Chi townD Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Is the fact that is was a black man. ..makes me feel worse...is this bad on my part ?? Probably it is...because I am.not racist one iota. ...but for her to find a black man in this small town... you couldn't make it up....but it's true... No, it's not bad on your part. Hell, she could have slept with a dwarf and little people wouldn't be your favorite group of people right now. It will pass. What SHOULD be more disturbing to you is no remorse on her part and gets angry when you ask questions. Dude, the sooner you get her out the better. Personally, I hate small towns. You might want to think about relocating after the divorce is settled. Move and make a fresh start somewhere new. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Lion Heart Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 She doesn't know where to live....and I can't kick her out on street....?? Oh yes you can! As long as you own the place. No one "has a place to live" until they find one. When she's "on the streets", she'll find one very quickly! She can couch surf if she's got any friends. Who cares where she lives???? This is what Divorce is all about, not owning someone else's problems. This amongst ANYTHING else WW has a difficulty with is simply not yours to deal with. You're just being WAY TOO NICE. And while she's treating you this way by getting angry AT YOU, then storming off, why on earth would you care? She's actually creating this situation AFTER she created very firm grounds for divorce. Does she know the D is imminent? Lion Heart. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Lion Heart Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I am struggling. ... I dint want to look at her every day. . but she is struggling too...and I can't but feel sympathy. .when I see her struggling. .. My friend here commented about her parents. .. ..well her dad died in car crash in Ukraine when she was 15 years. .. often she has compared me to her 'dad' ...in so many ways she says... I'm uncomfortable with this of course... And her saying this to me...was years after her affair...which goes back to 2003 ...!! Drifter. ..I agree with your sentiments..entirely But it's still hard. ... Goodness me Lisbon, you feel SYMPATHY for her?? Why on earth for? I completely agree with drifter for his wisdom ofcourse but it's I also KNOW this from my own experiences. When I left my previous WH I triggered once only. WH was in the car talking with me. I kicked him out the night I found out. I felt anger for a while but from memory it was only 3w or so. Until I'd broken the lease and moved house. It was supersurgent healing. Current WH has left and come back several times. He doesn't have keys but he gets in. Apparently we are in "reconciliation" and have been for 3 1/2 months. The triggering has been crazy! Certainly when we're at home but Mostly when we are out anywhere at all together. It's his face! Any actions just about etc. Legally I can't kick him out but at this stage I've considered selling the house from underneath both of us and the 3 children just to get him out of my life. I know I'll heal faster without him here. You will too. You've just got to do it. Lion Heart. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Author lisbon67 Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 I get where you're coming from totally in your two personal examples... you are only getting trouble and pain from these triggers second time round...The first you were strOngar and more resolute. ..this helped you once he was out. This is what I need to do with my wife... 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author lisbon67 Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 ...thanks for that...its true could've been a dwarf, Asian. , English , Chinese or whatever. .. and I probably wouldn't have them at the top of my favourites list.... We were actually watching 'come dine with me' last night on TV. ...there was a real smoothie black guy on it...and there were lots of sexual innuendo about his 'size'etc... I felt sick and had to leave the room... We are barely talking at all now....and yes...The divorce in imminent.... just waiting for final cert to drop through the door... 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author lisbon67 Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 God...that's got me thinking. ..I was always sure it was over after the night when she stayed at his home after we had had a big fight and he came to collect her...I even went with her next day to collect her overnight bag! This was the first time I met the guy...was around 20th December 2003.... was no more mysterious nights out to see her 'friend ' ...but now indeed..I am wondering maybe it did go on beyond this time...The OM works locally and I work out of town not getting back till sbout 530 each night... Link to post Share on other sites
Author lisbon67 Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 Thanks maz! she's never really opened up and won't discuss her A...but I think you might be right. she has done self harm before and I have called an ambulance for her 3 times....often she has said she "doesn't want to live".....her alcohol problem has got really bad in last five years or so.... Could she be punishing herself directly due to the affair...even tho it happened years earlier in late 2003.... I think you may be right.... I never knew for def about the affair till 2 weeks ago.... but I've suspected it and had it eating me for last 12 years.... she knows this...and I think she knows this is what prevented us having the baby she yearned for.....it was putting me off... she feels pain and guilt for this as well..I'm quite sure 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author lisbon67 Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 Overdoses twice. ..cut wrist once Other times she pretended to have taken pills...to get my fear and attention up Link to post Share on other sites
Author lisbon67 Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 Drifter...aliveagain. ..Lionheart etc advice taken and spot on as usual... well def taken....but whether I have the strength and balls to act on it..Might be a different matter... I still care about her...and she doesn't have many friends here....and nowhere really to go and stay. ..even temporarily... Link to post Share on other sites
Mazerati Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Thanks maz! she's never really opened up and won't discuss her A...but I think you might be right. she has done self harm before and I have called an ambulance for her 3 times....often she has said she "doesn't want to live".....her alcohol problem has got really bad in last five years or so.... Could she be punishing herself directly due to the affair...even tho it happened years earlier in late 2003.... I think you may be right.... I never knew for def about the affair till 2 weeks ago.... but I've suspected it and had it eating me for last 12 years.... she knows this...and I think she knows this is what prevented us having the baby she yearned for.....it was putting me off... she feels pain and guilt for this as well..I'm quite sure It seems to be the likely scenario, and possibly why she is not fighting the divorce too. Regardless, she is no longer your responsibility, and asap you should get her out your life. Again, best wishes Maz 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author lisbon67 Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 Maz... thanks for best wishes. .. maybe her rationale for not fighting divorce. .. ...do you think she has found some empathy at last... and wants best thing for me... many on here previously said she would only disclose suddenly after all this time...for her own ends. ..?? I'm confused guy.... again ! Link to post Share on other sites
Mazerati Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Maz... thanks for best wishes. .. maybe her rationale for not fighting divorce. .. ...do you think she has found some empathy at last... and wants best thing for me... many on here previously said she would only disclose suddenly after all this time...for her own ends. ..?? I'm confused guy.... again ! I dont think it is empathy, perhaps she is self serving. Her reasons are probably selfish, as mentioned. It wasn't for your benefit, but for hers. Did she at long last wake up? Doubtful. Guilt may have overrun her. Who knows. If I had a hunch, the OM was NOT the only one. No proof, but a hunch. Regardless, worry about you and only you. It is not relevant her reasons, what is relevant is you moving on. Maz 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author lisbon67 Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 ....you coukd well be right..Maz...its so hard to tell now... but important think as you say... is to get my own health back... and move on....no matter how hard it will be Link to post Share on other sites
Lion Heart Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Maz... thanks for best wishes. .. maybe her rationale for not fighting divorce. .. ...do you think she has found some empathy at last... and wants best thing for me... many on here previously said she would only disclose suddenly after all this time...for her own ends. ..?? I'm confused guy.... again ! Hi lisbon, I've written on another thread "we judge other's actions by our OWN intentions" Stephen Covey, not me. One very wise individual. His clips on Infidelity are extremely insightful. You may want to search them. Plus George K.Simon,both very worthwhile education for PLU (people like us). You are doing just this. To YOU her actions may be about empathy or anything else YOU would feel if you behaved the same way (indeed if you had done what she's done to you). You have no way of knowing the truth now whatsoever. She's not only proven to you that she's a liar but also a cheat and a person that can maintain deception over a VERY long period of time. A very masterful manipulator. The important thing to remember from here on in is NOT to give her YOUR answers to anything. If and when you DO do this, your digging your own grave to be always kept in the cloud of denial that you created yourself. Ofcourse I am in NO WAY blaming you for ANY of this but quite often, when presented with massive disappointment in our partners, we just WANT them to so much be a person with a better character. A character closer to ours. Sad face. One of the hardest things to accept, in cases such as ours, is that they operate from a different and sometimes OPPOSITE mind set. They have different motivations for their behaviours. I'm sure however you word it, once we see them for who they truly are and not believe a word they speak, we understand the full extent of their world. I've broadly generalized here but it's a situation I've seen repeated over and over again. Fear is a huge motivating factor in characters such as these, not love. Gosh I think you're doing so well. Lion Heart. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Lion Heart Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 I dont think it is empathy, perhaps she is self serving. Her reasons are probably selfish, as mentioned. It wasn't for your benefit, but for hers. Did she at long last wake up? Doubtful. Guilt may have overrun her. Who knows. If I had a hunch, the OM was NOT the only one. No proof, but a hunch. Regardless, worry about you and only you. It is not relevant her reasons, what is relevant is you moving on. Maz WW was drunk when she spilled her guts about her A / OM. Alcohol precipitated her confession. She'd kept this secret for over a decade. I think she's beating herself up for not being able to keep up the charade. Just like other wayward spouses, she is angry at herself for "getting busted" NOT for having an A. LH. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Author lisbon67 Posted April 1, 2015 Author Share Posted April 1, 2015 Hi Lionheart really interesting stuff there in your posts... I hadnt ever thought on this philosophy at all...you said came from Steve post. And I had to read your post a couple of times tbh to really get it...but now I sure do. I am predicting her reactions and actions on what MY intentions would and might be.... yes...I can see this with my wife...probably not any empathy in her finally disclosing after nearly 11 years. I havent mentioned on here before....but she disclosed to me something quite...shocking / unbelievable. ..just in October 2013....and this was also when she was very drunk and wanted me to get her more alchol. We were in Ukraine at the time for her young sisters wedding. She was drinking Ukrainian brandy out of her hand bag....I heard her opening the screw top every time she went to the bathroom. S But she's been absolutely furious since then that she told me her secret. So I think you're right...she's probably kicking herself that she ddayd me about her affair 11 years ago....just 3 weeks ago. Though others on here believe she deliberately told becasue SHE wanted to provoke the divorce. ..not avoid it... cheers LH ...always good to get your advice Link to post Share on other sites
Author lisbon67 Posted April 1, 2015 Author Share Posted April 1, 2015 I will look up Stephen and George for sure. ..are they on here L'S. ..? I agree probably more that she got 'busted' 3 weeks ago...even tho I always knew for last 11 years her ever admitting anything. ... even after her d day. ..She tried to back track. ..deny it all again....then admitted it again...then changed story and frequency of it...ie A STILL not giving me any details....and I'm trying to do the 180...but struggling with this some days Really messing up my head she is even now cheers LH 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author lisbon67 Posted April 1, 2015 Author Share Posted April 1, 2015 Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Glasgow area Posts: 53 I will look up Stephen and George for sure. ..are they on here L'S. ..? I agree probably more that she got 'busted' 3 weeks ago...even tho I always knew for last 11 years without her ever admitting anything. ...and causing it to eat me all this time.... Even after her d day. ..She tried to back track. ..deny it all again....then admitted it again...then changed story and frequency of it...ie A STILL not giving me any details....and I'm trying to do the 180...but struggling with this some days Really messing up my head she is even now cheers LH 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author lisbon67 Posted April 1, 2015 Author Share Posted April 1, 2015 Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Glasgow area Posts: 53 I will look up Stephen and George for sure. ..are they on here L'S. ..? I agree probably more that she got 'busted' 3 weeks ago...even tho I always knew for last 11 years without her ever admitting anything. ...and causing it to eat me all this time.... Even after her d day. ..She tried to back track. ..deny it all again....then admitted it again...then changed story and frequency of it...ie A STILL not giving me any details....and I'm trying to do the 180...but struggling with this some days Really messing up my head she is even now cheers LH Link to post Share on other sites
Mazerati Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 WW was drunk when she spilled her guts about her A / OM. Alcohol precipitated her confession. She'd kept this secret for over a decade. I think she's beating herself up for not being able to keep up the charade. Just like other wayward spouses, she is angry at herself for "getting busted" NOT for having an A. LH. Excellent point Lion Heart!!!! Makes perfect sense. Maz 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author lisbon67 Posted April 2, 2015 Author Share Posted April 2, 2015 Lionheart. .. I have copied and pasted your post number 39..onto my phone...have read it now several times I think this is one I need to keep with me at all times just now... Just last night...she was getting all upset. ..crying etc...quite manic and neurotic really... It's because the divorce is almost completed now...just up to 6 week s for final certificate. Also she was crying because I had been a bit angry with her yesterday morning. .and said something about her affair partner.also she told me that he too had a wife and yesterday said that 'no' at the time of the A he didn't have a wife. I got a bit angry that she keeps changing her tune and her story about WHY it started...HOW it started and the frequency...even trying again to say it was only 'once'....after previously admitting a sexual relationship lasting at least 3 months..twice a week going out to her 'friend ' on average. Anyway as she was so upset and crying last night she was really making me feel the bad guy now...and I was feeling really low about myself because of the things I had said to her that morning which had upset her so much. I even got some messages from her cousin and sister in Ukraine pleading with me to be 'kind' to her. my My wife was crying to me last night 'stop torturing ..with your words'...etc I started feeling quite sick about myself and ended up trying to comfort her...! Then I realised that she was manipulating the whole thing round. ..in that I was now the bad guy who had created this awful situation. ..not her....!! It was now MY FAULT that she was so depressed and upset. .. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author lisbon67 Posted April 2, 2015 Author Share Posted April 2, 2015 Not doing too well at my 180..am.I .??! Link to post Share on other sites
Author lisbon67 Posted April 2, 2015 Author Share Posted April 2, 2015 People ..friends..on here LS ...had talked to me about hitting the 'anger stage '...I had said that I had never really had that feeling or stage since DDAY 3 weeks ago... surely she can't grudge me one morning of anger yesterday. ..I did say some horrible nasty words.... without me feeling the bad guy and somehow my fault for all this. ... Link to post Share on other sites
Lion Heart Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Lionheart. .. I have copied and pasted your post number 39..onto my phone...have read it now several times I think this is one I need to keep with me at all times just now... Just last night...she was getting all upset. ..crying etc...quite manic and neurotic really... It's because the divorce is almost completed now...just up to 6 week s for final certificate. Also she was crying because I had been a bit angry with her yesterday morning. .and said something about her affair partner.also she told me that he too had a wife and yesterday said that 'no' at the time of the A he didn't have a wife. I got a bit angry that she keeps changing her tune and her story about WHY it started...HOW it started and the frequency...even trying again to say it was only 'once'....after previously admitting a sexual relationship lasting at least 3 months..twice a week going out to her 'friend ' on average. Anyway as she was so upset and crying last night she was really making me feel the bad guy now...and I was feeling really low about myself because of the things I had said to her that morning which had upset her so much. I even got some messages from her cousin and sister in Ukraine pleading with me to be 'kind' to her. my My wife was crying to me last night 'stop torturing ..with your words'...etc I started feeling quite sick about myself and ended up trying to comfort her...! Then I realised that she was manipulating the whole thing round. ..in that I was now the bad guy who had created this awful situation. ..not her....!! It was now MY FAULT that she was so depressed and upset. .. Dear lisbon, PLEASE PM me if you want me to respond. I will. It's a compliment you kept that post but believe me, all the credit goes to an incredible human being named Stephen COVEY. His book "The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People" was the book. I think everyone should know this book. It changed my life and I'm now employing his 7 Habits of highly effective Families book to recover my children and myself to regroup us after WH bombshell. Buy the book sure but search online his clips regarding "infidelity". No Covey is not here. He passed. Doubt he would've joined here in the past. YES! It takes days weeks and years to really GET that very simple thought provoking paradigm of his. Just that ONE. I was brief but hoped you'd ponder it. Because it's TRUE. You will find 100s of similar quotes of his that you want to eat all up and never forget. Covey was my hero and I cried the day he died. Get teary thinking our world lost him but thank God he practised and WROTE his wisdom for all of us to learn and grow from forever. George K.Simon is a psychologist. Search his clips too. Now is the time you need to shut your WW out. I'm sorry if anything I say sounds harsh. Man I KNOW you're hurting real bad from all this. I can see the "pennies dropping" as you post. For PLU it's truly mind-f***ing. I'm so sorry. Just as "we judge others...." we PROJECT our thoughts onto others too. This is mentioned many times by ls members. Basically meaning, we saw in our partners what WE felt was the reality. It was actually projection of our SELVES. Too much psycho babble. In a nutshell your WW IS NOT the woman you THOUGHT she was. This is why you struggle now. Once you really GET this. You'll see her for who she ACTUALLY is. You're still resisting maybe. But you know. You don't want to know. But it's like Pandora s box. You know now so you can't UNKNOW that knowledge. This is an interim time. Once you accept how fooled you were (visit chumplady.com for the ridiculous humor in all this) you may feel so let down and blame yourSELF even. I have! But guilt and shame are useless emotions for us. Be done with those. I'll be back! Phones dying! Big hugs. Sorry this has happened. Head high. Shoulders back. You're a survivor. Lion Heart. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
merrmeade Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 This is a straightforward Rx, lisbon:My feelings on this are well known to fellow LS'rs and that is a husband should not try to reconcile with a cheating wife - especially when there are no children. Lots of BH's will try to reconcile for their kids and, if their wife stops cheating and is truly remorseful, some can make it work. But you can never forget and, for that reason, most men can never truly forgive. One of the key reasons for leaving in the wake of d-day and filing for divorce is that once you don't have to look at her every day the healing process is accelerated. You no longer have to wake up and look at her and think "how could she do this to me?" This immediately reduces your triggers and helps you focus on the job at hand - personal recovery. Find a counselor, read books on healing, and your self-esteem and confidence will begin the healing process.. She doesn't know where to live....and I can't kick her out on street....??Sure you can. Besides, She has parents and friends she can move to for a while. You're not her father, you needn't concern yourself with her anymore.If I get angry and ask questions. .she just gets even angrier. ...starts shouting. ..then walks away...Please tell me you're getting maximum frequency IC. It will help a lot with understanding why she does this. Also, if you don't allow the anger, you'll go into debilitating depression as several of us have done. My therapist says depression is just anger repressed. Is the fact that is was a black man. ..makes me feel worse...is this bad on my part ?? Probably it is...because I am.not racist one iota....but for her to find a black man in this small town... you couldn't make it up....but it's true...Oh, good grief, stop this. Of course, it's racist and you'll regret saying it. His skin color is irrelevant and discredits aa's post. This divergence needs to stop here.WW was drunk when she spilled her guts about her A / OM. Alcohol precipitated her confession. She'd kept this secret for over a decade. I think she's beating herself up for not being able to keep up the charade. Just like other wayward spouses, she is angry at herself for "getting busted" NOT for having an A. LH.Get very, very straight, lisbon, that guilt is not remorse and will never create the empathy a betrayed spouse MUST HAVE for healthy reconciliation. It's just guilt and only about her. Everything Lion Heart has to say will hearten you. She's the best. LH reminds me of my daughter who's always instinctively selected situations, actions and had response that mend emotional and physical trauma. Some people have that instinct. To me, LH's white hot anger is like that, which is the takeaway. You and I NEED her unbelievably healthy outrage to remind us we did not deserve being cheated on. You do need anger (1) to act and (2) avoid sympathy for WW. Remember that HER anger is not sympathy for you by any stretch; it's her pride/shame at not being able to divulge. You also need real people in YOUR life that love you and have your back there on ground zero. I exposed the A to my brother only last week, 2-1/2 years after the fact. He was the first live human being after my therapist (whom I just started seeing 3 months ago) to hear my whole story and support me. I cannot tell you the strength it's given me. My daughter gave some support in the beginning but it's not fair to a child. You need your people there with you and you need her gone. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
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