What I didn't know didn't hurt me????

[fellini]

Why would you couch your view in "no offence"?

 

Of course they know the truth. And another truth that they know, is that they do not want to end their marriages over a stupid affair that never should have happened.

 

They know the truth that if they keep it to themselves, and learn from what they have done, they can be become better partners, having experienced a near death, that they can improve.

 

 

No offense but the people I see take that attitude are pretty much always the ones who already know the truth.

[Zenstudent]

An undiscovered affair with no negative consequences, or an exposed affair with emmediate consequences to the unfaithfull spouse - I wonder which scenario is the most likely basis for a repetitive offense?

 

If the BS is kept in the dark, it may be less painfull today, but how does it feel to learn 20 years from now, that infidelity occured every 2 years for more than 20 years?

 

I would much rather rip the band aid off, choose my path, and move on - in whatever direction.

[jen1447]

Why would you couch your view in "no offence"?

 

Of course they know the truth. And another truth that they know, is that they do not want to end their marriages over a stupid affair that never should have happened.

 

They know the truth that if they keep it to themselves, and learn from what they have done, they can be become better partners, having experienced a near death, that they can improve.

 

Um, bc I don't want to offend you?

 

Anyway yes, the people who choose not to share the truth know the truth. What I'm saying is that they're also usually the ones who believe that keeping it to themselves is some sort of noble virtue, whereas the people who are out of the loop would much rather know than be 'spared' the painful truth. (Such as when they find out later and feel like fools bc of it.)

[truncated]

I think there's a difference, and I may sound inconsistant when I say this. I'm OK with it if my wife decides, that she no longer want to be with me and choose divorce. I'm not OK with if she chooses an open marriage without telling me about it.

 

I know both decisions are made by her, and I can do nothing about it, but there's still a difference - IMO.

 

Knowing your spouse has cheated isn't all about controlling their behavior, it's about putting you in a position where you can make informed choices about your life.

 

Not everyone who cheats will cheat again, but that risk may not be one everyone is willing to take.

 

Also, most want their spouse to be honest with them about the big issues, and this is certainly one of them. As an adult, shouldn't they have the right to know about something as major as this?

[truncated]

I agree. And there is a difference.

 

But some of us feel that IF an affair took place, and so there is nothing we can do about it, what's done, is done, that the decision, for some of us, is not between tell or not tell, it is between introduce unnecessary trauma or not.

 

We are not supposed to hurt people. For some of us not unnecesarily permanently damaging a human being is higher than what I consider to be a "loftier" concept of "truth". And the cliche that "truth hurts" is no consolation.

 

it is not the truth that hurts, it's was the affair. It's like finding out the truth that you have cancer. The cancer is what's killing you, the truth is what allows you to face it and do something about it.

[truncated]

Um, bc I don't want to offend you?

 

Anyway yes, the people who choose not to share the truth know the truth. What I'm saying is that they're also usually the ones who believe that keeping it to themselves is some sort of noble virtue, whereas the people who are out of the loop would much rather know than be 'spared' the painful truth. (Such as when they find out later and feel like fools bc of it.)

 

It's interesting that some of the same people who advocate for keeping the affair a secret are the same who say that a ws cheats partly because of what the bs is/is not doing.

 

Sounds like a bad catch-22. If the bs knew about the affair, then the issues in the marriage that the ws says led them to cheat can be addressed, while keeping it quiet allows those same things to continue.

[central]

it is not the truth that hurts, it's was the affair. It's like finding out the truth that you have cancer. The cancer is what's killing you, the truth is what allows you to face it and do something about it.

 

It's neither. The truth itself doesn't hurt. If the affair was never discovered, it would never hurt either. All would seem normal, if it's not one of those affairs that creates distance and tension in the relationship (but the BS doesn't know why). It's the radical change in our beliefs and assumptions that hurts, and the realization that your spouse betrayed promises. If the WS wised up and never repeats the infidelity, and devotes themselves even more strongly to the marriage, that seems like a good outcome. Revelation would not serve to increase anyone's happiness or well-being. We already all live a lie because we never know the full truth about things done to us by partners, family, friends, government, and corporations. Some are beneficial to us, and others are harmful. Yet, we have little choice about most of these, and manage to live with them - often quite happily.

