Sex deprivation- is it an abuse ?

[Els]

You have got to be kidding me - such flagrant misuse of the term 'abuse'. No, obviously your wife not wanting to have sex with you isn't 'abuse'. It also isn't 'abuse' if your partner isn't interested in a lot of other things that many people consider essential in a happy R - cuddling, having dinner together, going out on dates, doing things that show they care, etc. Many of us wouldn't even consider being in a R in which our partner had zero interest in any of the above - and we would be absolutely within our rights to choose not to stay if that was important to us and our partner didn't want to work on the issue.

 

So, since sex is important to you and your partner refuses to work on the issue with you, consider leaving. Something doesn't have to be termed 'abuse' for you to be able to leave due to it.

Edited May 19, 2015 by Elswyth

[Rejected Rosebud]

Like I said, I'm happy for those of you who never felt like freaks or unattractive worthless carp because the person who promised to love you wouldn't touch you. If only I had been enlightened enough to realise it was no big deal. Silly victim me....

I'm sorry you have been so hurt but I didn't say I have never felt like a freak or a carp or something, I just said that I don't believe that if my guy refused to have sex with me anymore that I would be a VICTIM. I would NOT be for sure. Though I would be miserable and heartbroken. and lose all my self esteem for a while.

[Rejected Rosebud]

If I were a man, I'd almost make a woman sign a libido contract before we married. I'm not kidding.

You are a woman who had a man who wouldn't have sex with you so why don't you have men you date sign one?? I mean why is this a man thing?? But srsly how could anyone even imagine such a thing, nobody is in control of their sex drive or of all the things that happen in relationships that can make intimacy pretty much impossible for either of the people!!!

[dreamingoftigers]

Anyone who doesn't see this as a form of abuse should trying going without sex for ten years. It left me holding a gun to my head and doing my best to pull the trigger.

 

Were it not for prostitutes, I would be dead by now. It kills a man from the inside out. But it happens slowly and almost imperceptibly as the will to live slips away. It is death a thousand cuts. By the time I should have known to end it, I was almost too far gone to help myself. The will to live was gone.

 

It's true. especially when they start telling you "its because of X" so you do X. They they say, "I really meant Y."

 

Eventually you realize that they just don't love you. Not really. They just are either too scared to leave or just feel comfortable with the background noise of you trying to get their attention in some way.

[dreamingoftigers]

yeh I just googled that and read it, it's listed under "sexual violence" which is really offensive to me since I know what violent sexual violence is and it is not in the same category as that.

 

The same as getting an unwanted smack on the bottom is abusive and can be humiliating, as can a black eye be physically abusive and even more humiliating. YOU might not consider it to be the same category. That doesn't make it universal, nor is anyone competing to be the biggest, most sexually victimized person ever so far. It's a form of abuse. It doesn't mean it is the tip-top grand form of abuse. Does that really matter?

 

I do NOT agree and also who is determining whether the withholder is doing it as "passive aggressive control" or they just don't feel like having sex, or are just a self centered jerk??

 

Who decides though if she or he is trying to control the other person or is just not interested in sex, or maybe not attracted to that person sexually, or just doesn't give a crap about fulfilling their needs??:confused:

 

I would say, that when you are MARRIED and the one person goes weeks and months without even truly acknowledging their partner's need for intimacy, that's where the line gets crossed. The expectation is for a loyal partner, without even considering the partner's well-being. That's not okay. If they simply "aren't attracted anymore" it's time to let your spouse go. You don't just keep someone around "in storage" pining away for a relationship with intimacy because "ya just don't give a ****" anymore.

 

yeh but none of it even comes close to "my wife won't have sex with me". I also don't argue with you that you were the "victim" of a hoax or bait and switch or whatever but I also know what REALLY happens in alot of relationships. Somebody changes, somebody loses interest or ability to maintain and sustain a healthy relationship so they fall back into bad selfish or whatever habits that they were suppressing in the beginning. I know, I did it myself, I was not baiting and switching, my weakness just got the better of me for a time, lucky for me I owned it and addressed it but almost lost everything, But I swear I had no INTENTION of tricking my dear love. I was just a big f***up.

