Clarence_Boddicker Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 I got the idea for this thread from the firearms prohibition thread. Of course not all or even most men are violent towards women. Statistics do prove that the vast majority of violent crimes are committed by men. Why is this? Is the cause biological or societal? Is testosterone a factor or even a root cause? Is our patriarchal society the cause? Something else? Opinions please. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Robert Z Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Why are men so violent? https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/experiments-in-philosophy/201202/why-are-men-so-violent 1 Link to post Share on other sites
darkmoon Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 the same guy that terrifies his wife would run a mile from a bruiser in a bar, the temper and body language would be submissive, it is a pecking order phenomenon 6 Link to post Share on other sites
acrosstheuniverse Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Anger issues usually, taken out on somebody weaker than themselves who poses less of a threat than a guy who might fight back hard. Sometimes it can be learned behaviour, if a child witnesses domestic violence even just for the first few years of its life, it can be ingrained in them that violence is an appropriate way to solve conflict and although once we become adults we know that it's wrong, it can be far harder for that person to avoid lashing out in anger than for somebody who has never lived with domestic violence. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
TaraMaiden2 Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Let me first and foremost, emphatically state that I deplore any type of violence, whichever gender is the hitter. It's unacceptable, unforgivable and without any form of justification whatsoever. I'm not talking about legitimate self-defence here, just the unprovoked, senseless attacks. That said, yes: there is no question that the incidents of women being abused far outnumber the opposite scenarios. And I think it's part of our history. Ever since men got wise to a patriarchal mode of religion, women have drawn the short straw. Once upon a time when people worshipped 'Gods', the feminine deity was every bit as much of value and importance, as the male. More so, at times. Things took a nosedive roughly when one God - seen to be male - flexed his muscles, and women were relegated to a subservient and second-class role. Women today, all over the world, are still suffering as a result of religious restriction, social ignorance and stubborn refusal to acknowlege women every bit as deserving as men of respect and equality. Not necessary physical, not necessarily professional. But as human beings, as citizens as equal and active members of society, we should be recognised as worthy of everything available to our male counterparts. Forget physical attributes. Forget stamina. Forget biology in general. But those guilty, should quit hitting us, physically, emotionally, socially and financially. Remember, if it hadn't been for your mothers, you wouldn't even be here. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 (edited) Testosterone is a factor in more than one way. It makes them stronger than women, so a certain number of men take advantage of that. But mainly it makes them more aggressive in general. Different other things contribute, of course. Someone with a bad childhood or sometimes even some trauma may have uncontrolled rage issues. They may not want to act out but just lose it. Entitlement is thought to be a big factor and at that time (pre-internet) they were thought to have more serial killers in the U.S. and I know one profiler, John Douglas thought it was due to entitlement. Of course, the other side of that is maybe we're just better at reporting and apprehending killers and rapists. Maybe some other countries have them and have too much fear to report them. Then the two main psychological types who commit violent crimes are low-self esteem people and sociopaths. Sociopaths just have no empathy for much of anything and can't relate to someone's suffering. Low-self esteem people typically get violent in relation to relationships not working out and their inability to let go, and it's really hard to explain but they more or less incorporate the other person into their own identity to make themselves feel less worthless. So they feel they're destroying them when the person leaves them or refuses to be with them. Both types are usually stalkers. The low self-esteem stalker may imagine a relationship even thought here isn't one. Can't overlook addicts who may end up killing someone while burglarizing or a drug deal gone bad. Another type of low-self-esteem killer is the ambush killer. He may have something that he is very self-conscious about like a disfigurement or speech impediment and doesn't want to come face to face but will ambush from behind. Those types are thankfully pretty rare, but there are a few really nasty serial killers of that type. Usually, that type stops short of ambushing and may stalk or may give up or may look for really, for example, drunk incapacitated women to come on to or try to get them alone. In that respect, they show aspects of necrophilia because they can't deal with a fully lucid woman. They're too anxious and self-conscious or fearful. So they may not try to kill, but they may be somewhere in the sexual offender category like peeping, stalking, etc. And of course, you have some people with mental illness who become psychotic and kill because a voice is telling them to or they're generally paranoid and just not in control of themselves. The one who comes to mind is the female killer in Texas who drowned her kids. There's actually two of them pretty similar. She had already been diagnosed as not to be left alone with them. But of course, the husband has to go to the bathroom or get groceries sometime. So in those cases, they are legally insane when they commit the crime. A lot of people try to say they are insane, but few of them are legally insane. One of the best ways to tell is a really insane person would just as soon kill someone on the street in front of a crowd. They won't conceal their crime. Anyone who conceals their crime knows it was wrong and so can't be deemed legally insane. Edited May 28, 2015 by preraph Link to post Share on other sites
