New member; 25 and never had a gf

[LookAtThisPOst]

Welcome newcomer! :-) Yet another "I am this age and never had a girlfriend" post...the numbers keep rising...noticing a pattern here.

 

Hello I am a 25 year old Incel(google the term). I have virtually no experience with women, except for a very brief relationship when I was 19.

I was extremely withdrawn as a teenager, but pretty much broke out of my shell at age 19. I began working out religously and approaching people in general, as well as being as open as I can with women. despite this I was constantly rejected, by my own estimate at least 175 times. Thing is at the moment I am not shy whatsoever, but I really lack any motivation to approach women, due to all the rejection I recieved.

 

A little side note, I am Arab American and live in a city in Michigan that is mostly Arab( not by my choice). The fact that I am of Arab descent has virtually nothing to do with my rejections from women, as nearly all my rejections came from Arab women. Arab women, interestingly enough are rarely the sexual prudes they are stereotyped to be. The seek high status men and men with fat wallets, both categories I do not fall in.

 

I believe my major flaw is my looks. One girl who rejected me told me I was a wonderful friend but hideous. I appreciated her honesty and till this day she is still my friend. I am curious to see if there are any other male members in the same shoes as myself

 

 

Actually I have posted on other sites dedicated to "Incel" and have met many men like myself.

 

WOW...they actually have a TERM for this...again numbers are rising.

[Vercetti]

One problem is, tried to ask a friend out...don't take her rejection over looks serious at all SHE WAS A FRIEND. So learn from that, you want women romantically so don't be thier friend. Next is doing same thing and expecting different results, if women of your culture keep rejecting you...go after girls outside your culture. Going outside your culture will make you exotic to those you approach.

 

Nothing is wrong with you, just don't do the friend thing and don't keep going after same girls that reject you.

[Vegeta2]

Yes they have a term. I don't see why this comes a surprise. There are plenty of guys who struggle to obtain a relationship. Let's take a guess at how many of those guys are genuinely good looking?...

 

Every summer I take a road trip to meet up with such Incel guys, whom I befriended online. I only ever met one anomaly among them, a guy named Erin whose major problem was his shyness, not his looks. Then again he was in the extreme minority.Man I'd do anything to look like Erin. Guy looked like a male model and was chiseled like Adonis to boot, but he was painfully shy.

 

Tl;DR; Most Incels are below average in looks!

[Vegeta2]

One problem is, tried to ask a friend out...don't take her rejection over looks serious at all SHE WAS A FRIEND. So learn from that, you want women romantically so don't be thier friend. Next is doing same thing and expecting different results, if women of your culture keep rejecting you...go after girls outside your culture. Going outside your culture will make you exotic to those you approach.

 

Nothing is wrong with you, just don't do the friend thing and don't keep going after same girls that reject you.[/quote}

 

Vercetti:

 

She was not a friend. She was a co-worker, whom was single at the time. And due to the female hard wiring she chose the better man. I have no hard feelings

[Vercetti]

Just saying I dislike your self hate. If your profile picture is you stop with all the I'm ugly crap. I know it's easy to say on the other side, just ALL guys deal with this stuff. It's mostly a head game in your own mind. Why create reasons think will be rejected? Create a different reality in your mind and let better prophecy get filled. Trust me, when started dating it was a nightmare. All could do was trial and error and try to get a bit further each time. Sometimes had to behave the exact opposite of what the noise in my head kept repeating. You deserve all the things you want and that you see other people with.

[Vegeta2]

Vercetti..

I don't hate myself and undeniably beauty is subjective.. but there are kinds of beauty most people cant appreciate and kinds that well.. you get my point.

Anyways that photo is blurry. My main problems with my looks is that my head is disproportionate to the size of my body. Nose is to big and slightly crooked and one eye droops.. Now is it any surprise that women reject me?

I'm not saying guys like me cant get a girlfriend, it's just that we have to work extra hard to do so by making up for a lack of good looks by being alpha or being rich etc..

[BlueIris]

I also Googled it and got what Pete did. And D0nnivain did. Exactly.

 

So, like it says, the problem lies within.

 

See… the women you want (who meet your expectations) have expectations that you don’t meet.

 

You could work to meet these expectations so you can get a woman you want

 

or sulk.

