Tribble Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 She was just being funny. I doubt she actually verbalizes her frustrations. I'm sure, but there are people on this thread with kids. Many of them replying respectfully about being childless by choice.
RedRobin Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 I never took it personally when someone asked why I didn't have kids or didn't want them. Until recently, it was something most people just 'did' and I just assumed they were curious because I was different. What did bother me and hurt me, was when my friends had kids and they dropped off the map or only wanted to spend time with other women who had kids. That hurt a lot. Even then I tried not to take it personally. I figured there were only so many hours in the day, and they wanted to be around people who understood what they were going through... and have someone for their kid to play with. I got that. It didn't make it feel better though. Just an FYI... I supported their desire to have kids and a family. I really saw no reason for their relative disappearance other than the fact that I didn't have kids myself. As their kids got older, we got back in touch and reacquainted. But I still think it sucks when people alienate long time friends who don't happen to have kids. Same as when people get married and drop out of touch with their single friends. Makes you wonder if they were ever your true friend to begin with. Probably not. Since I don't have kids, my friends ARE my family. Of course, in addition to my actual family (aunts, uncles, nieces, nephews, cousins, etc), whom I'm also close with...
No Limit Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 You are too young to make that choice now. You may never want kids or you might change your mind. In the meantime there are plenty of other birth control methods you can take. If by 30 you don't want kids you'll probably never will so get them tied at that point. I was told I would change my mind and I thought I would but never did. Definitely not. I'm more into cats than kids. And even if I would change my mind, it's not like there aren't many children in need of a good home. I was 30 with no kids and I found one. She was from India, and I guess had seen her share of kids growing up in poverty, neglected... you name it. She made absolutely sure I didn't want them though... I sat through three separate appointments with her before she did the operation. She also made very sure that it could not be reversed and that there would be no chance of the tubes growing back together. Not only did she clip them, but she removed a chunk and cauterized both sides. Long story short... don't go to your standard American doctor. They are all full of crap about how women are going to change their mind, blah blah. Notice that men don't have to go through this garbage if they want the procedure. *Average German doctor in my case. I'll start looking once I become 25.
Author Brigit Posted June 17, 2015 Author Posted June 17, 2015 I never took it personally when someone asked why I didn't have kids or didn't want them. Until recently, it was something most people just 'did' and I just assumed they were curious because I was different. What did bother me and hurt me, was when my friends had kids and they dropped off the map or only wanted to spend time with other women who had kids. That hurt a lot. Even then I tried not to take it personally. I figured there were only so many hours in the day, and they wanted to be around people who understood what they were going through... and have someone for their kid to play with. I got that. It didn't make it feel better though. Just an FYI... I supported their desire to have kids and a family. I really saw no reason for their relative disappearance other than the fact that I didn't have kids myself. As their kids got older, we got back in touch and reacquainted. But I still think it sucks when people alienate long time friends who don't happen to have kids. Same as when people get married and drop out of touch with their single friends. Makes you wonder if they were ever your true friend to begin with. Probably not. Since I don't have kids, my friends ARE my family. Of course, in addition to my actual family (aunts, uncles, nieces, nephews, cousins, etc), whom I'm also close with... I understand. When women have kids they seem to only want to hang out with other moms. I think it's mostly because there is a lot of reciprocity in the kid tasks (car-pooling, babysitting, etc.) A mom isn't going to be able to bargain as much with a friend who doesn't have children.
