The God or Not God Discussion

[joystickd]

Oh Lord have mercy JS, not everything white is about white supremacy... that would be like saying every black is about black supremacy- it just isn't the truth.

 

All of the 'likenesses' of Jesus I've ever been exposed to look Jewish to me.

 

Catholicism has some stuff that's off (as does every denomination), but salvation is right on the money and IMO that's the main deal.

 

It has a lot of things that's off. Why celebrate days for saints? Why eve have statues or pics of Saints? Isn't that graven images? Saints are the reason Santeria still exists today in America. Slaves couldn't practice it their way for fear of punishment from slave masters so Orishas became Saints. I'm just not into the whole current or past view of Christianity. Picking a choosing parts to fit an agenda or look down on people on some level is supremacy. I know for some people it's hard on their view of the world.

[pureinheart]

Ah Pureinheart, anger isn't a sin; it just can be easy to sin when angry (Ephesians 4:26). Anyways, you haven't been mean like call me names or anything. I just was surprised at how you thought I was a Communist, that's all.

 

It's been hard to reconcile certain things, thus frustration and anger, but I take it to His throne daily:)

 

Jesus said though that things would get worse. While Jesus Christ wasn't an American, he lived in the regenerated Israel before the Romans destroyed the Temple (which Jesus prophesied would be destroyed). This is very sobering what he said, and it's true:

 

"You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of birth pains.“Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come." - Matthew 24:6-14 (NIV)https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=mat+24&version=NIV

 

Amen! We know that it's always been about Israel, yes there are other countries, although Israel is the apple of God's eye. America was a great friend to Israel, but it doesn't look like it now.

 

The attention will shift back to Europe, and I know this, although there is a concern about the US and where we stand after the Rapture (I'm a pre-tribber). We are not mentioned after chapter 4 (?) in The Book of Revelations. It is my hope (and other people I know) that the US will be a refuge for those escaping the horrors of the Trib and major control in Europe during the Trib.

 

 

The watered down Christianity fits into Jesus' prophecy though.

 

 

I know:(. It's called Progressive Christianity. Christianity is not supposed to conform to this world, but Progressive does and it tickles the ears. We've got Chrislam now ... I bring that up because I remember that amazing thread that you posted in and went into major detail, the differences between Islam and Christianity... wow, there is no way most could even tackle that!

 

Ever since Adam and Eve disobeyed God in the Garden of Eden, life on earth has been broken.

 

I know:(

 

 

What is a WIP?

 

Work In Progress... lol

 

Ok. Blessings and hugs

 

Love you!!! (Love isn't a game.)

 

Hey back atcha

[pureinheart]

It has a lot of things that's off. Why celebrate days for saints? Why eve have statues or pics of Saints? Isn't that graven images?

 

It's called idolatry. You forgot praying to statues:p.

 

 

Saints are the reason Santeria still exists today in America. Slaves couldn't practice it their way for fear of punishment from slave masters so Orishas became Saints.

 

I'll have to loo that up.

 

 

I'm just not into the whole current or past view of Christianity. Picking a choosing parts to fit an agenda or look down on people on some level is supremacy. I know for some people it's hard on their view of the world.

 

You know JS, I think 'supremacy' is a bit harsh, I would call it arrogance. Ya, I hear you, that's why I'm careful about what I say about Catholism- you spoke straight up, so I have to tell the truth...

[pureinheart]

I can tell you this....

 

God gave pretty clear instructions as to what we were to be doing. And I see a whole lot of Christians who are too busy waving signs, blasting the leaders they are supposed to honor (Romans 13), and showing anything BUT Christlike love rather than fulfilling the Great Commission - which is the ONLY real way to change the world. Jesus used 12 men, trained 12 men, taught 12 men, and sent them to do the work. Washington was NEVER His backup plan.

 

Let's stop fiddling and get busy doing what HE said instead of what makes us feel vindicated.

 

None of us are perfect, the Lord told us to do a lot of things that I don't see happening, but that's between God and whoever.

 

Are you talking about O here? IDK... Jesus had some pretty strong language for the Pharisees, who were one level of the political leaders of His day...

[joystickd]

It's called idolatry. You forgot praying to statues:p.

 

 

 

 

I'll have to loo that up.

