Marital Concepts from the 1950s

May 28, 2015

Modern marriage with two income earners is much safer for both men and women.

In our legal climate.

The practices of the 50s (marriage for life, kids, dog, etc) were well adapted to the legal climate of the 50s. The legal situation is now so screwed up that marriage can't work unless you find someone who earns the same as you do. How is that an improvement?

I am simply refusing to participate, as are other men, in the farce known as marriage.

May 28, 2015

Or go after sugar mommas and you can be the trophy husband. My husband calls me "sugar momma in training".

I would consider it.

May 28, 2015

I really don't think any of the anti-feminism, pro 50s style posters have provided a shred of evidence/studies/facts, to support the assertion that society and children are better off with traditional marriages.

That being said, I do think that the role of a man is a forgotten concept in the post-feminism era, and that in my mind is the thing that a lot of men are struggling with. What does it now mean to be a man?

Where girls can do anything and be anything, the same does not seem to hold true for boys. What is the male equivalent of a tomboy? Can a boy grow up wanting to be a stay at home dad as a life goal? Has the world opened up for men in the same way it has for women post-feminism?

What does masculinity even mean these days? Women certainly are still attracted to traditional masculine traits, yet they have no interest in a traditional life. Is it any wonder that many men on this forum question women's preference for something as inconsequential as height, when the only value it confers is masculinity, and masculinity is largely undefined?

If you're a parent raising a son, how do you now teach him to "be a man"? Or is the concept to "be a man" outdated?

One thing I can tell you that as a man, that the pressure to be masculine, strong, and unemotional is as potent as ever. Yet the role of men has changed. Is it any wonder that some men rail against the modern era, as what they're really afraid of is that they are no longer worth much.

And most importantly they're afraid that they're no longer worthy of a woman's love. And that is very scary indeed.

I asked my husband this and his response. First, that even needing to ask this is mind boggling to him. That the idea that if one is not the traditional provider that there is no other alternative. What he teaches his sons is to be respectful, others opinion matters, and be a partner. Not take traditional standards in believing someone should be there to cook and clean for you.

Being a man doesn't any more have one foot print. Being a man is a good spouse, good friend, participate and share equally, give as much as receive. Doesn't understand what else would be a man. What else more do you need to be?

What he really defines it as is being an equal partner in all things in life and not needing to focus on gender on what is "your share".

And then he asked me why I even read this stuff and feel a need to post while shaking his head. :laugh:

I this man. :love:

May 28, 2015

I asked my husband this and his response. First, that even needing to ask this is mind boggling to him. That the idea that if one is not the traditional provider that there is no other alternative. What he teaches his sons is to be respectful, others opinion matters, and be a partner. Not take traditional standards in believing someone should be there to cook and clean for you.

Being a man doesn't any more have one foot print. Being a man is a good spouse, good friend, participate and share equally, give as much as receive. Doesn't understand what else would be a man. What else more do you need to be?

What he really defines it as is being an equal partner in all things in life and not needing to focus on gender on what is "your share".

And then he asked me why I even read this stuff and feel a need to post while shaking his head. :laugh:

I this man. :love:

You realize that all you are doing is using your little world and making it the "standard"....Who cares what he(your H) thinks.?..Only you should, really..I dont mean that in a disrespectful way, but what makes him a recognized authority on this matter?

TFY

May 28, 2015

You realize that all you are doing is using your little world and making it the "standard"....Who cares what he(your H) thinks.?..Only you should, really..I dont mean that in a disrespectful way, but what makes him a recognized authority on this matter?

TFY

It doesn't. But to be fair, we all view reality through the lens of our personal experience. All she's doing is applying what her experience has been to the topic at hand. It doesn't make her an authority by any means. But that's all she can do...that's all anyone can do.

That's why I don't try to sway people into believing what I believe who haven't had similar experiences to mine. It's a complete waste of time. If people disagree with me, great. More power to them. The fact they disagree doesn't change my mind, and I live my life according to my experience, regardless of what anyone else thinks.

But the flip side is that I must grant others that same liberty.

May 28, 2015

And most importantly they're afraid that they're no longer worthy of a woman's love. And that is very scary indeed.

To me that isn't the issue. It is how many women are worthy of my love. I don't really care how accomplished or talented or amazing a woman might be if she can't be nice and respectful; if she feels entitled and wants to control my life. As I've said time and time again, I think many women have been brainwashed into disrespecting men at a core level. I wouldn't try to guess at percentages but I would say it is common; especially among women around my age and older. And I do see it in young women as well.

