hotpotato Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Honestly, if a man were trying to bed me so fast I'd just leave. I'd never expect a fwb situation to turn into relationship. It can and does happen, I just wouldn't bet on it or use it as a strategy. Also, I don't think confidence alone gets girls. I say, if confidence is all it took, there would be plenty of 80 year old men with 18 year old women. If you friend is going out and meeting plenty of women, that alone increases his chances of finding a gf. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Camaro Guy Posted May 9, 2015 Author Share Posted May 9, 2015 Okay, cool. I wasn't sure if that's why you were a virgin or not. It might benefit you to meet up with other women who are virgins too. Both of you will be able to understand the other person's situation, and I think that'll help take the pressure off. Sex is line anything; you have to practice in order to get better at it. But I also don't think that it's a huge deal you're a virgin. Sex is awesome, but there's more to life than just sex. I guess what I'm trying to say is that sex isn't this big thing that people make it out to be. It's not a big deal if people do it, and it's not a big deal if people don't. But if you're going to do it, have fun with it! Try to find a partner who cares just as much for your pleasure as she does hers, and make sure you do the same. And sometimes things don't go the way you planned or hoped it would. Case in point, you may shoot your wad too soon, or she may fart on you (yes, that's happened to me. More than once!). But don't try to "sell yourself" dishonestly. Be authentic about who you are and what you're looking for. You'll attract much better quality mates that way. I am a virgin because I went to an all-male high school and I had no experience with girls. This cascaded into college until later in senior year when I found out that they weren't so bad. I really didn't start gaining any true confidence until I went to the gym. I'd imagine that sex is a pretty big deal considering that it's talked about so frequently and it's made out to separate the haves from the have nots. As a man, if you are a virgin, you will be degraded in modern society. A woman as well, but it only happens later on. Men are expected to be pursuers. Finding inexperienced girls... is not as easy as it seems. Even then, the ones that are inexperienced don't open up quickly or are in relationships. The type of girl I'm after is smart, has a great sense of self, good character, and is fun to be around. You just don't get those types of girls to come after you unless you contribute value in and out of the bedroom. Went to the bars yesterday, talked to 5 girls, struck out every time. I need to tighten up my "game". Wasn't terrible, just didn't get a number like I hoped to. I didn't close. I just need to be able to get experience, so that when a right girl comes along, I'll know it when I see it. And the best salesman is the honest one or the one who knows how to spin his negatives into a positive. Link to post Share on other sites
ascendotum Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 "As a man, if you can get sex, you can get a relationship" I'd agree with this. I've seen posts on her before that try to claim its not the case, that there is no co-relation. It tends to be the badboy/jerk threads, as in jerks/bullshyte artists/players can get girls to get laid but they wont get a relationship. For all the guys I know who did fairly well in terms of ONS/FWBs/flings, they had no problem finding women for relationships. Many guys will drop their standards for NSA not raise them, so its not like quite a few of those women are going to be thinking he is not worthwhile for more. Many of the women would have liked to keep seeing them. Sure some women will sleep with a guy that they consider hot but not good material for a bf, but numerous prospects that are a closer match still will. Sure many of his relationships might not last to longterm as the guy has has faults/issues but if the guy is attractive & charming enough for the girl to get on her knees for him after knowing him only a few hrs (assuming she is not plastered) then quite a few will be happy to keep seeing him and see where it leads. Of course if a guy struggles for numerous years and gets lucky and gets laid at a party with a drunk woman then he can't get carried away with himself that he's now jumped up in the leagues and women will now see him in a different light. If its boosts his confidence though it will certainly help create a snowball effect on better outcomes with women. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
GoodOnPaper Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Agree. We live in a culture where the degree to which a guy is considered a catch is all about how well he does with women at the initial attraction stage. ONS attraction always has the potential to extend to a relationship, but being the "relationship guy" and trying build a similar physical attraction intensity from that kind of foundation just doesn't work and it is a miserable existence -- you just never know what her real level of attraction to you is. Knowing that you have to get into a relationship just to have sex sets you up for all kinds of attraction imbalances and you are either being used or settling. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