 

 

The cancer analogy is flawed too - though it does apply in some cases. If it's a slow growing prostate cancer, you'll die of other causes long before the cancer can kill you, yet the knowledge that you have it can be a constant source of worry and unhappiness. Since treatment for these is often worse than the disease, you might be much happier never knowing or worrying about it, living in ignorance.

[star gaze]

IMO, in these cases, ignorance is bliss in the same way as being poisoned very slowly until you wither gradually and die years later, thinking everything was sunshine and butterfly.

 

I can understand:

When you are in the throes of pain and anguish, you may wish you had never found out.

When you have your everything invested in relationship (money, time, children), and the aspect of starting over daunts you or is no longer practical (i.e disability, oldage) and your WS assures you that “it was once in a life time mistake, a reversible stain against his/her core character, never to happen again”, you may wish you had never found out. You would never leave anyways, so the pain is only gratuitous.

It was ONS or a drunken slip, you may wish you had never found out.

 

I personally believe that most affairs, even undiscovered and ended, would have negative consequences in the relationship. It’s akin to very slow poisoning; the BS will be befuddled why the marriage is so suddenly bad? Why is s/he walking on egg shells in their own house, not knowing when SO will blow up or run away crying; while WS would be pining/ crying in the shower and car/ avoiding communication and intimacy with SO etc.

[fellini]

I personally find this to be totally LS based.

 

Look I get that some people would want to know. I get it, and I respect that. But that is not me. Not by a long shot. Nor is saying what you said for me, the only interpretation, which is precisely what people in LS (lets be honest, what BS's in LS say whenever this comes up).

 

Well I am a BS and I do believe that some WS's are capable of keeping it to themselves because they know that no good will come of it.

 

And I don't care or believe they necessarily call it a noble virtue.

 

Others keep it to themselves because they know their WH's will end up in prison having beaten the living daylights out of the AP. (We have evidence of this in LS)

 

Some keep it to themselves for fear of their own safety. (Lots of stories here)

 

We have even in LS one story where he refused to tell because he had a short affair with a sister, ended it, and she died. He felt it best to keep it quiet out of respect for those who cannot defend themselves.

 

 

Others keep it to themselves because they know their WH's will kick them to the curb without the slightest hesitation. (We have evidence of this in LS)

 

Others keep it to themselves because they got into a silly ONS, felt horrible about it, made themselves feel like ****, and move on. (Im sure this happens more than people care to admit)

 

Others keep it to themselves because they got away with it, and are hoping to continue to do so just becuase they are cowards and don't want to face the music. Nothing to do with BS. (We have evidence of this in LS)

 

And Im sure there are lots of reasons for other people to both tell, and to not tell.

 

But what is strange is (not you personally) that here there are posters who DENY US OUR right to our view, they challenge OUR VIEW if it isn't "I would want to know". They suggest we don't really know what we are talking about. That we are rugsweepers, etc. This is not the first time this topic has come up.

 

There is, and I know you have seen it here, an intolerance and complete denial that it is possible that some of us don't want to know, and that we have a solid reason for saying so.

 

It's like those of us who say WE wish we didn't know, or don't want to know, have no idea what we are saying.

 

What I'm saying is that they're also usually the ones who believe that keeping it to themselves is some sort of noble virtue, whereas the people who are out of the loop would much rather know than be 'spared' the painful truth. (Such as when they find out later and feel like fools bc of it.)

Edited June 20, 2015 by fellini

[jen1447]

^ Fair enough, I respect that.

[AlwaysGrowing]

I get it. I get that knowing that your spouse is capable of such hurtful acts is devastating to ones soul/outlook on life/general overall contentment. I also get...that one can not do anything to change the past (the affair)...so the pain will always be there...the knowledge...always there. No one wants or should have to go through such trauma due to anothers choices.

 

What I don't get...is how not telling..is NOW looked upon as NOT hurting. The WS already made the choice to hurt...for their own personal gain (whatever that is to them). For some...it was the sex...others...just ego kibbles.....trying to regain/relive their single (wild,selfish) days.

