sweetjasmine Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 There is no point in bashing him more simply because he has been hurt already... I'm not bashing him. I'll just never understand why people marry partners with no assets who need to be taken care of and then complain that their partners have no assets and need to be taken care of. In the state where I got married, alimony was extremely rare, and division of assets included professional licenses. The laws there are about as equitable as it gets and are meant to ensure that one partner doesn't take off with all the marital assets and leave the other with nothing. I don't understand all the anger about more modern divorce laws like that and find that the more antiquated laws are going by the wayside. You still need to make your own responsible choices, and if you don't want to support someone financially, then don't marry someone who needs financial support. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
toolforgrowth Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 I'm not bashing him. I'll just never understand why people marry partners with no assets who need to be taken care of and then complain that their partners have no assets and need to be taken care of. In the state where I got married, alimony was extremely rare, and division of assets included professional licenses. The laws there are about as equitable as it gets and are meant to ensure that one partner doesn't take off with all the marital assets and leave the other with nothing. I don't understand all the anger about more modern divorce laws like that and find that the more antiquated laws are going by the wayside. You still need to make your own responsible choices, and if you don't want to support someone financially, then don't marry someone who needs financial support. The catch is that marriage and divorce laws vary from state to state. What applies where you live does not apply here. Everything else you said is true and I completely agree with. I made a huge mistake marrying my ex wife. That's a lesson I learned the hard way. Which is why I have such high standards regarding my partners, and why I stay away from marrying in my state. Well...truth be told, marriage as an institution just no longer holds my interest. It's not for me, for a lot of reasons. And I have no interest or reason to justify them to you. How I live my life is my concern...not yours. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
jay1983 Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Same rules apply. I'm my own responsibility, so I'll pay for myself regardless of the fact she makes more than me. I would never hold someone to a standard to which I would not hold myself. That'd be dishonest and hypocritical. I meant marriage Link to post Share on other sites
toolforgrowth Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 I meant marriage Oh gotcha. I still wouldn't marry her. Her money is her money, and my money is my money. I do just fine on my own...I don't need a woman's money to have a good life. I can do that all on my own. Personal responsibility, man. Take care of yourself and only yourself, and never depend on anyone else for your happiness or quality of life. Link to post Share on other sites
Anela Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 I'm okay with that. Good. ........... Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Actually, the salary a woman makes might make no difference in a divorce, depending on how backward the district in which you divorce is. I know someone who was married to a woman surgeon, and while her salary eclipsed his, and his schedule was more predictable than hers (not to mention he had done most of the child raising up until the D), she STILL got alimony and the traditional custody arrangement where he only got every other weekend and a weeknight. It was an injustice of criminal proportion. Link to post Share on other sites
SearchingForMyself Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 This thread is still going on? Look, men by far stand a better chance at losing a lot in marriage. Women don't seem to realize that. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Anela Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 This thread is still going on? Look, men by far stand a better chance at losing a lot in marriage. Women don't seem to realize that. You're thinking about the financial side of things - you forget that the woman had also been in love, and her marriage and the life she thought they would have together, is gone. Link to post Share on other sites
toolforgrowth Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 You're thinking about the financial side of things - you forget that the woman had also been in love, and her marriage and the life she thought they would have together, is gone. Play me the world's smallest violin. Not only was that my emotional state, I also had to deal with being financially raped and having my daughter taken from me at the same time. All the while, my xWW was happily humping another dude. I don't think she was all that broken up about it. Well, not at first anyway. Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 You're thinking about the financial side of things - you forget that the woman had also been in love, and her marriage and the life she thought they would have together, is gone. Men go through this as well plus we get our kids taken away from us and have to foot the bill for the whole thing. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Anela Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 There was a woman here, who was taken to the cleaners in her divorce. Her lying, cheating, ex-husband received alimony from her. I'm sure she isn't the only one. There are men who are concerned about their children (don't mind taking care of them financially, or in any other way), and also recognize their own part in things, don't think that their ex is evil, etc. why is it always, always the woman's fault? How did you mess up? (Woggle is excluded from that question - his ex was insane.) Link to post Share on other sites
sweetjasmine Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Men go through this as well plus we get our kids taken away from us and have to foot the bill for the whole thing. The vast majority of the time, the couple ends up deciding that the woman should retain primary custody. Only a small percentage of custody disputes actually end up in court, and very few men fight for custody. But that must all be women's fault, somehow. My brother was never married to the mother of his child, but he's going to take her to court for 50/50 custody. And I hope he gets it. But the truth of the matter is that he's a statistical outlier, as are men who fight for full custody during a divorce. Link to post Share on other sites
