Dating a Flanders (Religious vs Atheist)

July 7, 2015

Jen isn't making sense. Agnostic isn't a position on god's existence but on whether god's existence is knowable. Saying I'm an agnostic ' is like saying 'I'm a fan '. Of which team, band, Sport?

The confusion about the concept of gnosis often renders these discussions unproductive, unsurprisingly.

I don't know any gnostic atheist and OP, dating a gnostic theist is probably not a good idea as a self declared (agnostic) atheist.

Huh?

You lost me at gnostic, isn't that a small creature that lives under mushrooms?

July 7, 2015

Probably no worse than a woman having to hear a man talk about fantasy football.

But with that it's just like "Yeah okay honey" and its likely he knows you don't much care about the topic.

People who are religious are passionate about it as OP said "The way she talks about it is about how it gives her guidance to do the right thing, help people, be kind, charitable, forgiving." .......it's her feelings and belief he will be expected to listen and im saying someone who's atheist won't feel the same way they just won't relate deeply and often they do grow tired of hearing about something they don't believe in so im saying yeah you should think long term if she ever had children it's likely she would want to raise them the same way as well and im just saying be sure to think long term because it would be apart of your life.

See as an atheist my way of thinking is well I can be kind, charitable and forgiving on my own without guidance it's hard to relate to a force driving me to be a better person when I choose to do that on my own.

All im saying is often they will find their thoughts will be mixed.

Edited July 7, 2015 by Omei

July 7, 2015

But with that it's just like "Yeah okay honey" and its likely he knows you don't much care about the topic.

People who are religious are passionate about it as OP said "The way she talks about it is about how it gives her guidance to do the right thing, help people, be kind, charitable, forgiving." .......it's her feelings and belief he will be expected to listen and im saying someone who's atheist won't feel the same way they just won't relate deeply and often they do grow tired of hearing about something they don't believe in so im saying yeah you should think long term if she ever had children it's likely she would want to raise them the same way as well and im just saying be sure to think long term because it would be apart of your life.

See as an atheist my way of thinking is well I can be kind, charitable and forgiving on my own without guidance it's hard to relate to a force driving me to be a better person when I choose to do that on my own.

All im saying is often they will find their thoughts will be mixed.

True, but I've also seen my share of Christians who aren't as Christian as you think. Talk is cheap.

I was originally a tad skeptical, but with the OP's open mind, I say GO FOR IT.

July 7, 2015

I say go for it too, but watch out. If you respect her views, she should respect yours. That means you don't have to go to church, and she sticks up for you with her family.

My personal view is to be accepting of all religions and ideas. At the core, it's about love. Whatever philosophy makes you a good person, whether its religion or a sense of ethics and morality based on something as simple as being kind, then I'm all for it. I don't judge...but don't judge me either. I allow for the many different ideas of God, as well as the idea of no God.

I'm a good person for the sake of being a good person. Period. Going to church doesn't make someone a good person. I think there are a lot of Christian hypocrites who think you can sin every day and go to church and you are magically forgiven and a good Christian. These types of people judge everyone else on the fact that they don't go to church, and not on their everyday behavior in life.

What matters is that you are a good person. Period. So, just make sure she likes who you are without converting you. In my experience, the family will pressure her to do just that.

I'm with a religious guy now. I was raised a Christian, but for some reason his family constantly asks him if I'm Christian, and if I go to church. I think they feel I am odd because I don't go to church, I dont believe in hunting for sport, and don't believe being gay is a sin. I believe in free will and using my (perhaps god given) brain and heart. Apparently that makes me a "nonbeliever." So watch out for that attitude. What really gets me is that most of the family has acted in very unchristian and immoral ways. But I will be judged by "appearance" of whether I go to church, and not by my moral and ethical behavior.

I tell you all this so you can be prepared, if necessary. Maybe learn a few bible quotes to use against them. My favorite is in the book of John in the bible. It simply says, "God is love, and all those who know love know God." Very appropriate and true. That thought makes the idea of organized religion somewhat unnecessary to the fundamental idea at hand.