 

Really people getting complacent lazy and selfish happens all the time

 

I would be so glad to just hand over fault to "complacent and lazy" but in my case, it is so beyond the pale and ripe with dysfunction, that it goes far far far beyond complacent and lazy.

 

I actually believe that my husband gets off on cheating behind my back and somewhat rubbing it in my face without saying so. It's really sick. And totally not what I signed up for. If he had put 10% of what he put into screwing us over into getting real help and actually trying instead of being a lying, ****ed-up addict, our marriage would be healthy. And our daughter would have a Dad.

[dreamingoftigers]

I'm sorry you have been so hurt but I didn't say I have never felt like a freak or a carp or something, I just said that I don't believe that if my guy refused to have sex with me anymore that I would be a VICTIM. I would NOT be for sure. Though I would be miserable and heartbroken. and lose all my self esteem for a while.

 

Wouldn't that be enough harm.

 

Jeez.

 

And trying to divorce is real fun too. With kids, and a home/car/assets/family.

 

All because your partner wouldn't put out.

 

You get to sit there wondering what the Hell is so wrong or ugly with you that your own spouse won't touch you and doesn't have a problem with that. Then you get to sit there and go back and forth for years wondering if you should even divorce because of it. Will it get better? Have I done enough?

[dreamingoftigers]

Not in the same category as violence? Alright. But it was a form of torture. And it sucks the life right out of you. That some members refuse to accept that probably isn't surprising if they were the deniers. The truth hurts!

 

I see the dead men walking all around. I know the toll that it takes. I can see it in their eyes. They are just waiting to die, like I was.

 

 

And I always find it particularly amusing when women argue with men about how men feel about sex! Gee, that's not a clue to run for your life on a date, is it?

 

Honestly Robert, it isn't just men.

 

But women can't talk about it because the first things we think is that it MUST BE our fault. It isn't "accepted" that a woman can't get sex from her husband.

 

But I know other women in real life that have trouble with it too.

 

And it is very crushing.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if in half of all abusive relationships, sex is withheld.

[Taramere]

Like I said, I'm happy for those of you who never felt like freaks or unattractive worthless carp because the person who promised to love you wouldn't touch you. If only I had been enlightened enough to realise it was no big deal. Silly victim me....

 

It's not a case of never having felt like crap, or unattractive because somebody didn't want you any more. Or thinking "it's no big deal." Of course it's horrible to feel that way. LS exists in part because the loss of love is so painful and people often need help to deal with it.

 

However, people are arguing that somebody no longer being sufficiently attracted to you to want to sleep with you is not abuse. Not in itself. If they say things like "you make me sick to look at you" or "nobody will ever love you" then that would certainly be abusive....and the sexual rejection would more than likely be a deliberately cruel act. No longer being sexually attracted to you, and avoiding intimacy as a result, is not abuse in itself however. It's cowardly. It avoids a difficult issue. Not speaking up about the problem is conflict avoidant - and at the root of all those things is probably, ironically, a desire to avoid hurting the person with the difficult truth of "I'm no longer attracted to you."

 

Of course it hurts, and probably most people here have felt it at some point. That's part of the reason LS exists. Because the loss of love hurts and the hit your self esteem takes is something people struggle to manage. But the way to deal with those feelings is, surely to God, not to portray oneself as an abuse victim.

 

A person becomes their own victim when they refer to themselves as worthless. Or to hurt themselves, over another person's rejection. Then, when theyn claim "he/she made me do it. He/she made me feel unlovable/unattractive by not wanting to sleep with me. He/she is an abuser" that's self victimisation taken up to the level of emotional blackmail. Which is highly abusive and manipulative.

