sandylee1 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 But by leaving the door open (with her relationship with his sister) it could rekindle at any time (she did tell me they had great sex). .. I'm sorry but she doesn't respect you at all. Telling you the sex was great....ouch. What stops her going back for more great sex? Have you both tried MC? I don't actually blame you with the open marriage comment. If she can't sacrifice the friendship , then make it clear you're not all in. She can drop APs friend or have an open marriage. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Cheezy Posted June 18, 2015 Author Share Posted June 18, 2015 how old are your kids? Did your wife give you the timeline of her 3 year affair? Did she get pregnant or any stds? Have you been to counseling? This is a mess for your kids. Kids are G13 & B10. She did give me a timeline and all specifics that I asked for. She claims that it was "on and off". She did not get pregnant, and we both got tested immediately after DDay. We go to counseling twice a month, but we're not really talking about the affair - it's mostly about "how to communicate in a marriage..." Link to post Share on other sites
Author Cheezy Posted June 18, 2015 Author Share Posted June 18, 2015 To clarify, did you admit to them individually after they happened? Or as a whole prior to her A? I admitted to the dating one long ago, and the other four right before she changed her phone number. She claims that hearing me admit to MY infidelities caused a shift in her, and made her want to stay with me. And because I delayed, she felt that I was holding a power position. Once I admitted all, she apparently felt that were were equally at fault for our dysfunction, so the slate was wiped clean. Link to post Share on other sites
No Limit Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Are you aware that you are the 2nd choice for her? What if her next AP turns out to be relationship material? But besides that - let her pick between 'friendship' and marriage. Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Although clearly cheating, yours were one off's with no emotional connection, intercourse, or any chance that you would leave your wife for any of them. Your wife's cheating, was long term, involved emotional connection, intercourse, or your wife left your because she wanted to try our a full time relationship with her affair partner. They are both bad, but her's presents more of a risk to your marriage. Also, whereas you have remorse and are willing to give up what you need to give up to earn her trust again, she is not willing to do the same. So cheating has degrees of wrong....multiple non-emotional people is better than one emotional person....interesting. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 how old are your kids? Did your wife give you the timeline of her 3 year affair? Did she get pregnant or any stds? Have you been to counseling? This is a mess for your kids. Also, did you give her a timeline of YOUR affairs? Were YOU tested for STD's? Link to post Share on other sites
jen1447 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 So my take is: I am not going to try to control you. I am not going to tell you who you can be friends with. But if you hang out with your AP/s sister, I cannot be "all in" with you. I cannot trust you. So, is it all or nothing? black and white? perfect marriage or divorce? I don't think so. There can be a lot in between. I have suggested that if she wants to keep that relationship, then maybe the best thing to do is have an open marriage. What's good for the goose. We can fulfill each other's need financially, domestically and as parents, and look to others for emotional support and sex. She's not to hot on that idea... Most likely she's not hot on it for your side, not hers. Honestly tho that sounds like a sensible conclusion above. You recognize that you're not in control, define the resulting terms, and go from there (not all in). It's not the best scenario obvs but given that you've chosen to prioritize the kids, I admire your discretion and determination. (I'm a little surprised she told you how good the sex was with her AP ....that says to me that she gets off on pushing you, at least a little. Otherwise it would just be extremely mean, but she does seem to like you so I doubt it's just sticking pins in you.) 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Cheezy Posted June 18, 2015 Author Share Posted June 18, 2015 Also, did you give her a timeline of YOUR affairs? Were YOU tested for STD's? Yes, I gave a timeline as best I could. 3 were decades ago. I was tested clean. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Clay Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Are you in counceling ? There is no way she would run the relationship with her running off with the neighbor. She would either being doing a serious about of heaving lifting and working with me or we would be separate. Clay Link to post Share on other sites
Try Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 So cheating has degrees of wrong....multiple non-emotional people is better than one emotional person....interesting. My comment had nothing to do with saying one was a higher degree of bad than the other. When I said "They are both bad, but her's presents more of a risk to your marriage", I was not measuring "degrees of wrong", I was measuring degrees of risk that the cheater would leave the marriage for the affair partner. Link to post Share on other sites
Davey L Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 No compromise, ABSOLUTELY NOT, NO WAY!!! but hey it's your marriage and your wife, as long as OM stays out? Think about it... Absolutely agree with this. I tried to compromise after the affair and it led to years of difficulty with disrespect and continued attempts to push back the boundaries. I wish I had had the strength to maintain a hard-line, no compromise position and let her take-it-or-leave-it. I'd have then either had a good (or at least better) marriage, or no marriage, but not the miserable one I had for a few years. Link to post Share on other sites