 

Sulking is neither sexy nor pleasant to be around. And when you're 35, you're not going to look back and say, "man, I am so glad I sulked for ten years."

 

If YOU are obsessed with looks, well, then you better be good looking. If you're not going to win in that arena, better find something you are good at and can based a relationship on.

[Vercetti]

Vercetti..

I don't hate myself and undeniably beauty is subjective.. but there are kinds of beauty most people cant appreciate and kinds that well.. you get my point.

Anyways that photo is blurry. My main problems with my looks is that my head is disproportionate to the size of my body. Nose is to big and slightly crooked and one eye droops.. Now is it any surprise that women reject me?

I'm not saying guys like me cant get a girlfriend, it's just that we have to work extra hard to do so by making up for a lack of good looks by being alpha or being rich etc..

 

We will be harder on ourselves then anyone. My hair is thin, I'm skinny, Adams Apple sticks out to much, one of my arms is slightly longer then the other, I could be smarter, more talented, have more money.

 

Guess what women find hyper attractive have same type of insecurity under the hood.

 

We can work with the positives god gave us and let those things shadow what we don't like. Might just embrace the things once thought negitive about yourself as a positive. Long ago used to wear baggy bulky cloths to hide skinny.....got over that and when went with proper fits and even bespoke did and felt worlds better. Some women likes Jack Skelton and im happy to be the one.

[joseb]

. Nose is to big and slightly crooked

 

If it really bothers you, have you considered a nose job?

[angel.eyes]

And after surgery when his defeatist attitude and belief system about women remain hurdles to actually dating? What then?

 

There are short, fat, bald, unattractive, poor men who date and are in happy, healthy relationships. Physical appearance is not the issue here!

[SawtoothMars]

I'm not entirely sure what's going on with most of the incel guys here, but from my experience with them as friends.... many times they simply have silly taste in women. At some point you HAVE to give up hoping to date supermodels and start looking at the ones who don't get much play.

[joseb]

And after surgery when his defeatist attitude and belief system about women remain hurdles to actually dating? What then?

 

There are short, fat, bald, unattractive, poor men who date and are in happy, healthy relationships. Physical appearance is not the issue here!

 

Agreed, the OP's best investment is in improving his underlying attitude.

 

That said, a cosmetic change may help his self esteem if it really is a sticking point. I had a lump removed that was visible on my arm. It wasn't a big deal, and I'm sure I could have lived fine with it, but removing it removed one niggling annoyance.

 

But yes, I agree most of the problem here is mental.

[Vegeta2]

I'm not chasing after supermodels. I would have better luck winning the lottery twice before a super model gives me the time of day. I go for average though even for those girls there are alot of competition for. And I looked into plastic surgery. It would cost me 85k for my procedures

[sagetalk]

Hello I am a 25 year old Incel(google the term).

 

First, stop labeling yourself with such horrid demeaning terms. Ditch the girl that called you ugly or tell her to shape up.

 

Second, there are a large number of men in their 20's who are unsuccessful with women. Women in this age range tend to go after the top percentages of men (10%-20%) men who have various combinations of looks, money, and social status. Usually these men are very high in at least one of them.

 

Looks are hard to change, but all three are doable. However, forget all of that. Even though it is true, you need to focus on the positive.

 

If you are looking for a woman to make you happy, you will never be happy. Women want to be with a man who is happy with his life, and he wants to bring them into his great, happy life.

 

Go find your meaning in life, find your passion, God, the things you love to do. Find the things that define who you are as a person that you are proud to be. It may or may not solve your problem with women, but it will certainly increase your self esteem and quality of life.

[ascendotum]

I'm not entirely sure what's going on with most of the incel guys here, but from my experience with them as friends.... many times they simply have silly taste in women. At some point you HAVE to give up hoping to date supermodels and start looking at the ones who don't get much play.

With the ones I knew i would not say this ^ was necessarily at the root of their troubles. Sure when we used to hang out they would notice & admire the hotties, but by the time they got to say 22-23 they figured out where they ranked on the desirability ladder. Sure the nice/struggling guys would love to have dated/shagged a Kat Von D type girl, but most of them I felt were happy to have a gf pretty much like themselves personality wise. They all pretty much wanted a slim build girl feminine girl though, which if you live in the overfed west means you are facing more competition in that regard. They felt what they wanted was not unreasonable. They over estimated what having a good job, and a nice car not being fat and having nice caring personality is worth in their 20s. To an extent fueling their frustration was their/our good looking friends who slept with lots of women..women they they would have loved to have as a gf but were just a fun ride for those guys. I remember one saying he would be ecstatic to have just 1 girl like that not dozens. and would treat her so much better, but yeah we know it doesn't work like that.

