Women don't play by the rules

April 16, 2015

But in the meantime, I'm still out all that money with nothing to show for it.

I get your argument, but I value the money more. It's that simple. With that money, I could take my daughter to the movies, or take her to other child-friendly places in town, or treat myself to beers and sushi, or put it in savings for home improvements, or buy a nice bottle of scotch.

I don't invest in something unless it's proven it'll be a worthwhile investment. I'm not going to throw money at something and hope it pans out. That's just silly to me.

Fair enough. It is about showing that you value the woman, that's the point. And if you don't value her, don't invest.

At some point, everyone has to invest to connect on any meaningful level. Gotta play to win

April 16, 2015

The way to fix that is knowing that you have full control. Like others have said, you don't have to take her to a restaurant. You can go for a walk in a park or other cheap ideas.

There is so many different ways to handle a date that I find it comical and yet sad at the same time when other guys is complaining about the money they spend on dates as if the only way to treat a woman is to take her out to dinner.

Seriously? Is the creativity of the guys we have this generation is so bad that it has came to this?

And remember: This is coming from a guy that hasn't even dated a woman yet at the age of 28.

It usually only happens when you date random girls. I went through that whole deal when I was dating. When you have some experience under your belt you can figure it out 9 times out of 10 pretty quick.

I took my fiance horseback riding on our first date and it didn't cost me any money. It took time and money and experience to get to the point where I could offer that to a girl, but I wouldn't do that for just any random girl.

April 16, 2015

I actually get REALLY uncomfortable when people spend money on me. I get anxiety over it. So yeah, I'm glad that I haven't had a lot of money spent on me. I don't know why it's an issue that I'm happy about something that literally only affects me, and no one else. And I have no idea what my age has to do with it, but I'm not in my 30's. I'm 25.

Phoe, I would like for us to have a small picnicv at the park and talk about the lonely people with their dogs walking past us!

April 16, 2015

Phoe, I would like for us to have a small picnicv at the park and talk about the lonely people with their dogs walking past us!

I had a picnic date with my ex, and I adored it. It felt special.

And it didn't cost any more than grabbing some things at the market, and making the food!

Simplicity. There's so many complicated ideas about what dating should or shouldn't be... I just wish folks would relax a bit about that.

Dating means many different things to many different people. And a little flexibility on that mindset can do folks a world of good.

April 16, 2015

I think they just gave up trying to get us to change our minds. Which is a good thing as far as in concerned!

On the flip side, we men have our own business to take care of. It's easier for me to be picky because I've worked hard to drastically improve my financial situation. I'm sitting pretty at the age of 35, and it's only going to get better. I take good care of myself.

But there is truth to what women say about men who are socially awkward, who game all day/night, and who don't actually do anything to be attractive to the opposite sex, but yet expect super models, or at least really attractive women. They have to have at least a LITTLE bit of charisma.

Both genders have to have something to offer in order to be viable options.

You aren't going to change our minds. I've been spending time with family.

April 16, 2015

You aren't going to change our minds.

I'm okay with that.

April 16, 2015

I had a picnic date with my ex, and I adored it. It felt special.

And it didn't cost any more than grabbing some things at the market, and making the food!

Simplicity. There's so many complicated ideas about what dating should or shouldn't be... I just wish folks would relax a bit about that.

Dating means many different things to many different people. And a little flexibility on that mindset can do folks a world of good.

Its a date then! I vote you see my face so you know I'm not an ogre in a swamp

Edited April 16, 2015 by SearchingForMyself

April 16, 2015

I am reading all of this and I have to be honest. I am seeing a lot of fear, anger, hurt and pain in between the lines of what is being written...

I am actually going to change my dating game. I am thinking about only dating people who have never been married.

My reasons are that I do want to get married at some point. I see it as a commitment to a person who I want to share my life with. Share being the operative word here. Finances, good times, bad times, car, bed, arguments, laughter, the bath!

Seems to me that many men (and women too!) who have gone through divorce have been so damaged that they will never get over it and truly give themselves (all the bad bits and the good) to another person...

Perhaps that is where we are going wrong. We have made it too easy to hurt other people.

April 16, 2015

I am reading all of this and I have to be honest. I am seeing a lot of fear, anger, hurt and pain in between the lines of what is being written...

I am actually going to change my dating game. I am thinking about only dating people who have never been married.

My reasons are that I do want to get married at some point. I see it as a commitment to a person who I want to share my life with. Share being the operative word here. Finances, good times, bad times, car, bed, arguments, laughter, the bath!

Seems to me that many men (and women too!) who have gone through divorce have been so damaged that they will never get over it and truly give themselves (all the bad bits and the good) to another person...

Perhaps that is where we are going wrong. We have made it too easy to hurt other people.

Not sure how old you are...but if you are above the age of ....say...35, then good luck finding someone who is older than 35 and never been married or had kids....And while I wont make a blanket statement and say its true for everyone., many people find those who are over 40 and never married and no kids to be somehow abnormal and odd in many ways..Again, these are not my opinions, just what I have heard/seen...

