Marital Concepts from the 1950s

[123321]

I'd never advocate returning to the 50s ideology.

 

Me either. People in general, women particularly, and women on this discussion board especially seem to read the words and then assign any meaning to the words that suits their fancy. Then they argue about something.

 

For fun, I often play along, and argue for a while. It makes them feel happy and loved.

 

My initial comment, which I still stand by, was simply that they were wrong then (the 50s) and I'm not convinced we have it right now.

[Got it]

Me either. People in general, women particularly, and women on this discussion board especially seem to read the words and then assign any meaning to the words that suits their fancy. Then they argue about something.

 

For fun, I often play along, and argue for a while. It makes them feel happy and loved.

 

My initial comment, which I still stand by, was simply that they were wrong then (the 50s) and I'm not convinced we have it right now.

 

So what women were arguing against your last statement?

[Got it]

I'm pretty sure everyone could get married in the 50s right? Or are you trying to divert this thread?

 

You are a prickly little thing aren't you?

 

You were talking about less than great ideals in the 50's so I throw one in there.

 

And no, interracial marriages were not allowed in some states, frowned upon in many. Nor were gay marriages. So no, not everyone could get married in the 50s.

[123321]

So this is how many people saw marriage before the divorce rate went through the roof.

 

 

A Glimpse into Marriage Advice from the 1950s | World of Psychology

 

You are a prickly little thing aren't you?

 

Let me help you understnd the topic: "...To be a successful wife is a career in itself, requiring among other things, the qualities of a diplomat, a businesswoman, a good cook, a trained nurse, a schoolteacher, a politician and a glamour girl.”

 

...We employers realize how often the wrong wife can break the right man. This doesn’t mean that the wife is necessarily wrong for the man but that she is wrong for the job. On the other hand, more often than is realized the wife is the chief factor in the husband’s success in his career.

 

...Even when alcohol, affairs or abuse was the issue in a failing marriage, wives were still responsible for making the marriage work — and for likely causing their husbands to stray, drink or be violent in the first place.... We have found in our experience, that when a husband leaves his home, he may be seeking refuge from an unpleasant environment. Could it be that your husband feels that he is not understood or appreciated in his own home? What might there be in your relations to him that could make him feel that way? Could you have stressed your contribution to your marriage in such a manner as to have belittled the part he has played and thus made him uncomfortable in his presence

 

...In addition to conducting a dignified campaign, women also needed to work on themselves, as a four-part series in 1954 in Ladies’ Home Journal suggested. In it, a single 29-year-old woman wrote about her counseling sessions in a “Marriage Readiness Course” at the American Institute of Family Relations. She learned that she needed to lower her expectations, improve her appearance and work on her intimacy issues — which she did and eventually landed a groom"

 

From the OP.

 

I can understand skipping much of a long thread, but you really should at least read the OP. Seriously. Maybe the first page even. Just a suggestion.

[Got it]

While I don't think that feminism ended up being the magic bullet for happiness women in the past thought it would be, I'd never advocate returning to the 50s ideology. Not because it was misogynistic (and it was) but because theandare certain aspects of feminism that directly impact my life in a positive way. Men in the 50s were typically the only ones who worked, abd his entire family was dependent on him. I've been there done that, and it's NOT fun. It's highly stressful, in fact. Rejecting that way of life was very liberating, and it's easier to reject today because women are more inclined to take greater responsibility for their financial security today.

 

I can use that to go my own way by expecting my partners to follow that ideology. I expect my partner to work and care for herself. If she can't or won't, then she's not suitable for me.

 

She's a grown a$$ adult, not a large child. She can take care of herself.

 

The other piece, in the 50s many more families could sustain their livestyle on one income. That is almost impossible nowadays.

 

And I do agree, that is a lot of pressure for one party to handle. Being the sole breadwinner puts so much of your family's (almost) existence in your hands. I think, nowadays with recessions, lay offs, restructurings, lack of pensions, etc. That is too much to have all the eggs in one basket.

[123321]

So what women were arguing against your last statement?

 

Read the thread?

[123321]

The other piece, in the 50s many more families could sustain their livestyle on one income. That is almost impossible nowadays.

