The never ending story....need support today

[Blu72]

Kismet,

 

I am sorry about your pain. There has been a lot said in this thread that I won't repeat because it's been said enough. But I will leave you with this -

 

Our stories may not be exactly the same, but the theme is the same. I am a MW who has been in an on/off affair with MM for almost 4 years. We have had our months/year where we weren't in it, but that's just semantics.

 

I want to thank you for your post because, although I understand you are hurting and deeply affected by this, I realize if I don't get my sh*t together soon I will be in the same place as you in 6 more years. This whole tread really got me examining my own situation and how I really don't want to be on this forum 6 years from now saying the same stuff. Ending things is hard - I so get that. But I can't even imagine how hard it would be after TEN years. Please for the sake of pulling yourself out of this mess, get out now and go complete NC. He isn't leaving even if he does love you. Period.

 

Good luck to you and I hope you take in all these posts and really think about where you want to be in another 10 years.

[endingpage]

I wish you would recognize your own self worth, KismetGirl. If you don't, you will be stuck in this forever. If you think you deserve better, then demand better.

 

I get where you are coming from, I really do. My MM was the first and only person I have been with and I loved him. I was a wreck for a long time after things ended. I still have my setbacks. Still. I have not completely forgiven myself for being a home wrecker. But I am definitely better.

 

In the past year, I have done things that make me happy., knowing that unless I am happy with just my own company, I will never be entirely happy with someone else. I have more or less been consumed by wanderlust; I have travelled extensively internationally as well as all through the USA. I have made new friends, had some fantastic experiences, volunteered abroad, did stuff I didn't think I could (like skydive). I travel alone but I am never lonely. That was the tipping point for me; knowing I could be alone but not lonely.

 

In doing so: I am in the best shape of my life, I am doing really well at work -- well liked by even the grumpiest surgeons and co-authoring papers, I picked up some new hobbies -- alpine climbing and I am on track to tackle Kilimanjaro and Aconcagua this year, I am re connecting with old friends, etc. Basically, once I decided I would be happy, I AM happy, and it shows.

 

The other thing you must try to do is stop with the self pity. That sets into a really dangerous feedback loop. The sooner you stop feeling sorry for yourself and then actually doing stuff that makes you happy, the better. D.H Lawrence has this awesome quote: "I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself."

 

So, go and be wild instead of stuck in this awful decades-long torture. I wish you strength.

Edited April 10, 2015 by endingpage

[Minnie09]

I think this man is weak. He seems to be afraid to make decisions in general, and the 4th unplanned child was probably a relief for him. Because now he "really can't do anything". Now he's trapped in a bad M. No need to make a decision and to talk divorce. With 4? No. Plus, the fact that you don't provide a soft landing spot, is probably also a reason why he won't take action. You travel too much and you're not geographically stable, that means, he won't have a guarantee that you'll be around IF he decides to leave his M for you, which he doesn't, because he doesn't want to. See above. But all those things give him reasons to remain stuck. You traveling and appearing independent (to him, on the outside), and a lot of kids. I would definitely try the approach of TELLING him that you WOULD be committed and WILLING to be a stepmom to his kids. With a stable job / home and less traveling. And see what he says. I bet he would find another excuse. But it's worth trying and it would give you more clarity. And it is what you want and what you'd do anyways. So go for it. One more thing: The fact that he had not contacted you in years and then contacted you out of the blue, doesn't mean that you're always on his mind. It means that he doesn't care enough to keep in touch.

[the_artist_1970]

So MM can't leave his W because of his children, but oops he made a mistake and slept with her and had another child that he doesn't want. SMH

 

I have a bridge Brooklyn that I would like to sell you for $50.00. Pulease!!! These MM who cheat are cowards and they take advantage of ppl like you are afraid of real commitment and feed you a bunch of balogna. This is not love, this is fear of living in the real world and being an authentic person. Have you ever thought for one second to ask his W if ANY of this garbage he is telling you is true? Just curious as to why you believe everything this cheater says. SMH

[whichwayisup]

I wish you lots of strength and courage to get through this when you move away again, that you can let go of him and do your absolute best to try to get him out of your heart.

 

He is where he wants to be, his kids are important, his family life is more important than starting over with you. He doesn't have it in him to share custody, to divorce and not see his kids daily. This is where you decide if what he is offering you is enough - You can't have him the way you truly want him, I know you want your own life with someone, to have kids, someone who you can rely on day or night. You won't ever have that if you continue with him. It'll always be an affair and you'll always be the OW.