 

It just isn't noble or any other positive character trait...to engage in hurtful conduct..then hide behind...I don't want to hurt others. Yes...yes you did. That is exactly what you did. As long as you get to re-write the narrative in how your poor behaviour hurt others...most..if not all...will never change their core wiring/alarm system. Ones ability to be accountable/self incriminate will never kick in. Most...and I mean almost all...involved directly in the affair never fully or even partial put boundaries in place in regard to the F?AP after non-disclosure. They diminish the continued involvement on any level as still being hurtful/disrespectful to their spouse....let alone the potential to be right back in the affair fully. We read thread after thread of how often AP break up...only to re-engage after a day or week of "breaking up" (AKA...feeding the sexual build up..trying to keep/reinforce the "passion" that they "can not control their feelings).

 

We also constantly read threads about undisclosed affairs that have "ended"... Where the WS only focus is the affair relationship...the "whys".. what ifs..etc. The focus is there because that is the relationship that is "out in the open" to the WS. It is also the same relationship that the WS has a more equal footing on who is more to blame for the failure/wrongness. Most WS internally understand that the affair is all on them...in regard to how their spouse will view it (general public as well)(hence the lies, undisclosing).

 

That is not to say that the affair relationship is easier overall...it is just easier in regard to view of self. No one wants to be the spouse who lies/cheats/gets out of child-rearing duties to go have their sexual/emotional needs met at the cost of their families self worth/esteem. So, they re-write the narrative and the focus to AVOID the hurt that they are doing to themselves, their character, integrity. They keep all those intact by denying the truth to themselves/others so they can keep a positive view of self. The cost of that to self...is more days/weeks/years of being the villain/abuser/abandoner/liar/cheater/weak person.

 

One has to actually put into place opportunities to change. When they are successful at choosing honesty/integrity/respect then..one gets to own those qualities fully. One knows the real truth...one knows if they lying/omitting/manipulating...and each and every time we reinforce that internally...we make poor coping skills/avoidance tactics easier to use...as they are what we are feeding. That is how one becomes a MASTER manipulator, liar..etc. By practice.

 

For change....character change...personal growth to be fully realized one has to integrate/weave those skills into "I".....not just say it.

 

For those that did the "dirty work" of self evaluating/change....there are no more lingering doubts/questions/feelings of why/will I reoffend/is this permanent. One does indeed become another I...an I...that they are proud of..an I...that they like. An I...that is so far removed from their former self...that often it is difficult/impossible to speak/understand from their former self viewpoint.

 

 

To re-write the narrative of an affair to "..I did what was best for my spouse and kept the affair a secret to not hurt my spouse" is a bold-faced lie to tell oneself. It is not the truth. One lied so that they could have the affair, then lied afterwards so they did not have to "deal" with consequences. That is the motivator. CYA. Looking out for número uno.

 

I fully agree..that it sucks balls...to lose ones innocence in regard to love/marriage. That one can never not know....what they now know about their spouse.

 

The successful R...always involve a transformed WS (a different spouse). It is the new person that the BS can now learn to give measured trust in.

[flowergirl14]

My take is quite different than many here. I am 2 yrs from dday. I discovered a past affair on dday. I went to the bottom. Literally felt suicidal and it took me about a year and a half to pull out of my grief. Now I have a gut feeling that my h is in another affair. I dont know what to do. I absolutely and unequivocally dread going through that pain again. I wish that I had chose to trust him again. However, something in me said dont trust. My gut instinct was trying to preserve me. I didnt listen to it. I have been shown evidence that something is off. Everyday I think, I wish I didnt know what I know. I wish his outside matched his inside. Our relationship, his r with the kids, everything SEEMS so much better. However, i think its just lies. My reality is I know who he is. He has shown me his true self. Now what to do about it? Once you know you cant go back.

[fellini]

I found everything you said interesting and agreeable until I got here:

 

To re-write the narrative of an affair to "..I did what was best for my spouse and kept the affair a secret to not hurt my spouse" is a bold-faced lie to tell oneself. It is not the truth. One lied so that they could have the affair, then lied afterwards so they did not have to "deal" with consequences. That is the motivator. CYA. Looking out for número uno.