truncated Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 Yes, sometimes I feel like I have to "pretend" too... Actually, last nite I was talking with my brother and he was telling me "not to lose faith" and thank God we were texting, cuz I know he didn't mean anything hurtful, but I felt like asking him "What do you mean by 'lose faith'?" Was he implying that my life is to be doomed if I never, ever, have kids? We were chatting about his upcoming kid and I was telling him how happy I was to just be there for them - as my "factory is shut down"...and, that's when he was like "well, there's sperm donor clinics" when I told him I need a husband first...and la-di-da. Yes, children are a beautiful thing, but some of us aren't made out for it. Can you have a rich life w/o children and/or a husband. Yes, but it will just be "different". My last FWB used to do big brothers cuz he had no kids - mind you, he was in his 40's. He - like me - worked, was very active (he did mountain climbing, martial arts/MMA) and volunteered. The only thing sucking in his life was no affection from the wifey. And, IMO, while people who have kids want to sit on their high-horse and act like they have a "life" that revolves around their kids - IMO, they aren't doing anything extraordinary that can't be done my anyone else. And, it's too easy to let your life/identity default into raising kids. And, quite frankly, what a lot of parents call "raising" kids now a days (dumping them off in day care/public schools) makes me wanna roll my eyes on how they still want the world to worship them cuz they have the "title" of parent and literally do not even "raise" their kids. So, us people w/o kids - who consciously decided not to have them - IMO, have more courage and put more effort into having a fulfilling life instead of just defaulting into kids and trying to shove it up other people's noses. Like a few years ago, I remember one occasion where we were at a party at my brother's home. His wife picked up a friend's kid and she was just cooooooing at the baby and was so happy. I just didn't feel it. But, when I go to like PetSmart, doggy parks and stuff, I'll get down on my knees and play and ask questions to a complete stranger about their dog before I'd do the same about a child. Yea, I know where probably my feelings about kids came from - as I grew up in a dysfunctional home and from a young age saw children as a source of misery and being trapped financially and emotionally in a bad situation. At one point, before I got out of the Army and I was a raging Femenazi, my plan was to have a child w/o a man cuz "I could raise that kid better alone, and was gonna do a better job than my parents and men were useless/disposable" and I had the income do do it too...I was ready to drop that thing off to daycare and what not. Thank God All-Mighty that I snapped out of that and when I see Sheryl Crowe, Halle Berry, and people in real life have kids intentionally w/o a husband and father - I wanna slap them cuz now I've matured and realized how kids need an intact home (a "nest") and the stability of a mother and father for proper psychological development. And, how important it is for a mother to "be" there for her kids instead of dropping them off at daycare/public schools. Shoot, this woman called my fav podcaster and my fav podcaster hung up on her cuz the woman said that the kid was in daycare (barely a few months alive) and that she still IS a "mother" cuz of the few hrs she spend with the kid after she gets off of work and picks up the kid from daycare; that dual incomes were needed; and, that her job is important cuz she gets health benefits and makes more than her husband. So, I resolved that if I'm not gonna do it right (be at home for my kid, have a husband and "nest"), I'm not gonna do it at all. And, no, no family is perfect - but I'm tired of seeing people rush into kids/marriage and don't have a dime to their name, shove the kids off on daycare - in other words, they KNEW they weren't ready to have a kid and are just gonna plow through and let the chips fall where they may. Someone commented in a tread that some of us may feel "guilty" that we don't have a family and I wonder if they know what "guilty" means? Guilty means you did something wrong. Your decision to not have kids and add to the world of kids is "how" wrong. IMO, you are sparing that child and the world from misery and doing them a favor by properly planning when/how to have a kid instead of just having kids for the sake of it. BTW, I feel no "guilt" cuz my brother and sisters already gave my parents very beautiful and intelligent grandchildren - so I'm off the hook **whew** So, I'm going on 40 and who knows, if I meet "Mr. Right" and we have at least 3 years of marriage, I "might" consider having a kid or two, but probably will adopt. Eh, but I don't see that happening - cuz like I told my brother - I gotta have a husband first and no prospects for that right now You misquote me. I didn't say YOU feel guilty for not having kids, I said many parents of special needs kids do because they are not able to be everything for everyone in the family. Trust me, you feel guilty enough for your child's issues, and then to have someone look down on you because you aren't spending the time they think you should on your spouse because you don't rub their feet as soon as they get trough the door and then sit with them over a glass of wine, so if they cheat it's your fault.
autumnnight Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 You misquote me. I didn't say YOU feel guilty for not having kids, I said many parents of special needs kids do because they are not able to be everything for everyone in the family. Trust me, you feel guilty enough for your child's issues, and then to have someone look down on you because you aren't spending the time they think you should on your spouse because you don't rub their feet as soon as they get trough the door and then sit with them over a glass of wine, so if they cheat it's your fault. My opinion: if someone has enough time on their hands to pick apart the parenting of others....they have too much time on their hands. And if they do not have any kids, then they really need to shut up. 2
truncated Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 If someone knows themselves well enough to know that they don't want to have kids, then I don't see that as being any of my business. 6
GorillaTheater Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 If someone knows themselves well enough to know that they don't want to have kids, then I don't see that as being any of my business. To the extent being childless is an "outlier", I'm an outlier in the other direction. It's none of my business, nor the business of anyone, whether somebody else has kids or not. Well, to a point, anyways. I can think of a few people who never should have had kids, that's for sure. 7