toolforgrowth Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Men go through this as well plus we get our kids taken away from us and have to foot the bill for the whole thing. There was a woman here, who was taken to the cleaners in her divorce. Her lying, cheating, ex-husband received alimony from her. I'm sure she isn't the only one. There are men who are concerned about their children (don't mind taking care of them financially, or in any other way), and also recognize their own part in things, don't think that their ex is evil, etc. why is it always, always the woman's fault? How did you mess up? (Woggle is excluded from that question - his ex was insane.) I didn't mess up. I worked my ass off to provide for family. I cooked dinner every night and brought her breakfast in bed. I was a damned good father to both my daughter and her daughter from a prior marriage. I moved her from a trailer park into a brand new house. I bought her two cars. I sincerely loved that woman. And got stabbed in the back. But it's nice to know that if I encounter a woman who got equally screwed, I can ask HER what she did to cause get to get cheated on and blame her for her husband's actions. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
toolforgrowth Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 (edited) The vast majority of the time, the couple ends up deciding that the woman should retain primary custody. Only a small percentage of custody disputes actually end up in court, and very few men fight for custody. But that must all be women's fault, somehow. My brother was never married to the mother of his child, but he's going to take her to court for 50/50 custody. And I hope he gets it. But the truth of the matter is that he's a statistical outlier, as are men who fight for full custody during a divorce. I lawyered up and fought for every second of time I could get with my daughter. I fought HARD. EDIT: I didn't win 50/50 time with my daughter at first, but I have it now. Edited April 16, 2015 by toolforgrowth Link to post Share on other sites
SearchingForMyself Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 You're thinking about the financial side of things - you forget that the woman had also been in love, and her marriage and the life she thought they would have together, is gone. Blunt time, that's the biggest load of absolute crap I've ever heard. How can you even compare the sheer amount of time, sweat, effort, and pain men have to do to work in this society to a broken heart? Late nights, stress, future health problems, lost time to put in to afford that house and car and vacations for their wives who not only betray them but take them to the cleaners? While both parties suffer heartbreak, men suffer heartbreak, losing their kids, their homes, their hard earned possessions, the chance at intimacy cause guess what? Most attractive women are not gonna want him in such a shattered state. And don't get me started on the shame? Women, if they need it, can easily find a guy to cover expenses. But what can a man do if he loses everything? Not much. I am usually on your side Anela, but don't you DARE think that women and men suffer equally in divorce. For the life of me why is it so hard for some women to accept that life is unfair? Your broken heart can be healed. But men have to carry more than just a broken heart, and unlike many women, we were raised in a society where complaining about it or seeking support is seen as weakness. That is the way it is. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Blunt time, that's the biggest load of absolute crap I've ever heard. How can you even compare the sheer amount of time, sweat, effort, and pain men have to do to work in this society to a broken heart? Late nights, stress, future health problems, lost time to put in to afford that house and car and vacations for their wives who not only betray them but take them to the cleaners? While both parties suffer heartbreak, men suffer heartbreak, losing their kids, their homes, their hard earned possessions, the chance at intimacy cause guess what? Most attractive women are not gonna want him in such a shattered state. And don't get me started on the shame? Women, if they need it, can easily find a guy to cover expenses. But what can a man do if he loses everything? Not much. I am usually on your side Anela, but don't you DARE think that women and men suffer equally in divorce. For the life of me why is it so hard for some women to accept that life is unfair? Your broken heart can be healed. But men have to carry more than just a broken heart, and unlike many women, we were raised in a society where complaining about it or seeking support is seen as weakness. That is the way it is. Many studies have concluded that women suffer more financially after divorce. In recent years, some studies have found men suffering financially more, which may suggest that things are evening out and will hopefully one day be fair (with neither gender suffering more financially). Women WORK in 2015. Most families are functioning on 2 incomes, and both suffer financially in divorce. Any woman thinking that a man is going to swoop in to support a her and her children is incredibly foolish. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
SearchingForMyself Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Many studies have concluded that women suffer more financially after divorce. In recent years, some studies have found men suffering financially more, which may suggest that things are evening out and will hopefully one day be fair (with neither gender suffering more financially). Women WORK in 2015. Most families are functioning on 2 incomes, and both suffer financially in divorce. Any woman thinking that a man is going to swoop in to support a her and her children is incredibly foolish. Tell that to courts and desperate men. Link to post Share on other sites
