guess with dating down its something that is more obvious to 3rd party observers, whereas if a person thinks they are settling, its more a mindset than an obvious comparison of the couple to 3rd party observers. I don't think in those relationship I referred to above that the women were above the guys league at all, but they still act like thay had to drop their expectations. Compared to their past flings/fwbs/ons or bfs in ther 20s they likely could well have. Getting settled for - forget it. To me that gets reflected in being treated less special by your partner, and I would resent it doubly if I thought the woman was not that great a catch herself. If however a gorgeous or high achieving woman wanted to date down and have me as a bf because she say wanted a guy that was safe & devoted and appreciated her more, I could totally go for that. It would only be crappy if she treated me crappy because she resented having to drop standards compared to her past hot/successful bfs. 1
jay1983 Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 I don't know what to tell you. When I met him I felt I could do better in terms of looks. I didn't dump him, I went ahead and kept dating him and the fact I kept on going on dates with an open mind, with someone that's not a 10, makes me shallow arrogant and gives me an air of superiority. Ok then. I am told every day of the week on here to stop aiming at hot, when I do it I come across as arrogant. It's the political correctness of the internet. They can't seem to figure out that you never treated or told them anything to indicate your thoughts about looks.
katiegrl Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 (edited) I don't know what to tell you. ***When I met him I felt I could do better in terms of looks.*** ***I didn't dump him, I went ahead and kept dating him and the fact I kept on going on dates with an open mind, with someone that's not a 10,*** makes me shallow arrogant and gives me an air of superiority. Ok then. I am told every day of the week on here to stop aiming at hot, when I do it I come across as arrogant. I'm just gonna be honest too, and the above post did not sound good Gaeta. And I think what some people see as arrogant are the quotes above in asterisk. And the fact (according to the above) you think you could do better in terms of looks when you are no super model yourself. You are attractive and look great for your age, but certainly not a 10 so why do you feel you deserve a 10 yourself? And a man who is *not* a 10 is beneath you? Yes that does sound quite arrogant. Just being honest. I know you have gotten 10's but let's face it, those men wanted sex and as soon as they got it, they disappeared. And to make matters sound even more arrogant, you say you continued to date him anyway even though he was beneath you? How noble of you. Let's give the girl a medal...ugh. I'm sorry but that is how your post came across. Anyhoo, I realize this was blunt.... but it's in direct response to your above post. I hope to God, because English is not your first language, that your post was just worded badly, and simply did not come out right. That you really don't believe that, because you think you are so hot, that any man less than a 10 is beneath you. And that your continuing to date him was not some act of mercy on your part...or because you were simply following advice given on this forum. I have always really liked you and respected you Gaeta, so again hopefully you simply worded your post badly, and that you really don't feel this way. Apologies if this post offended you....it was not an easy post for me to write. Edited July 21, 2015 by katiegrl 1
katiegrl Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 (edited) And to add to the above, in case you ask, whenever I have met a man I did not find all that attractive physically, the LAST thing I thought was "this man is not as hot/atttactive as I am, and I know I could do much better, BUT I will continue dating him anyway, maybe he will grow on me." Or LS members told me I should stop dating 10's so I will take their advice even though he is not a 10 and beneath me. What I AM thinking is (first thought)....."well, he is not all that attractive (TO ME), but I will talk to him a bit, and see if we have chemistry and feel a connection.". And if we DO have chemistry, suddenly that not so attractive man (again to me) .....becomes soooo much more attractive and special by virtue of the chemistry and connection we share. If I don't feel it by the end of the first date, I don't go out with him again. Next. Going out with him again knowing I feel no connection or chemistry with him, is wrong, unfair to him (and me), and a total waste of time (to both him and me). No one does anyone any favors by continuing to date someone when they either feel they are "better" than they are and can do "better"........ or like in my case just don't feel an attraction. Just my two cents FWIW. Edited July 21, 2015 by katiegrl