AVarma Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 So yea, I know of many "man whores" and sorry, instead of it being a turn on to me - it's a turn off. A man ho doesn't mean he's good in bed. It means he's insecure and has to always trying to be hitting on women and/or trying to bed them cuz he has an endless need to "prove" himself. Not sexy to mua I'm not sure why they have to be mutually exclusive though. I know many manwhores who went on to get married and settle down. I don't see why you can't be both. Link to post Share on other sites
Mrlonelyone Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Your friend is 100% right about getting relationships. He is only 50% right about building a long lasting (decades long) stable relationship. You are 25 and still young, you don't need to really worry so much about long lasting and stable yet. Your friend is telling you to just have fun, have sex if you can get it, and if something pans out long term well that's good. If not, you still have billions of other women it could work with. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Camaro Guy Posted May 9, 2015 Author Share Posted May 9, 2015 What my friend told me after last night's lack of success is this: it's not your fault. Getting girls whether it comes down to a relationship or sex is their sexual availability. If you meet a girl's attractiveness threshold (it isn't hard), then it comes down to that. What that means is if a girl is DTF. No one is DTF all the time. However, by the very nature of testosterone, more men will be willing to have sex at any given time than a woman. Maybe she's in a bad mood. Maybe she just got out of a relationship. Maybe she's in a relationship. Maybe she's not feeling confident. Maybe she didn't shave. Maybe she doesn't feel like going to your place The list goes on. So many factors account for this. When you have your stuff together as a man this is usually what it comes down to. Maybe she will not have sex with you then but at a later time. I've seen this many times with friends, especially in college. It's just not your fault. Running into sexually available women is simply a matter of chance. He also told me that he probably has had sex with men that are not as physically attractive as you. That are shorter than you. That have all sorts of defects. She had sex with him because she was open to the possibility at that moment. If a male model approaches her and is rejected, it might not be his fault (considering he didn't flub the conversation). She simply was not sexually available at that moment. Knowing this has made all the difference. It truly IS a numbers game. That's why I'm willing to strike out. Honestly, if a man were trying to bed me so fast I'd just leave. I'd never expect a fwb situation to turn into relationship. It can and does happen, I just wouldn't bet on it or use it as a strategy. Also, I don't think confidence alone gets girls. I say, if confidence is all it took, there would be plenty of 80 year old men with 18 year old women. If you friend is going out and meeting plenty of women, that alone increases his chances of finding a gf. I'm not expecting a FWB to turn into a relationship. I would only use it to get experience. Link to post Share on other sites
calvincline47 Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Your friend is 100% right about getting relationships. He is only 50% right about building a long lasting (decades long) stable relationship. You are 25 and still young, you don't need to really worry so much about long lasting and stable yet. Your friend is telling you to just have fun, have sex if you can get it, and if something pans out long term well that's good. If not, you still have billions of other women it could work with. I actually disagree with his friend. I've found that women that put out easily are very bad long-term partners. Usually, they have some kind of personality disorder. Of course, the ability to get women into bed will never hurt a guy. However, most of the successful marriages that I've seen consisted of a guy that wasn't particularly skilled with women courting an intelligent, attractive woman. They didn't start with hookups. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 I would only use it her to get experience. There, fixed that for ya 3 Link to post Share on other sites
bachdude Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 This is what my friend said. He said it's not a hard and fast rule but he did say that if women find you sexually desirable enough to enter into a sexual encounter with you, some other woman would find you desirable enough to get into a relationship with you, considering you have everything together. He said it's better to err on the side of being a "man whore" than being a guy who has no sex. Most men never achieve this distinction, so he says to "shoot for the stars". He's had a good amount of relationships start on a sexual basis purely. He's also a pretty experienced guy. He says that I need to start looking for sex first, then get a relationship if I choose. Apparently, the best route to go is a friends with benefits relationship if I can get it, which I thought. He then said I'm a nice guy, ideal for a relationship. However, my lack of experience with women and the fact that I'm a virgin at almost 25 years old would be a turn off. Especially to the type of women that I'm trying to meet. It's a fact I'm well aware of. I know that I need to be more sexually aggressive and fearless and closing women. This