I know I'm crazy for doing this...(Updated)

[georgia girl]

SOiG,

 

 

I am so sorry for your hurt, her hurt and even his hurt (a little bit), but I think you are absolutely right. It's time. Him being in contact with you makes him the man he doesn't want to be for her. That has to be killing his self-esteem. Him not being the man you need him to be is hurting you, to the point that you - like his wife - are willing to accept less and less of him just to have him in your life.

 

 

You guys are really in the messy stuff right now. The ugly, hard and yet hauntingly sad and beautiful phase. Where you have this vision of who you all want to be and a rough idea of what it will take to get there (that's the beautiful part), but neither the will or desire to do it.

 

 

For your sake, you are correct. You have to let go. Heal in private. You are strong, articulate, beautiful and successful. You will process emotions that you can only do on your own anyway. And in the end, you will be a different person - I won't say better or worse because I feel they're unfair characterizations - but a person with different goals and dreams. At that point, perhaps MM and his wife will also be different people and the outcome will be different than the current predicted outcome. But that's no longer your baby to rock.

 

 

My best to you. I have seen you struggle but I think it's time to let go.

 

 

Hugs, GG

[Hope Shimmers]

I can't even fathom any of this. I really think you are continuing to be a wedge to their healing especially given all the personal information he feels the need to drop on you about his wife (which I find appalling actually). It is NOT your place to help him fix himself, his wife, or his marriage. You need to stop being a wedge and end this. He is using you as a complete crutch in every way possible. And you are allowing it. His wife is a shell of a person and the fact you come here and regurgitate everything he has told you about their personal heart to heart conversation is telling. You need to do some of your own self evaluation instead of being all up in their business. Work on you and end this.

 

Actually when you really think about it, he is using you as his own personal therapist while engaging in an affair with you.

 

^^^ This ^^^

 

If I were his wife and had a very intimate conversation with my husband (if I had a husband) and he then went and reported every word to OW who in turn analyzed it on an internet forum, I don't even know what I would do. I would be humiliated, for one thing.

 

You need to stay out of their marriage. I get that you are hurting, and I am sorry about that, but you have no place analyzing this woman, what she needs to do, etc. That is so disrespectful to her that I can't even put it into words. I seriously doubt that he "never" had attraction for her. Her "maturing body"? Really? What is that? You are older than her! She may just get it together and start going to the gym and turn into a real hottie.

 

He said he loves her and that she is beautiful inside and out. Believe him. He ain't going nowhere. You need to move on and stop with this man.

[minimariah]

is he in IC?

 

not MC, but intense IC - with an experienced therapist. he has some MAJOR issues, these are some major problems that need to be addressed. more than working on his M, he needs to work on HIMSELF. his MC is right - he should be quiet about MANY things to his W... jesus christ, can you even imagine someone telling you that they were never even in love with you or attracted to you? can you even imagine someone telling you that they only married you because you were a safe bet? and he knows his W won't leave so telling her and showing her FULLY who he is would be abuse. showing her who he is meaning admitting how wrong he did by her and how much he abused her over the years. no wonder he is scared to let it all out.

 

how did he get to the point that he trusted you enough to have an A with you? especially when you didn't even like him in the beginning. ESPECIALLY when you didn't agree with everything he said and wasn't as supersubmissive as his W.

 

trust issues are actually highly common for an adulterers character but this... to this extent, that he actually married someone just because they were safe? this is pathology. also, the fact that he thinks he is doing right by his W? how? if he knew about her & the way she was raised - why did he even have sex with her in the 1st place? you do realize how disgusting it is what he did to his W and how WRONG he really did her... right? and he excused all of that with his trust issues and her being conservative.

 

listen... living so many years and marrying someone who did NOTHING romantically for you? pure pathology.

 

no, he doesn't love his W. for heaven's sake, he was never in love with her, never felt romantically or sexually attracted to her - Sol, that is NOT love. he cried after they 1st had sex because he was that disappinted, come on! and don't give me the "he loves her as a friend, mother, companion" crap either.