 

1. My first response is you are completely closed to the possibility that a WS can give a reason not to disclose for the VERY SAME REASONS that some of us BS's ARE IN FACT SAYING. So it makes zero sense your 100% certainty that ANY WS who says it, is lying.

 

2. I heard an interesting comment the other day "Trust is an illusion, there exists only mutual self interest." Food for thought.

 

3. I have agreed that some WS's in fact do so just to avoid the consequences. As far as some of us BS's are concerned. We are fine with that. We also want to avoid the consequences, we are looking out for numero uno as well. Save me the trauma: for reasons of cowardice or "noble virute" I don't care.

[jbrent890]

I have always respected the fact that if the BS would not want to know, then the WS should keep the affair to themselves. Thats what I think it should come down to, what the BS wants. If the BS would want to know, then they should have the right to know. The one piece of advice I get sick and tired of seeing is keep it to yourself and recommit to your marriage. This advice is especially given to WSs that know their BS would divorce them if the affair was ever revealed. That to me is sick and I can't respect it or support that advice. Again, I could see if the BS would not want to know, but I rarely see that. Personally I want to know. Throughout my life, I always hated when people thought they knew what was best for me. Many people give the confess or the keep it to yourself and recommit advice because they think that is what's best for the BS. I'm in the camp that the only person that knows what's best for the BS is the BS. I think for now on, whe people want to give this advice to WSs, they should ask them what would their BS want to know.

[AlwaysGrowing]

Fellini, I respect your views and the manner in which you post.

 

I guess for me...the crux is this.

 

When should a WS disclose their affair? Wouldn't most say...before you move the affair relationship into an affair? Or at the moment of being actively engaged in an affair? Or afterwards? Or never?

 

I believe most agree...that during an affair..the advice is to inform your spouse. Why? Because the WS is choosing to invest in that relationship to the detriment of the BS. However, most (mostly ALL) WS, instead choose to "date" their AP during this time, and try on the new relationship..to see if it can meet all requirements. WS do not want to "cash" in their existing marriage until they are more sure. They give themselves an out. They avoid giving their BS the same courtesy they are affording themselves/AP...choice/knowledge/protect yourself.

 

If the affair does not meet all of their needs...they then go on to..."I don't want to hurt my spouse"... "It is over now, so it is in the past". Second level of avoidance.

 

For the vast majority of WS, they effectively have given themselves..."at no time or point is it right/fair/respectful to give your BS the truth".

 

It is from that unhealthy mindset...that I take my stance on disclosure. The very nature/pathology of how one becomes/stays a WS is my line in the sand...for those who truly want to get to a better place. If one continues to feed the negative loop...change is difficult. For a WS. It is giving oneself the opportunity to be the person who they believe/want to be.

 

For the BS...there is a lot of pain, trauma,....learning about self-care (most need to learn this for the first time), how to let go (realizing that we are not in control/know as much about our life/spouse/marriage as we led ourselves to believe)....that our "power"...really is limited (mostly self). It absolutely is more than a little bit unnerving/devastating to have so many of our "beliefs" or "truths" about our intimate life destroyed...for most...in mere minutes. There is little in life..that prepares oneself for this. There are no prior life experiences to draw from...even remotely. The loss of the self they knew....is its own trauma. Another "gift"...compliments of the betrayal. A BS is given a buffet of new/old issues that need to be examined.

 

For myself.....not wanting to have to go through that ^....I 100% agree....who the f$&@ would want all that trauma and no perceived reward. No one would volunteer for that **** sandwich for anothers choices. However, I...at the same time...hold an opposing belief...that the BS should be told....in spite of knowing how life-levelling it is.

 

I come from a place of empowerment. So a BS does not invest any more of themselves into someone who is not who they think they are.....and possibly never will be. So a WS has the opportunities....authentic ones...where the internal "I" is in sync with the external "I". One does not get to pick up the "I do not want to hurt my spouse" badge...whilst refusing to acknowledge they wear "I do not always tell the truth" vest. One has to own the honesty vest...before any weight is given to any badges on it.