 

 

 

 

You know JS, I think 'supremacy' is a bit harsh, I would call it arrogance. Ya, I hear you, that's why I'm careful about what I say about Catholism- you spoke straight up, so I have to tell the truth...

That is just the way I see it. It's why you you see Blacks basically turn away from Christianity.

[pulsar]

While the OP does present an open question, the underlying assumption of this thread seems to be Judeo-Christian God, or at least perception of God or a God per the above stated religious doctrine.

Now it is understandable that one's perception of God is based on one's belief. However, it is difficult to come to consensus on God since numerous religions have different views of what God is. Thus, the problem becomes: 'how I believe God is the correct way.'

 

That being said, I believe in God that is ever-prevading from which all emanates, something that is part of the universe. However, this view dictates both a personal and impersonal deity who creates the cosmos and all that which exists within and without.

 

Last point, with this particular view of God, one can still draw closer through discernment, compassion, love, and meditation.

 

Cheers

[autumnnight]

It has a lot of things that's off. Why celebrate days for saints? Why eve have statues or pics of Saints? Isn't that graven images? Saints are the reason Santeria still exists today in America. Slaves couldn't practice it their way for fear of punishment from slave masters so Orishas became Saints. I'm just not into the whole current or past view of Christianity. Picking a choosing parts to fit an agenda or look down on people on some level is supremacy. I know for some people it's hard on their view of the world.

 

Since I am not Catholic, none of this applies to me. And for the record, I agree. Praying to Saints and Mary...elevating them to equal status with God, etc....NONE of that is Biblical.

[autumnnight]

None of us are perfect, the Lord told us to do a lot of things that I don't see happening, but that's between God and whoever.

 

Are you talking about O here? IDK... Jesus had some pretty strong language for the Pharisees, who were one level of the political leaders of His day...

 

No, Rome was the political force. The Pharisees were the CHURCH leaders.

 

And The Great Commission is not between "me and God." It was the prime directive given to all Christians.

 

We choose to do the other stuff instead because it makes us feel good and righteous and validates our indignation.

[Weezy1973]

Sure, but it doesn’t mean it’s not true either. So, it just gets back to this how can you know anything at all? How do I know you exist, just because there is a user named Weezy posting, for all I know, I may have multiple personality disorder, create a dual account just to argue with myself. I can’t prove that is not occurring. But I think the odds are pretty low as to be essentially bankrupt.

 

Definitely agree with this! Funny how a non-believer and a Christian can be on the same page on so many things...

 

At some point, we all draw a conclusion based on enough evidence to satisfy our own selves (I think therefore I am...I've tried to avoid philosophy up until now lol).

 

Descartes, indeed. But this is where our views part. I don't think enough evidence to satisfy our own selves is getting us any closer to the actual truth. The truth exists regardless of what we believe. If your standard applies, than Islam is equally as true as Scientology because the people that believe it have enough evidence to satisfy themselves. But clearly, they can't both be true.

 

I think there is enough theological evidence for me to confidently draw the conclusion, Jesus is Yahweh. Of course that is assuming a lot, but I am definitely not out of the mainstream here. Most of Christian history backs up what I am saying, so I’m not totally making this up. I can at least have high certainty of that. haha

 

Yes, true enough. I think the problem is trying to encapsulate the problem as purely theological. Truth has nothing to do with belief, religion, or philosophy. It is real. It has to do with reality. Like I said previously, science is in the business of discovering what is true about the universe. Religions, including Christianity, should embrace that.

 

 

 

The first question, may be better answered by philosophy or science. The second question, I think is mainly theological. Philosophy or science could probably at best get you to a deistic worldview. Theologically, if Jesus was God, and the gospels are true, than I think the answer to your second question is yes.

 

But, again, these aren't questions of theology. These are questions of truth, which to date have been best answered by science.

 

 

I agree. This is where the issues of historical reliability come into play. How do we know anything about the past is true? Historians have criteria that can get us close to the truth. But it can only operate in the realm of likelihood or relative certainty. History from antiquity is not repeatable, in that sense. However, concerning the gospels, we have more manuscripts for the New Testament than any other work of history from antiquity such as Pliny, Plato, etc.

 

Again, I agree with this. We can't really know for sure - and we have to admit fully that what we are getting at any point is the historians interpretation of history, and not the truth about what happened. My major problems are with the supernatural claims in the bible. The rest of it I'm much more liable to believe, just because they actually abide by the laws of physics and whatnot in our universe.