And I do think in part this results in precisely the situation you described - traditional expectations are placed on men but without any of the traditional benefits for men.

It was quite a moment when I realized that either my wife has total control over my sex life, or I have to get divorced or be a cheater. With that sort of balance in play, marriage is too risky to one's sex life to be considered. No marriage is worth living as a priest.

Edited May 28, 2015 by Robert Z

May 28, 2015

In our legal climate.

The practices of the 50s (marriage for life, kids, dog, etc) were well adapted to the legal climate of the 50s. The legal situation is now so screwed up that marriage can't work unless you find someone who earns the same as you do. How is that an improvement?

I am simply refusing to participate, as are other men, in the farce known as marriage.

Good point.

I've grown to love my country's legal climate where assets obtained before marriage, donations and inheritance belong to the individual who got them and no power can remove them [except for the individual itself if they decide to make them joint and spend it for both].

You realize that all you are doing is using your little world and making it the "standard"....Who cares what he(your H) thinks.?..Only you should, really..I dont mean that in a disrespectful way, but what makes him a recognized authority on this matter?

TFY

Her puppy-dog feelings of love.

May 28, 2015

To me that isn't the issue. It is how many women are worthy of my love. I don't really care how accomplished or talented or amazing a woman might be if she can't be nice and respectful; if she feels entitled and wants to control my life. As I've said time and time again, I think many women have been brainwashed into disrespecting men at a core level. I wouldn't try to guess at percentages but I would say it is common; especially among women around my age and older. And I do see it in young women as well.

And I do think in part this results in precisely the situation you described - traditional expectations are placed on men but without any of the traditional benefits for men.

It was quite a moment when I realized that either my wife has total control over my sex life, or I have to get divorced or be a cheater. With that sort of balance in play, marriage is too risky to one's sex life to be considered. No marriage is worth living as a priest.

That's because at a fundamental level feminism was not about equality.

Feminism was about reaching equality, giving women more power, through a moral panic where men were painted with a wide brush as monsters and marriage as the shackles that they use to enslave.

They used absolutes in defining these things, black and white stuff, because that's how you define 'evil' and get ppl to rise up against it.

And now, the men are steadily going MGTOW while women are more and more pissed [more unhappy then ever], and the only thing that might give balance is a law of just distribution of assets together with a new attitude towards men ... which we all know is not going to happen because it would require selfless behaviour and self-awareness from politicians.

In truth, things will go down at an accelerated pace until the eventual crash and ppl [the ones alive then] will pick up the pieces.

May 28, 2015

That's because at a fundamental level feminism was not about equality.

.

Feminism is about equality. Due to the gap in inequality the menz have to concede power to any sense of rebalance.

Where there are 10 seats at the board table held my men and three are to be held by women. That means three men are conceding a loss of power.

This isn't about women dominating but about men having to give up something. Which understandably many don't like. Marriage has traditionally been used to enslave women. To say otherwise implies that prior to divorce laws that women have genuine choice around leaving. Not "they could leave if they wanted to" but a genuine alternative to being married.

It didn't exist in the 1950's.

May 28, 2015

To me that isn't the issue. It is how many women are worthy of my love. I don't really care how accomplished or talented or amazing a woman might be if she can't be nice and respectful; if she feels entitled and wants to control my life. As I've said time and time again, I think many women have been brainwashed into disrespecting men at a core level. I wouldn't try to guess at percentages but I would say it is common; especially among women around my age and older. And I do see it in young women as well.

And I do think in part this results in precisely the situation you described - traditional expectations are placed on men but without any of the traditional benefits for men.

It was quite a moment when I realized that either my wife has total control over my sex life, or I have to get divorced or be a cheater. With that sort of balance in play, marriage is too risky to one's sex life to be considered. No marriage is worth living as a priest.

What would these traditional benefits be?

May 28, 2015

In our legal climate.

The practices of the 50s (marriage for life, kids, dog, etc) were well adapted to the legal climate of the 50s. The legal situation is now so screwed up that marriage can't work unless you find someone who earns the same as you do. How is that an improvement?

I am simply refusing to participate, as are other men, in the farce known as marriage.

I know many current SAHMs whose marriages are working, and mine worked as well before I returned to work. So I don't accept the premise that traditional marriage doesn't work now. It works precisely because it is by choice, and not as the result of lack of choice.