 

Got more to say, but will PM you the rest later in the day

 

In the meantime, allow yourself to feel, to grieve, to adjust. Practice yoga and do some meditation, just to keep your mind more at peace. When you move, stay as busy as you can and do your best to detach from him.

[ladydesigner]

After all these years he can finally admit he's not in love with his wife and would leave her immediately , except for his children. He has tried to work on his marriage the last few years I suppose-- going to therapy, trying to work on their sex life at home (he's very honest with me about this, for better or worse...), etc (which resulted in yet another child this year being born that was not planned). But after all this time all he's learned from therapy is that he has to "put up" with being married in order to maintain his family life. He feels he cant be the same father he is now and as involved in their lives as he is now if he can't live with his children. It's literally the biggest reason he stays aside from the emotional and financial turmoils associated with divorce. When I asked what he'd do if he found his wife cheating he said he'd be relieved. Today when I spoke to him and asked him if he doesn't feel sad feeling a void in his personal life he said that he does but that he can't see how putting his needs/wants (read: being in a happier relationship with me than his wife) putting those wants first will work. He said his personal happiness can't be put ahead of his children. He said he's thought about it constantly-- imagined living apart from them and the thought of now waking up and seeing his kids in the morning or before they go to bed kills him.

 

 

I am pretty sure my WH did this to the MOW. They were together for 3 years, 2 were underground and during the 2 years their A went underground my WH told MOW that we were not getting along and he was not happy. I thought we were happy and in R. My WH's actions were showing me that even though he was doing otherwise. I am sure your MM probably does the same to his BS. Probably makes her think something entirely different is going on.

 

These MM/WS's only seemed to be concerned with one thing: How they feel. I'm really not sure they care about anyone else in the equation.

 

I'm sorry (((Kismet Girl))) you find yourself back in this position again. You can always change that though

[adna89]

Kismetgirl,sorry to be harsh but you are a very naive girl,you lost a decede for this guy! and after a decade he "Admits" he does not love her but still he WONT leave because of kids

 

you gave your life for this guy and i really can not feel bad for you....since you deserve it,plain and simple

 

Fool me once shame on you,fool me twice shame on me..and this guy has done it for a decade

[awkward]

So you took one last whirl on the rollercoaster. Now it is time to get off the ride. When you leave, leave him behind. All reminders. Go NC and block him at all avenues. I know you don't want to, but you have to. It will hurt, but it won't hurt more than him not leaving his marriage to be with you.

 

It is time KG. Let him go.

[adna89]

Do you have kids kismet girl?

[anna121]

Kismet.

 

He sent you an email after he chanced across yours from some co-worker.

 

He didn't "track you down from half a world away."

 

He knew you were back in the country and he was feeling depressed about his impending fourth child so he used you to make himself feel better and he didn't even bother to tell you about the impending fourth child until he had started to reel you in.

 

That's my read of your previous thread.

 

And you won't even tell him what you're really feeling.

Edited April 11, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
removed derogatory poke

[KismetGirl]

Kismet.

 

He sent you an email after he chanced across yours from some co-worker.

 

He didn't "track you down from half a world away."

 

He knew you were back in the country and he was feeling depressed about his impending fourth child so he used you to make himself feel better and he didn't even bother to tell you about the impending fourth child until he had started to reel you in.

 

That's my read of your previous thread.

 

And you won't even tell him what you're really feeling.

 

 

I try really hard to keep identifying details of my story out of this to remain anonymous. So occasionally I dont say exact details and give "close enough" stories so you get the idea of whats happening without being able to identify me.

 

He did not get my email from a coworker-- he had asked old coworkers over a year ago that we are mutual friends with on facebook if they knew how to get in touch with me, and they did not respond to him. He HAD NO IDEA I WAS IN THE COUNTRY. NONE. He thought I was still overseas when he found me a few months ago.

 

He found my email by literally searching the internet high and low for me and happened to find a website that had one link with my name on a post i had written regarding something work-related. The website gives you the option to "respond to the poster" by sending them a private message through the website without actually giving you their private email. It was a very random website that should have been taken down a year ago and because I never bothered to update and remove this event-page he happened to see my name and contacted me through the event page site. It was an old website that was for an event I organised overseas well over a year ago and I just never took it down. So to be honest he didnt even have my email, the website sent me the message from him, that had his email in it, and in it he asked me to write to him at his new job email. That's how we ended up talking again.