 

Definitely! Well, I used to be one of those non-believers, so I do know where you are coming from.

 

I know you do. You answer my questions in a way I can really understand them, which I'm forever grateful for. Thanks!

 

Very interesting! Thanks for sharing your valuable insights. I do agree, although I do not think scientific enlightenment, at least among the general population, is the only reason. America is not very strong in terms of science education.

 

And America is really the only Western country with a significant number of fundamentalist Christians. I don't think it's a coincidence that a scientifically illiterate country has a relatively larger percentage of creationists. And as I intimated previously, this is actually holding Christianity back.

 

 

They have also moved towards moral relativism and in a sense, undermined their own selves.

 

I'm not a proponent of moral relativism myself. But I think the answers about our morality lie in our biology. Again, I think it's a question of science.

 

If I recall, did not most of that demographic, still identify as spiritual and believing in God, just not identifying with a religion?

 

I believe you're correct here. I think getting real data on religion is difficult at the best of times. People might claim to be a certain religion but not live their lives that way. If someone was raised by Christians, and identifies as Christian, but never goes to church and has never read the bible, are they still Christian?

 

However, in other countries like China, Christianity is growing rapidly.

 

Again, this is true. In communist countries where religion was outlawed, people are flocking to religion again now that they have the freedom to do so. Christianity is one of those religions.

 

Very cool! Well, hey, you are on the right track. Jesus told the crowds he preached to that if they won't believe in Him, to at least believe in the works that he did.

 

I've really been thinking about this, and my interpretation is a bit different. Again, my main objections are to the supernatural claims. And I know most Christians will disagree with this, but hear me out:

 

What we refer to as the afterlife is in fact what is after our life. So essentially Jesus was preaching to leave the world a better place for those that come after we die. And what's really amazing is that those nations that are predominantly Christian have done just that! We have tackled poverty and illness. In fact absolute poverty is practically gone in most Western countries, and our lifespans are longer than ever before. Each and every one of us has more rights and freedoms, access to education and clean water, as well as a social safety net that can "save us" if the need arises. That's what love is all about, isn't it? Helping those in need?

 

For me, it is a little bit more than that. The moment I asked Christ into my life, a number of personal, destructive behaviors left me (I had not anticipated these). Also, I received a peace that I never had before. Like you, I used to lose a lot of sleep because of the uncertainty of life. Until I met the author of life

 

This theme came up again and again through my conversations at various churches. There were basically two types of Christians:

 

1. People that were born and raised Christian and remained that way throughout their lives.

 

2. People that were born to "Christian" parents, who perhaps didn't act in ways that were consistent with Christian values. Those people lost their way, and often turned to drugs or alcohol and this wasn't making them happy. They turned back to the church, and the message resonated with them, and they changed their lives for the better.

 

And this is why I don't criticize religion with the same fervor as others. I know it can help. Regardless of whether or not it's true.

 

 

I mean a belief does not just pop out of nowhere. It can be rooted in some evidence (that doesn't mean it has to though!).

 

Agreed (again!!). But this is true for all beliefs (i.e. Islam, Hinduism, Scientology, Budhism, etc.). They all think their beliefs are rooted in evidence. Which is why I think the "smart" religious folks would embrace science...but they don't.

 

In terms of comparing one religion against another, I do think the justifications for those belief systems differ in terms of plausibility. Most of these religions have a sacred text, so we could examine each of them. Mainly what we would be doing here is a theological analysis (systematic theology). I have given a few about Islam, such as their assertion Jesus did not die. That basically goes against all historical scholarship (even the most skeptical like Bart Ehrman). So, I think from the historical perspective (that is mainly what we have discussed), there is more justification for Christianity than Islam.

 

Which is exactly what a Christian would say. I'm sure if I was speaking to a Muslim, they'd trot out all the evidence as to why Christianity is wrong. Again - these are religious beliefs that have nothing to do with truth. Forget the bible. Forget the Qu'ran. Just give us real evidence that either of your gods exist and you change the world.

 

But I agree, with you we should examine various religions for justification and compare them one against the other. I personally believe Christians need to go to a higher level in their understanding (I believe the bible teaches this too). Many have no knowledge about other religions, history of the bible, doctrine, theology, apologetics, etc. Paul would debate with Greek philosophers and the Jews. Peter said to grow in knowledge to provide others with a reason for our hope.