[fellini]

This would work if everyone was consistent and coherant, but from the dozens of stories in LS, we see they are not.

 

Some BS's will say they believed they wanted to know, but then when infidelity hit them, they would have preferred not knowing over being told: if in the end the marriage is to continue.

 

Some BS's say if their WS cheats, it's a dealbreaker, but then it wasn't.

 

Not all couples discuss infidelity and what to do about it before it happens. In fact probably nearly NONE do.

 

To bring it up after the fact hardly seems possible.

 

And it is one thing to say, "I would have rather you not told me" than to say to your spouse, "look, if you are going to fool around, just keep it to yourself". This is not the same thing we are talking about.

 

Most people need to know before an affair which is the situation, and they simply cannot, and later, many people change their hard or soft position when it's them discovering infidelity, and not, say, a friend.

 

So a friend of your's says, "hey man, I think my wife stepped out on me" and you say, "Sh-t man, it happens, what are you thinking? It's hard not imagining you two together, I hope you work it out."

 

Same guy finds out his wife kissed another man and she is on the curb.

 

 

I have always respected the fact that if the BS would not want to know, then the WS should keep the affair to themselves. Thats what I think it should come down to, what the BS wants. If the BS would want to know, then they should have the right to know. The one piece of advice I get sick and tired of seeing is keep it to yourself and recommit to your marriage. This advice is especially given to WSs that know their BS would divorce them if the affair was ever revealed. That to me is sick and I can't respect it or support that advice. Again, I could see if the BS would not want to know, but I rarely see that. Personally I want to know. Throughout my life, I always hated when people thought they knew what was best for me. Many people give the confess or the keep it to yourself and recommit advice because they think that is what's best for the BS. I'm in the camp that the only person that knows what's best for the BS is the BS. I think for now on, whe people want to give this advice to WSs, they should ask them what would their BS want to know.

[drifter777]

I found everything you said interesting and agreeable until I got here:

 

 

1. My first response is you are completely closed to the possibility that a WS can give a reason not to disclose for the VERY SAME REASONS that some of us BS's ARE IN FACT SAYING. So it makes zero sense your 100% certainty that ANY WS who says it, is lying.

 

2. I heard an interesting comment the other day "Trust is an illusion, there exists only mutual self interest." Food for thought.

 

3. I have agreed that some WS's in fact do so just to avoid the consequences. As far as some of us BS's are concerned. We are fine with that. We also want to avoid the consequences, we are looking out for numero uno as well. Save me the trauma: for reasons of cowardice or "noble virute" I don't care.

Yes, I believe if there is a good chance that your BS will never discover your cheating then telling them is cruel - no matter the reason.

 

This question is really a different way of asking "if a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it - does it make a sound?" If I cheat on my wife and tell her I know it's going to cause tremendous pain & trauma for her. If I don't tell her she's going to escape all of that. As I've said many times, if there was any way I could un-know about her cheating then I would be a happier man. So, based on my personal experience, I say only tell BS if you absolutely have to.

[Tread Carefully]

I wanted to know everything after our d-day. He only gave me the least amount of info as possible. My imagination has a life of it's own and it tortured me relentlessly. He still refused to enlighten me. That's one of the many reasons he is now my exH. Divorcing was one of the best decisions of my life. I am no longer tortured because now I have reached indifference and couldn't care less about him.

 

OP, I'm sorry for the pain you are in but don't let him win. I promise it really does get better. Take care of yourself, treat yourself lovingly. YOU are the one that is going to come out on top. You are going to get better day by day, you will get through this and it's going to make you stronger. You will find happiness again and smiles will come back to your beautiful face. We are here for you. You can do this. You know how I know that? Because we believe in you.

 

One day at a time sweetheart.

[drifter777]

I wanted to know everything after our d-day. He only gave me the least amount of info as possible. My imagination has a life of it's own and it tortured me relentlessly. He still refused to enlighten me. That's one of the many reasons he is now my exH. Divorcing was one of the best decisions of my life. I am no longer tortured because now I have reached indifference and couldn't care less about him.