 

When you choose to beat yourself up with horrible phrases, or by attributing to other people cruel or callous thoughts and motives that they didn't express...well, that's up to you. Perhaps there are people you know who that kind of thing works on. Who can be manipulated into expressing guilt, or agreeing with you, or doing what you want whatever else, by you putting these horrible spins on what they say. I think most of us here are a bit more wise to that sort of behaviour, though.

Edited May 19, 2015 by Taramere

[dreamingoftigers]

It's not a case of never having felt like crap, or unattractive because somebody didn't want you any more. Or thinking "it's no big deal." Of course it's horrible to feel that way. LS exists in part because the loss of love is so painful and people often need help to deal with it.

 

However, people are arguing that somebody no longer being sufficiently attracted to you to want to sleep with you is not abuse. Not in itself. If they say things like "you make me sick to look at you" or "nobody will ever love you" then that would certainly be abusive....and the sexual rejection would more than likely be a deliberately cruel act. No longer being sexually attracted to you, and avoiding intimacy as a result, is not abuse in itself however. It's cowardly. It avoids a difficult issue. It's conflict avoidant - and at the root of all those things is probably, ironically, a desire to avoid hurting the person with the difficult truth of "I'm no longer attracted to you."

 

Of course it hurts, and probably most people here have felt it at some point. That's part of the reason LS exists. Because the loss of love hurts and the hit your self esteem takes is something people struggle to manage. But the way to deal with those feelings is, surely to God, not to portray oneself as an abuse victim.

 

Robert talks repeatedly of getting to a stage where he wanted to blow his brains out. You describe yourself as "unattractive worthless carp". Both of you blame your exes for this. Both of you are responsible for abusing yourselves with threats of self harm or abusive phrases and words like "worthless".

 

To hurt yourself, or threaten to hurt yourself, over another person's rejection and then claim "he/she made me do it. He/she made me feel unlovable/unattractive by not wanting to sleep with me. He/she is an abuser" is the ultimate in self pity taken to a level of emotional blackmail. Which is highly abusive and manipulative.

 

When you choose to beat yourself up with horrible phrases, or by attributing to other people cruel or callous thoughts and motives that they didn't express...well, that's up to you. Perhaps there are people you know who that kind of thing works on. I think most of us here are a bit more wise to that sort of behaviour, though.

 

It isn't about manipulating anyone else.

 

I'm actually quite surprised you are reading it this way.

 

When we enter into a marriage where the pther party makes an agreement, backs out without telling us and then dangles intimacy on a string in front of us for years, letting us know that it is something we lack that we try to make up for..... all for nothing at all, even the basic acknowledgement that part of why we got married was to have a monogamous sexual relationship....that is nothing short of manipulative and frankly disgusting.

 

It is a very sensically assumed portion of marriage that there will be sex. And if there isn't sex, that at the very least we wouldn't be lied to about it. Or that we could work together to compromise OR that there would be an understanding reached OR we end the agreement.

 

That isn't the way these people operate.

 

And to be totally frank, this thread isn't addressing the "not in the mood so tired tonight Honeys." It's addressing the spouses that use sex as a means of control within a relationship.

 

Much like the way some folks use finances or influence over children to overpower their spouses.

 

That's not an easy solve when one person holds all of the power.

And it's painful to realize that you are married to someone like that, but by then you are often so worn down that life feels very grey indeed.

 

It isn't just about "the sex."

 

In fact I think I heard it phrased best, "everything is about sex, except sex, that's about power."

 

If we had considerate spouses otherwise, we wouldn't be on this thread trying to explain to others what is so excruciatingly painfully obvious to us.

 

And we obviously put quite a bit into our relationships and intimacy, or it wouldn't have affected us so deeply.

 

It behooves me that someone can understand how cutting words can be, but not see how personally shaken one can be from the blatant, personal physical rejection of one's own spouse.

[dreamingoftigers]

It's not a case of never having felt like crap, or unattractive because somebody didn't want you any more. Or thinking "it's no big deal." Of course it's horrible to feel that way. LS exists in part because the loss of love is so painful and people often need help to deal with it.