 

Again, I think religions should embrace science and use it. I think you TFW, specifically, could certainly design an experiment that could determine whether or not prayer actually works. And if praying to Yahweh actually has an effect that is greater than random chance, that would convince so many people! Of course assuming that the results are replicable.

Edited July 31, 2015 by Weezy1973

[TheFinalWord]

Definitely agree with this! Funny how a non-believer and a Christian can be on the same page on so many things...

 

Very true friend!

 

Descartes, indeed. But this is where our views part. I don't think enough evidence to satisfy our own selves is getting us any closer to the actual truth. The truth exists regardless of what we believe. If your standard applies, than Islam is equally as true as Scientology because the people that believe it have enough evidence to satisfy themselves. But clearly, they can't both be true.

 

At least you agree an absolute truth exists. Most atheists/agnostics I have encountered don't. Maybe that's why we seem to have a lot in common.

 

True, but a properly basic belief can be challenged in light of other evidence. For example, Mormons can claim a "burning in the bosom" when they read the book of Mormon. What we need to do is find some common ground (both religions believe in the bible) to either refute or affirm a properly basic belief. Christianity affirms that people can be spiritually deceived, and have genuine spiritual experiences that are false.

 

Yes, true enough. I think the problem is trying to encapsulate the problem as purely theological. Truth has nothing to do with belief, religion, or philosophy. It is real. It has to do with reality. Like I said previously, science is in the business of discovering what is true about the universe. Religions, including Christianity, should embrace that.

 

The statement you just made that truth has nothing to do with belief, religion, or philosophy is itself a philosophical position.

 

Again, I agree with this. We can't really know for sure - and we have to admit fully that what we are getting at any point is the historians interpretation of history, and not the truth about what happened. My major problems are with the supernatural claims in the bible. The rest of it I'm much more liable to believe, just because they actually abide by the laws of physics and whatnot in our universe.

 

Sure, I understand. If you want I can point you to some good books on interpreting supernatural claims.

 

And America is really the only Western country with a significant number of fundamentalist Christians. I don't think it's a coincidence that a scientifically illiterate country has a relatively larger percentage of creationists. And as I intimated previously, this is actually holding Christianity back.

 

Well, the head of the National Institutes of Health in United States, Dr. Francis Collins, is a creationist (helped with Human Genome Project). He believes in theistic evolution. So I supposed you have to define creationism. However, creationism isn't taught in public schools, so I see the failing more on the side of education, not because of religion (that's a whole can of worms). At its core, creationism only means you believe God created the universe. There are a few major views within creationism:

 

• The BioLogos View
  
• Young Earth Creationism
  
• Old Earth Creationism
  
• Intelligent Design
  
• Scientism
  

 

I'm not a proponent of moral relativism myself.

 

Great! Another point of agreement

 

I believe you're correct here. I think getting real data on religion is difficult at the best of times. People might claim to be a certain religion but not live their lives that way. If someone was raised by Christians, and identifies as Christian, but never goes to church and has never read the bible, are they still Christian?

 

All that is required to be a Christian is to...

 

Declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

 

Notice, that doesn't mean you have to be young earth creationist, have all the answers, etc.

 

I've really been thinking about this, and my interpretation is a bit different. Again, my main objections are to the supernatural claims. And I know most Christians will disagree with this, but hear me out:

 

What we refer to as the afterlife is in fact what is after our life. So essentially Jesus was preaching to leave the world a better place for those that come after we die. And what's really amazing is that those nations that are predominantly Christian have done just that! We have tackled poverty and illness. In fact absolute poverty is practically gone in most Western countries, and our lifespans are longer than ever before. Each and every one of us has more rights and freedoms, access to education and clean water, as well as a social safety net that can "save us" if the need arises. That's what love is all about, isn't it? Helping those in need?

 

Very true!

 

What you have identified is some of the side effects of following the Lord. When God is honored, a blessing is poured out and the environment changes in a positive way (it can also be corrupted by those seeking to use the name of God for profit). During his ministry, Christ took on the role of a servant. He exemplified this when He washed the disciples feet (I like this film is it is verbatim from the gospel of John). In those days, everyone wore sandals and mainly walked. So you can imagine their feet were dirty. Normally, a servant would wash the people's feet when they came into a home. It was considered a lowest job for a servant. However, Christ washed the feet of His disciples as an example for us. Paul also provided a lot of principles for living in community, such as working hard, not gossiping, putting others before yourselves, recognizing and appreciating diversity of gifts and talents, etc.