 

So, again I will repeat-- he thought I was still overseas when he wrote to me. He made multiple attempts over the last couple years to ask old mutual friends of ours how to contact me and people either told him they did not know or ignored his requests because many of our old mutual friends know our history. So yes, he really did actually miss me and try to track me down, believe it or not. There are a lot of shi*t aspects to my story, but at least let me keep that, because it's true. Say what you will about him as a sh*t person, but he made considerable effort to try to find me again after all this time. His wife had previously made him delete all my other contact info and when I moved away he didnt have my new work info.

 

He literally did track me down from halfway around the world. He would have no idea where in the world I was from this website he found my one post on. He assumed I was still on the other side of the planet when he wrote to me, because when we stopped talking I had already moved overseas-- he had no idea I was home temporarily in the same city as him.

 

Hope that clears it up so you can stop being so judgmental and nitpicking on irrelevant details.

Edited April 11, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
removed response to poke

[KismetGirl]

It's hard to respond individually but I 'liked' the posts that i thought were kind and helpful for the most part. And to the people who were kind and supportive, please know that your words give me comfort. Even if I dont always take advice given to me, it helps to know that there are benign forces in the world. People with good intentions putting their energy out there to me. It helps much more than those who are angry at someone they've never even met.

 

I thank you to people who actually continue to be supportive. I never did understand the anger and insults that come from some people-- you would think they are somehow having to deal with me in real life on a daily basis. I mean honestly. If you are annoyed by me or my story, why do you bother to read what i write? Just move on. No one is forcing you to read it, right?

 

For everyone else who is being kind...thank you. It is very hard for me. I've had an unbelievably difficult year and a half. Things I have not even included in my posts because I worry they are too specific details to include on this forum, but you cannot imagine the horrible things I have had to endure the last couple of years. Deaths, illnesses are only part of it.

 

I really abhor bringing up the fact that I was sexually assaulted right before I came home last year, but that was also a particularly traumatic situation for me. I don't want anyone's pity. But sometimes the way people attack me on here, it's really abhorrent to think they are so frustrated with me as if they are somehow intimately involved in my life, when in reality they know nothing about me aside from these posts, which are not representative of who I am as a person. You are basically judging me based on things I write when I am very emotional. Things I keep inside from many other people. It is just as likely that that nice girl from your office has as many problems as I've had, but you'd never know it. Because I am the nice girl at the office. I am the trusted professiona, the kind friend, the one people come to for advice. And you-- you know nothing of me but isolated emotional outburts, and you choose to judge me entire personality, life, and basis for the success of my entire live's lovelife history based on this. Trust me when I say I rarely come here anymore unless I am crying and distraught and its the middle of the night and dont know what to do. And just need to vent somewhere.

 

In real life I am an overwhelmingly strong, independent, responsible person. I have a job in which people entrust me with their lives, literally. No one who knows me in real life, who doesnt know what I've been through personally the last year and a half, and who doesnt know my history with MM, could possibly conceive that I've been through any of it.

 

It upsets me greatly that people think my failed relationships in the past have anything to do with MM-- they do not. They failed for whatever reasons that many people's relationships fail. Every relationship is a failure until the last one that isn't, right? That doesnt mean it is all based on my response to one human being, who I spent years not speaking to at times. Some of my exes were jerks, some just weren't the one, and some I am still friendly with. I occasionally pick jerks to date, but I've also dated nice guys that just werent for me in the end. I hardly think its fair or accurate to assume that every relationship I've had in ten years didnt work out because of one person, MM, who I would like to remind people that I often spent months or years not speaking to. I did not sit pining over him when I was in love with other people. When I was with other relationships, some of which went well for a couple of years, I was not concerned with MM at all believe it or not. He occasionally passed through my mind but I didnt sit pining over him and was quite happy at the time that those other relationships were going well. I know I have a lot of posts and its impossible to read everything, but when I dated Michael it was really good for a long time, and when he turned into an a** it certainly had literally nothing to do with MM. When they ended it was for a plethora of reasons that had literally nothing to do with MM. It is easy and convenient for people who know nothing about me to blame every failure in my life because of one person but he does not have such magical powers. He affects me in many ways when I am involved with him, but when he has been out of my life for certain periods, he has often been little more than a passing memory of sentimentality.