sweetjasmine Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 You are too young to make that choice now. You may never want kids or you might change your mind. In the meantime there are plenty of other birth control methods you can take. If by 30 you don't want kids you'll probably never will so get them tied at that point. I was told I would change my mind and I thought I would but never did. Yeah, I felt the same way that she did when I was 18-19, but just a few years later, I changed and now want to have kids. Although there's some truth to the claim that OB/GYNs often don't really take women at their word, whether it be for sterilization or other problems like endometriosis ("It's natural. Deal with it!"), the biggest reason why most will discourage tubal ligation in young women is that it's major surgery with all the risks that come with general anesthesia, opening up the abdomen, and cutting into tissue. The younger the woman, the more likely it is to fail, and it's usually best to exhaust other options before moving on to surgery, regardless of the condition. The harm caused in waiting a few years is less than the potential harm of operating early. I think that should ultimately be the patient's decision to make but I understand why doctors would hesitate. 1
RedRobin Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 Yeah, I felt the same way that she did when I was 18-19, but just a few years later, I changed and now want to have kids. Although there's some truth to the claim that OB/GYNs often don't really take women at their word, whether it be for sterilization or other problems like endometriosis ("It's natural. Deal with it!"), the biggest reason why most will discourage tubal ligation in young women is that it's major surgery with all the risks that come with general anesthesia, opening up the abdomen, and cutting into tissue. The younger the woman, the more likely it is to fail, and it's usually best to exhaust other options before moving on to surgery, regardless of the condition. The harm caused in waiting a few years is less than the potential harm of operating early. I think that should ultimately be the patient's decision to make but I understand why doctors would hesitate. True. It is major surgery. If my doctor had approached it that way, rather than assuming I'd change my mind, it wouldn't feel so condescending. However, for those truly wishing to avoid years of hormones, or using much riskier options like condoms or the rhythm method, it is her only choice. I don't know why subjecting women to years or decades of artificial hormones is more acceptable... Except that it keeps them coming back to docs every year to get their prescriptions refilled and for check ups. And of course, the religious right counting on oopsies to lasso more women into motherhood. Cause that's their only purpose in life doncha know... Having my tubes tied was incredibly liberating... But yes, the surgery was not fun. For a man, it takes about a half hour and is done under local... So maybe that is why there are fewer objections.
autumnnight Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 And of course, the religious right counting on oopsies to lasso more women into motherhood. This is one of the most idiotic things I have read. Other than that I agree with your post in full. I had my tubes tied, and there were complications. However, that was my only choice because hub was not open at all to a vasectomy.
GorillaTheater Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 For a man, it takes about a half hour and is done under local... So maybe that is why there are fewer objections. In my experience, the doc still wants to be comfortable that you're not going to change your mind. My impression is that most docs would at least be concerned about performing a vasectomy on some guy in his 20s. In my case, the doc was right to ask me some questions, because what the hell did I do five years later? Yes, that's right, get a reversal. And THAT, my friends, hurt like a white-hot bastard. 1
Radu Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 Another reason why it's more acceptable for men to have it is because we are also seen as not the bringers of life. That and we are more disposable to society than women are. The implications above are not fun. Also ... i make it a point to ask a woman i'm in a relationship with wether or not she wants kids and if she gets accidentally pregnant what she will do. Amazingly enough, some in the past said 'abort', but it was not a resounding yes. Anything short of a resounding yes from a woman you know for a looooong ass time, as a guy you must assume that she will keep the baby and that choice is out of your hand [together with child support and possibly alimony]. So yes, they do change their minds.
beatcuff Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 wow. this has obviously struck a nerve. there are so many that i want to quote and respond... instead, you get this mess: i appears those that have not, have given it some extensive thought. its your life and i have no interest in changing it. yes you have way more free-time (at one point i had 4 playing youth ice hockey, many weekends were filled running from one rink to another). you have way more available money. while many say they like children your kidding yourself. it appears you look at them as small adults: great to converse with, play games, shop... that is NOT children: they are the whole package. its further cemented with the comments: well if they were teens... are you serious??? sure they are great for periods of time but oh my head the stress is off the charts: where are they? what are they thinking? grades? career? will they ever leave? they are dating WHAT! (parents skip over the who very quickly) he/she just walked by the trash AGAIN! they are driving? the absolute worst --- the late night call. what's wrong with a simple "i did not want them". i have a friend that did not, we talked about it once, never again. why should the 10th or 100th person be met with such disdain. BTW i have no issue dumping on a person after they asked a third time (but never your parents). i have 4 (same mom). AND I GET ASKED WHY FOUR. my responses include: "its her fault, i sneezed and she got pregnant" "we just learned no is a word" "we just learned what causes it" "it's easier to write one off" "we stand a better chance to guilt one into caring for us when we are old" "i wanted a hockey team --- she bailed on me" "she didn't want to diet that year" BTW even with all the stress, all the disappointment, all the sleepless nights i would not change it for all the toys in the world AND would not want someone who didn't to be forced to do it. 3