Quiet Storm Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 It's usually about control, IMO. When women feel as if they have no control over their relationships or lives, they often get depressed, cry and internalize the feelings. When controlling men feel they are losing control over a woman, they often express that anger outwardly, towards the person that he feels wronged him. We aren't just automatically born with coping skills, they are modeled by those around us. So a guy with good parents might be taught to manage his anger with exercise, music, sports, etc. A guy without that guidance will feel anger but have no idea hope to cope with it and nowhere to direct it. Even with little kids, boys are likely to hit and push others, while girls cry or detach. Teen boys will feel anger and will vandalize and fight to feel power and control, while teen girls often feel depressed and may try to feel in control by cutting or developing an eating disorder. So I think it's because we process our feelings differently (in general, there are exceptions), with men punishing the world and women punishing themselves. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
jen1447 Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 What causes men to be violent towards women? As$hole-dom, for one thing. 6 Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 It's usually about control, IMO. When women feel as if they have no control over their relationships or lives, they often get depressed, cry and internalize the feelings. When controlling men feel they are losing control over a woman, they often express that anger outwardly, towards the person that he feels wronged him. We aren't just automatically born with coping skills, they are modeled by those around us. So a guy with good parents might be taught to manage his anger with exercise, music, sports, etc. A guy without that guidance will feel anger but have no idea hope to cope with it and nowhere to direct it. Even with little kids, boys are likely to hit and push others, while girls cry or detach. Teen boys will feel anger and will vandalize and fight to feel power and control, while teen girls often feel depressed and may try to feel in control by cutting or developing an eating disorder. So I think it's because we process our feelings differently (in general, there are exceptions), with men punishing the world and women punishing themselves. There was a shocking Yale study a couple of years ago that found that children are not "born good" at all. They have to be trained to be nice people. They did some different age groups, including infants and toddlers and up around 7, I think it was at different times, different studies. They found that even young toddlers were greedy and punishing to other young toddlers. One finding was they liked best those who liked the same thing they did. But they also found that if they were given treats they could share or not and the option to share them or not, they would take fewer treats for themselves if it meant being able to totally withhold a treat from the other child. So it was something like I can give you 2 treats and the other child gets 1 treat OR I can give you 1 treat and the other child gets none -- and they'd choose the latter. Greedy little nits! You can find the study by googling Yale infant study and then once there, you can find the other studies. So anyone who is raising their kid thinking love and modeling alone will guarantee a considerate child is wrong. You have to actively teach them to be nice to others or in some cases they will just take and take. Link to post Share on other sites
No Limit Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 the same guy that terrifies his wife would run a mile from a bruiser in a bar, the temper and body language would be submissive, it is a pecking order phenomenon Not always. My dad terrified my mom at home (even choked her once while she was pregnant with me) and would act out whenever he felt like it, to prove his "manliness". Had a tooth pulled out without any anesthesia at all, or once made another car stop, got the driver out and threatened him with a knife for fun. Pretty black humor. Link to post Share on other sites
newmoon Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 ...A lot of people try to say they are insane, but few of them are legally insane. One of the best ways to tell is a really insane person would just as soon kill someone on the street in front of a crowd. They won't conceal their crime. Anyone who conceals their crime knows it was wrong and so can't be deemed legally insane. quite agree with everything you posted except that last sentence. someone deemed legally insane is still quite capable of covering their crime, and it might, in fact, be an extension of the insanity - how did they go about covering it up? were they taking steps a 'normal' person would take? etc. the legally insane are also quite capable of pre-planning and structuring their crime. often, the voices some people hear have been plotting with them for a while. most people who claim insanity are not insane, you're right. it literally takes years to be diagnosed with something significant enough to qualify as insane under the law. people have to show a lengthy history of medications, treatments, psychological testing and assessments, etc. Link to post Share on other sites