 

The guys were a mixture of average to mediocre in looks and I'd say mediocre in personality. You can make up for a mediocre looks with an above average personality and vice versa. I don't buy its just personality but a combination of the two. If you lack in one, you really need to try offset it though.

 

I also Googled it and got what Pete did. And D0nnivain did. Exactly. So, like it says, the problem lies within.

What authority says this? Was it written by a panel of sociologists, psychiatrists, psychologists, puas, anthropologists, or whatever who studied hundreds of incel guys. I'm not saying its wrong but I don't fully buy that the dating market is 100% determined by the applicants (men)

 

For any women/man struggling a sure fire remedy is to lower your expectations/standards, and lots do. We dont know if the OP is shooting for too much with the women or if his approach is really lame, but 175 for 0 is pretty dispiriting and asking that many is not typical of the woe is me incel guys. He really needs to get some intel from someone he hangs out with who does well with women or a female friend who doesn't believe in telling pretty lies to avoid hurting feelings (not the one who calls him ugly tho). I also fully agree with those that say he should ditch digging his feet in for Arab women.

[TunaInTheBrine]

Looks definitely play a role in how attracted women are to you, so don't believe people who tell you otherwise. The good news is that they are not the only thing that matters, especially if you are male. You might have to work a little harder on your personality, physique (but sounds like you're handling that), confidence, talents, etc... but success with women is still possible.

 

A good looking guy can get a woman interested in him but if he has no game then she will not stick around for long. However, if an average or below average looking guy can get a woman interested in him, and if he is good at maintaining her interest because he has good game, then he will do fine.

 

You are still young! If you keep approaching and work on the confidence piece, I'm almost certain you will be at a place you feel satisfied with over the years ahead. Keep the faith, man.

[Vegeta2]

My standards are not high. I think Tania Raymonde from Lost is beautiful. My kind of women. I am well aware that the more attractive a women is the more competition there is for her. It's a simple fact that I believe to be undeniable. Most girls I asked out were OK looking. Some were cute. A few were very attractive. It's simply that I did not develop relationship skills during the critical years( 14-19) so I trapped in a vicious circle of catch up. My looks are a major hindrance; I would be delusional if I denied that. I asked my friend to take my picture and show it to his female friends and relatives. He showed it to ten different women. 9 of them said I was ugly. The last one declined to comment. I have no reason to think the guy was lying to me about the results; he's been my friend for many years.

 

Sad thing is even if I do manage to somehow obtain a girlfriend, she will soon see my severe lack of experience manifest itself in kissing, sex, etc. I went out on a date when I was twenty and when we started making out.She was soon commenting how terrible I was at it and asking if I had even kissed a girl before. Women can tell right away. Needless to say she never contacted me again after that date. I have had many female friends and have worked with many women. I know beyond any shred of doubt that a guy past his late teens who is a virgin and who has never kissed a girl is a massive turnoff to nearly all women.

 

I'm trying to avoid the pity party. Truth is I've given up since 2012. 175 rejections is more than enough for me to get the message. Of the five years I've been posting on and off on Incel forums, I've only met ONE guy who managed to fully beat Incel by his early twenties, and he did so by approaching literally thousands of women as well as having extremely low standards. He soon found his niche by dating women 10-15 years his senior. He was a tough Irishmen, I'll give him that. I also met this extremely ugly Jewish guy on the east coast who had flawless social skills and was extremely confident. He was rejected over 1000 times by women of all sizes, shapes and races. The sad truth is sometimes a guy is so ugly that nothing short of being immensely wealthy can offset it.

 

Let me make it clear one last time that I'm not here to seek pity or lame advice like " O just keep trying"," there is some one out there for everyone".

 

I merely came here in the hope that I could meet guys who are like myself. I feel at ease with these kindred spirits because I finally get to drop my guard. I cant discuss my issues with my acquaintances.

 

Special shout out to necris!