 

However, people are arguing that somebody no longer being sufficiently attracted to you to want to sleep with you is not abuse. Not in itself. If they say things like "you make me sick to look at you" or "nobody will ever love you" then that would certainly be abusive....and the sexual rejection would more than likely be a deliberately cruel act. No longer being sexually attracted to you, and avoiding intimacy as a result, is not abuse in itself however. It's cowardly. It avoids a difficult issue. Not speaking up about the problem is conflict avoidant - and at the root of all those things is probably, ironically, a desire to avoid hurting the person with the difficult truth of "I'm no longer attracted to you."

 

Of course it hurts, and probably most people here have felt it at some point. That's part of the reason LS exists. Because the loss of love hurts and the hit your self esteem takes is something people struggle to manage. But the way to deal with those feelings is, surely to God, not to portray oneself as an abuse victim.

 

A person becomes their own victim when they refer to themselves as worthless. Or to hurt themselves, over another person's rejection. Then, when theyn claim "he/she made me do it. He/she made me feel unlovable/unattractive by not wanting to sleep with me. He/she is an abuser" that's self victimisation taken up to the level of emotional blackmail. Which is highly abusive and manipulative.

 

When you choose to beat yourself up with horrible phrases, or by attributing to other people cruel or callous thoughts and motives that they didn't express...well, that's up to you. Perhaps there are people you know who that kind of thing works on. Who can be manipulated into expressing guilt, or agreeing with you, or doing what you want whatever else, by you putting these horrible spins on what they say. I think most of us here are a bit more wise to that sort of behaviour, though.

Furthermore, what both autumnight and Robert have described are points at the end of their relationships.

 

Not just a couple of nights in a row of getting turned down or turned away.

 

We're talking about rather systemic rejection and how it wears you down over time.

 

I mean Robert sounds quite dramatic for sure. But overall I get his point. Way past his limit. And I totally get that.

 

I wouldn't have gotten it unless I went through it myself though.

 

I wouldn't have understood the emotional and psychological toll it takes on you.

 

To be quite frank, I consider myself quite grounded sexually. High-libido yes. But I waited four years until I met my husband after a previous sexual relationship dissolved. I was even engaged in between and we did not have sex (religious).

 

At this point, my husband and I have been together for ten years. Seemingly separated now, but who the Hell can tell.

 

I think about stepping out all of the time now. It is hard for me to hold back even, knowing all of the affection and sex out there.

 

I even feel like putting an ad up just to cuddle with someone. But truth be told, I would probably end up sleeping with them just because the well has been so dry for so long. Just to feel like I am even capable and the parts haven't broken down yet. It wears heavily.

[ColdandLonelyinAK]

I wouldn't say it's an abuse as much as torture for the person on the receiving end of it. It can make you question your desirability, the status of your relationship and perhaps if your partner is having an affair. That in itself can be a tremendous mindf*** and screw with someone's mind.

[Phoenician]

Elsewth ,

 

I am not sure about your current status , experience in life and your Libido ; but what I can tell you is that for me at least that being deprived sexually from a partner is really a very very bad feeling ; I am not sure if I mmentioned it in this thread :

 

I have been in wars , survived financial issues once , survived a brain tumor ; yet the pain involved in being deprived is more abusing to me .

 

it only happens if one is HD , it deprives from sleeping , thinking normally ...

 

Rebert , atumn ...

 

you know what I am talking about .

 

one important thing is that it can happen both ways , I know women who are deprived sexually and living this **** ...

 

 

dreamingoftigers, is your husband a jerk ? or a good man unable to perform ?

 

you mentioned some religious issue , do you mean he lent for sex ?

 

One imp thing is that sex deprivation makes us vulnerable , I am not giving a free pass to cheating , but after 17 years I tried myself to cheat , and failed ...

 

but yes , now I am a vulnerable person , and to be at least honest to myself ; if I encounter a women who could give me what I need , not only sex , I will be very vulnerable ...