Buckeye2 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 She dated him (OM) while separated, and concluded that he was not relationship material. I have suggested that if she wants t okeep that relationship, then maybe the best thing to do is have an open marriage. We can fulfill each other's need financially, domestically and as parents, and look to others for emotional support and sex. Your value to her is stability and companionship. The OMs value is hot sex. I don’t think the sex itself is her problem with you seeing other women. She’s afraid that you will do what she did. That is auditioning them to see if they could be a full time replacement for her. She knows that quite a few women are looking for relationship material and may not settle for just sex. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
understand50 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Cheezy, Your wife should let the AP's sister go. Your marriage together after the trauma of cheating by her, must come first. If she really wants it to work, then a friendship is really nothing compared to a husband, lover and the father of her children. BTW, your slip ups, just do not compare to her having a long term A, then seeing and dating him while you two were separated. It is as if you "Jay walked", so now she can commit murder. Stand up for yourself. What she did is so much worse. You do not want to divorce, but if she is not going to go all in to the marriage, show true remorse, change her behavior, then your marriage is of two room mates, and I would move to a open marriage. She was all right with it for herself, just not you. Your wife is self centered and she needs to come to terms that it is all not about her. If she can not, you need to start adjusting to the relationship that is, not what she thinks should be. I argue for Reconciliation most times, I defend WS that are truly working and showing remorse, but I do not see from what you have written that your wife is really in true reconciliation. She is just marking time until that next AP comes along. Wish you both luck Link to post Share on other sites
Author Cheezy Posted June 18, 2015 Author Share Posted June 18, 2015 Your value to her is stability and companionship. The OMs value is hot sex. I don’t think the sex itself is her problem with you seeing other women. She’s afraid that you will do what she did. That is auditioning them to see if they could be a full time replacement for her. She knows that quite a few women are looking for relationship material and may not settle for just sex. Right? No, I totally agree. Clearly she went looking for emotional support and sex, but likes me for the stability, companionship, and co-parenting (I am a good dad). An open marriage IS NOT something I want, but I'm trying to reach a compromise. She can't have her cake and eat it too. And me finding someone else is the risk she would take by continuing her affair (by proxy). The open marriage is way of saying You Can't Have It Both Ways. You're either "all in" or it's something south of that. What? I don't know. But it's the risk you take by putting your spouse in the position of wondering if you're going to rekindle your affair whenever you get mad, resentful, lonely, or horny. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
drifter777 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 If I were you I would assume that she wants to keep in touch with AP's sister so she can keep tabs on him. Period. She wants to keep him warm in case she decides she wants to start back up with him or simply wants some nookie with him. I'd tell her to go ahead and be friends with sister but she can pack her stuff and never come back if she does it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Buckeye2 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) Right? No, I totally agree. Clearly she went looking for emotional support and sex, but likes me for the stability, companionship, and co-parenting (I am a good dad). An open marriage IS NOT something I want, but I'm trying to reach a compromise. She can't have her cake and eat it too. And me finding someone else is the risk she would take by continuing her affair (by proxy). The open marriage is way of saying You Can't Have It Both Ways. You're either "all in" or it's something south of that. What? I don't know. But it's the risk you take by putting your spouse in the position of wondering if you're going to rekindle your affair whenever you get mad, resentful, lonely, or horny. Congratulations. That sounds like a very wise plan of action. She says she'll never go to her apartment - that they'll meet off site. She says she'll ask her friend not to talk about him. All she would have to do is mention to the sister that she’s “mad, resentful, lonely, or horny” and the sister would have a solution even if she didn't come out and say it. Talk about an elephant in the room. Those subjects come up all the time when you're talking to your best friend. Ask your wife if they will avoid those subjects as well as the OM. Edited June 18, 2015 by Buckeye2 Link to post Share on other sites
Cephalopod Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 OP your wife has no remorse. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Cheezy Posted June 18, 2015 Author Share Posted June 18, 2015 It was very helpful to read all of your opinions. Thank you. At this point, today, I'm not going to say anything. I've explained to her how that relationship makes me feel - hurt, sad, suspicious, etc. So now I will just let her digest it. Let her think about it for a while. Our next counseling session is in two weeks, and I'll bring it up again then. Looking back on these posts, I realize that the open marriage idea is a non-starter. It's not what I want. What I want is the "all-in" marriage, and I want it with my wife. I hope we can get to that point, but I need to have patience. This is all still pretty fresh, and I know I need to take my time, remember my part in the dysfunction, and continue to be open, honest, loving, and kind. Link to post Share on other sites