 

Do you think that is a cause or effect, or they have a shared root, or what though? Adding women into the market in WW2 did expand the labor pool, and in general increasing supply tends to decrease value. I would be surprised if this was the only factor but I'd be equally surprised if it wasn't a factor.

[xxoo]

Where did I say that? I said it was before the divorce rate went through the roof.

 

 

Considering that I only wrote one sentence, one would think you could get it right.

 

One sentence and a grin, to set up the long quote that followed:

 

A Glimpse into Marriage Advice from the 1950s

 

...To be a successful wife is a career in itself, requiring among other things, the qualities of a diplomat, a businesswoman, a good cook, a trained nurse, a schoolteacher, a politician and a glamour girl.”

 

...We employers realize how often the wrong wife can break the right man. This doesn’t mean that the wife is necessarily wrong for the man but that she is wrong for the job. On the other hand, more often than is realized the wife is the chief factor in the husband’s success in his career.

 

...Even when alcohol, affairs or abuse was the issue in a failing marriage, wives were still responsible for making the marriage work — and for likely causing their husbands to stray, drink or be violent in the first place.... We have found in our experience, that when a husband leaves his home, he may be seeking refuge from an unpleasant environment. Could it be that your husband feels that he is not understood or appreciated in his own home? What might there be in your relations to him that could make him feel that way? Could you have stressed your contribution to your marriage in such a manner as to have belittled the part he has played and thus made him uncomfortable in his presence

 

...In addition to conducting a dignified campaign, women also needed to work on themselves, as a four-part series in 1954 in Ladies’ Home Journal suggested. In it, a single 29-year-old woman wrote about her counseling sessions in a “Marriage Readiness Course” at the American Institute of Family Relations. She learned that she needed to lower her expectations, improve her appearance and work on her intimacy issues — which she did and eventually landed a groom

 

But if we take the study at its word, men were less happy then than they are now.

[123321]

But if we take the study at its word, men were less happy then than they are now.

 

I wouldn't be shocked, being the sole support for a family is pretty high pressure and sometimes feels thankless, having a partner as a safety net as well as other things that have improved probably is a great relief.

 

I doubt our current ideals are actually ideal though, and I bet in 65 years people will point and laugh at things you and I think are marvelous now.

[toolforgrowth]

I wouldn't be shocked, being the sole support for a family is pretty high pressure and sometimes feels thankless, having a partner as a safety net as well as other things that have improved probably is a great relief.

 

I doubt our current ideals are actually ideal though, and I bet in 65 years people will point and laugh at things you and I think are marvelous now.

 

That's it right there. My xWW was completely ungrateful for all the hard I put in at sucky jobs to keep the family afloat while she "pursued her dreams". What did I get for it? Cheated on.

 

To this day, she still can't understand why I want nothing to do when her and behave for all intents and purposes that she is essentially dead.

 

That's also contributing factor why I eschew marriage and accept no financial responsibility for anyone but myself and my daughter.

 

Feminism plays right into it. I can expect women to follow those ideals and essentially get me off the hook for it. Is it really no wonder that men are going their own way? Wouldn't you if you could? Wouldn't you keep all your money for yourself and live your life without accepting responsibility for another grown human being?

[xxoo]

I wouldn't be shocked, being the sole support for a family is pretty high pressure and sometimes feels thankless, having a partner as a safety net as well as other things that have improved probably is a great relief.

 

I doubt our current ideals are actually ideal though, and I bet in 65 years people will point and laugh at things you and I think are marvelous now.

 

I believe in progress, and I am certain that your second paragraph is true. Every generation improves upon the last, but not always in a direct line. There is error and adjustment, action/reaction, creativity and innovation, and then progress--often including legislation.

[123321]

I believe in progress, and I am certain that your second paragraph is true. Every generation improves upon the last, but not always in a direct line. There is error and adjustment, action/reaction, creativity and innovation, and then progress--often including legislation.

 

I vastly prefer education and public opinion over legislation, but I agree with the rest.

[toolforgrowth]

But why do you paint all women from one bad brush? You seem to believe that all women feel like this and this thread alone should show just the opposite.

 

You married (and divorced) a b%tch. It happens to the best of them.

 

I don't. I said I eschew marriage, not women. There is a significant difference.

[Got it]

I don't. I said I eschew marriage, not women. There is a significant difference.