 

 

Though my experience is a failure up to now ; I still advise that when the partner is not a creepy person ; things could be tried , and if the partner is not selfish , he/she might improve .

 

the decision of accepting a partial solution is realtive , for me my formula is very simple , if she satisfy my needs very few times per month , i am fine ; i want also oral badly , not very often , but since i never had it before in 17 years !, I feel vanilla is not really sufficient ...

 

 

my wife was very exited when we had sex before , once she is turned on she would orgasm may be 5-6 times , I do everything for her ; the main issue in my case is that she can go a hell weeks and month without it ...

 

she is selfish , lazy ; she doesn't accept that i just stop giving more than I can give in terms of services / goods .

 

like one time I refused to buy a treadmill (gently) , she punished me a month ....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Taramere]

Furthermore, what both autumnight and Robert have described are points at the end of their relationships.

 

Not just a couple of nights in a row of getting turned down or turned away.

 

We're talking about rather systemic rejection and how it wears you down over time.

 

I mean Robert sounds quite dramatic for sure. But overall I get his point. Way past his limit. And I totally get that.

 

I wouldn't have gotten it unless I went through it myself though.

 

I wouldn't have understood the emotional and psychological toll it takes on you.

 

The problem here seems to be that when people argue "not having sex with a person is not, in itself, a form of abuse" people hear "it's not that bad. It shouldn't hurt as much as you say it hurts."

 

I really don't think anybody's arguing that it's a bad feeling to be rejected sexually - or a sign of a dying/dead relationship. Guys often start threads on here talking about how terrible they feel because they can't find a woman to sleep with them. Of course these are horrible feelings, which are hard to manage. That one feels terrible about something doesn't automatically mean that somebody else can or should be identified as their abuser.

 

I've no doubt that there are people who use sex as a weapon and a bargaining chip. Some might do it because they're poor at communication and negotiating, and therefore resort to manipulation because they don't know how else to get their needs met. Others might do it because they're control freaks. I've seen PUA boards where men talk about "training" women to behave in certain ways by using withdrawal of affection. I think that's a sign of a person who isn't very competent at communicating and negotiating with other people, rather than perceiving it as the actions of a powerful man who is abusing his power...but I suppose if somebody feels abused by it, then they're entitled to those feelings.

 

I wrote a long spiel, but I deleted a lot of it because ultimately it's just more of my opinion and I'm not going to keep forcing it on people. At the end of the day, if people choose to apply the label of abuser to a partner because that partner no longer wants or is prepared to be intimate with them - and if all they're asking is that a sympathetic counsellor agree with them that they're a victim, they'll likely get it.

 

I just don't know how helpful that is to people once they leave the counselling room. I suppose they might be able to use the counsellor's "victim/abuser" diagnosis as something to control or "fix" their partner with...but I doubt many people would stick around very long in a scenario where they'd been labelled as an abuser. Once that diagnosis has been made, I should think any chance of improving the situation has been killed off....even if the couple choose to remain together in that endlessly unhappy dynamic,

Edited May 19, 2015 by Taramere

[Els]

Elsewth ,

 

I am not sure about your current status , experience in life and your Libido ; but what I can tell you is that for me at least that being deprived sexually from a partner is really a very very bad feeling ; I am not sure if I mmentioned it in this thread :

 

I have been in wars , survived financial issues once , survived a brain tumor ; yet the pain involved in being deprived is more abusing to me .

 

it only happens if one is HD , it deprives from sleeping , thinking normally ...

 

If it is that bad then you need to leave. If you're staying because of your children, don't. You do your children no favours by staying in a miserable marriage that is, quote yourself, worse than having a brain tumour.

 

For the record, I had an ex who wasn't interested in anything sexual, either. I wasn't abused. But I sure as hell got up and left.

[autumnnight]

You are a woman who had a man who wouldn't have sex with you so why don't you have men you date sign one?? I mean why is this a man thing?? But srsly how could anyone even imagine such a thing, nobody is in control of their sex drive or of all the things that happen in relationships that can make intimacy pretty much impossible for either of the people!!!