So good luck. You two will be fine as long as you respect each other. ��

Edited July 7, 2015 by blueskyday

July 7, 2015

Probably no worse than a woman having to hear a man talk about fantasy football.

Except that religion makes specific rules on your sexuality, health, the food you can eat, the thoughts you can have and the people you can associate with.

On top of that it makes generally false, certainly unverifiable claims about the universe we live in and allows for magical thinking. OP, are you prepared to compromise in a relationship when your partner argues from a religious POV? Often serious theists are not prepared to review their position if religion conflicts with observation.

July 7, 2015

Huh?
You lost me at gnostic, isn't that a small creature that lives under mushrooms?

To be gnostic about x -> I can know x

To be agnostic about x -> I cannot know x

... though x might (not) exist.

From Wikipedia:

Gnosis is a feminine Greek noun, which means "knowledge".[2] It is often used for personal knowledge compared with intellectual knowledge (eidein), as with the French connaitre compared with savoir, or the German kennen rather than wissen.

A lot of people call themselves, or someone else, agnostic (about what?) but what they're really saying is that they think that the likelihood of the two claims god exists and god doesn't exist is the same. I actually never heard of a good argument for this.

July 7, 2015

Except that religion makes specific rules on your sexuality, health, the food you can eat, the thoughts you can have and the people you can associate with.

...Which are NOT universally accepted, adopted, or practised.

Christianity is not this all encompassing, "you're in or you're out" ideal, every person worships their god a different way.

This isn't the Islamic State, stop making out like it's this extreme.

She know right from the moment she read my profile that I was an atheist, she STILL chose me, and only me, to date.

July 7, 2015

To be gnostic about x -> I can know x
To be agnostic about x -> I cannot know x

... though x might (not) exist.

From Wikipedia:

A lot of people call themselves, or someone else, agnostic (about what?) but what they're really saying is that they think that the likelihood of the two claims god exists and god doesn't exist is the same. I actually never heard of a good argument for this.

*sigh...I was joking...I'm perfectly aware of the term.

July 7, 2015

Maybe learn a few bible quotes to use against them. My favorite is in the book of John in the bible. It simply says, "God is love, and all those who know love know God." Very appropriate and true. That thought makes the idea of organized religion somewhat unnecessary to the fundamental idea at hand.

So good luck. You two will be fine as long as you respect each other. ��

Thanks, I'll be sure to quote that one.

Yes, I'll be wary of any attempts to push back on me...but she started the whole conversation around religion based on the ideas of tolerance.

And when talking about relationships, she talked about them being hard work:

(I’m paraphrasing here, I don’t have perfect recall)

"A marriage is hard work, it's not a fantasy. People argue, people disagree. It’s about communication, compromise, accepting each other for who they are and not what you want them to be”

That doesn’t sound like she’s going to be shackling me to the cross.

July 7, 2015

I say go for it too, but watch out. If you respect her views, she should respect yours. That means you don't have to go to church, and she sticks up for you with her family.

My personal view is to be accepting of all religions and ideas. At the core, it's about love. Whatever philosophy makes you a good person, whether its religion or a sense of ethics and morality based on something as simple as being kind, then I'm all for it. I don't judge...but don't judge me either. I allow for the many different ideas of God, as well as the idea of no God.

I'm a good person for the sake of being a good person. Period. Going to church doesn't make someone a good person. I think there are a lot of Christian hypocrites who think you can sin every day and go to church and you are magically forgiven and a good Christian. These types of people judge everyone else on the fact that they don't go to church, and not on their everyday behavior in life.

What matters is that you are a good person. Period. So, just make sure she likes who you are without converting you. In my experience, the family will pressure her to do just that.

I'm with a religious guy now. I was raised a Christian, but for some reason his family constantly asks him if I'm Christian, and if I go to church. I think they feel I am odd because I don't go to church, I dont believe in hunting for sport, and don't believe being gay is a sin. I believe in free will and using my (perhaps god given) brain and heart. Apparently that makes me a "nonbeliever." So watch out for that attitude. What really gets me is that most of the family has acted in very unchristian and immoral ways. But I will be judged by "appearance" of whether I go to church, and not by my moral and ethical behavior.