Age taints us all...Life experiences mold us...Unfortunately, if you have had a bad experience, then its just common sense that you are going to be jaded and cynical..

Men seem to suffer from this more than women do...Middle aged guys that have been "through the wars" are probably not going to be aligned with your desires of wanting the wedding and the white fence and dog..Women seem to remain somewhat optimistic..Even if they have been hurt, they still hold out hope..Mush less likely to become jaded/cynical, imo...

TFY

April 16, 2015

Men seem to suffer from this more than women do...Middle aged guys that have been "through the wars" are probably not going to be aligned with your desires of wanting the wedding and the white fence and dog..Women seem to remain somewhat optimistic..Even if they have been hurt, they still hold out hope..Mush less likely to become jaded/cynical, imo...

That's because the courts favor women. So the men were probably financially devastated in divorce, while the women are sitting nicely on ex-hub's alimony and child support payments.

Also, women literally put no work into dating. They just have to show up. Men have to put in all of the work.

I think that a lot of guys realize this as they get older and either become bitter or apathetic (or a little of both) to the whole thing.

I already feel that way (a bit bitter, but mostly apathetic) and I'm in my late 20s and never married.

April 16, 2015

Also, women literally put no work into dating. .

I would guess most women would beg to differ on that one.

April 16, 2015

I would guess most women would beg to differ on that one.

That would be because the statement you quoted is patently false. But you won't convince a bitter man who NEEDS to believe that of its falshood.

Todaloo, you don't have to stick to never been marrieds. In REAL life, I know lots of men who have chosen NOT to allow their past hurts to make their future choices and who do not punish present and future women for past women's mistakes. You just need to be on the lookout for someone healthy and mature.

April 16, 2015

Not sure how old you are...but if you are above the age of ....say...35, then good luck finding someone who is older than 35 and never been married or had kids....And while I wont make a blanket statement and say its true for everyone., many people find those who are over 40 and never married and no kids to be somehow abnormal and odd in many ways..Again, these are not my opinions, just what I have heard/seen...

Age taints us all...Life experiences mold us...Unfortunately, if you have had a bad experience, then its just common sense that you are going to be jaded and cynical..

Men seem to suffer from this more than women do...Middle aged guys that have been "through the wars" are probably not going to be aligned with your desires of wanting the wedding and the white fence and dog..Women seem to remain somewhat optimistic..Even if they have been hurt, they still hold out hope..Mush less likely to become jaded/cynical, imo...

TFY

I will let you know how I get on.

Currently getting to know one who is well above 35 never married and never had kids... he is top of my list at the moment. I really like him. Also got another who I suspect is divorced, no kids but not got that far to check yet and another who well... there is no getting around it, he is younger... no past marriage and no children.

And while I would agree that I am not really what anyone would call "normal"... I don't twitch in weird ways or have overly fanciful notions...

If I end up with a toy boy what the heck at least he will have energy! *note to self must start feeding the young one energy drinks and get him drinking more coffee...*

April 16, 2015

I would guess most women would beg to differ on that one.

Mmm so I do all the asking and the arranging fluff up my hair, bother to iron my shirts go into town (which I hate), spend a **** load of cash on travel and while on these "dates", bother with make up and perfume etc and I am putting no effort in?

Hairy biker balls to that statement. Elaine you put it far too politely this time.

April 16, 2015

Mmm so I do all the asking and the arranging fluff up my hair, bother to iron my shirts go into town (which I hate), spend a **** load of cash on travel and while on these "dates", bother with make up and perfume etc and I am putting no effort in?

Hairy biker balls to that statement. Elaine you put it far too politely this time.

I'd be willing to bet that the poster hasn't had a date in his life, so I wouldn't let it bother me too much.

April 16, 2015

I am reading all of this and I have to be honest. I am seeing a lot of fear, anger, hurt and pain in between the lines of what is being written...

I am actually going to change my dating game. I am thinking about only dating people who have never been married.

My reasons are that I do want to get married at some point. I see it as a commitment to a person who I want to share my life with. Share being the operative word here. Finances, good times, bad times, car, bed, arguments, laughter, the bath!

Seems to me that many men (and women too!) who have gone through divorce have been so damaged that they will never get over it and truly give themselves (all the bad bits and the good) to another person...

Perhaps that is where we are going wrong. We have made it too easy to hurt other people.

Divorced fathers are 8x more likely to commit suicide than their married counterparts in the US. And in the UK, suicide is the leading cause of death for middle aged men.

I had to give up everything in my house, except for what I could fit into a tiny Kia, along with the majority of time with my daughter and $400/month child support, to a woman who cheated on me for months.

This is men's reality. As far as I'm concerned, marriage is a death sentence for us...sometimes literally.