will be hard to do considering I have no experience but everyone had to start somewhere. I consider myself a salesman. I'm selling and pitching a package. Not everyone will want it but for those that are interested, I need to close the deal. The average salesman's success rate is around 5-10%. I know with girls it will be less than that. I need to be prepared for that. Getting experience with girls is a prime reason to do this. We're hitting the bars tonight, so I'll see what happens. Guys, how you do feel about this? Has this been true in your case? OK, as I am reading this, it sounds like you are really, ultimately interested in finding a relationship with a woman, not just a one night stand. This sounds like the basis for your friends advise, to get practice getting women in bed and this will ultimately lead to a relationship.... No? This is a lot of crap, if that is what he means. Picking up women to use them for your own confidence and to buck up on your experience is horrible practice for a relationship. And it might really back fire on you! You can practice your confidence by just approaching women, striking up and holding an interesting conversation with them, asking them out on a date, holding their interest so they want to go on a second date with you, getting them to laugh, etc, etc, etc... It's more of an art anyway to win a women's genuine affection and heart than trying to be a Don Juan. Once a woman has fallen in love with you the rest (sexually speaking) usually follows and she will be patient with your lack of experience. These women in clubs are not the best sexual partners for you, man! They aren't going to be patient, kind, or understanding. Not to be overly graphic, but once it gets going, and if the guy is inexperienced or out of practice, well, it can be over in a flash, and it is very possible the girl you picked up may not be so nice about it. Just a thought. Dude, just get a girlfriend. Work on that aspect. If it's a relationship you want, then practice the skills needed for that. Let the rest follow out of it. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
No Limit Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Well, good luck. May I ask, what are your goals in a relationship? You might want to be careful to start something serious with a girl that will open her legs the moment someone buys her a drink... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Revolver Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Lots of modern relationships start as hookups Link to post Share on other sites
Author Camaro Guy Posted May 10, 2015 Author Share Posted May 10, 2015 (edited) Guys, he is not saying that it always leads to a relationship. He's saying that the guys less familiar with women lose out. He's right. I would also never tell a hookup that I've never done it before. I just do it and never see her again. I would also not plan on getting a "club girl". I would just get to where I have to be. Edited May 10, 2015 by Camaro Guy Link to post Share on other sites
Author Camaro Guy Posted May 10, 2015 Author Share Posted May 10, 2015 There, fixed that for ya No, I would use the experience to get more experience to where I want to be. To a point where I'd be sexually confident and competent. I wouldn't be using her. If anything, I'd thank her profusely for being awesome. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Gloria25 Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 No, I would use the experience to get more experience to where I want to be. To a point where I'd be sexually confident and competent. I wouldn't be using her. If anything, I'd thank her profusely for being awesome. You know, I gained a lot of experience with my 6 year guy...so, for me "quantity" of people you bed does not necessarily equate "quality"... I remember when, for the first time, a guy went down on me - him...I was nervous as heck and he just was like "relax"... It was nice to be able to relax and trust someone who was experienced and where I felt comfy to learn about kissing, positions, etc. Now that I'm the experienced one, at times it actually turns me on to know that I'm the one that now has her "bag of magic trix" to "wow" an object of my affection. :bunny: I fantasize about that sometimes with a particular someone ...I imagine what it would be like for me to seduce him, break him in, and bring out the animal in him...A combo of a tender "teacher" to him, but at the same time "dressed in sexy black lingerie/heels" vixen who "corrupts" him too... Like Madonna in "Erotica".... my impact is like he's being hit by a truck, and I'll teach him how to.... Ummm....to just imagine the look on his face of being "taken advantage of", then a "switch" into him wanting to take me... Boy, I am a dirrty girl!!! 2 Link to post Share on other sites