 

As it is right now I am vulnerable, hurt, having been through one of the worst couple of years in my life, moving halfway around the world, stressed to tears over job and new licensing procedures and money issues and family issues, and yes, MM found me again. HE found ME. And I was single and he just showed up at the right time and I fell back into it.

 

I am not a bad person for this. Am I weak at times? Yes. Am I selfish at times. Sure. I knowingly make all my decisions, and I know they are bad ones when I make them. I have seen many delusional women write on these boards, and I assure you I am not one of them. Women who clearly believe if they wait around their MM will come to them. I have no such delusions, which is perhaps worse, as I really don't know why I bother because in reality despite hopes and knowing he cares about me, I have little realistic faith that he will ever be with me in a normal relationship. As stupid as my decisions are, I am not delusional about them. I am well aware of them, for better or worse. Perhaps I am just not ready to make the right ones.

 

And in all that time, despite the fact that I make choices that aren't the best in being involved with him, i am only human. I am not insane. I don't go telling his wife things as much as I desperatly want to sometimes and have even daydreamed about what it would be like to ruin his life because he's such a cake-eater. I have been in love with him for ten years and have never even bothered to ask him to leave because what's the point? And maybe I should, as someone pointed out above, so that he can just crush my hopes once and for all and say "never it's never going to happen.". Because usually he uses vague language like "my situation is UNLIKELY to ever change", which means little more than he wishes it would change but knows he'll never do anything to actively change it.

 

I've never disagreed with a single person who told me I should go NC again (and I have gone NC before, ok, but it got broken). Ive never disagreed that he's never going to change, even though I wish he would and I know he wants to. Because I know his priorities are being with his kids, which trumps everything. He loves his W, I have no doubt about this either, as one would love the mother of their children and their friend. He does not love her as a spouse, but again, it's irrelevent. Everything is irrelevant at the end of the day but the end result-- all these arguments about his intentions, why they had sex to get pregnant recently, his reasons for nit divorcing-- everything is moot. I argue because I hate when people assume they know reasons for something more than I do who has known him so long in person. But I don't disagree when the end point which is that he is not going to change. But at least maybe believe me once in a while when I say I know why he does certain things. At least humour me. I'm not deluding myself into thinking that just because he loves me and he's not in love with her he's going to leave. I know he didnt want to get pregnant again last year, but again, it doesnt matter because he's not going to leave. Nothing matters except that nothing will ever change and I need to get out of this situation.

 

But it's not easy. I have gotten out of it before, and I stayed out of it for over 3 years. No one seems to give me much credit for that. I'm insulted and told I'm pathetic and people who have no idea who he even is imply they know better than me why he does things, but at the end of the day I did not talk to him for three years. I could have. I knew his phone number. I know where he lives. But I didn't. Even when I was hurt, going through break ups, feeling down, I held back. But you know what, when an addict has been clean for ten years it doesnt mean that even the strongest person can handle abstaining if they are dropped into a room with a table full of drugs right in front of them. Sometimes when its right there its harder to ignore. He dropped himself in front of me at just the right moment a few months ago and here I am again.

 

That doesnt mean I dont want it to end . i do. I want to be happy. I want my own normal relationship. I want kids. I want everything I cant have with him. And maybe when Im gone again for another year it'll be easier, just as when I was gone for three years it was easier to let go.

 

THis is longer than I intended but again, i wanted to thank those offering kind advice and insights into their own stories-- it really does help me to read them and just wrap my head around your words. Even if I don't seem to heed advice right away, I do listen.

 

To some others-- try to be kinder. You have no idea what some people are going through, no matter how forthright they seem to be on here. Not everyone says everything they are going through, and some people are in a darker place than you can imagine. And sometimes, even when they are making bad decisions you dont agree with over and over, the best thing for you to do is not to insult them, but to simply click 'closed' on their threads and go read another story. That is the perk of an online forum-- you dont have to bite your tongue. You dont have to type a thing at all.

 

Have a good evening all. Too tired to write more. I think this novel is enough for this hour....

[KismetGirl]

Do you have kids kismet girl?

 

...no...why

[Hope Shimmers]

Kismetgirl,

 

I know you are hurting. I know I am one of the people you don't consider to be "kind".

 

However, "kind" hasn't worked for you, has it? You are still in the same place.