 

Because it's usually women who are defending the right to deprive, who lick apart the starving spouse to find out why it's THEIR fault they are not getting sexual intimacy, and having downright insensitive bossy fits any time those of us who have been there step on their toes.

 

And you better believe I won't be marrying a man who doesn't have a high esteem of that most intimate physical act.

 

And BTW, since withholding sex is not abuse, though it IS often a hurtful betrayal...then I assume cheating is not abuse either.

[serial muse]

Because it's usually women who are defending the right to deprive, who lick apart the starving spouse to find out why it's THEIR fault they are not getting sexual intimacy, and having downright insensitive bossy fits any time those of us who have been there step on their toes.

 

This isn't true, at all. Not at all. On LS, whenever a woman complains about the lack of intimacy in her relationship, a large phalanx of dudes tends to sweep in and ask her how much weight she gained. That's the only reason they can possibly imagine for such a situation - and it's obviously her own fault for turning off her man.

[Michelle ma Belle]

If it is that bad then you need to leave. If you're staying because of your children, don't. You do your children no favours by staying in a miserable marriage that is, quote yourself, worse than having a brain tumour.

 

For the record, I had an ex who wasn't interested in anything sexual, either. I wasn't abused. But I sure as hell got up and left.

 

I concur.

 

You always have a choice in the matter whether you want to believe that or not.

[Erised]

Not having sex because one isn't in the mood is not abuse.

 

Not having sex as a control issue ir to hurt or punish your spouse is abuse.

 

Men do it to women just as women do it to men, though. Been there.

[autumnnight]

Not having sex because one isn't in the mood is not abuse.

 

Not having sex as a control issue ir to hurt or punish your spouse is abuse.

 

Men do it to women just as women do it to men, though. Been there.

 

Pretty much. Not sure why that's so threatening.

[Rejected Rosebud]

Wouldn't that be enough harm.

 

Yes it would be terrible harm of the deepest and most serious kind but I still don't think it makes a person a victim. So many people are on here because we have been seriously hurt and betrayed and heartbroken but I really think that few of us are victims and a lot of us made choices to be in those situations like the OP IMO. His wife might be the most wretched creature ever but his choice to be with her!!

[Rejected Rosebud]

The problem with this, Robert, is that those who do not see it as abuse do ot typically believe sex is all that important. They are the ones who typically assume it's the starving spouse who is to blame for the deprivation. There's no way to convince someone who already minimizes sex that it's a big deal.

you are really projecting here. You don't have any idea what I think is a big deal or not!!! I think that if I am in a relationship where MY needs are not getting met nobody is abusing me, I have made a choice to remain in that!! I do agree that there are ways withholding or refusing sex can be part of a pattern of abuse but in itself no and def not in the situation the OP describes. Which just sounds like a normal eroding relationship where people or maybe just his wife are not bothering to take care of the relationship and the other person anymore. It happens everyday without victimization.

 

Just look at some of the phrases....we insist that it is malicious, manipulative, or vindictive, but that could be anybody's guess (translation - it is probably our own fault and we should just quit being sex maniacs.

NO that is not the translation there is no translation. If my bf doesn't want to have sex with me anymore it is not MY FAULT unless I am doing something to drive him away, it is just what it is, and then it is up to me to try to figure out how to work on this with him or else LEAVE if it is very crucially important to me which it DOES happen to be, I would be surprised if sex is more important to you or Robert than it is to me. I just don't think my partner would be abusing me if he stopped having sex with me. Also I don't think he would be abusing me if he just told me he didn't love me anymore and left or if he had a secret affair or stopped bothering to communicate with me.

 

I just have a different idea of what constitutes abuse than you do, not a lower sex drive or value of sex.

[Rejected Rosebud]

And BTW, since withholding sex is not abuse, though it IS often a hurtful betrayal...then I assume cheating is not abuse either.

