Listening vs. solving problems

[Els]

Regarding 'just fixing it', the problem is that not all issues have a straightforward solution or a good solution. If there were, don't you think all the 'just fix it' people would be living perfect lives?

 

Anyway, from what I've observed, everyone likes to have someone to listen when they need to vent occasionally. Yes, even men, and even the 'just fix it' types. I haven't actually met one single person who doesn't appreciate just being listened to when they have a rant, regardless of how they themselves respond when other people vent to them.

 

So IMO being able to just listen is a strength, and a skill. We all bring different things to the table.

 

(Note: Obviously I am not talking about the case where someone has 'vented' a dozen times about the exact same issue that they have done nothing about. I'm referring to cases that are a one-off usually, like a particularly difficult client at work today etc)

Edited May 4, 2015 by Elswyth

[Ninjainpajamas]

Regarding 'just fixing it', the problem is that not all issues have a straightforward solution or a good solution. If there were, don't you think all the 'just fix it' people would be living perfect lives?

 

I actually think a greater percentage of the time is that people don't want to take the advice because they already kind of know what the answer is, but don't want to actually initiate or go through with it. They want a solution to be something else or somewhere in between, so they don't have to make a concrete decision in one direction or the other, because that would be difficult.

 

So they often settle for an inadequacy or justify to themselves that there is no solution, compromising to themselves that this is the best case scenario. And that's a long process for people for them to accept something they cannot change, often times they believe they can...but at some point they will either shut up about it or accept it to a degree the way it is, after failing miserably.

 

That's a lot of the time the situation when it comes to dating/relationships, people like to complain about not being able to change someone else or some particular thing about them even though they are aware that the solution might be something in particular that they don't desire to address, they'd rather blame something else for their issues or find another way. And so then they argue/vent about it all the time and fight within themselves endlessly, not really having a desire or motivation to actually change the problem.

 

They want the "solution" that the other person changes their behavior, not that they change their own or their own expectations.

 

Also people have a lot of pride and ego, and that's what also often gets in the way, and often why people endure the struggle....and that's why people are very easy to manipulate at the same time, they can't be flexible in their thinking, all too often they are predictable in their reactions and attitude, it's like they can't stop themselves from always being one way about something, because the reality is they've already made up their mind long before and that makes them very easy to influence or very easy to upset depending on what you want to do.

 

So no, I don't think anyone else in anyone's life causes more problems than people doing it to themselves. Frankly, you are not going to live a "perfect" life, even if you had the option to because chances are that wouldn't be acceptable to you...you just wouldn't always make those decisions, people just can't help themselves from their feelings at the end of the day and they won't admit to themselves that they are making those imperfect decisions that bring themselves the unhappiness or dissatisfaction...but because its not written in stone somewhere, they always deny it and speculate that they are right or can be...even if their gut is telling them it isn't so, they need an unrealistic proof to be convinced in which they probably wouldn't read anyway, and won't actually go through with whatever it is they don't like or want to do at the end of the day, just to find out they were wrong the entire time.

 

Therefore in a twisted way in their minds, they were always right.

[xxoo]

Sometimes, rejected "solutions" are asking the person to be someone other than they are. I know my H has been complaining about the same coworker for 8 years I usually listen and empathize, but the truth is that I would have no problem handling the work issue with the coworker. We'd get along fine. But H isn't me, and their personalities clash. He has to handle it his own way.

 

Likewise, I have a coworker that I complain about, too. H always wants me to, essentially, tell her to "F off". That's not going to happen! That's what he would do, in a more professional way. I'm not him. So I've got to handle it my own way.

 

The difference is, H gets mad when I don't tell the woman to "F off". He wants to go in there and do it himself

[Els]

 

So no, I don't think anyone else in anyone's life causes more problems than people doing it to themselves. Frankly, you are not going to live a "perfect" life, even if you had the option to because chances are that wouldn't be acceptable to you...you just wouldn't always make those decisions, people just can't help themselves from their feelings at the end of the day and they won't admit to themselves that they are making those imperfect decisions that bring themselves the unhappiness or dissatisfaction...but because its not written in stone somewhere, they always deny it and speculate that they are right or can be...even if their gut is telling them it isn't so, they need an unrealistic proof to be convinced in which they probably wouldn't read anyway, and won't actually go through with whatever it is they don't like or want to do at the end of the day, just to find out they were wrong the entire time.