 

I am sorry for the difficulties you have gone through. But frankly, you aren't the only one who has had a ton of horribly difficult things to deal with. It's not an excuse to keep on with this guy.

 

When you stop making excuses for yourself, then maybe you will be able to move forward and change things. Only you can do that. It doesn't matter what any of us here think of you or say to you. It's up to you.

[KismetGirl]

Kismetgirl,

 

I know you are hurting. I know I am one of the people you don't consider to be "kind".

 

However, "kind" hasn't worked for you, has it? You are still in the same place.

 

I am sorry for the difficulties you have gone through. But frankly, you aren't the only one who has had a ton of horribly difficult things to deal with. It's not an excuse to keep on with this guy.

 

When you stop making excuses for yourself, then maybe you will be able to move forward and change things. Only you can do that. It doesn't matter what any of us here think of you or say to you. It's up to you.

 

its not an excuse to be with this guy, no. im not using it as such. but it is a reason why ive been particularly vulnerable lately. i was strong enough to stay away from him on my own. i just wasnt able to resist him when he decided to come after me again.

 

i dont think insulting me or calling me pathetic (or anyone) has ever served to help anyone make a better decision.

 

Im not saying my recent decisions are good. Never have. Just need support to maintain my sanity and get back on track. Just because it takes me longer than what someone wants, that doesnt mean it cant happen or i should be judged or called delusional. No?

[Hope Shimmers]

i dont think insulting me or calling me pathetic (or anyone) has ever served to help anyone make a better decision.

 

I don't think I did that. You should ignore anyone who did.

 

Im not saying my recent decisions are good. Never have. Just need support to maintain my sanity and get back on track. Just because it takes me longer than what someone wants, that doesnt mean it cant happen or i should be judged or called delusional. No?

 

I don't judge you. I have no right, as I did the same as you.

 

Yet you are posting here, which means you are reaching out. Which means you are not happy. Which means maybe something I say, or someone else says, will resonate.

 

My A didn't last as long (but 8+ years), but I was in it as deeply as you, so I totally understand. I was engaged to him. I had his child - she died. The pain really just started with that. I got out, and you can, too.

 

Do you want the rest of your life so that you can be with someone who will marry you, make you first in his life, and give you children? Then you only have one choice - get OUT of this. You can.

[anna121]

Kismet, yes, my post was harsh. I am angry FOR you but I admit to also being angry AT you because YOU are the one who is causing yourself such anguish. I did not call you pathetic. I said that situation is. I stand by that assessment. I think at least part of you agrees with me.

 

You like to write ALOT about this experience. Some it is quite detailed. Occasionally I have noticed that, when people rely on those details to point out something, you will swear up and down that is not how it happened. Ok. Maybe it didn't. How can we know? But, frankly, it comes across as a bait and switch.

 

It is NOT an irrelevant detail, either, because you keep repeating it like a mantra and it seems that it somehow has, in your mind, "proved" how much he cares about you.

 

So, he tracked you down. Great. Why, exactly, does that matter? Do you think the effort expended was...significant? Or is that you do best by being in passive no contact, but can't not respond to him when he does? If that is the case, then you will be forever vulnerable and this will never end.

 

What about the fact that he didn't start out by admitting he had a fourth child on the way? That seems just so incredibly cruel to me. Is that an irrelevant detail too?

 

It all, not just the stuff I happened to mentioned, just goes to show what a user he is.

 

But I get it. You are not interested. I will bow out until I have something kind and gentle to say.

[snl]

I can only advise you one thing. Stay away. And I know you will likely not like it. It doesn't matter how hard things are for him and how hard it is for him to end marriage. What matters is you. And you will end up in more and more pain and then suffering if you continue. Don't look for excuses why he can't divorce. One thing is very important. You know what you feel and why you do things but you can't fully know about his true intentions. And they don't matter. In the whole situation there is a fact. He is married and not available to you. That's though what u deserve. I can only wish you would accept and block him out of your life completely. It will hurt. It will suck. But one day you will find someone who will be available to you. Wishing you happiness. You deserve it.

[minimariah]

its not an excuse to be with this guy, no. im not using it as such. but it is a reason why ive been particularly vulnerable lately. i was strong enough to stay away from him on my own. i just wasnt able to resist him when he decided to come after me again.