I completely agree with you that it's too easy to hurt someone. But I think that the majority of women have no interest in changing divorce laws. They're skewed in their favor. Who would voluntarily give up something that benefits them?

The best course of action for men is to simply not play the game and stay unmarried. It can sometimes literally save their lives.

April 16, 2015

Divorced fathers are 8x more likely to commit suicide than their married counterparts in the US. And in the UK, suicide is the leading cause of death for middle aged men.

I had to give up everything in my house, except for what I could fit into a tiny Kia, along with the majority of time with my daughter and $400/month child support, to a woman who cheated on me for months.

This is men's reality. As far as I'm concerned, marriage is a death sentence for us...sometimes literally.

I completely agree with you that it's too easy to hurt someone. But I think that the majority of women have no interest in changing divorce laws. They're skewed in their favor. Who would voluntarily give up something that benefits them?

The best course of action for men is to simply not play the game and stay unmarried. It can sometimes literally save their lives.

I had three boxes and my car. No money as that was in the joint account... 5 bedroom house to a corner of a barn - quite literally.

Do I blame man kind because one was a tool?

Nope.

Until men fight for greater rights they are not going to get them. Until they stand up and say "Actually my wife is a ****e mother and I can do a better job" they are not going to win. The bold shows the pain. I am sorry you met a bad one.

April 16, 2015

Divorced fathers are 8x more likely to commit suicide than their married counterparts in the US. [...] As far as I'm concerned, marriage is a death sentence for us...sometimes literally.

Logically, divorce is the "death sentence," not marriage. Divorce is not inevitable.

But I think that the majority of women have no interest in changing divorce laws.

And what divorce laws would that be? If your ex ended up with "everything," then you must've had a terrible lawyer or you must've married someone with zero assets and no ability to ever support themselves. But that's all someone else's fault, I'm sure.

April 16, 2015

Logically, divorce is the "death sentence," not marriage. Divorce is not inevitable.

And what divorce laws would that be? If your ex ended up with "everything," then you must've had a terrible lawyer or you must've married someone with zero assets and no ability to ever support themselves. But that's all someone else's fault, I'm sure.

Actually my lawyer was quite good. I live in a no fault state. Had it been a fault state, things would have been completely different.

Your attitude only proves my point.

April 16, 2015

Logically, divorce is the "death sentence," not marriage. Divorce is not inevitable.

And what divorce laws would that be? If your ex ended up with "everything," then you must've had a terrible lawyer or you must've married someone with zero assets and no ability to ever support themselves. But that's all someone else's fault, I'm sure.

SJ

While I agree with some of your sentiment - don't you think the poor bloke has been through enough? There is no point in bashing him more simply because he has been hurt already... Its not going to take any of the pain away and its not going to help nor resolve anything. Lets leave him be eh?

So he has a different view. Thats OK. If I don't find my sort of normal middle aged man who does want to try again with me then thats OK too...

April 16, 2015

Tool what would you say if the women made just as much or more money?

I haven't had the opportunity to date one, but theoretically speaking.

April 16, 2015

There are a lot of people on here that are jaded just from dating. So the whole divorced argument, while valid, is not necessarily going to help anyone.

April 16, 2015

Until men fight for greater rights they are not going to get them.

Precisely. Why do you think I have been so vocal on this thread? Why do you think I'm eschewing marriage for the rest of my life? Why do you think I stay away from women who can't support themselves?

You're preaching to the choir.

Other people can get married. It's their choice. What they do doesn't impact me. But I'm staying away from it. No other human being will ever get their hands on my money, assets, or life in any way. My quality of life has increased dramatically, even from when I was married. Who in their right mind would jeopardize that again?

Marriage is a bad product that has no real value. I gain nothing by marrying, and can lose everything. Until marriage becomes more lucrative for me, I'm not going to buy it. No woman is worth everything I own and my livelihood.

April 16, 2015

SJ

While I agree with some of your sentiment - don't you think the poor bloke has been through enough? There is no point in bashing him more simply because he has been hurt already... Its not going to take any of the pain away and its not going to help nor resolve anything. Lets leave him be eh?

So he has a different view. Thats OK. If I don't find my sort of normal middle aged man who does want to try again with me then thats OK too...

You're kind. But her attitude doesn't bother me. If anything, it indicates I'm on the right track. Marriage is how bad women keep men in legal bondage. Men who refuse to be bonded are outside of their sphere of influence. This is unacceptable to them, for that means their gravy train has dried up and they have to rely on who they are as a person rathet than on the fact they simply have a vagina.

Numerous studies have shown that unmarried couples who cohabitate have the greatest success rate and have the most sex.

Count me in.

April 16, 2015

Tool what would you say if the women made just as much or more money?

I haven't had the opportunity to date one, but theoretically speaking.

Same rules apply. I'm my own responsibility, so I'll pay for myself regardless of the fact she makes more than me.

I would never hold someone to a standard to which I would not hold myself. That'd be dishonest and hypocritical.

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