I_Give_Up67 Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 You know, I gained a lot of experience with my 6 year guy...so, for me "quantity" of people you bed does not necessarily equate "quality"... I remember when, for the first time, a guy went down on me - him...I was nervous as heck and he just was like "relax"... It was nice to be able to relax and trust someone who was experienced and where I felt comfy to learn about kissing, positions, etc. Now that I'm the experienced one, at times it actually turns me on to know that I'm the one that now has her "bag of magic trix" to "wow" an object of my affection. :bunny: I fantasize about that sometimes with a particular someone ...I imagine what it would be like for me to seduce him, break him in, and bring out the animal in him...A combo of a tender "teacher" to him, but at the same time "dressed in sexy black lingerie/heels" vixen who "corrupts" him too... Like Madonna in "Erotica".... my impact is like he's being hit by a truck, and I'll teach him how to.... Ummm....to just imagine the look on his face of being "taken advantage of", then a "switch" into him wanting to take me... Boy, I am a dirrty girl!!! Cold shower time for me now... thanks Gloria;) Guess I've got some work to do on both getting the sex and the relationship. Link to post Share on other sites
sarah_prl Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 (edited) Oh boy... Ok, I get the "confidence" part, I do. I really do. "if women find you sexually desirable enough to enter into a sexual encounter with you, some other woman would find you desirable enough to get into a relationship with you" SOME WOMEN, yeah. Just... It's all REALLY subjective... But one thing's for sure: A woman won't "find you desirable enough to get into a relationship with you", just because/only if, you've had sexual encounters with other women... That's granted. "He's also a pretty experienced guy." I agree with Gloria. Quantity is not quality. Specially if we talk about ONS. The guy doesn't have time to learn anything at all. Only a woman who he's been with several times, and who is comfortable with him, will teach him what he needs to know... Experienced does not = multiple partners. "He says that I need to start looking for sex first, then get a relationship if I choose." Not sure that's such a good idea... He then said I'm a nice guy, ideal for a relationship. However, my lack of experience with women and the fact that I'm a virgin at almost 25 years old would be a turn off. Especially to the type of women that I'm trying to meet. It's a fact I'm well aware of. If you're "ideal for a relationship" why not go after one?! "would be a turn off" What does he know? He's talking about something he knows nothing about, frankly. So talk to someone who does. "We're hitting the bars tonight" Has it occurred to you you might be looking in the wrong places? I mean, I get it that you're out looking, good for you, I respect that, get out there, you do have to try and start somewhere. ...I guess I probably wouldn't give you my number either (well I wouldn't give my number to anyone, I'd give my e-mail or something, but that's beside the point)... Ah the clubbing scene... I dunno... But some girls do go to bars to chill with their friends, or to just dance, you know? Not everyone there is hunting. But I'd much more likely engage in a conversation at a music festival, or film festival, or a gathering with mutual friends, or work, or school... But maybe you don't have any friends who have friends who are available, maybe you don't meet people anywhere... But still, are you sure you want to pick up some random chick at a bar and screw her? Plus you do know what can happen, right? You go and get ready for it, you lie about being a virgin, or hide it, it goes really terribly, and your confidence goes to sh**. You are aware of your lack of experience now. But you are willing to get out there, and to then learn. You do have some confidence now. So why not use it to chat up some girl you do find interesting? Who does find you interesting? She will go out with you. And when sex comes, she won't care about that. She may even be positively surprised, and she may even think "oh he's brand new I can teach him everything the way I want!" Let me tell you something: I regret not having told my second partner I had only had one before him. I only told him later on. The sex wasn't the problem at all, it was great. But I came to regret not having told him I was "inexperienced" for my age and made him understand how I didn't want to rush things. Now let me tell you about virginity... I know plenty of "late-virgins", and for a variety of reasons. The first one being me. It just did not happen. I didn't meet anyone you know? Just didn't happen. Then I met him, and we talked, and we went on a couple dates, and we kissed, and he became my boyfriend, and then we naturally started making out, and eventually I told him I was a virgin, and eventually we had sex. The second one was a girl who didn't have a boyfriend until she was... 18 I believe. I don't know why it didn't happen for her, she didn't have half the issues I had, like self-image issues, but it didn't, and being in a small school for even longer than me probably helped, so she only met someone in college. Guess what? He was also a virgin. 