 

Therefore in a twisted way in their minds, they were always right.

 

I'm seeing an awful lot of 'they' and 'you' in this.

 

Two questions:

1) Do you always follow every piece of advice that you are given?

2) Have you ever vented about someone or something while not specifically wanting advice on how to solve it, from the person you are venting to?

[Diezel]

Side question: Guys, when talking about your problems to a girlfriend do you want them to give solutions or just listen and confirm feelings?

 

I have "learned" when to say, "Awww, that sucks." and when to offer solutions.

But as a man, I am ALWAYS seeking to provide solutions rather than consolation. It's hard-wired for me.

[Tayla]

Communication, Active listener, active conveyance of information.

Takes Four levels. The problem is, most are challenged with which layer to respond on.

The Logical: ( Fix it), The Emotional ( Heal it/empathize) , The analytical ( lets discuss the stuffings out of it ) and the Dismissive. ( Rather not deal at all level)

 

For the most part contingent on the talker, we( the listener) fall into one of the above more often, vacillating based on their response. Where mis-communication entangles is the person who is staunchly only able to respond on one level. Which has been conveyed here.

 

A well rounded and in tune person would be more apt to interject freely on any of those levels to get to the persons "needs" or conclusion.

 

Some carry strengths in certain dynamics, yet given the chance can improve on each level .

[Ninjainpajamas]

I'm seeing an awful lot of 'they' and 'you' in this.

 

Two questions:

1) Do you always follow every piece of advice that you are given?

2) Have you ever vented about someone or something while not specifically wanting advice on how to solve it, from the person you are venting to?

 

1) I speak in general terms, but every expectation or thing I speak about...I expect from myself, it's not just preaching and do as I say, not as I do kind of thing.

 

When I was a kid I grew up seeing a lot of people like that, and without fail...they would eventually do something that went completely against everything they have always said and stood for..and that made me completely lose respect for them in that moment...they built themselves up into this nice image of who they were, only to let everyone else and themselves down in the end.

 

However, I also took the lesson out of personal responsibility, never to be so naive as to trust what you see on the outside and to build someone up in my mind and pretend that they are perfect or the person I want them to be...that was my fault in it.

 

So i can assure you, this is not just what about "you" kind of thing...in almost every circumstance and thing that I say or feel, I take a moment to reflect on what I could be doing to myself...what about "me" and my accountability, what am I overlooking or not taking responsibility for in this situation...who or what am I blaming for my circumstances? and where am I avoiding responsibility.

 

2) Well I vent all the time on LS, but it's just a sounding board, a forum with nobody I have personal relationships with.

 

To be honest with you, I don't know how much venting I really do in real life. I talk about things, I express myself, but I'm always open to feedback and have a strong desire to understand how someone else feels or thinks. I don't think I work in the typical way in that respect.

 

Not many situations where I just feel like saying what's on my mind in particular without any input, instead I talk about things with people, it's pretty interesting conversation and we're both allowed to share how we feel or think.

 

If I'm going through a very tough situation in life or wrestling with an emotion, then I will reach out to someone who will listen and comfort me. Someone who will be compassionate and caring, not someone who will not listen, understand and ignore what I'm feeling or saying...and often times I think they rely on the same thing from me, being compassionate and understanding are not qualities I am without. It just depends on the person and situation.

..........

 

And furthermore, I don't think it necessarily has to do with strengths or weaknesses as I hear is a general theme on this board. Just because someone doesn't listen, understand or provide comfort or compassionate...doesn't mean they are necessarily incapable of any of those.

 

I changed a lot about me over the years, and I think everyone is capable of changing if they strongly desire to...so I think it's a bit of a scapegoat and making it seem more like a talent, than a basic human quality. Everyone is capable of understanding these things and doing more in those areas, let's not be unrealistic, you don't have to be born with it to be unable to improve yourself dramatically.

 

I think saying someone is incapable of something because it is not their strength, is more of a way in creating an excuse for that particular person than the actual truth.

Edited May 4, 2015 by Ninjainpajamas

[xxoo]

And furthermore, I don't think it necessarily has to do with strengths or weaknesses as I hear is a general theme on this board. Just because someone doesn't listen, understand or provide comfort or compassionate...doesn't mean they are necessarily incapable of any of those.