 

Kismet, trust me... no one is judging you. it's not like the rest of us lead perfect lives and never make any mistakes. no one can judge you, we don't have that right. i'm certainly not going to judge anyone based on the fact that they're an OW. that being said - people on this thread are ANGRY for you, in your name.

 

it's just been too long, sweetheart. life is so short... TOO short. too short to spend it on a dude who isn't making any effort to improve his situation.

 

he has a small child at home, teriffied of leaving. do you really think he'll leave when the kid is THAT small? even if he tries to leave, his W will protest along with his family because the child is still a baby. so do you want to wait the next 15 years until this kid finally goes to HS? in the meantime, his W can go for another baby and be wouldn't say a thing because he wouldn't want her to be suspicious. he has issues, MANY issues.

 

he doesn't know how to handle the guilt, he doesn't realize that the divorce ISN'T the end of a family, it doesn't mean that folks are bad parents. i know many divorce situations where parents split their time 50:50 and they're reuly raising the kids TOGETHER. so it can be done but you have to understand that this won't go as smooth as in maybe other cases where there wasn't no A (or where it remained underground).

 

too many things can go wrong, you know? too many things for you to already plan some kind of future with this guy. let him go. tell him to contact you once he is settled down as a DIVORCED man and that is the only thing you should accept, only situation.

 

protect yourself. trust me when i say this - i know it's hard. we all know. we've all been probably at least once unhappily in love and it's hard when there is some kond of hope because... because, well... you want to be happy. we all want that, that's our purpose... no? we all want love so when someone finally offers it to you, you try to hold on.

 

please, look for comfort in other people... not him. he isn't good for you. you deserve someone who will choose you and be with you. and you deserve to be in an open, honest relationship. don't settle for anything less.

 

i don't think you're stupid or pathetic... but what you're doing right now? your choices? your choices are. there is a small prt of you that doesn't want to get over him. heartbreak is something we all experience and it's not something a human can't get over - however... it takes time + WORK. and you're not doing the real work because you refuse to really let him go.

 

don't waste anymore time being this dude's therapist.

[adna89]

...no...why

 

So will you give up on kids,family for this guy?

[MissBee]

I don't know. I'm not trying to defend him. He's made lots of bad choices. He should have left his wife ten years ago when he realised they weren't a good match. But maybe he was meant to have all those children. But I don't know how to move on. I'm at a loss.

 

I assume when/if I meet someone new it would be easier, but lately that seems a dim option.

 

I'm not even sure why I am writing anymore....I am hurting. i am in pain. All these horrible things that have happened in my life lately and all i want is to feel some sense of peace and the only time I feel that is when he is hugging me like he did today. When he kisses me and makes love to me like he did today.

 

Tomorrow I will see him in the morning to say goodbye before I leave the country again for many months and I will cry. I guess I'm just looking for kind words of support maybe. I don't even know anymore. I wish I knew how to convince him that divorced families can still be happy, but I don't want to be the bad guy either. It has always seemed a cruel joke to keep putting him in front of my face and make him be this perfect for me yet so unattainable. So unfair.

 

 

Hi Kismet Girl,

 

I can relate to how you feel in many ways even though my former A situation wasn't like yours, but some of the feelings and thoughts you've expressed I had felt as well and I'm sure others can relate.

 

Isn't it curious how in most of these affairs MM is "perfect but...." "perfect but unattainable", "perfect except for the cheating..." "perfect if only..." and we feel like this person was created by God for us and we are just perfect together BUT. I felt that feeling, and even to this day, even though I am not with my exAP and don't want to be, in many ways he was one of my better matches. He was a space of comfort for me. The years of A, just friends, open R, all add up to him being someone who in total knew me longer than most others I dated and all of that adds to the "Perfect but..." situation. I will say that, this whole "perfect but" is an illusion, the very fact of the but is all you need to know and what we should focus on as not really perfect or meant to be at all or else there wouldn't be all of this angst and "perfect but..." going on.

 

So many different addictive factors keep us stuck in As: the perfect but illusion, the time spent so you get more and more attached and less available for other opportunities, your own personal issues and crises which lead you to seek comfort in that familiar space, the wishful thinking of perfect but and fantasies of a future when the but is gone and it's just "perfect" and years go by.