 

Christ provided principles both for this life, but mainly provided principles regarding eternal life. This idea that Jesus would overthrow Rome and establish an earthly kingdom was very much the prevailing wisdom of the time. However, Christ's purpose was to sacrifice His life to provide those that believe in him with eternal life.

 

This theme came up again and again through my conversations at various churches. There were basically two types of Christians:

 

1. People that were born and raised Christian and remained that way throughout their lives.

 

2. People that were born to "Christian" parents, who perhaps didn't act in ways that were consistent with Christian values. Those people lost their way, and often turned to drugs or alcohol and this wasn't making them happy. They turned back to the church, and the message resonated with them, and they changed their lives for the better.

 

And this is why I don't criticize religion with the same fervor as others. I know it can help. Regardless of whether or not it's true.

 

Good overview. There is a third group, those that have never heard the gospel and receive it at church. That was the largest group I have encountered. Also, being raised in a Christian home can mean a lot of things. It may just mean a bible is somewhere in the house and the family goes to church on Easter and Christmas. I guess that is some inkling of exposure to Christianity, but not much. The main benefit was have in American is freedom to read the bible and explore on our own.

 

Agreed (again!!). But this is true for all beliefs (i.e. Islam, Hinduism, Scientology, Budhism, etc.). They all think their beliefs are rooted in evidence. Which is why I think the "smart" religious folks would embrace science...but they don't.

 

Well, quite a few do. Francis Collins for example. There are others, Hugh Ross is pretty popular. He's a day-age creationist that has attempted to build a testable model of creation. Here's

he put up the other day from a lecture he gave at a university. I personally think there is enough historical and philosophical evidence that scientific would be icing on the cake, but not the end all be all.

 

Which is exactly what a Christian would say. I'm sure if I was speaking to a Muslim, they'd trot out all the evidence as to why Christianity is wrong. Again - these are religious beliefs that have nothing to do with truth. Forget the bible. Forget the Qu'ran. Just give us real evidence that either of your gods exist and you change the world.

 

I would submit that even if there were this evidence, it wouldn't change anyone's mind. In the bible, Jesus performed miracles right in front of people and they still did not believe. Jesus tells a parable about a rich man in hell whom begs Abraham to send a messenger to his brothers so they an avoid "this place of torment". Abraham tells him "they have Moses and the prophets (scriptures of that day)" The rich man responds, "no, that won't convince them, but if someone comes back from the dead, they will repent." Abraham responds, "if they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."

 

The reason the bible cannot be forgotten in this investigation is the gospel message is the vehicle God chose to convert people. He could have used science, philosophy, history, or any other of form of human wisdom. Instead, he chose something foolish from man's perspective: preaching. That will always be the main vehicle. Human wisdom will always at best be peripheral.

For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles…But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, so that no one may boast before him.

 

Again, I think religions should embrace science and use it. I think you TFW, specifically, could certainly design an experiment that could determine whether or not prayer actually works. And if praying to Yahweh actually has an effect that is greater than random chance, that would convince so many people! Of course assuming that the results are replicable.

 

Thanks! That is nice of you to say!

 

Well, doubly blind intercessory prayer trials have been conducted in hospitals. A systematic review showed small effects (systematic review is a qualitative summary of quantitative data, extracted systematically) another meta-analysis showed no effect (meta-analysis combines the statistical effect of several studies to effectively increasing the sample size thereby increasing statistical power). My guess is setting up this type of study is really difficult. Convincing people God exists from this type of research would be a miracle itself haha. Like most research, there will be studies that counter the findings, which will muddy the waters. Funding for medical research will primarily go to producing medical treatments such as new drugs, surgeries, etc. Personally I am not sure I could engage in such research. Christ taught not to put the Lord to the test. I could give some personal examples of intercessory prayer in my own life, but you would have to take me at my word. But thanks for the vote of confidence! Another approach is people could pray themselves for God to show them and provide them with wisdom.

Edited August 3, 2015 by TheFinalWord

[johan]

Why only "God" or "not God"? One or none? Why not several?