 

he doesn't love her, point blank period. the fact that HE refuses to admit that is just one of many problems he has. to me, what's even worse than the A is him giving you details about his W's intimacy & personal problems and betraying her trust that way. he is sharing informations about HER life without her consent with someone else - not only he doesn't love her, he doesn't even respect her enough to keep her business HERS.

 

polyamory is NOT what you think it is - it means, ROMANTICALLY loving more than just one person and he doesn't have any romantic love for his own W. he is in a relationship with YOU and his W is his friend, someone dear to him.

 

also, his earlier fidelity proves nothing - maybe he couldn't find someone he actually TRUSTS to cheat with. his trust issues are very telling - he cannot trust others because he cannot trust himself/cannot understand how others trust him. this can be due to early trauma that clearly went unresolved.

 

what i don't understand is this - what's in it for YOU? he won't leave, divorce... okay. his W will accept this but she will be miserable. don't delude yourself into thinking this will be polygamy because his W will basically be forced to accept it. so what's in it for you? W will be miserable, he will be miserable because his W is miserable... you will be miserable because he is miserable?

 

for the life of me, i cannot imagine how could you possibly be happy in any type of no-divorce arrangement with this man.

Edited April 18, 2015 by minimariah

[minimariah]

If I were his wife and had a very intimate conversation with my husband (if I had a husband) and he then went and reported every word to OW who in turn analyzed it on an internet forum, I don't even know what I would do. I would be humiliated, for one thing.

 

oh, i was in those shoes.

 

well, i mean... it wasn't discussed on public forums (at least that i know of) but he told her everything about me, our conversations and our intimacy. he told her my personal business that had nothing to do with their A. i actually vomited when his AP tried to tell me how much she "feels" for me and wants to help me (?!?!?).

 

it was the most painful and humiliating thing about my xH's A - the fact that he didn't even love me enough to PROTECT my personal life from an outsider.

 

it's mindblowing.

[minimariah]

I seriously doubt that he "never" had attraction for her.

 

THIS part is MINDBLOWING to me.

 

you cannot possibly be mentally right and MARRY someone you NEVER felt any attraction to. at first, i thought he married her out of guilt but he married her solely because he knew he could trust her - safe bet.

 

like... how did his d*ck even got up if he wasn't ever attracted to her? i just... do men...? how...? i just don't even know. i do know one thing tho - this man has ISSUES. deeply rooted, needs therapist ASAP issues.

Edited April 18, 2015 by minimariah

[Hope Shimmers]

THIS part is MINDBLOWING to me.

 

you cannot possibly be mentally right and MARRY someone you NEVER felt any attraction to. at first, i thought he married her out of guilt but he married her solely because he knew he could trust her - safe bet.

 

like... how did his d*ck even got up if he wasn't ever attracted to her? i just... do men...? how...? i just don't even know. i do know one thing tho - this man has ISSUES. deeply rooted, needs therapist ASAP issues.

 

His problem is that he's a liar. Period. Plain and simple. Can't believe a word that comes out of his pie hole.

[minimariah]

What was important was her wholehearted acceptance of him; not him as a member of his family.

 

and i don't get this part - his W doesn't know him, never knew the real him. so how could he possibly love her because she accepted him for HIM? how could she accept him when she doesn't even know him?

 

also - he says they once had MAGIC. how can you possibly have magic with someone you were never attracted to? this is truly mindblowing to me. how can you repeatedly have sex with someone you were NEVER attracted to? i just... i am so confused.

[minimariah]

His problem is that he's a liar. Period. Plain and simple. Can't believe a word that comes out of his pie hole.

 

listen... he's mentally ill. no way in HELL you could do all THIS for your ENTIRE LIFE and be mentally right. noap.

 

just think about it - having trust issues soooo deep that you refuse to have sex with other women until the "virginal, dumb girl" comes along? not even celebrities do this, lord... then you marry the said girl because she is over there thinking she'll burn in hell because she f*cked before marriage? then you spend YEARS having sex and making children with her and you're not even attracted to her? then suddenly, you have enough trust in someone to have an A with them AND to tell them all of yours & YOUR FAMILY'S business? after all of that mess - you still claim you LOVE your W and you're thinking about polygamy even though you know it will profoundly hurt your W but she will accept it because she is raised that way?

 

jesus. i'm truly speechless.

oh, Freud would have a field day with this dude...

[anika99]

^^^ This ^^^

 

If I were his wife and had a very intimate conversation with my husband (if I had a husband) and he then went and reported every word to OW who in turn analyzed it on an internet forum, I don't even know what I would do. I would be humiliated, for one thing.

 

You need to stay out of their marriage. I get that you are hurting, and I am sorry about that, but you have no place analyzing this woman, what she needs to do, etc. That is so disrespectful to her that I can't even put it into words. I seriously doubt that he "never" had attraction for her. Her "maturing body"? Really? What is that? You are older than her! She may just get it together and start going to the gym and turn into a real hottie.

 

He said he loves her and that she is beautiful inside and out. Believe him. He ain't going nowhere. You need to move on and stop with this man.

 

 

This times a million! It makes me absolutely sick that his wife broke down, revealed all of her pain and insecurities to her husband, showed him her most vulnerable self, and he took that deeply private intimate conversation and immediately shared all of the intimate details with another woman. The woman who he has been deceiving his wife with, the one who has helped him become a liar and a cheat. Oh my God! What a betrayal, what a total lack of respect, what a total lack of integrity on this man's part. I'm not a BS but I think if my husband told his AP all these private details about me, it would destroy me even more than the affair itself. I would never be able to get over that level of disloyalty.

 

 

SolG this man's wife is not a candidate for a polygamous relationship. Anyone agreeing to this out of desperation to keep her man is not cut out for it. This is going to be a big failure. I hope he does talk to her about it though so she can have a glimpse of what he's really like and then I hope she finds her backbone, her courage, her anger and then kicks him to the curb. And as an aside, if her husband has really never been attracted to her than it's no freaking wonder she has body issues and insecurities. That would destroy anyone's self esteem.

[Blu72]

I'm sorry but I don't believe any of the BS he is feeding you about their marriage and about her. And you coming here analyzing every sordid detail he tells you about her and him disguising it as empathy toward this situation is just really sad. Because I really think he has managed to damage you just as much if not more than his wife. You are NOT his therapist, you are NOT his wife's therapist period.

 

Listen I get your pain and I am the last person to judge -

But this has gone beyond crazy. All this discussing/analyzing on here what his wife has told him in private is disturbing. That's if any of it is even true....can you HONESTLY say he is telling you everything without leaving any morsel of the truth out? Doubtful - I don't care how well you think you know him. He even admits he doesn't even know himself. THAT I believe. He has no clue who he is yet he thinks he knows what's best for you and his poor 'pathetic' wife - unbelievable. Make no mistake about it - he has portrayed his wife as some pathetic shell of a person and you came here and pretty much perpetuated that myth, like its not some part of his own doing. She is damaged - because of HIM. You are next on the list.....analyze that.

[minimariah]

He told her that he thinks she's beautiful inside and out and that sexual attraction is not the be all and end all as a measure of love.

 

THIS is a problem - and he somehow managed to convince YOU too that sexual attraction isn't important in marriage or in a romantic relationship.

 

Despite this, he has this sense of marital responsibility and love that makes no sense to me...

 

and this is you figuring it out and realizing that a lot of things he says make no sense whatsoever.

 

He's never going to be romantically or sexually attracted to her...

 

This is what I think will happen. I think they just might have the marriage they should have had a long time ago if they'd been honest. I think they will fall in love.

 

this is a paradox.

 

you don't think he will ever be sexually OR romantically attracted to her but then at the end of this post you say you think they will fall in love? how do you fall in love with someone you were never or never will be romantically OR sexually interested in?

 

when & if she finds out the truth? jesus......... getting back to work and hiring a personal trainer will be the last thing on her mind.

[beach]

He tells her what she needs to hear.

 

He gets what he wants from you knowing full well she doesn't intend to provide in those areas.

 

 

You fill in the gaps for HIM.

 

 

What about you? He hasn't considered your feelings!!! He's using you - only because you allow him to use you.

 

 

He's not leaving her - never will. Do you see any benefit in participating in the future when he's offered you nothing but all HIS needs get met?

 

He's doing what suits him just fine - what are you doing to get ALL your needs met? No one but you is going to look out for your best interest.

 

It's time you start looking out for yourself!!!

[Ronnie33]

He tells her what she needs to hear.

 

He gets what he wants from you knowing full well she doesn't intend to provide in those areas.

 

 

You fill in the gaps for HIM.

 

 

What about you? He hasn't considered your feelings!!! He's using you - only because you allow him to use you.

 

 

He's not leaving her - never will. Do you see any benefit in participating in the future when he's offered you nothing but all HIS needs get met?

 

He's doing what suits him just fine - what are you doing to get ALL your needs met? No one but you is going to look out for your best interest.

 

It's time you start looking out for yourself!!!

 

This is correct.

You fill in all the void in his life and I'm sure he does love you but he will always love you inside the affair. You will never come first and never be more then the OW. Do you really want that? Offering to share him with his wife just to have a part of him while he gets two woman? He is a cake eater to the max.

 

I'm sorry but you have to know you deserve better. No man is worth sitting on the side lines for. I also think it's so wrong that he shares his marital conversations with you. How dare he do that and why would you even want to hear that?

 

It's time to shove that cake in his face and walk way.

[gettingstronger]

Seems like he like to talk about himself- a lot- about his needs, his job, him, him, him.... he does a lot of talking- the only thing I see that has changed since he has been on vacation is now he has his wife involved in talking- about him- his wants, his needs-

 

It does not appear you are any closer to what you want out of this- to be out in the open in some form- an open marriage for them would probably still mean shadows for you-

 

I know you are so hopeful, but I am thinking his ego is so huge and now with two women feeding it, there is no incentive for him to change-

 

He will keep talking- about him-

[beach]

Him sharing that conversation with you would feel like a slap in the face!

 

Was he really trying that hard to tell you in a sneaky way that you will always be #2? It's disgusting that he try to present it as consoling his wife because he's such an honorable person - he's not! He's just the liar that tells his wife that he will never leave her even though she doesn't fulfill his needs. Meanwhile he lies knowing full well his needs get met by you in secret.

 

What a martyr he is.

[beach]

I'm sure his M isn't what he thought it would be.

 

And I'm sure this A isn't what you thought it would be.

 

 

What about ALL of YOUR needs Sol? Why must you put all of your dreams and aspirations on the back burner?

 

He's getting everything he wants - why must you be the one to compromise and settle for half of what you wish for?

 

He's on vacation - with her.

 

Have you ever considered ending it? When is enough - enough?

 

You will get what you dream of having when you let go of what you're settling for.

[neverdonethisbefore]

I'm the last person qualified to offer you advice since i have screwed up spectacularly myself.

 

However i think you should listen to what the others on the forum are saying. They seem to care about your situation and they are offering good advice.

[Sassy Girl]

Stay out of his marriage.

 

What you're doing is incredibly voyeuristic. It's like you're the peeping Tom of their marriage. Can't quite get in there so having a sticky beak from the window.

 

It's not your life. Butt out.

Edited April 18, 2015 by Sassy Girl

[ZiggyZoo]

This dude is just a flat out, grade-A, messed up a*shole. And you act like this whole mess is this grand, doomed love affair that has been woven into your destinies and you are both powerless to stop...It's all BS. All of it.

 

Dig deep, find your self-worth, and tell him to take a hike. You seem to be an intelligent woman, why are you accepting this for yourself? What happened to you along the way that led you to believe that this was at all acceptable? I'm not talking about settling for a MM, I'm talking about settling for someone who has zero respect for any relationship in his life. He resets your boundaries because he doesn't want to be without you. He betrays his wife's trust by reporting their conversations. And of course, he lies to you both. This isn't fair to either of you, but you're the only woman in his life who has the luxury of seeing the whole picture. And yet you continue to stay. Why? Why don't you think you're worth better?

 

Your situation is really no different from countless other womens' on here. They have all left a relationship that was delivering much, much less than they deserved. They went through hell separating from the men who "needed them" too, and had to deal with their boundaries being tested and guys who dropped just enough breadcrumbs to keep them hooked. But they stuck with their belief that they were better than the way they were being treated. You can too, you've just got to do it. Everyone's afraid of pain, everyone's afraid of NC. But do you seriously want to waste your life on this situation? He's not worth it.

[jellybean89]

I'm sure his M isn't what he thought it would be.

 

And I'm sure this A isn't what you thought it would be.

 

 

What about ALL of YOUR needs Sol? Why must you put all of your dreams and aspirations on the back burner?

 

He's getting everything he wants - why must you be the one to compromise and settle for half of what you wish for?

 

He's on vacation - with her.

 

Have you ever considered ending it? When is enough - enough?

 

You will get what you dream of having when you let go of what you're settling for.

 

I'm betting most of what comes out of his mouth is bull. But he's got his OW believing it. Never attracted to his wife, yet marries her and has kids with her? Yeah, poor poor guy.

 

I bet he never had this convo with his wife, but he's got to feed his OW something cause he's ready to move on from her, but doesn't want her to cause a scene nor tell his wife. He's got her believing this poor poor guy is just a victim who just wants to have sexual attraction to his wife, but since he just can't, the OW will do. What really cracks me up is the "he never made love until he made love with me" comments. Is anyone really this guillable? OP, open your eyes. He's got you feeling sorry for him and his wife...which guarantees that you will just go away quietly while he vacations and makes love to his wife. You act like you are so vital to his marriage, since you know, he also doesn't talk to the woman he married, in addition to no attraction with her. He's got you believing every word that comes out of his mouth.

 

Why not call her up and ask her about the baloney he is telling you?

[SolG]

I'm sure his M isn't what he thought it would be.

 

And I'm sure this A isn't what you thought it would be.

 

 

What about ALL of YOUR needs Sol? Why must you put all of your dreams and aspirations on the back burner?

 

He's getting everything he wants - why must you be the one to compromise and settle for half of what you wish for?

 

He's on vacation - with her.

 

Have you ever considered ending it? When is enough - enough?

 

You will get what you dream of having when you let go of what you're settling for.

 

I've thought about this a lot. About what my needs, hopes, dreams and aspirations actually are. This is really easy to answer in every area of my life bar relationships. And every other part of my life is absolutely on track... except for relationships. And by relationships I mean specifically the romantic variety.

 

I thought I had it all worked out when my marriage ended. I never wanted another serious monogomous relationship again. I had a simple relationship goal and philosophy; don't get serious or constrained. All I needed was sex and companionship without complications. Those years were probably the most satisfying ones I've ever had relationship wise. No exclusivity, no pressure, no expectations, no shackles.

 

But obviously I did need something more, or I would never have ended up in this A. I think I was subconsciously craving deeper connection and intimacy and that's what I found here.

 

Objectively, the relationship with MM is just about perfect for me. Highly intimate and challenging (across multiple dimensions), but also not cloying or claustrophobic. I also like not being the basket for ALL of someone elses relationship needs. There is that one big thing though stops it from being just about perfect... And that's of course the lack of openness and honesty for all involved. That's what makes it untenable in the end.

 

In a sense, the A isn't stopping me from achieving anything at all :/ I don't actually need a serious relationship to be complete. But I do think maybe I might like one in the future should someone I'd want one with cross my path. And I do think I'm far better suited to polyamory than monogamy at the end of the day. I am also very bicurious, although have very little experience with women; this also seems to me worthy of exploration. I have a lot to contemplate when it comes to what I think I need, or what my relationships may look like in the future.

 

Thanks for all your thoughts. I'm still mulling over a lot of the other posts here. Busy week coming up and I'll be travelling again. Will write more eventually, when I have time and space to wrap my head around some more things.

[Tullyseptember]

Solg, I get the sense there is so much more to your particular story which is very difficult to respond too as most of which is said to you seems to be grazed over as not being a concern. Or at least I'm thinking there is as both you and the married man seem to be on a whole other level of what you are privy to in regards to his wife. It's almost as if she is not capable of being an adult. it is very sad to read how this woman is disregarded as being capable in any aspects of her own life:(

[velvette]

SolG.......your bull S**T meter should be blowing up. The fact that its not, shows just how masterful this guy is at manipulating you.

 

 

I don't think he had that convo with his wife for a minute. Really? What are the odds on his first day home, after agreeing to shelve discussion of the M she volunteered to listen to the "truth" he is so desperate to share with her?

 

 

Nice story, but that's all it is imo.

 

 

He's spinning yarns to keep you on a string.

 

 

People who don't want you to know the truth can be very good at telling stories to hide it.

 

 

And really all this stuff about his wife being incapable of surviving without him? Whens the last time you met a woman with children who crumpled and didn't take care of her children just because a man left her?

[whichwayisup]

SolG.......your bull S**T meter should be blowing up. The fact that its not, shows just how masterful this guy is at manipulating you.

 

 

I don't think he had that convo with his wife for a minute. Really? What are the odds on his first day home, after agreeing to shelve discussion of the M she volunteered to listen to the "truth" he is so desperate to share with her?

 

 

Nice story, but that's all it is imo.

 

 

He's spinning yarns to keep you on a string.

 

 

People who don't want you to know the truth can be very good at telling stories to hide it.

 

 

And really all this stuff about his wife being incapable of surviving without him? Whens the last time you met a woman with children who crumpled and didn't take care of her children just because a man left her?

 

Respectfully, I don't think she cares that he is. She is getting her needs met and is happy enough with how things are. So it seems.

[beach]

I've thought about this a lot. About what my needs, hopes, dreams and aspirations actually are. This is really easy to answer in every area of my life bar relationships. And every other part of my life is absolutely on track... except for relationships. And by relationships I mean specifically the romantic variety.

 

I thought I had it all worked out when my marriage ended. I never wanted another serious monogomous relationship again. I had a simple relationship goal and philosophy; don't get serious or constrained. All I needed was sex and companionship without complications. Those years were probably the most satisfying ones I've ever had relationship wise. No exclusivity, no pressure, no expectations, no shackles.

 

But obviously I did need something more, or I would never have ended up in this A. I think I was subconsciously craving deeper connection and intimacy and that's what I found here.

 

Objectively, the relationship with MM is just about perfect for me. Highly intimate and challenging (across multiple dimensions), but also not cloying or claustrophobic. I also like not being the basket for ALL of someone elses relationship needs. There is that one big thing though stops it from being just about perfect... And that's of course the lack of openness and honesty for all involved. That's what makes it untenable in the end.

 

In a sense, the A isn't stopping me from achieving anything at all :/ I don't actually need a serious relationship to be complete. But I do think maybe I might like one in the future should someone I'd want one with cross my path. And I do think I'm far better suited to polyamory than monogamy at the end of the day. I am also very bicurious, although have very little experience with women; this also seems to me worthy of exploration. I have a lot to contemplate when it comes to what I think I need, or what my relationships may look like in the future.

 

Thanks for all your thoughts. I'm still mulling over a lot of the other posts here. Busy week coming up and I'll be travelling again. Will write more eventually, when I have time and space to wrap my head around some more things.

 

Ok - well I suppose since you are content with this arrangement then it looks like that's enough for you - for now.