 

I won't go into whether or not MM can or can't do whatever it is, I will simply say that, divorce while not easy by any stretch is not impossible or a "can't." It's a choice and he's made his choice, whether valid or not. For me, I don't really see the point of dissecting his choice. He made it, and your life is your own, and you also have to make your own choices. This is with any relationship, even with a single man, he may choose a job, his family, or other things as more important than maintaining the relationship and even if he is "perfect" if those other things come first the sensible thing would be to move forward with someone whose life goals and interests are more compatible with you and take you into consideration, no? So why do MM get a free pass to where their life plans and interests should always come first and they should STILL get to be with you on the side while pursing the more important choices they've made? They shouldn't. If they choose their families, good! Choose them and you should be free to choose something else. Also, MM isn't trapping you, I mean they may lead us on and spill sweet nothings and all the hopes and wishes of "what could be..." or "if only..." and "I wish i met you first..." and all the rest of wishes, but as they say, if wishes were horses beggars would ride! But at the end of the day, you also choose to stay. They choose to stay M and you choose to stay with them.

 

It won't be easy for MM to leave your head. It won't. That's part of what happens when you've dedicated 10 years to an A. Lots of things become idealized, fantasies of perfect but as well as the realities of how attachment works if you've invested emotionally for so long and also use MM as your emotional support...it's a habit....once you feel down you automatically will reach for MM to make you feel better and then so the cycle spins of you then being in his arms, it's so perfect if only...and you do that for a while then get frustrated and want it to end, rinse repeat. For me, that is the most cruel part of As, the fact that once you invest so much, it's not easy to just turn your back on it even though you should and even when you know better. The only thing I can say is that making an active choice for YOURSELF and then deciding to cut him out completely is one of the only ways....you can't do it a little bit. I think that's what many struggle with, thinking they can have a taste of MM here and there and it will be just fine when all it does is dig the hole deeper for you and makes it that harder to climb out. NC in my experience, while not easy and not an over night solution does help you to climb out of the hole and start seeing reality a bit more clearly and gives you more space to move on....but you've done NC...so it's still the fantasy of the what ifs and perfect but that pulls you back in even after years and also seeing him as a place of comfort. I'm not sure how, but finding a new source of comfort seems like one way to get rid of MM because it seems like when life is going well it's easier to leave him alone but when it isn't is when you let your guard down and run to him.

Edited April 11, 2015 by MissBee

[cocorico]

I guess I'm just looking for kind words of support maybe. I don't even know anymore. I wish I knew how to convince him that divorced families can still be happy, but I don't want to be the bad guy either. It has always seemed a cruel joke to keep putting him in front of my face and make him be this perfect for me yet so unattainable. So unfair.

 

KG reading your post I get a real sense that you feel you have no agency in your life. Your posts read like a long litany of stuff that happens to you, leaving you at the mercy of the universe. Even your board name, Kismet - fate - suggests something that is done to you rather than something you choose to do.

 

You speak of the bad decisions he has made - but there is no sense in your posts of yourself as an agent making decisions (good or bad) despite it being clear from these last few posts alone that you went into this with your eyes open. You made an informed choice to 1) respond to his message; 2) speak to him; 3) meet with him; 4) resume the affair, despite knowing - and stating - at every step of the way that it would be a bad idea to do so, given the outcomes that you *knew* would follow. You chose this, in an informed way, knowing where it would lead. You have your reasons for doing so - and I'm not referring to a litany of excuses here, I'm referring to deeper psychological reasons that led you to make those choices knowing it would lead you here, again - and until you confront he real reasons that drive these choices, you will continue to make them, and rue them, and continue to feel life is beating up on you and everything is unfair.

 

Life isn't fair. Life isn't unfair, either. Life just is. We encounter challenges and make choices about how to confront those challenges, and sometimes things work out well for us and sometimes they don't. You need to take ownership of your life, and your choices, and start driving your life in the direction you want it to go instead of hoping that "fate" will deliver you to the destination of your choosing. It won't.

 

You say you wish you could convince him.....etc but you can't. You have no control over anyone else's anything, and hoping to have is a waste of emotion. Make a list of what you can change in your life, and what you want to change, and stop handing him or anyone else the agency. This is a guy you cannot even trust to share critically important information - like, the impending birth of his youngest child - with you; how can you believe he truly has your best interests at heart? Why then hand over the keys to your life to him, when his best interests are so often diametrically opposed to your own?

[Bittersweetie]

I just want to say thank you for the last two posts, by MissBee and Coco, they were excellent and very insightful.