GoBlue Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 I am jumping in here late, but I am wondering why one earth the affair is not being discussed if you go to counseling twice a month? Talk about communication all you want, talk about conflict resolution all you want, but when the trust of a relationship has been broken, and you don't deal with that, nothing is going to really get resolved. There is a book titled Torn Asunder: Recovering from an Extramarital Affair by Dave Carder that I highly recommend. I also know about an article on a faith-based website called What to look for in a Marriage counselor. If you are interested send me a private note and I will forward the link to you. The offender in an affair bears the brunt of responsibility to prove that they are "all in." This friendship with the sister is not an option and if she is not willing to bend on that she is not really committed to you or the marriage. Honestly everything needs to be opened up and addressed in counseling because if you had that many "indiscretions" is there any wonder she went down the path that she chose? This entire marriage has missed "trust" for quite a long time. Without trust there really is no intimacy possible. I hope you will consider finding a counselor who will deal with the real "nuts and bolts" of this marriage. An intensive counseling program could really be a benefit. The National Institute of Marriage has one of the best in our nation. My thoughts and prayers are with you. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Kids are G13 & B10. She did give me a timeline and all specifics that I asked for. She claims that it was "on and off". She did not get pregnant, and we both got tested immediately after DDay. We go to counseling twice a month, but we're not really talking about the affair - it's mostly about "how to communicate in a marriage..." So, she hasn't owned her part in cheating on you and betraying you in the worst way? Does she justify going outside the marriage, blaming you etc because of communication problems, marriage issues? She cannot be friends with the exAP's sister, at least not now. Even if she isn't seeing him or speaking to him anymore, fact is, his sister knew of the A and your wife probably knows more about exAP, what he's up to, how he is etc, through his sister, and all that feeds her feelings and keeps them alive. How do you know the three of them aren't hanging out? Or the sister leaves them alone? She's being extremely selfish by choosing the friendship over your marriage and is putting herself first. THAT behaviour (entitlement) is what led her to cheat in the first place!! A 3 year affair that ended in March - There's a pretty good chance there's contact between them, at least by text/calls or email. doesn't mean she is 'seeing' him or fooling around with him but still... Have you checked up on her (email, texts?)? Does she give you access to her accounts? 4 Link to post Share on other sites
aliveagain Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) It's your children I'm most worried about. Mom leaves dad and starts a relationship with the neighbour(temporary step dad) than mom breaks up with neighbour and goes back to dad but stays best friends with neighbours sister(almost an aunt). Therefor it must be ok to have other partners when your still married because dad was ok with it, he and mom are together again. Her brother was ba*ging your wife for 3 1/2 years so who do you think her alliances are with? She was there when your wife was playing house with her brother. This woman is no friend of your marriage. When doctors remove a cancer they remove it all, get rid of the sister if you want what's left of your marriage to have any chance. Your whole family needs counselling, your children deserve better than this, it's time you both start to act like adults and do what is best for the family. Edited June 19, 2015 by aliveagain 2 Link to post Share on other sites
understand50 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 It's your children I'm most worried about. Mom leaves dad and starts a relationship with the neighbour(temporary step dad) than mom breaks up with neighbour and goes back to dad but stays best friends with neighbours sister(almost an aunt). Therefor it must be ok to have other partners when your still married because dad was ok with it, he and mom are together again. Her brother was ba*ging your wife for 3 1/2 years so who do you think her alliances are with? She was there when your wife was playing house with her brother. This woman is no friend of your marriage. When doctors remove a cancer they remove it all, get rid of the sister if you want what's left of your marriage to have any chance. Your whole family needs counselling, your children deserve better than this, it's time you both start to act like adults and do what is best for the family. Cheezy, aliveagain has the best run down of whats going on. You wife needs to drop the sister, if she is really committed to you and the marriage. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
central Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 If I were you I would assume that she wants to keep in touch with AP's sister so she can keep tabs on him. Period. She wants to keep him warm in case she decides she wants to start back up with him or simply wants some nookie with him. I'd tell her to go ahead and be friends with sister but she can pack her stuff and never come back if she does it. I like this. You don't have to divorce her - she will make the choice herself based on what really matters to her - you and her children, or the friend and/or AP. You only need to establish your boundaries and stick to them. And you will truly know where her priorities lie. An open marriage probably won't work well, as she'll resume the affair but with your approval. You'd have to find someone for yourself, which may not happen quickly or at all. So, you'd still be suspicious and resentful. In my experience, open relationship only work when the core relationship is very strong and stable. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Looking back on these posts, I realize that the open marriage idea is a non-starter. It's not what I want. What I want is the "all-in" marriage, and I want it with my wife. What if, based on marital history, "all-in" isn't possible? Given all that's happened, I'd guess your options are a compromised marriage or divorce... Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
sandylee1 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 OP A question for you. Your wife came back because the OM was not relationship material, not because she realised it's you she loves. What about if the man IS relationship material? You've got your wife back by default, because it didn't work out with OM, that would really bother me even more than her friendship with his sister who was part of this. I see it as he's not relationship material , but he's okay to have great sex with........ What stops it happening again? Because the links she wants to maintain show NO remorse at all. 6 Link to post Share on other sites
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