Author Gaeta Posted July 21, 2015 Author Posted July 21, 2015 Katie, you overblown everything I said 10 as an example. A 10 or a 9 or an 8-7-6, doesn't matter. No matter where I am in the scale of attractiveness, when I met him I felt I could do better in terms of looks. That's something you cannot judge as you have not seen him. When I showed his picture to my daughter she said really mom? Just accept my word on it, on first impression I could do better. Second, it's not about settling, not about dating beneath me, I said somewhere in this thread that if I had a choice over anyone I met so far I would pick HIM because even though I felt I could do better at first I REALLY grew into him and right now he is very attractive-hot-endearing to me. 1
MoreAmore Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 My instinct is to fully agree with you. I look at some of my friends and relatives relationships where to me its clear the women think they settled and I'm glad I'm not in their shoes. Is settling the same as dating down. I don't know it its quite the same. I guess with dating down its something that is more obvious to 3rd party observers, whereas if a person thinks they are settling, its more a mindset than an obvious comparison of the couple to 3rd party observers. I don't think in those relationship I referred to above that the women were above the guys league at all, but they still act like thay had to drop their expectations. Compared to their past flings/fwbs/ons or bfs in ther 20s they likely could well have. . I'm trying to figure out to whom that even occurs. I've been told by external parties that my exes were less attractive by conventional social norms but I never once thought, "I can do better in terms of looks" or "I can do better" period. All I ever think when I'm getting to know someone is - Am I interested in pursuing this person and the answer better be yes. Now, I do think my boyfriend now is better looking than me in conventional standards, but he adores my looks and they are in lines with his preferences. I know because I've seen the women he looks at or notices. It was not a case of giving me a chance when he was thinking he could do better. I'd feel sick to my stomach, even as a less conventionally attractive woman than I'm sure the OP must be. Looks are not important to me to be fair, but I've never isolated a single quality of a person or looked at them as if I'm trying to find the best job offer package that I need to comb through line item by line item. I'm trying to find another human being in entirety that clicks with me ultimately, good or bad. 1
Toodaloo Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 Gaeta honey. Do not date down. Its just not worth it. I have made it a policy to Date up. I go for the good looking guys who are what I am looking for. So far so much more success. 4 dates this week. I am shattered. AND they are all chasing me. I am not chasing them. They all have "down" points but those I can live with. They all treat women with respect and dignity and for the first time I am enjoying my dates and they seem to as well! There is none of the faffing about. If they just want to be friends or don't want to see me again they say as do I. Instead of the guilt trips and the nasty comments from some who were turned down or who faffed about about meeting up I am having frank, open and honest conversations with great men. OK so its not going to work out with all of them but I have to say its a great big step up at the moment. I am not going on half arsed dates thinking hum ha. I am going on dates where I want to meet them and they want to meet me. Date up! 1
autumnnight Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 I must be old...Actually I know I'm old. When I got to the post that said 3 days...all of this because he didn't test for 3 DAYS? I was thinking he fell of the planet for two weeks or something! 3 days... What exactly do young whipper snappers expect these days? Back to my walker and Geritol..... 1
BluEyeL Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 People, forget the "date up" or "date down" in terms of looks. That's not going to bring you happiness. Choose people based on whether or not they have a secure attachment style, low conflict personality, are consistent and open in showing their interest, show you respect, are kind, are stable emotionally and financially, and are not seeking novelty (based on their relationship history). Then, decide whether or not you'd be able to f*** them. I guarantee this is a recipe for lasting love. Ugh! Granted, very very few of those men in the dating pool (these are usually getting hitched and are successful so don't easily go back into the pool) , but moving on from the others quickly gives you a chance. And learn to recognize it when you finally hit gold. Don't pass them by, it may be years until you encounter another one. 5
Author Gaeta Posted July 21, 2015 Author Posted July 21, 2015 You guys seem to forget I totally grew into this man quickly AND I WANT TO DATE HIM. You're all talking like I've dismissed him because of his looks. I DIDN'T. HE dismissed ME. And NO I didn't make him feel like I was dating down. When we were out I hung on to him like Marily Monroe on Joe Dimaggio.