There have always been women who've been miserable in the limited role of housewife. Women with the personalities to be business executives, doctors, lawyers, and not given the opportunity. I remember having a "Little Golden Book" as a child called "Susan in the Drivers Seat", and the little boy and little girl just keep gushing about how, "Wow! A woman can be a police officer? A doctor? Wow!" That was big news!

Marriage in the 50s "worked" because women had little choice. They made do. They took pills, drank too much, hid abuse, had illegal abortions, and dreamed of more. It was no nirvana for women, and that is why women worked so hard to change the culture.

May 28, 2015

You realize that all you are doing is using your little world and making it the "standard"....Who cares what he(your H) thinks.?..Only you should, really..I dont mean that in a disrespectful way, but what makes him a recognized authority on this matter?

TFY

Oh for goodness sake. I was not speaking, or he was not speaking, for all of mankind unlike the OP was seemingly doing, or at least saying a significant subset thought that way. So as a man he was offering a counter opinion.

I never stated that because my husband says, x, and z, this means all men do 1, 2, or 3. Or that all men think x, y, and z. Why? Because my husband says so.

Sigh. Understand better now?

And darn skippy I have puppy dog feelings of love. I am blessed with an amazing husband and partner and I am humbled and appreciative beyond belief that I got this lucky. He is more than I ever dreamed love/marriage could be and I keep waiting to wake up and realize it is all a dream.

So yep, I will wear that badge with honor. I have been with him for almost 10 years and that just astounds me. Regardless of what happens tomorrow, I have been blessed far more than I ever deserved and I will never regret it. He is, a once in a lifetime, gift and I just hope that I make him feel even half of how he makes me feel. One thing I practice every day is make sure he knows how much he is appreciated, loved, respected, and awed.

Edited May 28, 2015 by Got it

May 28, 2015

for true equality women need to lift their own heavy objects and kill their own spiders

A truly clever wife CAN do those things, but allows her husband to do them for her because he needs to feel needed. Win - Win.

May 28, 2015

To me that isn't the issue. It is how many women are worthy of my love. I don't really care how accomplished or talented or amazing a woman might be if she can't be nice and respectful; if she feels entitled and wants to control my life. As I've said time and time again, I think many women have been brainwashed into disrespecting men at a core level. I wouldn't try to guess at percentages but I would say it is common; especially among women around my age and older. And I do see it in young women as well.

And I do think in part this results in precisely the situation you described - traditional expectations are placed on men but without any of the traditional benefits for men.

It was quite a moment when I realized that either my wife has total control over my sex life, or I have to get divorced or be a cheater. With that sort of balance in play, marriage is too risky to one's sex life to be considered. No marriage is worth living as a priest.

I completely agree. I think that women need to understand that, while we want to be loved by our husbands, our husbands really want to be RESPECTED by us.

I respect my husband more than i have ever respected any man, which is why I agreed to marry him. While we are both successful in our own right, in certain areas of our marriage, we are very traditional.

May 28, 2015

That's because at a fundamental level feminism was not about equality.

Feminism was about reaching equality.

One of the most quotable things I've read lately.

Marriage in the 50s "worked" because women had little choice. They made do. They took pills, drank too much, hid abuse, had illegal abortions, and dreamed of more. It was no nirvana for women, and that is why women worked so hard to change the culture.

Well that would explain the rapidly shrinking sales of antidepressants and alcohol since the 1950s then. Right?

May 28, 2015

And now, the men are steadily going MGTOW

We can only WISH the guys who are so bitter and angry would just "go their own way" and get on with their lives. Instead, they complain bitterly and fight and seem more engaged than ever.

"The Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW) movement is a weird offshoot of the men's rights movement resembling some kind of straight male separatism. Basically, MGTOWers buy into the same rhetoric MRAs spread ("society is actually biased against men, not women!" etc.), but instead of taking any sort of action, they have vowed to stay away from women altogether, or at least stop forming any sort of relationships with them. In other words, it's a hilarious analog to the lesbian separatism movement, but without homosexuality (they don't believe men should "become gay" as an element of further rebellion). It's unclear if the movement has any power beyond "disgruntled douchebags talking **** about women (in general) on the Internet." As a general rule, the reaction of sane people is 'Sure, do go your own way and stop whining already!'"

Men Going Their Own Way - RationalWiki

May 28, 2015

Feminism is about equality. Due to the gap in inequality the menz have to concede power to any sense of rebalance.