19. If I remember correctly, not only was he a virgin, he also had never had a girlfriend before, and, when she found out, she apparently was upset that he didn't tell her before. And they both stayed virgins for a veeery long time. The third one, is a 25 year old girl that still isn't sexually active and won't be anytime soon, but for religious reasons as well as deeply personal reasons. Apparently she just found a guy who thinks exactly the same way, and hasn't even kissed anyone yet (she has, several guys). Whom is also 25 or 26. I know a 25 year old girl who's dating long-term a 27 year old guy, who, before her, was pretty much a virgin. She recently told me this. She had had several boyfriends and partners before him. But not him. But, when he was 20 something and still a virgin, a bad friend, who went to hookers, managed to take him. So he ended up having two sort-of-almost-something experiences. When he later told her this, she was a little grossed out and shocked. She would surely have accepted him a virgin (he was just as inexperienced as a total virgin, really), despite being more experienced and a fairly sexual and libidinous person. She also commented with me that it's good that he didn't have experience and she can tell him exactly what she likes when he goes down on her, because - her words - a lot of guys come already full of habits. I know a 27 year old girl who is a virgin, because she really hasn't found the opportunity yet. And I know other people who are probably still virgins too, thou I don't know for sure. I will also leave you with this video https://youtu.be/Moa5iyahZB4?t=4m30s It does not have to be the perfect girl. But it does not have to be a random one either. And you don't have to rush, and you don't have to force it, and you don't have to just get the hell away from your virginity get rid of it like it's a damned curse, and something to be ashamed and angry about. Specially with the person you want to be with. Yes, sex is great. But it's also not a big deal if it doesn't happen. And I don't want to hear that whole "it's different for a man". (And I gave you two examples of men above.) Yeah, it is different. But it's also just as perfectly fine. "Men are expected to be pursuers." So pursue. Pursue women, ask them out if they interest you. But most of all, work on yourself. Yourself as a person, yourself as a man. Work on getting your life together, and doing what you want with it, being who you want to be, getting what you want from life, in all the hundred other aspects there are to life. (That will also turn women on.) Go out, do stuff. And you'll meet people. And girls will come. And sex will come. You went to an all-male high school. You didn't meet many girls for the majority of your life. You have a perfectly "valid reason", not that you need one, to be a virgin. And everyone gets that. "The type of girl I'm after is smart, has a great sense of self, good character, and is fun to be around. You just don't get those types of girls to come after you unless you contribute value in and out of the bedroom." And that type of girl won't be into you just because you're sexually experienced... And "contributing value" in the bedroom also has little to do with how many different women you have seen naked... And they won't know said "value" until they bed you, so, what, are you wishing to build a reputation? And you could be here telling us "I want to GET LAID. DESPERATELY." And we'd all say "Go for it!" Maybe pay for it... But you're not. You're telling us "I want to have sex so I can get more experience and confidence and find a relationship"... (In your own words, you are "after a girl", not after a f***, not trying to hunt down a random prey.) And what I have to say to you, is that there is a better path for you... "I just need to be able to get experience, so that when a right girl comes along, I'll know it when I see it." That is not the kind of experience that will make you see when the right girl comes along... Edited May 10, 2015 by sarah_prl Link to post Share on other sites
Popsicle Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 (edited) Considering that most women will want a relationship if she has sex with you, then yes I'd say it's true. Edited May 10, 2015 by Popsicle Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Thank you, Jesus, for allowing me to be born in the 60's.... I am discovering that A)I have no frame of reference for this modern "sex is disposable" attitude and B) I am thankful that my own daughter must have an "old soul" I still, because I am a fuddy duddy, don't think "Hey! I've seen 249 guys' penises" is something to be real proud of..... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Camaro Guy Posted May 10, 2015 Author Share Posted May 10, 2015 (edited) Overall, I'd say that I feel that having sex with a woman is the last piece of the puzzle missing from feeling fully masculine. I've built the body. I know the stuff men are taught by dads (car anatomy, etc), but not this. Speaking of dad, I asked him how he met mom. He said he just went for it and hoped for the best. He had no tricks or anything, yet he was a rake in his day. That's why I feel it is so important to connect to a woman sexually before anything else. I don't necessarily mean PIV sex. I mean knowing that there is something deeper at work. If you don't, you might as well be friends. Once I figure this out, it will be a huge weight off of my shoulders and consciousness. I know time is ticking everyday. At the same time, it makes me demoralized to try to pursue with women because I'm already so far behind. Edited May 10, 2015 by Camaro Guy Link to post Share on other sites
StanMusial Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Your friend is right. Especially these days. If a girl doesn't like the idea of having sex with you then she's not going to want a relationship with you. Not in the bf/gf sense anyway. Link to post Share on other sites
BronzeAgeJaeger217 Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 I believe it is true, because I think the game, work involved to get casual sex, a one-night stand is very similar to getting a date, a relationship Link to post Share on other sites
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