I tell you all this so you can be prepared, if necessary. Maybe learn a few bible quotes to use against them. My favorite is in the book of John in the bible. It simply says, "God is love, and all those who know love know God." Very appropriate and true. That thought makes the idea of organized religion somewhat unnecessary to the fundamental idea at hand.

So good luck. You two will be fine as long as you respect each other. ��

whole conversation around religion based on the ideas of tolerance.

And when talking about relationships, she talked about them being hard work:

(I’m paraphrasing here, I don’t have perfect recall)

"A marriage is hard work, it's not a fantasy. People argue, people disagree. It’s about communication, compromise, accepting each other for who they are and not what you want them to be”

That doesn’t sound like she’s going to be shackling me to the cross.

July 7, 2015

Jen isn't making sense. Agnostic isn't a position on god's existence but on whether god's existence is knowable. Saying I'm an agnostic ' is like saying 'I'm a fan '. Of which team, band, Sport?

The confusion about the concept of gnosis often renders these discussions unproductive, unsurprisingly.

I don't know any gnostic atheist and OP, dating a gnostic theist is probably not a good idea as a self declared (agnostic) atheist.

This is one of those fruitless intellectual wanks that people who "know what that word really means" use to sound intelligent, when in fact it just makes them sound pretentious.

Yes that's how the word: "Agnostic" is technically defined.

But, whether right or wrong, most people take the term to mean:

"I'm not saying God is real, I'm saying I don't know."

That is a bee's dick difference in meaning, you really think that's worth arguing about?

July 7, 2015

I am atheist.

So yes, dating a believer would be a no go for me. I can respect other people's religious beliefs but I do not want to be surrounded by that day in and day out. I couldn't date someone who is so sure that God exists, when I am confident that there is no such thing as God.

July 7, 2015

This is one of those fruitless intellectual wanks that people who "know what that word really means" use to sound intelligent, when in fact it just makes them sound pretentious.

Yes that's how the word: "Agnostic" is technically defined.

But, whether right or wrong, most people take the term to mean:
"I'm not saying God is real, I'm saying I don't know."

That is a bee's dick difference in meaning, you really think that's worth arguing about?

I think the point all the Atheists in your thread are trying to make to you, is to remind you just how different the atheistic and theistic belief systems are, and that most theistic belief systems discredit atheistic belief systems and view it as a threat to their way of thinking.

It's possible that your girlfriend/fiance (?) may not ask you to attend church with her or read the Bible with her, but it's possible she may. The question is: can you as an atheist, have a relationship with a theist and not allow the differences negatively impact the relationship.

Since you both are single parents, if you are going to blend your families will it be a blend of atheism-theism or will one dominate the other? How will you balance the two opposing belief systems?

July 7, 2015

I think the point all the Atheists in your thread are trying to make to you, is to remind you just how different the atheistic and theistic belief systems are, and that most theistic belief systems discredit atheistic belief systems and view it as a threat to their way of thinking.

It's possible that your girlfriend/fiance (?) may not ask you to attend church with her or read the Bible with her, but it's possible she may. The question is: can you as an atheist, have a relationship with a theist and not allow the differences negatively impact the relationship.

Since you both are single parents, if you are going to blend your families will it be a blend of atheism-theism or will one dominate the other? How will you balance the two opposing belief systems?

My kids are adults, and don't live with me, I am not a "single parent"

July 8, 2015

^ Also, a fair look at the situation would allow for just as much possibility that the atheist party would attempt to impose their beliefs on the believer party (and children, way of life, etc.) and affect their quality of life, sensibilities, etc. Which happily it doesn't sound like yxalitis is inclined to do either.

July 8, 2015

^ Also, a fair look at the situation would allow for just as much possibility that the atheist party would attempt to impose their beliefs on the believer party (and children, way of life, etc.) and affect their quality of life, sensibilities, etc. Which happily it doesn't sound like yxalitis is inclined to do either.

And let's not forget that she is surely having the same thoughts, and conversation with friends family about this too.

SHE may decide it's a no goer...after careful consideration or advice from friends.

I should prepare myself for that too...

July 8, 2015

And let's not forget that she is surely having the same thoughts, and conversation with friends family about this too.

SHE may decide it's a no goer...after careful consideration or advice from friends.

I should prepare myself for that too...

I thought you had mentioned you were divorced with kids so that is why I referred to you as a single parent.

Since your children are adults (assuming hers are too) then my question is moot because it doesn't matter.

July 8, 2015

And let's not forget that she is surely having the same thoughts, and conversation with friends family about this too.

SHE may decide it's a no goer...after careful consideration or advice from friends.

I should prepare myself for that too...

Luckily she sounds pretty damn open-minded and tolerant.

July 8, 2015

Is this going to work?
What should I do…?

This was a major factor in my last breakup, which is sad because I am still madly in love with my ex. But anyway, it has been my experience that they say they won't try to force their beliefs on you, but they eventually do. My ex was okay with me not going to church in the beginning. Then I had to go with him sometimes. Then he started praying on the phone with me. Then he said I would have to pretend to be Christian for our future kids. It was a mess. Even after the breakup he said a lot of bad things about me being an atheist. Christians can be so hateful.

July 8, 2015

I think if two people are mature enough not to stereotype each other and let ego get in the way AND they are past the child-raising age, it can work.

Personally, I do not think I could be long term serious with someone who didn't share my faith, but it is NOT because I think they are reprobates or I am better. It is just something I would like to be able to share. Not exactly the same, but it would be like trying to have a relationship with someone who hated kids or did care anything about the arts. We just would not have some very fundamental things in common.

However, it sounds like she is not one of those Pharisees masquerading as Christians, and it sounds like you are not one of those people who have a chip on their shoulder masquerading as an atheist, so you can probably find a middle ground.

It generally boils down to the ability of both parties to be honest, mature, and emotionally intelligent.

July 8, 2015

I think if two people are mature enough not to stereotype each other and let ego get in the way AND they are past the child-raising age, it can work.

Personally, I do not think I could be long term serious with someone who didn't share my faith, but it is NOT because I think they are reprobates or I am better. It is just something I would like to be able to share. Not exactly the same, but it would be like trying to have a relationship with someone who hated kids or did care anything about the arts. We just would not have some very fundamental things in common.

However, it sounds like she is not one of those Pharisees masquerading as Christians, and it sounds like you are not one of those people who have a chip on their shoulder masquerading as an atheist, so you can probably find a middle ground.

It generally boils down to the ability of both parties to be honest, mature, and emotionally intelligent.

Thanks, good feedback.

Weren't the Pharisees an aspect of Judaism, not Christianity?

I don't understand your reference...but I guess you're saying she's not a hard liner.

July 8, 2015

She know right from the moment she read my profile that I was an atheist, she STILL chose me, and only me, to date.

Right on.

She sounds pretty special, Yxalitis. Definitely worth a shot!!

You know, no one can EVER be so sure of what's out there and what's not. There have been avowed atheists who've had near death experiences and came back to life being full-on believers. Not necessarily Christians, but believing that there's life beyond the grave. My own mom actually "died" in the emergency room and was watching from the side as they were working on her with the paddles. (She was not an atheist but wasn't religious.) Personally, I'd rather believe in God and be wrong than NOT believe and be wrong.

July 8, 2015

Personally, I'd rather believe in God and be wrong than NOT believe and be wrong.

Except, of course, that shouldn't matter, you should be judged (if that's what you mean) on how you live your life, not whether you chose to publicly display your faith through religion affectations.

July 8, 2015

the atheist party

Just thinking that would be a boring party...

July 8, 2015

Except, of course, that shouldn't matter, you should be judged (if that's what you mean) on how you live your life, not whether you chose to publicly display your faith through religion affectations.

No, not talking about religion at all, just that if I went all atheist and it turned out I was wrong, I'd feel pretty crappy about all the people I felt superior to and tried to dissuade, especially since sometimes (unfortunately) that's all some people have to keep them from completely losing it.

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Dating a Flanders (Religious vs Atheist)

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