thefooloftheyear Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 It takes a special type of person to put a hand on a woman...IME, it usually isn't the type of scary guy that can clear out a bar full of guys or shows a lot of heavy testosterone laden qualities... I confess to have been that type(latter) at one point in my life..Not so much anymore...well...at least id need more of an impetus....But I would never dare lay a hand on a woman or child.. Actually, I spent some time in a volunteer vocational program for hardened inmates...I can tell you most would slit another man's throat for looking at him the wrong way, but most felt it was the height of cowardice to place a hand on a woman.. Most of the guys that physically abuse women are a bunch of pussies, really... TFY 2 Link to post Share on other sites
jay1983 Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 My ex burnt my dinner so I hit her with a right hook. She shook it off and beat me down with the cooking pot and then poured hot grease on me. Then she purposely burnt food every night of the week. Link to post Share on other sites
Radu Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 I got the idea for this thread from the firearms prohibition thread. Of course not all or even most men are violent towards women. Statistics do prove that the vast majority of violent crimes are committed by men. Why is this? Is the cause biological or societal? Is testosterone a factor or even a root cause? Is our patriarchal society the cause? Something else? Opinions please. Some recent research has suggested a link between Personality Disorders (they are mostly learned behaviours though they can also have psysiological causes), and abuse. Men in general have the advantage of weight and strength to their side, which is why most violent crimes and physical abuse is comitted by them (it is simply a convenient tool). Women tend to prefer to do emotional/psychological abuse because of the lack in strength versus their mates (though i would suspect that against children they are more likely to commit physical abuse than against men), and also many of their crimes tend to involve trickery of some kind. One of the things that stuck with me when i talked with an older lawyer is about how many of the women in prison were involved in theft that used befriending the victim to drop it's guard (i forgot the english word for it). To summarise, people who are likely to abuse do so because they are broken inside and abuse gives them a sense of control. For men, that is more likely to take the form of physical abuse. Link to post Share on other sites
Robert Z Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 (edited) One uncomfortable point that I think deserves to be made. As one friend of mine has said about his wife any number of times, "If a man talked to me like that I would deck him!" I know the feeling. My ex used to go way above and beyond what I would tolerate from any man, including trying to put her knee in my nuts once. She only got violent a few times but it was ALWAYS her and never me. And it took every bit of self control that I had to not deck her. She was simply out of control and vicious. She pushed and pushed until she nearly drove me right over the edge. I honestly thought I would die of stroke due to her provocations. The basic problem is that men and women play be a different set of rules. For example, no one thinks much of a woman slapping a man. But turn that around and all hell breaks loose. So some women feel entitled to be as vicious as they want with no regards for decency. And sometimes they push men beyond their limits including by being physical. I am about as non-violent as anyone can be but I will tell you, my ex could drive a saint to murder. Edited May 29, 2015 by Robert Z 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Auspecial Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 Why are men so violent? https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/experiments-in-philosophy/201202/why-are-men-so-violent Nice article, thanks Robert Z. I think its a combination of reasons, many as listed in this article. Link to post Share on other sites
TaraMaiden2 Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 One uncomfortable point that I think deserves to be made. As one friend of mine has said about his wife any number of times, "If a man talked to me like that I would deck him!" I know the feeling. My ex used to go way above and beyond what I would tolerate from any man, including trying to put her knee in my nuts once. She only got violent a few times but it was ALWAYS her and never me. And it took every bit of self control that I had to not deck her. She was simply out of control and vicious. She pushed and pushed until she nearly drove me right over the edge. I honestly thought I would die of stroke due to her provocations. The basic problem is that men and women play be a different set of rules. For example, no one thinks much of a woman slapping a man. But turn that around and all hell breaks loose. So some women feel entitled to be as vicious as they want with no regards for decency. And sometimes they push men beyond their limits including by being physical. I am about as non-violent as anyone can be but I will tell you, my ex could drive a saint to murder. Without wishing in any way to trivialise or slight your post, this isn't what the thread is about. In fact, if you read my post, I do put in a 'disclaimer' at the beginning. Provocation is never right. But retaliation is also wrong. (Self-defence is NOT retaliation'.) Guys who hit women who happen to be mouthy, are still guys who hit women. Countless times we tell women to walk away from relationships where they feel belittled, browbeaten, not listened to, and taken for granted. If a woman loses it and begins to retaliate, she's seen as insubordinate and fair game. No person is ever fair game to violence. And if a woman slaps a man, first of all, that's a huge red flag. Unacceptable. But sometimes (and this is no excuse, it's just a point in keeping with this thread) a woman's slap is the equivalent of the abuse she feels she's getting from the guy. A slap from a woman smarts. It hurts and brings instinctive tears to the eyes. A slap from a man could knock a woman over. Any man that's 'pushed beyond his limits' needs to do the same thing we advise: Walk away and not rise to the bait. If a situation is beyond limits, then it's unacceptable, and perfectly right to detach from. Which is precisely what you did. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 Testosterone and socialization, as far as 'cause', individually dependent on genetics, would be my opinion. Generally, a woman's actions or words are irrelevant in that equation. Watch parents work with a male toddler and child and role model him. Big part of the equation. Especially watch the father. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
contact1 Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 In general, what would cause a man to be violent is just a nature instinct of being dominant, the use of force in order to gain an advantage. The society that we live in and what has developed is very counter intuitive to how many other animals live, where strength and cunning hold such high value, survive of the fittest and that sort of thing. We now live in a world where every human being is considered to have value, and those that have difficulties are aided to make their lives easier. Not to say it is wrong to have such a society, it is good to look after your fellow man, but it is the reality of how we live. Thus when a man uses violence to gain an upper hand, it is look in a negative fashion, because it is not "right". With all that in mind, I do not advocate the use of violence at all unless it is for the preservation of life. My ex wife use to be physically abusive with me, throwing cell phones, lamps, plates of food, just about anything she could find at me and usually aiming at my head. Never once did I ever raise my hand against her, I just removed myself from the situation. In hindsight, I should have left the marriage much sooner due to this abuse, but live and learn I suppose. Link to post Share on other sites
lollipopspot Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 My ex burnt my dinner so I hit her with a right hook. Definitely not surprised by that. Link to post Share on other sites
lollipopspot Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 The basic problem is that men and women play be a different set of rules... And sometimes they push men beyond their limits including by being physical. No. The person who is violent is always responsible for that. It's the typical abuser mentality to say that "they made me do it." If I outweigh someone by 50 pounds, I don't hit them no matter the provocation, unless it's self defense. I remove myself from their life. And if I repeatedly put myself in the position with the same person where I might want to do violence towards them, that's all on me that I didn't walk away. What you say is like saying, "I battered a child or dog or someone weaker them me because they kept pushing me beyond my limits." You walk away or get help, you don't blame the other person for your violence. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Radu Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 One uncomfortable point that I think deserves to be made. As one friend of mine has said about his wife any number of times, "If a man talked to me like that I would deck him!" I know the feeling. My ex used to go way above and beyond what I would tolerate from any man, including trying to put her knee in my nuts once. She only got violent a few times but it was ALWAYS her and never me. And it took every bit of self control that I had to not deck her. She was simply out of control and vicious. She pushed and pushed until she nearly drove me right over the edge. I honestly thought I would die of stroke due to her provocations. The basic problem is that men and women play be a different set of rules. For example, no one thinks much of a woman slapping a man. But turn that around and all hell breaks loose. So some women feel entitled to be as vicious as they want with no regards for decency. And sometimes they push men beyond their limits including by being physical. I am about as non-violent as anyone can be but I will tell you, my ex could drive a saint to murder. Interesting point, i'd like to add some stuff for your consideration : - look up statistics on physical violence in lesbian couples [you'll be shocked] - look up trends in behaviour in England during girls night out, especially involving alcohol and violence Also, they can use their full strength knowing that we won't hit back. We can't even use a part because since you are a kid you are told 'never hit a girl', and society is both aware of physical abuse coming from males and even our own gender will immediately intervene if we act this way. Link to post Share on other sites
Diezel Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 Ever argued with a woman who knew she was wrong but wouldn't concede either way and just kept arguing with you? That is infuriating and could send many men to the brink of violence. Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 Believing that violence is justified is one reason men are violent towards women. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Revolver Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 The vast majority of violence towards women is from men they know. Family member, intimate partner, friends etc This idea of random men jumping out of the bushes raping and killing women is law and order Svu fantasy. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
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