Casual Sex and Its Discontents

[preraph]

I had one more thought on this subject, and that is that I think people often confuse casual sex with cheating. You could have only slept with one person in your lifetime and then if you sleep with your second one while you are still committed to the first, you are a cheater.

 

You can have slept with 150 women and if you didn't lie to any of them telling them you were committed to them or telling them they are the only one you're seeing or hiding that you're seeing other women, you aren't necessarily a cheater. Of course, it's very rare that many women will go out with someone they know is seeing a lot of other women, so you don't see that play being run successfully very often, especially today (and you shouldn't because of disease).

 

I did know a guy who was sleeping with several women at once (in the 70s) and he was totally up front about it and most of the women were all in the room together at some point or other. And yes, some of them got in a twist about it, but he never misrepresented himself. He was very open about liking lots of women. I didn't consider him a cheater or even disrespectful. He really liked women and it wasn't all just sex to him. He befriended them and was lots of fun. He was respectful of them as far as he wasn't playing them. However, that thing imploded when one said she was pregnant (and you had to wonder if it was a bluff or was on purpose because she was well aware of the competitiion). Fortunately, I left town about that time and didn't stick around for the fallout, but he was still in one piece a couple years later when he was sleeping with my best girlfriend up there and they both called me one night to offer to pay my airfare up. I didn't go because I was in love. P.S. that girlfriend is coming to see me for the first time in years this week. That's casual.

 

But it's not fair to label a person a cheater just because he/she dates/screws around unless they've misrepresented themself to you as being exclusive. But of course, if you put on your social media you only want serious and someone is ignoring that, that's dishonest and disrespectful, too.

[candie13]

^ It's just impossible to tell if someone is the one online. They can seem perfect (much easier to seem perfect on paper than in reality for one thing) and then you meet and it's just not there. Or you can fall for someone unlike anyone you thought you'd fall for because your personalities just work well together but you may not have that much in common except a wonderful rapport.

 

It's great to have standards, but to me, those should be about the basics, like the person is respectful, gainfully employed, doesn't lie, etc.

 

absolutely 100% accurate. I'm sick and tired of all those high standards. As someone was putting it, it's only dating, not curing cancer ! Becoming aware of that took a huge pressure off my shoulders. The trick to online dating is to make sure they're not a stalker, married with kids. For me, my must condition is - not looking for hook up. After that, I just meet them for drinks. It either works or it doesn't.

[candie13]

I had one more thought on this subject, and that is that I think people often confuse casual sex with cheating.

 

But it's not fair to label a person a cheater just because he/she dates/screws around unless they've misrepresented themself to you as being exclusive. But of course, if you put on your social media you only want serious and someone is ignoring that, that's dishonest and disrespectful, too.

 

I think people associate casual sex with lying and acting in a dishonest way - as in leading people on. The common male thinking in my part of town is that in order for women to stick around and continue to have more casual sex, they (the women) have to think (or be lead to think) that there's more to it than just sex. Hence the (male engineered) mind games, leading on and yes, sometimes straight on lying.

 

A guy on this board said a smart thing "there's no fcking unless there's mindfcking". To me, that's the scariest part, and not the diseases.

[preraph]

absolutely 100% accurate. I'm sick and tired of all those high standards. As someone was putting it, it's only dating, not curing cancer ! Becoming aware of that took a huge pressure off my shoulders. The trick to online dating is to make sure they're not a stalker, married with kids. For me, my must condition is - not looking for hook up. After that, I just meet them for drinks. It either works or it doesn't.

 

Yes. And that's just dating. As long as you are not a woman who can't say no, that is definitely the way to go. But there are a lot of women out there who fear saying no, so they don't want to risk going out with someone until they're pretty sure they like them. Of course, since you can't even tell that online and through texting, it's a broken method and it's better to be strong enough to say "No thanks, we're not right, but thanks for coffee."

[preraph]

I think people associate casual sex with lying and acting in a dishonest way - as in leading people on. The common male thinking in my part of town is that in order for women to stick around and continue to have more casual sex, they (the women) have to think (or be lead to think) that there's more to it than just sex. Hence the (male engineered) mind games, leading on and yes, sometimes straight on lying.

 

A guy on this board said a smart thing "there's no fcking unless there's mindfcking". To me, that's the scariest part, and not the diseases.

 

Yes, that is the biggest problem: Lying. And all of us have been fooled at one time or another, though I've found if you're fiesty and not always on your best behavior, you'll filter some of those guys out. And just don't stop dating someone else because you started dating some guy you barely know. That's the mistake a lot of women make. If the woman is going to sit home being faithful to a new man without any commitment from him, what possible incentive does he have to even think about making a commitment. Men make commitment either because they're mature and ready for something serious OR to keep someone else from getting her. Early on, it's going to be the latter, so keep dating others and don't assume anything from him.

[lollipopspot]

Do you think men and women would be having more casual sex if there wasn't the historical example of rape, harassment and brutality against women?