[KismetGirl]

Kismet, yes, my post was harsh. I am angry FOR you but I admit to also being angry AT you because YOU are the one who is causing yourself such anguish. I did not call you pathetic. I said that situation is. I stand by that assessment. I think at least part of you agrees with me.

 

You like to write ALOT about this experience. Some it is quite detailed. Occasionally I have noticed that, when people rely on those details to point out something, you will swear up and down that is not how it happened. Ok. Maybe it didn't. How can we know? But, frankly, it comes across as a bait and switch.

 

It is NOT an irrelevant detail, either, because you keep repeating it like a mantra and it seems that it somehow has, in your mind, "proved" how much he cares about you.

 

So, he tracked you down. Great. Why, exactly, does that matter? Do you think the effort expended was...significant? Or is that you do best by being in passive no contact, but can't not respond to him when he does? If that is the case, then you will be forever vulnerable and this will never end.

 

What about the fact that he didn't start out by admitting he had a fourth child on the way? That seems just so incredibly cruel to me. Is that an irrelevant detail too?

 

It all, not just the stuff I happened to mentioned, just goes to show what a user he is.

 

But I get it. You are not interested. I will bow out until I have something kind and gentle to say.

 

No , on everything else you are saying I totally agree actually. He is a total tw*t for not telling me about the fourth pregnancy when he found me again. I got quite angry at him for it. I just unfortunately did not stay angry enough.

 

Today I sat here just thinking and thinking when I woke up. Wondering what he's doing. He had told me on Friday that he was meeting with a girl he went to school with a couple of years ago-- she works in his field, obviously, and is coming to his organization for some project or some such thing. They never had a PA but they seem to have had something of an EA while I was gone. Subtle but they spoke perhaps more than his wife would have liked even if never became intimate. She is also married and I suspect they commiserated on their married states.

 

Either way I had become illogically jealous when he told me she was coming to his office, no less only a few hours after he and I were to say goodbye before I am leaving the country. I don't know why. I imagine his wife has felt this times 1,000 every time she found out he was with me. I was sitting last night trying to decide if they were going to be flirty or professional and it drove me insane until I woke up this morning trying to tell myself, you know what, it doesnt matter because he isn't my problem and should never be.

 

I have these moments of strength, I think, where I tell myself I hate him and everything he's done to me and how he's a liar and cheater and I mean nothing to him in the long run. I know I mean SOMETHING, I just don't mean enough or anything remotely important. I am just some tool in his arsenal to make himself feel better about himself.

 

I'm sure this girl from his old school program is serving a simliar purpose. Theyll probably be flirty. Hell, maybe in my absence their former EA will go into a PA. He'd probably tell me....or maybe not, since I showed visible jealousy when he mentioned her yesterday. So who knows.

 

Anyway. I hate him. I want to forget about him. Desperatly hoping once I fly away tomorrow that it will become infinitely easier.

 

Not going to say anything to him for now. Not a text goodbye, nothing. Maybe he'll contact me. Maybe he won't. I don't even know anymore.

 

I'm feeling pretty angry this morning. I suppose it's better than sad. More productive....maybe.

[KismetGirl]

I can only advise you one thing. Stay away. And I know you will likely not like it. It doesn't matter how hard things are for him and how hard it is for him to end marriage. What matters is you. And you will end up in more and more pain and then suffering if you continue. Don't look for excuses why he can't divorce. One thing is very important. You know what you feel and why you do things but you can't fully know about his true intentions. And they don't matter. In the whole situation there is a fact. He is married and not available to you. That's though what u deserve. I can only wish you would accept and block him out of your life completely. It will hurt. It will suck. But one day you will find someone who will be available to you. Wishing you happiness. You deserve it.

 

 

I hope so. Because he's really brought me nothing but moments of farce, not happiness....I'm not a religious person, but I swear if I were I would wonder why god or fate or whatever keeps putting him in front of me. Like what's the purpose. I got rid of him several times, for years, and then you put him right there again. Why? To torture me? To show me how weak I am? I mean what's the point. Good thing I'm not religious so I can chalk it up to bad coincidence and a reminder of how I have minimal brainpower when it comes to making decisions regarding him. My only saving grace this year is my decision to extend my overseas contract and get the f**k out of this city again for a while. Hope it will clear my head when I'm sitting on a sunny beach with my friends on my days off instead of wondering about him. I hope.