 

I changed a lot about me over the years, and I think everyone is capable of changing if they strongly desire to...so I think it's a bit of a scapegoat and making it seem more like a talent, than a basic human quality. Everyone is capable of understanding these things and doing more in those areas, let's not be unrealistic, you don't have to be born with it to be unable to improve yourself dramatically.

 

I think saying someone is incapable of something because it is not their strength, is more of a way in creating an excuse for that particular person than the actual truth.

 

Do you think that people need advice, or to follow advice, in order to change?

 

This would backfire with some personality types. For instance, I've got kids. If I give advice, it can be met with resistance.

 

But by listening and empathizing, and asking thoughtful questions, they often figure things out for themselves.

 

Guess which one of us--mom, the listener, or dad, the adviser--gets more cooperation from the kids

 

Listening and offering comfort is just a different way of showing support. It doesn't necessarily mean enabling, any more than offering advice means nagging (which it can be, in the extreme).

[Ninjainpajamas]

Do you think that people need advice, or to follow advice, in order to change?

 

I think so..but it's really big, long explanation of why that is so. But people need more than just advice, not to over simplify it.

 

I think people at times need direction/guidance/instruction to something they may not be entirely astute/familiar at handling properly and may not understand from their perspective why it is relevant and necessary until they can experience the results for themselves. It takes a bit of trust and faith in the other person to follow through with it...especially when you do not quite understand or can make sense of it yourself.

 

I think people who take advice and outside perspectives into their consideration within their own lives, will ultimately go through a lot more change, growth and development than someone who always insists on learning the hard way or their own way, they will make many more mistakes and may in fact never really resolve the situation if they are too stubborn and resistant.

 

Will they change at all, from 20 to 80 years old? yeah probably..but I think some people change/grow more in 5 to 10 years than some people do in a lifetime...depending on the amount of energy into self-growth they invest in themselves.

 

This would backfire with some personality types. For instance, I've got kids. If I give advice, it can be met with resistance.

 

But by listening and empathizing, and asking thoughtful questions, they often figure things out for themselves.

 

I think parenting is a bit of a different dynamic. I think they need a lot more patience and understanding, they are still growing and developing into adults. I wouldn't handle an adult the way I did a child, i would have a lot more patience and much less of an expectation with certain things.

 

Guess which one of us--mom, the listener, or dad, the adviser--gets more cooperation from the kids

 

Listening and offering comfort is just a different way of showing support. It doesn't necessarily mean enabling, any more than offering advice means nagging (which it can be, in the extreme).

 

But what happens when they need to be disciplined and someone to lay down the "law"? probably your husband. It's a hard dynamic with kids to be the disciplinary and yet the understanding one at the same time.

 

But in short, I think this is a different dynamic with children, than two adults interacting with each other.

 

Even family is another matter in itself, you can't get rid of them...although I did sign up my sister for that one way trip to Mars.

[Els]

1) I speak in general terms, but every expectation or thing I speak about...I expect from myself, it's not just preaching and do as I say, not as I do kind of thing.

 

No, my question was if you think every piece of advice from other people should be followed. Has there never been a case where you mulled over the advice of someone whom you were talking to about an issue and decided, "Well, that's not for me" or "That's not really applicable in this situation" or just plain "I disagree with that"?

 

If I'm going through a very tough situation in life or wrestling with an emotion, then I will reach out to someone who will listen and comfort me. Someone who will be compassionate and caring, not someone who will not listen, understand and ignore what I'm feeling or saying...and often times I think they rely on the same thing from me, being compassionate and understanding are not qualities I am without.

Yes, this is exactly what I (and the OP, and many of the posters here) are talking about. Listening and showing compassion.

 

And furthermore, I don't think it necessarily has to do with strengths or weaknesses as I hear is a general theme on this board. Just because someone doesn't listen, understand or provide comfort or compassionate...doesn't mean they are necessarily incapable of any of those.

 

I changed a lot about me over the years, and I think everyone is capable of changing if they strongly desire to...so I think it's a bit of a scapegoat and making it seem more like a talent, than a basic human quality. Everyone is capable of understanding these things and doing more in those areas, let's not be unrealistic, you don't have to be born with it to be unable to improve yourself dramatically.

 

I think saying someone is incapable of something because it is not their strength, is more of a way in creating an excuse for that particular person than the actual truth.

I agree that we all have some degree of control over our weaknesses, and that most people, if they desire to do so, can teach themselves to listen. It comes easier to some folks, of course, but everyone can improve themselves in this, like in most other aspects of life as well.