BluEyeL Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 You guys seem to forget I totally grew into this man quickly AND I WANT TO DATE HIM. You're all talking like I've dismissed him because of his looks. I DIDN'T. HE dismissed ME. And NO I didn't make him feel like I was dating down. When we were out I hung on to him like Marily Monroe on Joe Dimaggio. I personally didn't think you dismissed him. I am suggesting you simply completely forget the notion of dating "up" or "down" in terms of looks, since you asked about "our experience". My experience is that IT DOESN'T MATTER how he looks, but the above other characteristics to predict success. As for this man, just stop f*kking analyzing him so much and move on. Find a better man, whether he's tall, or short, has perfect teeth or not, is ugly or not. They're out there but hard to find. 2
Author Gaeta Posted July 21, 2015 Author Posted July 21, 2015 You bet I am never going to use that expression ever again. It's ok for a man to say his girlfriend is ugly http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/539118-dating-not-so-beautiful-girl but it's arrogant of me to use the expression dating down in terms of looks.
carhill Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 What otherwise was a usual and unremarkable dating dynamic which didn't work out got a unilaterally applied label of 'dating down' by apparently only one person in the dynamic, unless the guy specifically indicated that you were 'out of his league' and he didn't wish to date you anymore. Otherwise, examining his perspective is pure speculation. Hence, if so, we can only examine yours. Having gone from date to date and rejection to rejection for over a decade, heck nearer to 15 years, I came to see each interaction as unremarkable. Yep, they didn't work out. Life is like that sometimes. Perhaps that's merely the social conditioning of being a man who was commonly rejected, IDK. I never assigned better or worse to the people themselves. They were the exigent examples of life not being fair. It's life. 3
BluEyeL Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 You guys seem to forget I totally grew into this man quickly AND I WANT TO DATE HIM. You're all talking like I've dismissed him because of his looks. I DIDN'T. HE dismissed ME. And NO I didn't make him feel like I was dating down. When we were out I hung on to him like Marily Monroe on Joe Dimaggio. And why the heck do you want to date him? He doesn't treat you right, he doesn't have the predictors for long lasting success. Just move on to the next. 1
BluEyeL Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 You bet I am never going to use that expression ever again. It's ok for a man to say his girlfriend is ugly http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/539118-dating-not-so-beautiful-girl but it's arrogant of me to use the expression dating down in terms of looks. Speaking just for myself, I didn't think you were arrogant. I just thought you choose to ask about our experience with something that is completely irrelevant to relationship success, and as such, our 'experience' in the area (of dating people we perceive as being less attractive than us) can't bring any valuable insight for your actual situation (a man that dumped you/not treating you right). The guy who is dating "a not so beautiful girl" is similarly focusing on something that doesn't matter, as long as he can have good sex with the woman. I understand his problem is that his fellow men would not think he's top dog because he doesn't have "arm candy". That's also not important. But better to talk about him on his thread.
Redhead14 Posted July 21, 2015 Posted July 21, 2015 And why the heck do you want to date him? He doesn't treat you right, he doesn't have the predictors for long lasting success. Just move on to the next. This is what Gaeta does, she doesn't focus on her early dating needs or long term needs either. She switches approaches and likes, dislikes, etc. to accommodate a particular man/dating scenario. It doesn't matter what he looks like if he isn't treating her the way should be treated or dated. This is the root of her difficulties in dating. Whether he's attractive to her or not, if he's showing interest, she tries to fit herself into it. If she just stays focused on what a man brings to her table in the early stages alone, she will do better I think. 3
Author Gaeta Posted July 21, 2015 Author Posted July 21, 2015 And why the heck do you want to date him? He doesn't treat you right, he doesn't have the predictors for long lasting success. Just move on to the next. I don't want to date someone that doesn't treat me right. I am just trying to put the emphasis on the fact I did not dismiss him on his looks like many seem to think. He dismissed me. How many regular Joe Blow come on here complaining they can't get the attention of a nice decent woman? Well he got my attention and look what he did with it.
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