jen1447 Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Blunt time, that's the biggest load of absolute crap I've ever heard. How can you even compare the sheer amount of time, sweat, effort, and pain men have to do to work in this society to a broken heart? Late nights, stress, future health problems, lost time to put in to afford that house and car and vacations for their wives who not only betray them but take them to the cleaners? While both parties suffer heartbreak, men suffer heartbreak, losing their kids, their homes, their hard earned possessions, the chance at intimacy cause guess what? Most attractive women are not gonna want him in such a shattered state. And don't get me started on the shame? Women, if they need it, can easily find a guy to cover expenses. But what can a man do if he loses everything? Not much. I am usually on your side Anela, but don't you DARE think that women and men suffer equally in divorce. For the life of me why is it so hard for some women to accept that life is unfair? Your broken heart can be healed. But men have to carry more than just a broken heart, and unlike many women, we were raised in a society where complaining about it or seeking support is seen as weakness. That is the way it is. ^ Massive logical fallacy. You simply can't apply your limited experiential knowledge in any comprehensive sense to such a broad range of circumstances that have the potential for unlimited variability. "Because I've seen it a few times" does not equal universal truth. If you really want to stand behind those assertions, you'll need to cite references to back them up - studies, testimony of experts, etc. - all saying that all women "can easily find a guy to cover expenses," never "lose their kids, their homes, their hard earned possessions," demonstrate that women never suffer financial or practical hardship as a result of divorce, and demonstrate that women never lose custody or assets, and so on. You've made unequivocal statements that you simply can't back up, and what's worse, you presumed to climb up on a soapbox and preach about them. Link to post Share on other sites
Anela Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Blunt time, that's the biggest load of absolute crap I've ever heard. How can you even compare the sheer amount of time, sweat, effort, and pain men have to do to work in this society to a broken heart? Late nights, stress, future health problems, lost time to put in to afford that house and car and vacations for their wives who not only betray them but take them to the cleaners? While both parties suffer heartbreak, men suffer heartbreak, losing their kids, their homes, their hard earned possessions, the chance at intimacy cause guess what? Most attractive women are not gonna want him in such a shattered state. And don't get me started on the shame? Women, if they need it, can easily find a guy to cover expenses. But what can a man do if he loses everything? Not much. I am usually on your side Anela, but don't you DARE think that women and men suffer equally in divorce. For the life of me why is it so hard for some women to accept that life is unfair? Your broken heart can be healed. But men have to carry more than just a broken heart, and unlike many women, we were raised in a society where complaining about it or seeking support is seen as weakness. That is the way it is. Excuse me, but don't you DARE to tell me that women fare any better after a divorce. My parents divorced each other when they were younger, and remarried when I was a teenager. My Dad didn't treat my mother like ****, and my mother worked damned hard to support us financially. She was up before 6am, out to work all day, worked a lot of overtime, had to deal with all sorts of things that two parents (or even childless couples) would have to deal with. She exhausted herself, in order to look after us - and that was with child support from my Dad. She wasn't sponging off anyone. Link to post Share on other sites
SearchingForMyself Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 ^ Massive logical fallacy. You simply can't apply your limited experiential knowledge in any comprehensive sense to such a broad range of circumstances that have the potential for unlimited variability. "Because I've seen it a few times" does not equal universal truth. If you really want to stand behind those assertions, you'll need to cite references to back them up - studies, testimony of experts, etc. - all saying that all women "can easily find a guy to cover expenses," never "lose their kids, their homes, their hard earned possessions," demonstrate that women never suffer financial or practical hardship as a result of divorce, and demonstrate that women never lose custody or assets, and so on. You've made unequivocal statements that you simply can't back up, and what's worse, you presumed to climb up on a soapbox and preach about them. You want facts? Look this is not a factual debate. But you want a point of reference, talk to the men on ls. Charts and statistics can be skewed, but experience can not Link to post Share on other sites
SearchingForMyself Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Sigh. Guys, do you agree with what the women here are saying? Link to post Share on other sites
Anela Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 My Dad has told me what it was like for him, after the divorce. He was hurt and angry, depressed as hell, but he didn't let the bitterness stick. He didn't want to see us pulled between two different countries, so he didn't fight for custody. He didn't hate my mother, he saw a therapist, took up jogging, did whatever he could to deal with what he was going through, and to change whatever had my mother leaving him. He was married again, and his second wife cheated on him eventually (by the way, she was ten years younger, for those who like to go on about the wonderful younger women of the world). He didn't become bitter, and he remarried my mother. I wasn't going to bring this up here, because I wasn't going to put him up as an example to be bashed by anyone. I do not dismiss the hurts of single fathers. I had a big crush on one last year, when I saw just how good of a father he was. Do you guys think that I would approve of anything that would crush my Dad? He's one of my favourite people in this world. In this lifetime. I think he's amazing, and he doesn't blame women for all of his problems. Link to post Share on other sites
jay1983 Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Okay so men are screwed after divorce, women are screwed after divorce. Let's just not get married, what's the point anyway? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
jen1447 Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 You want facts? Look this is not a factual debate. What does that even mean? You're knowingly arguing from a position of ignorance, and expecting everyone to take you seriously anyway? Link to post Share on other sites
Anela Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Okay so men are screwed after divorce, women are screwed after divorce. Let's just not get married, what's the point anyway? Because they aren't all screwed - some people never divorce, and others work through their problems. Link to post Share on other sites
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