Anyone who holds the opinion that marriage is sacred regardless of the behavior of the people involved in it are ignoring reality. If my wife cheats than marriage certainly was not sacred to her - why should I continue to treat it that way? Marriage should not be saved "at any cost" - there are dealbreakers.

 

From another post here at LS:

 

The fastest way to heal is to leave! :-)

[central]

When should a WS disclose their affair? Wouldn't most say...before you move the affair relationship into an affair? Or at the moment of being actively engaged in an affair? Or afterwards? Or never?

 

I believe most agree...that during an affair..the advice is to inform your spouse. Why? Because the WS is choosing to invest in that relationship to the detriment of the BS. However, most (mostly ALL) WS, instead choose to "date" their AP during this time, and try on the new relationship..to see if it can meet all requirements. WS do not want to "cash" in their existing marriage until they are more sure. They give themselves an out. They avoid giving their BS the same courtesy they are affording themselves/AP...choice/knowledge/protect yourself.

 

Playing devil's advocate, why should the WS GIVE their BS that courtesy? The BS can afford themself that right too, and has the option of having an affair themself IF they wish or aren't happy with the relationship as is. It's condescending and arrogant to think they can't make their own choices, or haven't already.

[Popsicle]

I have a question. Do you think you are better off knowing about the A or what you didn't know didn't hurt you. I wonder if my husband just slithered out of the A, like the snake he is, what would life be like now. I wouldn't have known all the deceitful things he did to me. I wouldn't have all this pain ect... Life would be normal.

 

It sure would be for you.

[AlwaysGrowing]

Playing devil's advocate, why should the WS GIVE their BS that courtesy? The BS can afford themself that right too, and has the option of having an affair themself IF they wish or aren't happy with the relationship as is. It's condescending and arrogant to think they can't make their own choices, or haven't already.

 

 

For most outside of an open relationship type arrangement, there is an expectation of honesty...when one opens up all aspects of their life to another. An affair is a forced consent...emotionally, financially, sexual morals, sexual health upon the other. It is a violation of the BS as a person.

 

It is the epitome of a condescending and arrogant attitude....to flippantly state..."well...you had the option to cheat too". Not to mention...that for many...an affair is not an option in their arsenal of life choices. It goes against their integrity, self respect and view of self.

 

One can not make informed decisions without being informed of all the facts. One wouldn't know that they are unhappy with the current (addition of a third) relationship...if they are unaware.

 

 

How many spouses would stop working that extra overtime or second job, if they knew their spouse was at home spending it on the affair? Heck, how many would want to sever financial ties immediately knowing that they are only padding the half their WS is going to get in a divorce? What another kick to the groin...that a WS gets half from the point of separation not from the day that the WS stepped out.

 

I understand...that there are way too many people nowadays that have an entitlement attitude towards life, that do not follow "do unto others as you would have done towards you", that absolve themselves from their own poor behaviours by pointing out anothers, or lack simple empathy for others. I just wouldn't advise it...for long term life management.

[fellini]

This thread, as in the previous attempts to deal with the actual question also devolves into a debate not about the OP.

 

The question was as a BS do you prefer not to know. And more than half the respondents don't even bother to address that issue, but yet again turn it around into a discussion entirely about why WS'S don't tell. Should tell. Must tell. Refuse to tell.

 

The reasons for the BS and WS probably never cross paths.

[Zenstudent]

Ok, I'll translate my answers then.

 

WS should tell because the BS deserves to know

= I wanna know, because I deserve to know, epsecially after a 26 years LTR with my wife.

 

WS has no right to withhold the information and make decisions on behalf of their BS

= I wanna know, because I feel belittled and incapacitated when other people make decisions about my life - life altering decisions included.

 

WS should tell due to the risk of SDI

= I would like to get tested and and receive treatment in case I received this gift from my wife - therefore I would like to know.

 

Hope these translations adress the OP in a proper and understandable manner.

[drifter777]

I think fellini's point is that OP is asking BS' s if they would have preferred not to know about their WS cheating. She's not asking whether its right or wrong nor is she asking people to respond based on philosophy. Unless you are a BS you have no idea how you would respond if you found your SO was cheating. To those posters the question is academic and their response is pure speculation. So - let's stay on topic.