Where there are 10 seats at the board table held my men and three are to be held by women. That means three men are conceding a loss of power.

Egalitarianism is about equality. It pursues equality regardless of gender, race, sexual orientation ... etc.

Feminism is a vehicle for giving power to women ... only this.

I'm not arguing whether or not the power was needed or not [it was]; i am arguing what it does.

It's a function who's input can only be translated into power for women.

When feminism came to power [as a major lobby group], it was labeled by it's promoters as the 'equalizer', forgetting that it was the equalizer for one specific group of humans and up to a single point [where balance is achieved].

This is why feminism and feminist lobby group don't make it a point out of let's say ... pursue equal rights for LGBT, black ppl, semitic ppl.

PS: Pls pay attention because the difference is crucial.

This isn't about women dominating but about men having to give up something. Which understandably many don't like. Marriage has traditionally been used to enslave women. To say otherwise implies that prior to divorce laws that women have genuine choice around leaving. Not "they could leave if they wanted to" but a genuine alternative to being married.

It didn't exist in the 1950's.

One of the crucial things one should learn about law is that it is not just about rights, but also about responsabilities.

You cannot pick and choose what suits you.

Furthermore, you cannot really argue with biology, and with the fact that the vast majority of women do not like to lead at home or in the relationship.

They want to be consulted on decisions, to have an equal say, but they would prefer for the guy to make the decision.

They tend to be like the first mate on the boat, while the captain is the guy.

Equal rights also means equal responsabilities ufo. Having equal rights without equal responsabilities is simply entitlement.

So now we have equal rights [somewhat]; i'd like to see them dying in combat at the rates that men do, do the nasty works that men do, go into STEM careers at the rates that men do [without the affirmative action support], and generally be the ones who initiate dating, romance and even marriage at the rates men do.

Nowhere is it clearer that they don't want those things then on this board when the discussion turns to why don't women initiate dating, split the bill on dates, or why so many regret that you need 2 wages now just to ensure you don't end up poor.

Edited May 28, 2015 by Radu

May 28, 2015

We can only WISH the guys who are so bitter and angry would just "go their own way" and get on with their lives. Instead, they complain bitterly and fight and seem more engaged than ever.

"The Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW) movement is a weird offshoot of the men's rights movement resembling some kind of straight male separatism. Basically, MGTOWers buy into the same rhetoric MRAs spread ("society is actually biased against men, not women!" etc.), but instead of taking any sort of action, they have vowed to stay away from women altogether, or at least stop forming any sort of relationships with them. In other words, it's a hilarious analog to the lesbian separatism movement, but without homosexuality (they don't believe men should "become gay" as an element of further rebellion). It's unclear if the movement has any power beyond "disgruntled douchebags talking **** about women (in general) on the Internet." As a general rule, the reaction of sane people is 'Sure, do go your own way and stop whining already!'"
Men Going Their Own Way - RationalWiki

MGTOW is quite angry, and a sort of backlash ... but have you actually sat down and spoken to these guys ?

What turned them into wanting to put themselves as #1, take pleasure in the little things in life and generally build a life that simply removes a lot of the heart attack giving risks ?

If the above phrase was in relation to women, they would not be hounded to this extent, or be seen as the pathetic losers to this extent.

In 2015, can't we make a decision about our future without being belittled, and thought of as morons ?

On a sidenote, i chose to interpret MGTOW [and others too] as putting focus on improving one's own life.

PS: It's very easy to read propaganda on the web, and link to it ... try to read their forums too.

Maybe some of their horror stories and then maybe try to picture how they felt going through them.

When i did, i had some empathy for them.

May 28, 2015

We can only WISH the guys who are so bitter and angry would just "go their own way" and get on with their lives. Instead, they complain bitterly and fight and seem more engaged than ever.

"The Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW) movement is a weird offshoot of the men's rights movement resembling some kind of straight male separatism. Basically, MGTOWers buy into the same rhetoric MRAs spread ("society is actually biased against men, not women!" etc.), but instead of taking any sort of action, they have vowed to stay away from women altogether, or at least stop forming any sort of relationships with them. In other words, it's a hilarious analog to the lesbian separatism movement, but without homosexuality (they don't believe men should "become gay" as an element of further rebellion). It's unclear if the movement has any power beyond "disgruntled douchebags talking **** about women (in general) on the Internet." As a general rule, the reaction of sane people is 'Sure, do go your own way and stop whining already!'"
Men Going Their Own Way - RationalWiki

I identify as a MGTOW. I still have relationships with women, and have no desire to separate the sexes. For me, going my own way is choosing my own destiny and not conforming to societal expectations. I get to choose my own way.