Torii Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 I'm a bit undecided on children, but believe I'm leaning towards none whatsoever. Always wanted a good life for myself, a life with free time and travel. Never really had a biological clock, and even though I'm only in my young 20s, I don't have the slightest doubt this will change. I've watched my close friends dedicate their life to their children and although parenthood is beautiful, I don't think it's the right path for me at all. I don't want to care for a child every day, during every single hour - just not meant to do that, and I'm happy with this. 1
Author Brigit Posted June 17, 2015 Author Posted June 17, 2015 To the extent being childless is an "outlier", I'm an outlier in the other direction. It's none of my business, nor the business of anyone, whether somebody else has kids or not. Well, to a point, anyways. I can think of a few people who never should have had kids, that's for sure. I think too many people have kids without considering if they even want them or can afford them. Bringing another human being into the world is such a huge responsibility. The biggest one you can ever make. 4
Author Brigit Posted June 17, 2015 Author Posted June 17, 2015 In my experience, the doc still wants to be comfortable that you're not going to change your mind. My impression is that most docs would at least be concerned about performing a vasectomy on some guy in his 20s. In my case, the doc was right to ask me some questions, because what the hell did I do five years later? Yes, that's right, get a reversal. And THAT, my friends, hurt like a white-hot bastard. LOL! I think that's why they want women to wait to get this operation. Plus, if women are sleeping with different men then they'll want to use a condom anyway. 1
Eternal Sunshine Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 Everyone seems very interested in the fact that I don't want children. I have never had the meternal instinct and to me it's really tough to comprehend that people give up so much of their lives to have children. Women I work with usually take years off work while children are small. Even when they get to school age, there is still getting them to school. Picking them up from school. After school care. I feel tired just thinking about it. I don't want to offend people having kids so of course I don't say it. There is this super gossipy woman at work that spread the rumor around that I am really infertile and that's the real reason I don't "want" kids. WTF. It's like people just can't accept it at face value, that some of us have no desire for kids even though we are biologically capable of having them. For some weird reason though, I get a huge protective and loving instinct towards animals. Cats, dogs, rabbits, birds... I just want to take them home, take care of them and keep them safe 2
Author Brigit Posted June 18, 2015 Author Posted June 18, 2015 Everyone seems very interested in the fact that I don't want children. I have never had the meternal instinct and to me it's really tough to comprehend that people give up so much of their lives to have children. Women I work with usually take years off work while children are small. Even when they get to school age, there is still getting them to school. Picking them up from school. After school care. I feel tired just thinking about it. I don't want to offend people having kids so of course I don't say it. There is this super gossipy woman at work that spread the rumor around that I am really infertile and that's the real reason I don't "want" kids. WTF. It's like people just can't accept it at face value, that some of us have no desire for kids even though we are biologically capable of having them. For some weird reason though, I get a huge protective and loving instinct towards animals. Cats, dogs, rabbits, birds... I just want to take them home, take care of them and keep them safe For a long time I thought there was something so wrong with me that I didn't want children. But I've come to terms with that is who I am and how I need to live my life. I'm also very maternal towards animals. My dog is with me right now making cute sleeping sounds.
loveflower Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 for me, I think the biggest fear is how do we know we are going to have healthy, normal and intelligent kids? my period had been very irregular (now is much better), so I wonder if that will affect my ability to have healthy kid?
Renton Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 Never wanted kids, had to let go of a few women over the years as they wanted children. Last one was 34, i'm 40 and her clock was "ticking." Not fair on her so we went our separate ways. Haven't met a woman who didn't want to have kids. 1
Author Brigit Posted June 18, 2015 Author Posted June 18, 2015 Never wanted kids, had to let go of a few women over the years as they wanted children. Last one was 34, i'm 40 and her clock was "ticking." Not fair on her so we went our separate ways. Haven't met a woman who didn't want to have kids. Most women do want kids. I've never understood the desire. I find kids irritating.
Torii Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 I feel very happy, knowing that there are other people that don't have maternal instinct like me. It's like I'm finally accepted for being how I am, and I really enjoy it. 1
Renton Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 Most women do want kids. I've never understood the desire. I find kids irritating. Well, seeing i have been told i am great with kids, people still cannot understand why i have never had any. That used to irritate me, not any more. Looking after someone else's kids for a few days is all well and good, having them in your life until the day you die is something else entirely. All you have to say these days is "it's my choice" and most people just say fair enough and leave it be. 1
WasOtherWoman Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) Childless by choice here, never waivered and never regretted it (although I do love my "steps" and my grandchildren. When I first started seeing my now husband he said to me (he had two grown kids at the time) "I know that you don't have kids, and mine are grown, but I want you to know that I would be open to having a child with you if that was what you wanted." I was like ?????? LOL, I said "no thank you" very politely and we never discussed it again. P.S. My wedding present was his vasectomy Edited June 18, 2015 by WasOtherWoman edited to add the P.S. 1
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