I agree it's not abuse, it is a person ruining their marriage or relationship, being a sleazebag, selfish, destructive, hurtful, but they are doing that behavior themselves, FOR themselves, not TO their husband or wife. Though some of the lying and belittling and gaslighting (like "you are crazy and jealous and paranoid, of course I really was not with a woman holding hands in that bar even though you saw me with your own eyes") IS abusive. It's not the cheating that is.

[Michelle ma Belle]

Having been a woman who was in a sexless marriage for too many years, I can't say that I would call it abuse necessarily but see it more as neglect and/or abandonment.

 

Having worked with domestic abuse cases for many years, I'm very sensitive about throwing around the word "abuse". And in terms of this discussion specifically, I think there needs to be more clarification and/or explanation before one can claim this as actual abuse.

 

Speaking as someone who felt like her needs weren't getting met by her spouse no matter what measures we took, it's extremely challenging not to feel unworthy, unattractive, insecure, hurt, angry, sad, lonely, resentful and disillusioned. It's not hard to see how the deprived partner might see it as abuse but I don't think it's a fair assessment in my humble opinion.

[Taramere]

I agree it's not abuse, it is a person ruining their marriage or relationship, being a sleazebag, selfish, destructive, hurtful, but they are doing that behavior themselves, FOR themselves, not TO their husband or wife. Though some of the lying and belittling and gaslighting (like "you are crazy and jealous and paranoid, of course I really was not with a woman holding hands in that bar even though you saw me with your own eyes") IS abusive. It's not the cheating that is.

 

I agree. The cheating itself is sly and sneaky, but I think in most cases, the cheat will try to hide what they're doing for a combination of reasons - one of which most likely is that they don't want to hurt their spouse ("what they don't know can't harm them"). But if they cheat specifically to hurt, or they blame the person ("you made me do it") or there's some other element of intending to cause pain to their partner in the course of cheating, then that's abusive.

 

Children, the very sick and the very elderly may be abused unintentionally on the basis that they're so dependent...and neglect (through carelessness rather than malice) could have a devastating effect on them.

 

With healthy adults...we can take care of ourselves. Somebody being careless or neglectful might feel disrespectful or uncaring, but it's not frightening in the way that it would be frightening for a very dependent, vulnerable being. So for me, careless behaviour only becomes actively abusive when it's coupled with an intention to harm me (either physically or emotionally).

 

I think that's the difficulty people are faced with in the kind of situations the OP has raised. They're faced with the question of "is this intentional and malicious, or not?" I generally don't think that when people are careless towards me, that it's maliciously intended...but now and again, somebody will give me little hints that actually their intentions may be malicious. There are some people who want to keep you in that state of not quite knowing whether you can trust them or not. Maybe because they have abusive tendencies, but in some cases they might just be trying to be interesting.

 

That's when you're faced with the dilemma of deciding whether a person has sufficiently abusive tendencies (either towards you or towards people generally) that you have to rethink your relationship with them. Maybe when people are very keen to label behaviour that hurts them as "abusive" it clarifies things for them. Maybe it's easier than the grey area of "should I trust them or not?"...because once you feel very certain that somebody has ill intentions towards you, the eternal trust v mistrust dilemma becomes easy to resolve in their particular case.

Edited May 19, 2015 by Taramere

[autumnnight]

This works other places, so maybe it will here.

 

I was raped years and years ago. In addition, in one of my primary relationships, I was manipulated, twisted into knots, slapped, pushed down the stairs, and called names.

 

The years I spent in a sexless marriage have required more therapy, hurt more, and have caused more triggers than either of the above incidents. I still spontaneously cry at times and it's been over for years. And part of the pain comes from the implications that it was my fault, the implication that I volunteered to be hurt because i didn't end the marriage sooner, and the implications that I was just silly for needing something so unimportant so badly.

 

At least when I was raped no one tried to belittle my pain.

 

I have also lost a child. But I am not selfish and twisted enough to say THAT wasn't as painful as the above. THAT was the most painful thing.