[ascendotum]

Tania Raymonde. - I would call her very attractive. She also has a slender figure, which is very sort after by guys (for relationship or for nsa). I am not sure if she is typical of who you would chat up, but imo she is more then just ok looking

[JuneJulySeptember]

It's just about numbers. If you're somewhat less physically attractive, then it will take more numbers. Meet a nice, good woman who likes you, and you will see it's not about your personality.

 

And for those who say that OP can't get women because he has a horrible personality, how do you explain the thousands upon thousands of men who are murderers, rapists, cheaters, scammers, bullies, child abandoners who have zero trouble getting women?

 

What's that you say? Women are clouded to that stuff because of a man's humor, charm, and witty anecdotes?

 

Oh. I see. Good for humanity.

[JuneJulySeptember]

My standards are not high. I think Tania Raymonde from Lost is beautiful. My kind of women.

 

She's ridiculous.

 

Hot by almost all men's standards. If that is the standard you are using to prove that your standards are not high, then that may be your problem right there.

[Vegeta2]

Jesus Christ, Im using Tania Raymonde as an example of ethnic beauty( I think she is Jewish). I dont find Angelina Jolie attractive at all so it is a matter of personal taste. Besides I thought Raymonde was attractive when watched her in Malcolm in the middle 10, 15 years ago, back when she was all geeky. Man did she blossom...speaking of which I'd go for Mayim Bialik any day:)

[ZA Dater]

I'm not entirely sure what's going on with most of the incel guys here, but from my experience with them as friends.... many times they simply have silly taste in women. At some point you HAVE to give up hoping to date supermodels and start looking at the ones who don't get much play.

 

I will take you on about this. What you propose is simply saying "Oh that will do", pathetic to say the least, nobody is saying supermodels but with the greatest of respect if all I can muster is the human equivalent of a blue whale I would rather not bother.

[ZA Dater]

With the ones I knew i would not say this ^ was necessarily at the root of their troubles. Sure when we used to hang out they would notice & admire the hotties, but by the time they got to say 22-23 they figured out where they ranked on the desirability ladder. Sure the nice/struggling guys would love to have dated/shagged a Kat Von D type girl, but most of them I felt were happy to have a gf pretty much like themselves personality wise. They all pretty much wanted a slim build girl feminine girl though, which if you live in the overfed west means you are facing more competition in that regard. They felt what they wanted was not unreasonable. They over estimated what having a good job, and a nice car not being fat and having nice caring personality is worth in their 20s. To an extent fueling their frustration was their/our good looking friends who slept with lots of women..women they they would have loved to have as a gf but were just a fun ride for those guys. I remember one saying he would be ecstatic to have just 1 girl like that not dozens. and would treat her so much better, but yeah we know it doesn't work like that.

 

The guys were a mixture of average to mediocre in looks and I'd say mediocre in personality. You can make up for a mediocre looks with an above average personality and vice versa. I don't buy its just personality but a combination of the two. If you lack in one, you really need to try offset it though.

 

 

This really is unfortunate in my opinion but lots of it rings true I guess fact is being nice counts for NOTHING, having manners counts for NOTHING, NO, the only things that count for anything of looks, money and social standing.

 

 

If in life the best you can do is average and your go for mediocre then to me its not worth having at all.

 

 

Clearly you have had super luck with females to post such a condescending post.

[Vegeta2]

Whats this obsession with standards on this forum? Everyone has personal preferences. I see no wrong in that. Besides girls I may find attractive other guys may not

[GravityMan]

OP, you are 25 years old, and have asked out almost 200 women. That number seems high for a guy your age, and tells me that you have no real standards...aside from the women looking good I guess. I get the feeling that your conversations with the women you approached were really forced and formulaic, instead of just letting things flow.

 

I don't think you have any respect for yourself. Maybe you should stop focusing so much on getting a date/GF (this does NOT mean "give up", though) and just try to live your life, have fun, pursue your passions/career and do interesting social activities with your friends as well as new people you meet. And definitely work on the self-esteem. You seem very defeatist.

 

Good dating opportunities can cross your path when you aren't expecting it and not trying so hard.

 

"Incel" is just a poor & unnecessary mindset to have. It is best that you extinguish it. People with self-worth do not think negative thoughts like that, even if they are virgins not-by-choice. Very few people like finger-pointers, quitters, "woe is me" types or "mad at the world" types. Those types give off negative and un-fun vibes.