[autumnnight]

The thread starter believes in one God (as do I). That is probably why it was framed that way. Of course, if someone cannot or will not believe in one God, it is not very likely that they will believe in numerous gods.

[pureinheart]

Why only "God" or "not God"? One or none? Why not several?

 

lol Johan....

[OpenBook]

Well, the existence of multiple gods is implied (I think) in Commandment #2 of Moses' Ten Commandments: "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me."

 

I've always wondered about that.

 

Oh - there's other gods besides Him?

 

And is it OK to have gods AFTER Him?

[joystickd]

Well, the existence of multiple gods is implied (I think) in Commandment #2 of Moses' Ten Commandments: "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me."

 

I've always wondered about that.

 

Oh - there's other gods besides Him?

 

And is it OK to have gods AFTER Him?

 

It's not but people still have them to this day under the guise of Christianity

[autumnnight]

Well, the existence of multiple gods is implied (I think) in Commandment #2 of Moses' Ten Commandments: "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me."

 

I've always wondered about that.

 

Oh - there's other gods besides Him?

 

And is it OK to have gods AFTER Him?

 

During the time the Ten Commandments were given, there were lots of cultures who worshiped a variety of gods. That does not mean they were all real. This verse means that He is the one true god. In other words, don't mix me with your idols.

 

No, the Bible does not support multiple real gods.

[endlessabyss]

During the time the Ten Commandments were given, there were lots of cultures who worshiped a variety of gods. That does not mean they were all real. This verse means that He is the one true god. In other words, don't mix me with your idols.

 

No, the Bible does not support multiple real gods.

 

Ehhhh, from what I have gathered the Jews worshipped a host of Gods (Baal, Asherha, El)

 

The reason they officially made it Yahweh was because that is the God who helped them in times of war, and they made a covenant with him around the time of Joshua.

 

But they always broke the covenant during times of peace.

[autumnnight]

Ehhhh, from what I have gathered the Jews worshipped a host of Gods (Baal, Asherha, El)

 

The reason they officially made it Yahweh was because that is the God who helped them in times of war, and they made a covenant with him around the time of Joshua.

 

But they always broke the covenant during times of peace.

 

Maybe so. I think I'll just stick with the one though.

[SSJROMANCE]

I DO not believe in God although I do believe there is some other higher form somewhere. BUT I do not believe some all powerful God is listening to your prayers answering your prayers guiding you in life making good things happen etc etc etc. I have had a great life and have great morals and integrity and character and never been to church except for a short stint when I told my wife I would give it a try. Both good things and bad things have happened to me - just like anybody else but I do not attribute any of them to God or the devil for that matter.

 

I know many people who claim to follow God but have no morals or integrity and a questionable character. My wife has insanely become religious and claims everything good that happens is because of God and everything bad that happens is because of the devil (that is new - before she claimed free will). No wonder she has a low self esteem. She never gives herself credit except when she fails.

 

There are so many holes with this whole religion thing that I don't even bother discussing it anymore (and here I am). Christians always have some explanation no matter how silly it sounds and when they can't explain something the default answer is God works in mysterious ways. But one thing for sure is that I will never convince religious people in my beliefs and vice versa. That is one thing we will always agree on.

 

Having said that I get the sense of feeling good knowing that an all powerful being is guiding you through life. I get that. I feels good. You feel happy. Yes sure I would too. But on the flip side I feel great knowing that I am the only one in control of my life and that I'm not following some fantasy risking my life on a prayer that is never answered. I think I feel happier thinking about that and will stick with it.

 

Good luck!

[autumnnight]

I don't expect to convince anyone that there is a God. I also don't expect a respectful person to denigrate me because I DO believe. I'm not ever going to pound anyone with a Bible or get into a circular debate that devolves into me being a sarcastic jerk (because that is sort of the antithesis of acting like a Christian). However, I will call out condescension every time.

[TouchedByViolet]

Religion and all the supernatural stuff has always seemed like silly stories to me. If you just objectively think about religion it doesn't add up. How many different thousands of religious groups exist on earth and how many have existed since humans appeared. It's all stories. Gods and people come and go. The universe's vast scale is incomprehensible in size and we are such a small part of it. Religion provides comfort and structure to a scary world. That's why it exists and persists.