 

Hmmmm, you are PRETTY critical about the female gender in . . . . well general. I haven't seen too many glowing accolades or attributes assigned to women in your posts. And so you tie your negative feelings about the female gender with marriage because the institution makes you vulnerable then.

 

It's okay, you are a little bitter. Like I said, happens to the best of them.

 

What I have heard from guys who had said experience WAY back in their rear view mirror, ultimately really makes them appreciate the nice ones.

[toolforgrowth]

Hmmmm, you are PRETTY critical about the female gender in . . . . well general. I haven't seen too many glowing accolades or attributes assigned to women in your posts. And so you tie your negative feelings about the female gender with marriage because the institution makes you vulnerable then.

 

It's okay, you are a little bitter. Like I said, happens to the best of them.

 

What I have heard from guys who had said experience WAY back in their rear view mirror, ultimately really makes them appreciate the nice ones.

 

Yes, I'm critical of women. That's because they're imperfect, fallible people. That doesn't mean I hate them, or dislike them. If I did, I wouldn't be in a very satisfying relationship at this very moment. And believe me, I appreciate her. She also has no desire to marry...ever. She mirrors my thought process and wants to stand on her own two feet financially with no help from me. In other words, she embodies exactly what I want in a partner.

 

Neither have I made any glowing accolades for men, either. I give compliments as they're due and when they're deserved. If they're not, I don't. I'm not going to compliment anyone, women included, just for the sake of complimenting them. If someone earns a compliment, I'll give them one.

 

Just because I'm aware of the horrible things some women are capable of doesn't mean I think all women are like that. But I don't forget, either.

 

Yes, I made a mistake in getting married. To err is human; to repeat the same mistake expecting different results is insanity.

 

This is the way some women are. I'm aware of it, and always will be, and will make decisions around that knowledge that is best for me. I'm sorry if that insults your sensibilities, but at the end of the day, that isn't my problem.

[toolforgrowth]

Hmmmm, you are PRETTY critical about the female gender in . . . . well general. I haven't seen too many glowing accolades or attributes assigned to women in your posts. And so you tie your negative feelings about the female gender with marriage because the institution makes you vulnerable then.

 

It's okay, you are a little bitter. Like I said, happens to the best of them.

 

What I have heard from guys who had said experience WAY back in their rear view mirror, ultimately really makes them appreciate the nice ones.

 

If it makes you feel any better, here's an honest critical assessment of men: I think that men, on average, are aggressive and filled with testosterone and have no idea how to constructively deal with their aggressive tendencies. I'm not sure if there's anything more irritating than a roided up jock who thinks there's nothing more to life than pumping iron and chasing tail.

 

And don't even get me started on guys who sag and wear hats with a straight, unbent visor. Or guys who take a Honda Civic hatchback and lower it even further, remove the muffler, and drive like an idiot just so anyone who isn't completely deaf can hear their stupid car.

 

Trust me...men are just as capable of stupid **** as women are. The difference for me is that I don't get into relationships with other men.

[jay1983]

Yes, I'm critical of women. That's because they're imperfect, fallible people. That doesn't mean I hate them, or dislike them. If I did, I wouldn't be in a very satisfying relationship at this very moment. And believe me, I appreciate her. She also has no desire to marry...ever. .

 

Exactly. You know I brought it up that other thread about marriage. There's a disconnect from reality on here. It's taboo to say anything about women on here. IRL if I say that I notice beautiful women have high earning husbands and live in the upperclass, any women I know would laugh and say "yeah I tends to be true" then we move on to something else.

 

say that here and you're branded a women hater and so on. I don't get it.

[jay1983]

Oh please, men are flawed, big time! If ain't one thing, it's another. I could go on all day about men. Lol

[Got it]

Yes, I'm critical of women. That's because they're imperfect, fallible people. That doesn't mean I hate them, or dislike them. If I did, I wouldn't be in a very satisfying relationship at this very moment. And believe me, I appreciate her. She also has no desire to marry...ever. She mirrors my thought process and wants to stand on her own two feet financially with no help from me. In other words, she embodies exactly what I want in a partner.

 

Neither have I made any glowing accolades for men, either. I give compliments as they're due and when they're deserved. If they're not, I don't. I'm not going to compliment anyone, women included, just for the sake of complimenting them. If someone earns a compliment, I'll give them one.