 

Yes. I know a gay guy who gets an itch and posts on Craigslist for casual encounters, goes out, has fun, and comes home. For women to do that it might be suicidal (some do, but it's quite dangerous).

 

A guy picking up a prostitute in his car is generally safe (except legally). The prostitute may be raped and murdered.

 

I think most women (I would say "all," but some women have no sense of self preservation or danger, and some women are in denial) keep their radar up about safety around strange men and being alone and naked with them. Bar hookups do happen, but I think that attractive stranger in the bar would be more likely to get laid if women didn't have that voice in the back of their minds saying that they really don't know him and could get raped or brutalized if alone and vulnerable with him.

[elaine567]

preraphs situation was ideal for casual sex from a female point of view.

The group identifies the personalities of the people involved, they do the filtering and thus casual sex is a lot safer. Any guy acting strange is going to be given a wide berth and the woman in the group will alert others if they ever felt unsafe with him. Guys in the group will also advise women if a man has any weird attitudes or they consider him unsafe.

 

Sleeping with a totally random stranger is dangerous for women, no point of reference, no security, no back up plan and often no-one else even knows. She is putting herself in a very vulnerable position.

[preraph]

preraphs situation was ideal for casual sex from a female point of view.

The group identifies the personalities of the people involved, they do the filtering and thus casual sex is a lot safer. Any guy acting strange is going to be given a wide berth and the woman in the group will alert others if they ever felt unsafe with him. Guys in the group will also advise women if a man has any weird attitudes or they consider him unsafe.

 

Sleeping with a totally random stranger is dangerous for women, no point of reference, no security, no back up plan and often no-one else even knows. She is putting herself in a very vulnerable position.

 

And I want to be honest here and say that there is always some risk. I did get in a bad situation once with a guy who I didn't realize had been stalking me. I'd seen him at clubs talking to people I knew and trusted, but see, they didn't know his dark side. I didn't know any other women he'd seen, only knew some guys he was friendly with and they were oblivious. His personality changed as soon as the door closed. But I have to say, yes, that would have been a casual sex encounter, but it would have happened just the same if he'd, say, come in to where I worked and chatted me up and asked me out. So I don't feel casual sex made this bad encounter happen. I feel it would have happened anyway, even if he was trying to court me, because I didn't know he was stalking me and he was someone I thought looked okay and knew some cool guys I knew.

[preraph]

preraphs situation was ideal for casual sex from a female point of view.

The group identifies the personalities of the people involved, they do the filtering and thus casual sex is a lot safer. Any guy acting strange is going to be given a wide berth and the woman in the group will alert others if they ever felt unsafe with him. Guys in the group will also advise women if a man has any weird attitudes or they consider him unsafe.

Sleeping with a totally random stranger is dangerous for women, no point of reference, no security, no back up plan and often no-one else even knows. She is putting herself in a very vulnerable position.

 

All true, but with some caveats. First, they have to know what's going on to advise you, and many times they don't. But if the situation isn't too political, you can always just ask about someone and see what they say. I didn't do that often enough because I didn't always want the group knowing my business, but they knew a good bit of it anyway because the grapevine was crazy fast in that crowd. So eventually, everyone knew everything.

 

But I will say that sometimes they will warn you off someone for some other reason. Like me and this guitarist in a local band were considered an item, but because of complex issues of his I wasn't even privy to then, he resisted being known as a couple and we weren't really even sleeping together (impotence, but I didn't know that at the time). It was a strong relationship in many ways. But of course that couldn't last forever since he wasn't functioning and wouldn't tell me why he wasn't being sexual, so at some point I had to move on and see other people. I had been seeing other people and so had he.

 

Well, the band's old drummer came back to town. I hadn't been there long enough to have known him, but I had a friend who had lived in his same apt complex growing up. So I had her telling me he was a fun but crazy guy. He was a known flirt and general f**kup. I wouldn't have just gone after him with those references, but he saw me walking home and flirted with me from his car and then found out I was a known entity and started flirting while out on the town with both me and my voluptuous roommate. Openly fickle.

 

So one day he just shows up at my door. A few minutes later, two band members show up coming to get him. It was like the band police, and they drug the drummer away. They did not want him there, and I'm sure it's because of any effect (broken strings most probably) it would have had on the guy I was close to. But it might have also been protection because as I say, he was a notorious f**kup, and they knew him well.

 

I didn't feel like being held back since I'd moved on from the guy who was now a friend, and me and the drummer did end up going on a tear one night and as ill luck would have it, pulled right up next to other band members on the street, so by the next day, everyone knew. I didn't much care. I don't usually do things I wouldn't want anybody to know. The guitarist, of course, found out right away and had come by the apt. bright and early and my roommate sent him away. So he was waiting for me at work when I got there, mostly just trying to let me know he was aware of my movements. He had a sense of humor about it, because after all, it was him keeping us from really being a couple.

 

To make matters, worse, in a couple of weeks, the drummer and I both broke out in poison ivy. To this day, 40 years later, there are people who remember nothing more about me than that I got poison ivy with that drummer.

 

But yeah, having a crowd really helps, but only if you take their advice!