I've been on the direct receiving end of some women's ire for opting out of marriage. I've been directly told to "man up and get married". To which, my response was a simple and direct "no".

That doesn't mean I don't enjoy female companionship, or that I even dislike women. I like women! They're soft, feminine, smell good, and can make wonderful companions. What I reject are the societal norms and expectations that I'm supposed to marry and sacrifice my life for a family unit. I did it once, and it was hell on earth. What's my invective to do it again?

For me, there are none.

I find your disdain quite amusing, for the simple fact that many men feel the same way about feminism. That's why I don't bother trying to convince women about our point of view. Men's problems are men's problems; they're ours to deal and solve as we please. I feel the same way about women's problems; I'm not a woman, so they're none of my business. They're your issues to solve on your own, and I accept no responsibility in solving them.

May 28, 2015

What turned them into wanting to put themselves as #1, take pleasure in the little things in life and generally build a life that simply removes a lot of the heart attack giving risks ?

Women who have these goals are said to be empowered. Men who have these goals are said to be pathetic whining wimps. That's equality. Sure it is.

May 28, 2015

Women who have these goals are said to be empowered. Men who have these goals are said to be pathetic whining wimps. That's equality. Sure it is.

Do not confuse equality of choice with equality of perception. Men and women can both make the same choices, regardless of the fact there is a dichotomy in how the choice is viewed depending upon who's making it.

One thing I had to learn was how to stop caring how my choices are perceived. Why should I care if many women view me as a "pathetic whiny wimp"? How does that change anything?

It doesn't.

The sooner you realize that, the sooner you can let it all go and simply enjoy your life. The feelings and perceptions of others simply do not matter. What does matter is how YOU perceive YOURSELF.

May 28, 2015

Do not confuse equality of choice with equality of perception. Men and women can both make the same choices, regardless of the fact there is a dichotomy in how the choice is viewed depending upon who's making it.

One thing I had to learn was how to stop caring how my choices are perceived. Why should I care if many women view me as a "pathetic whiny wimp"? How does that change anything?

It doesn't.

The sooner you realize that, the sooner you can let it all go and simply enjoy your life. The feelings and perceptions of others simply do not matter. What does matter is how YOU perceive YOURSELF.

Discovered that last millennium, and haven't looked back. Life is good.

May 28, 2015

A truly clever wife CAN do those things, but allows her husband to do them for her because he needs to feel needed. Win - Win.

While you and I seem to basically agree, this comment raises my hackles. Firstly, that is patronizing. To me this reads as: Just play helpless for the dumb man who is so easily fooled! And it is a typical attitude that I find among women that shows a fundamental disrespect. We aren't children.

Secondly, do you really need to make up reasons for him to feel needed? Don't you ACTUALLY need him? If so, why the need to pretend?

Edited May 28, 2015 by Robert Z

May 28, 2015

Feminism is about equality. Due to the gap in inequality the menz have to concede power to any sense of rebalance.

Where there are 10 seats at the board table held my men and three are to be held by women. That means three men are conceding a loss of power.

This isn't about women dominating but about men having to give up something. Which understandably many don't like. Marriage has traditionally been used to enslave women. To say otherwise implies that prior to divorce laws that women have genuine choice around leaving. Not "they could leave if they wanted to" but a genuine alternative to being married.

It didn't exist in the 1950's.

And the plot thickens. Lol

I seriously Wonder what planet you people live on.

May 28, 2015

Women are less happy nowadays despite 40 years of feminism, a new study claims. Despite having more opportunities than ever before, they have a lower sense of well-being and life satisfaction, it found. The study, The Paradox of Declining Female Happiness, said the same was true for women of different ages and whether or not they were married or had children.

Read more: Women have it all but are less happy than forty years ago... | Daily Mail Online

The original paper

The Paradox of Declining Female Happiness

Sign In

Marital Concepts from the 1950s

Recommended Posts

123321

123321

Got it

thefooloftheyear

toolforgrowth

Robert Z

Radu

Radu

ufo8mycat

truncated

xxoo

Got it

WasOtherWoman

WasOtherWoman

123321

lollipopspot

Radu

Radu

toolforgrowth

123321

toolforgrowth

123321

Robert Z

jay1983

Robert Z

What's New

My Activity Streams

More...