Dating a Flanders (Religious vs Atheist)

[yxalitis]

Don't fight it ... just go toward the light

 

Guess you're a Christian!

[jen1447]

Met a new girl in OLD.

 

Is this going to work?

What should I do…?

It CAN work if you take this as a man-up moment and allow her her personal discretion and freedom of thought.

 

It sounds like you're an agnostic. Good for you (not being an athiest). If you want, I can debate you on how athiesm is unjustified and agnosticism is, but *don't* pile that on her. Rs can exist without religious debates and with fundamental philosophical disagreements, believe it or not. Are you man enough to let it be what it is?

[joseb]

As a Christian, technically she's not supposed to "fool around" before marriage, either...

 

In most parts of the world, this is very much a thing of the past.

[joseb]

Is it a deal breaker?

I say this because it has been in the past.

I dated an older lady when I was in my 20’s, who was super religious, and took me to church etc…

She also said that it didn’t matter…but it WAS a factor in our break up (that and she was “in love” in a few weeks, and super controlling)

I don’t get the feeling (So far) that this new girl is pushy about it, but she does mention God and Jesus in casual conversation

...

 

What should I do…?

 

It's a tough one. I'm close to atheist (I don't think anyone can be 100% sure about anything, and I don't like the dogma, so I'd not call myself one).

But I think if she was really special and I felt a great connection, I might be prepared to see where it goes.

 

If it turned into a quest to convert me though, I don't think that would fly.

[yxalitis]

It's a tough one. I'm close to atheist (I don't think anyone can be 100% sure about anything, and I don't like the dogma, so I'd not call myself one).

But I think if she was really special and I felt a great connection, I might be prepared to see where it goes.

 

If it turned into a quest to convert me though, I don't think that would fly.

Yes, agreed on that last point.

If I felt that was starting to happen, I would simply sit her down and talk to her about it.

Whilst she has said that she respects individual choice, we'll see how that pans out.

I'm optimistic though.

[yxalitis]

It CAN work if you take this as a man-up moment and allow her her personal discretion and freedom of thought.

 

It sounds like you're an agnostic. Good for you (not being an athiest). If you want, I can debate you on how athiesm is unjustified and agnosticism is, but *don't* pile that on her. Rs can exist without religious debates and with fundamental philosophical disagreements, believe it or not. Are you man enough to let it be what it is?

You've challenged my manhood twice in one post!

Yes, I can accept her faith, and allow for her to accept my beliefs.

I will have to caution my children, who WILL want to debate her on aspects of religion...

I'll also have to explain to them how I can date a religious person after the upbringing I gave them.

And, yes, I've left the door open for the possibility of a "divine power", but I don't think it has been correctly described by any human religion yet.

[writergal]

You've challenged my manhood twice in one post!

Yes, I can accept her faith, and allow for her to accept my beliefs.

I will have to caution my children, who WILL want to debate her on aspects of religion...

I'll also have to explain to them how I can date a religious person after the upbringing I gave them.

And, yes, I've left the door open for the possibility of a "divine power", but I don't think it has been correctly described by any human religion yet.

 

Actually, Jodi Foster's character Ellie Arroway in the movie Contact gives a great description when she first sees the Vega system:

 

Some celestial event. No - no words. No words to describe it. Poetry! They should've sent a poet. So beautiful. So beautiful... I had no idea.

 

Then, in another scene Ellie Arroway (Jodi Foster says):

 

So what's more likely? That an all-powerful, mysterious God created the Universe, and decided not to give any proof of his existence? Or, that He simply doesn't exist at all, and that we created Him, so that we wouldn't have to feel so small and alone?

[jen1447]

You've challenged my manhood twice in one post!

Yes, I can accept her faith, and allow for her to accept my beliefs.

Then you're good to go. Well done, sir.

[S_A]

My GF is religious. I'm atheist. She is the daughter of a pretty renowned pastor. We've been together for 4.5 years and she is "the one". I don't see why your relationship can't work unless you have some sort of "beef" with religion in general. For us, I don't even think it's been a talking point.

 

Though I don't believe that a deity even may exist, I believe that there is good that comes from being religious. It would not bother me if I had kids and they became religious. If you don't have some sort of religion-phobia, I don't see why there'd be a problem. If she's a church goer, would you not accompany her?

[todreaminblue]

i think if you are true christian...your beliefs and values effect not only sunday hours but every hour......so its not just a matter of attending church but a matter of life direction and purpose....i think it would be hard if you were atheist to be with a true christian woman...god does move in mysterious ways though and if you are meant to be together ....you will be ..hell or high water...good luck....deb

[veggirl]

If I was older and not interested in making a family I could *maybe* date a Christian. It would depend...I mean a right wing conservative Christian...no...but a more liberal Christian, possibly. Being that I'm interested in a family though, it'd be a 100% dealbreaker because I'm not interested in raising kids in a church.

[baco]

In order for the relantionship to work long term, I believe that you should antecipate some potencial problems and talk about them, for instance if you think about having children in the future, will they be raised in religion ? How's her view on pre marital sex, does she want a religious wedding ?

 

It may seem all fine now, but such believe differences can put a huge strain in a relantionship.

 

I'm agnostic, my wife is atheist, so we get along fine, but even then my very religious family had a hard time acepting that we would not have a religious weding or that we would not raise our children in religion either.

 

It's not a doomed relantionship, it can work, but I believe that is essential for both of you to sit down and establish some ground rules before getting serious, if you both chose to push the issue foward and decide things as you go, things can get messy.

[yxalitis]

Thanks all, pretty good set of replies.

Children are not in the equation, we've both had our families already.

I even said "I've thought about whether I'd start a new family..."

And she said: "just wait for the grandchildren!"

As for sex before marriage, I doubt she's that string...but I will gently raise the question next time I see her...

Because, to be frank..that would be a deal breaker!

 

Any advice on how to raise THAT questions??

[neowulf]

Because, to be frank..that would be a deal breaker!

 

Any advice on how to raise THAT questions??

 

As candidly and honestly as you can;

 

"I understand that some Christians take "no sex before marriage" very seriously and I wondered how you felt about it?"

[kendahke]

In most parts of the world, this is very much a thing of the past.

 

Man may change, but the word of God doesn't. It's pretty explicit on its denunciation of fornication.

[joseb]

Man may change, but the word of God doesn't. It's pretty explicit on its denunciation of fornication.

 

Having grown up in a 99% Christian country, and spent a lot of time in south america, I do not find a lot of people paying any attention to that part of the teachings!

[yxalitis]

Man may change, but the word of God doesn't. It's pretty explicit on its denunciation of fornication.

Rubbish...the word of God has been interpreted a million different ways by a million different groups to justify a million different beliefs.

Look at the huge number of churches based on Christianity, you've never heard of protestants vs Catholics, for example.

And don't even get me started on the interpretation of Islam...hello!

[jen1447]

Thanks all, pretty good set of replies.

Children are not in the equation, we've both had our families already.

I even said "I've thought about whether I'd start a new family..."

And she said: "just wait for the grandchildren!"

As for sex before marriage, I doubt she's that string...but I will gently raise the question next time I see her...

Because, to be frank..that would be a deal breaker!

 

Any advice on how to raise THAT questions??

 

You two haven't fornicated yet? Seems like when nature takes its course (which it will) the question will kind of resolve itself.

[umirano]

Yxalitis, you're likely wrong about the big bang. Observation of large structures in our universe and literally a truckload of other evidence, e.g. background radiation patterns, show that all matter originates from one single point in space. Actually a priest at the Vatican observatory made a key contribution to the big bang theory by observing the movements of galaxies. There is no evidence suggesting a concerted effort to manipulate the scientific community.

 

On another note atheism means agnostic atheism, philosophically speaking,I think that is clear to everyone. I take it that everyone here is an agnostic a-easterbunnyeist.

 

I think in the middle run dating a theist can work for atheists, personally I have no long-term success stories though. I suggest getting her to know a little better. Some people are open to clearing away the cobwebs and giving up unfounded beliefs.

[LoveRefreshed]

I wouldn't do it. I am a hardcore atheist meaning that I don't believe in it. As a scientist, I can agree that I can't prove it, so I don't go around judging others. An agnostic says "We can't prove it so I don't know", where I am saying we can't prove it, but I believe...

 

Anyway, as to why I wouldn't.

 

First, let's talk about your "typical" Christian (maybe she isn't but I bet she will have some friends who are) that will be against things like gay marriage which is something I will never let go, as one example. There will be deep seeded beliefs in which you may disagree with her and her reasoning will be "the bible says".

 

Secondly, pressure from her family (moms are the ficken worst) to adopt their view points and a lack of respect for yours is most likely the case.

 

Third, when things get serious and you have children. What do you do? I do not want to baptize my kids and start lying to them from the start. I don't want to indoctrinate them into religion. This girl will want to do all of those things, so how do you feel about your children being told about jeus when they are young?

 

It seems like not a big deal at first, but I think religious differences can be incredibly stressful on relationships.

[S_A]

I feel like so many atheists resent religion or something. I'm an athesit and if I had kids and they wanted to be church goers, then good for them. Actually, I would desire my kids be church goers because there is a lot of fundamental lessons to be learned from religion.

 

I went to a religious school through 3rd grade and it was the best time I had in school even though I've grown to be an atheist. If you are naive enough to believe that "most of the world's wars were started because of religion" then that's your problem. The reality is that those wars would have happened anyway but for other superficial reasons.

 

I say get into a relationship with her, but don't be a puss and not go to church if she wants to go. Just go and be respectful. I don't see it much different than her going to a sports game with you because you're fanatically in love with your favorite sports team even though she doesn't give a rip (not trying to say that a sports team is on the level of religious faith, just trying to make an analogy here).

[LoveRefreshed]

I don't resent religion, but many atheist have several reasons to resent it. You know, years of being told you can't marry the one you love because it violates their beliefs. I only resent people who feel it necessary to push their beliefs upon you.

 

You may be okay with your kids going to church, but not everyone is. Also, I wouldn't be against it if my kids came up and asked me if they could go to church. That doesn't mean I'm going to take them to church before they've developed the ability to think critically about the messages being told. I don't want my kids to come out being close minded and bigoted towards other belief systems and other's points of view.

[umirano]

I feel like so many atheists resent religion or something. I'm an athesit and if I had kids and they wanted to be church goers, then good for them. Actually, I would desire my kids be church goers because there is a lot of fundamental lessons to be learned from religion.

 

The abrahamitic religions are essentially fascist ideologies (one all knowing leader, one perfect book, one right way to do things) so I'd rather have my kids stay away from it. Luckily a lot of theists are 'bad' believers and good people instead.

[yxalitis]

Yxalitis, you're likely wrong about the big bang. Observation of large structures in our universe and literally a truckload of other evidence, e.g. background radiation patterns, show that all matter originates from one single point in space. Actually a priest at the Vatican observatory made a key contribution to the big bang theory by observing the movements of galaxies. There is no evidence suggesting a concerted effort to manipulate the scientific community.

 

On another note atheism means agnostic atheism, philosophically speaking,I think that is clear to everyone. I take it that everyone here is an agnostic a-easterbunnyeist.

 

I think in the middle run dating a theist can work for atheists, personally I have no long-term success stories though. I suggest getting her to know a little better. Some people are open to clearing away the cobwebs and giving up unfounded beliefs.

On the Big Bang theory:

Philosophically, its utter nonsense, the universe is, in every interpretation of the word, infinite.

Infinite in size, in scale, in time. It can ONLY be this way.

Scientifically, it is the most fudged, modified, and misinterpreted theory in history.

It has required the invention of Dark Matter Dark Energy, Inflation, etc.

Also there is a lot of inertia in scientific communities, you want funding to research the Big Bang, well, that’;s the established and accepted theory, here, have some money

Oh, you want to research another theory of the universe, sorry, no money for you, no time on the big telescope, we don’t fund fringe science.

 

No scientist can talk about "before the big bang" that term is not something they can explain, so they ignore it.

Time, they say, began with the big bang, but time requires change, without change there is no time. Without time, the singularity cannot “change” to become the universe that implies a timeline…which we don’t have.

 

The points you raise are like Big Bang 101, you seriously don’t think I’ve heard and researched all these terms?

I’m not some naïve Moon Hoax theorist clutching a picture of the ‘C’ rock.

There is growing evidence that the Big Bang theory is fundamentally wrong, but trying to change a decades old theory is incredible difficult.

Read:

Some recent evidence against the Big Bang - Less Wrong

The Fall of the Big Bang Theory

Evidence for Cosmic Inflation Theory Bites the (Space) Dust

Open your mind to the possibility that it’s wrong.

[yxalitis]

You two haven't fornicated yet? Seems like when nature takes its course (which it will) the question will kind of resolve itself.

Fornicated...lol, good word choice.

I don't think it will be a problem, she was pretty touchy/feely last time.