 

Just because I'm aware of the horrible things some women are capable of doesn't mean I think all women are like that. But I don't forget, either.

 

Yes, I made a mistake in getting married. To err is human; to repeat the same mistake expecting different results is insanity.

 

This is the way some women are. I'm aware of it, and always will be, and will make decisions around that knowledge that is best for me. I'm sorry if that insults your sensibilities, but at the end of the day, that isn't my problem.

 

What sensibilities? Just an observation based on what you post. That is the first you have said anything positive about an female. Sorry, be still my beating heart!

 

I have no issues saying something negative, it is when it seems to have the pendulum swung so far to one side that warrants the comment.

 

And actually this really is about your problem. You were married to the crazy spoiled lady, not me. But marry, don't marry, live in sin, don't live in sin, whatever rocks your little boat.

 

I learned a lot of great lessons from my prior marriage. And those lessons I have carried over to this marriage. But to each their own and all that jazz.

[toolforgrowth]

What sensibilities? Just an observation based on what you post. That is the first you have said anything positive about an female. Sorry, be still my beating heart!

 

I have no issues saying something negative, it is when it seems to have the pendulum swung so far to one side that warrants the comment.

 

And actually this really is about your problem. You were married to the crazy spoiled lady, not me. But marry, don't marry, live in sin, don't live in sin, whatever rocks your little boat.

 

I learned a lot of great lessons from my prior marriage. And those lessons I have carried over to this marriage. But to each their own and all that jazz.

 

I'm an atheist. I don't believe in sin.

 

You were the one who had an issue with the fact that I never complimented women. That is, by definition, your issue.

 

You bet, my marriage and my response to it are most definitely my issues. Your response to how I choose to do deal with it is not.

[WasOtherWoman]

Exactly. You know I brought it up that other thread about marriage. There's a disconnect from reality on here. It's taboo to say anything about women on here. IRL if I say that I notice beautiful women have high earning husbands and live in the upperclass, any women I know would laugh and say "yeah I tends to be true" then we move on to something else.

 

say that here and you're branded a women hater and so on. I don't get it.

 

I don't see what's to hate about the above... it's an awesome life!

[Got it]

If it makes you feel any better, here's an honest critical assessment of men: I think that men, on average, are aggressive and filled with testosterone and have no idea how to constructively deal with their aggressive tendencies. I'm not sure if there's anything more irritating than a roided up jock who thinks there's nothing more to life than pumping iron and chasing tail.

 

And don't even get me started on guys who sag and wear hats with a straight, unbent visor. Or guys who take a Honda Civic hatchback and lower it even further, remove the muffler, and drive like an idiot just so anyone who isn't completely deaf can hear their stupid car.

 

Trust me...men are just as capable of stupid **** as women are. The difference for me is that I don't get into relationships with other men.

 

But not all men. See I will argue this statement because it paints men, in general, as too aggressive and there are many men who aren't.

 

And the rest is just a petty shallow opinion on a superficial subset of fashion. Really isn't comparable. And you are pretty much insulting most of my boyfriends from high school.

 

But really the above is your honest summation about guys?

 

People are people and there are many different thinking and behavioral styles among both genders that I think it is hard to classify one to the other. And in all seriousness, if one researches personality assessments there is nothing that is attributed to one gender and not the other. So if personality breakdowns can have the same characteristics in both genders than maybe the assumptions of stereotypes being factual are really just social practices passed down from generation to generation and assumed to actually be something that they aren't.

[Got it]

I'm an atheist. I don't believe in sin.

 

You were the one who had an issue with the fact that I never complimented women. That is, by definition, your issue.

 

You bet, my marriage and my response to it are most definitely my issues. Your response to how I choose to do deal with it is not.

 

It was tongue in cheek.

 

S E N S I T I V E. Maybe what they say about men and getting feedback is true . . . Kidding.

[toolforgrowth]

It was tongue in cheek.

 

S E N S I T I V E. Maybe what they say about men and getting feedback is true . . . Kidding.

 

Whatever you say, Sugar Lips.

[Got it]

Whatever you say, Sugar Lips.

 

:laugh::laugh: Very funny! :laugh::laugh: