Remorse can sometimes be a buzzkill.

[gettingstronger]

Agreed- we have had some great moments ruined by his remorse-it sometimes bothers me that I am happy and enjoying myself and then have to deal with his remorse-but that is what reconciliation is-working together to rebuild but it can get heavy, very very heavy-

[Mrs. John Adams]

For your sake i hope she gets there. I can tell you for John and i ...it has made an incredible difference in every way. Almost indescribable. Almost like a peace...

 

it has been over 2 years....and it continues to pour out....we can talk in a way we never have....without fear that the other with walk away. and because we can talk....we can share all those fears...all those things i said...all those things i did...all those ugly horrible feelings....and i can lay myself prostrate and know that his forgiveness heals me.

 

Last night we were talking about the om....not my favorite subject because it represents so much evil about ME. At the end of the conversion...

John looked at me with tears in his eyes and he said....

 

He had sex with MY wife...MY wife.....and it feels equal to he murdered my son.

 

Because he took that away....and i can never get it back...and if he murdered my son...i would lose my son forever.

 

and the good part of this story is....I totally understood exactly what he meant...and i understood that i helped in the murder.

 

My om could only take what belonged to john because i allowed him to...which means that...I am just as responsible as he is if not more....which means that I am responsible for killing a part of our marriage that i can

NEVER give back...i killed part of my husband...i did it

 

To look at yourself introspectively....and see that you are capable of such a crime is almost more than i can bear...to think that i could do that to my husband...I have no words.

 

I gladly will do whatever i can to heal him...because i can never take it away. I have a life sentence for murder....and i did it to myself.

[autumnnight]

This is just nuts. Evil glee??? Evil? This post is not logical (how can you count or not count a number that you "bet" or conjectured "probably" did something?)and adds nothing to OP's anecdote or the topic. Pure vendetta and for what?

 

Didn't I read an explanation from a moderator that the OW/OM forum was created a few years ago because of this sort of dissension and intrusive carping in the infidelity forum? So why do they come here? To beat up BHs some more while they're down?

 

You know, you are right. I could have supported his compassion and love for his wife without the other stuff. I apologize to the OP and anyone my post might have triggered.

[Confused48]

Remorse is like air, you never give it a second thought, unless you can't get any. Then it suddenly becomes vital. Example, written to my WS at some point in the past:

 

To recap the parts of this morning that I am sure of: You said you were sorry about last night. After a bit of back and forth, you said you had taken "Rx" (Rx=medication that can have the side effect of producing anger.) I expressed some relief that it was the cause, not the real you. You then said, you were sorry again and with great emotion. Such that I thought I needed to ask, "again for last night?" You then burst into tears and said, "I'm sorry for everything."

 

I took that to mean you were thinking about the affair. I was very touched. Still am. I know you say that you apologize for it often, which I dispute, but even when you do say something that is in the form or wording of an apology, I sometimes do not feel it. It is more like you know that you should say it, I expect it, so you do say it. Today I felt it like you meant it. Thank you. If that is indeed what you meant to say.

 

Pathetic excuse for remorse, I know. But hey, when you can't get any, you take what little you can get.

[autumnnight]

Remorse is like air, you never give it a second thought, unless you can't get any. Then it suddenly becomes vital. Example, written to my WS at some point in the past:

 

To recap the parts of this morning that I am sure of: You said you were sorry about last night. After a bit of back and forth, you said you had taken "Rx" (Rx=medication that can have the side effect of producing anger.) I expressed some relief that it was the cause, not the real you. You then said, you were sorry again and with great emotion. Such that I thought I needed to ask, "again for last night?" You then burst into tears and said, "I'm sorry for everything."

 

I took that to mean you were thinking about the affair. I was very touched. Still am. I know you say that you apologize for it often, which I dispute, but even when you do say something that is in the form or wording of an apology, I sometimes do not feel it. It is more like you know that you should say it, I expect it, so you do say it. Today I felt it like you meant it. Thank you. If that is indeed what you meant to say.

 

Pathetic excuse for remorse, I know. But hey, when you can't get any, you take what little you can get.

 

I was struck by this, especially the phrase "I'm sorry about everything". You know, I think many of us cannot bear to apologize correctly. I grew up surrounded by people who almost never said "I'm sorry." If they did, it looked like this:

 

I am sorry you were hurt over X (sometimes there was no reference to the X). It's just that/I just (insert justification or reason I caused it here).

 

When I was in high school, I went to a youth revival thing, and the teacher talked about remorse and true apologies. He said "Even if the other person is 90% wrong and you are 10% wrong, you are accountable for your 10%, and it is not your job to convict them of their 90%." He even gave a "sample":

 

I have realized that I was wrong when I (be specific), and it hurt/disrespected you in (insert way). I am truly sorry. What can I do to repair the relationship? He said we needed to examine ourselves and only ourselves.

 

I decided to begin doing that instead of what I grew up with, and boy was it hard at first. It's humbling. You don't get to keep score. You don't always get the satisfaction (yes, let's be honest) of them feeling as bad as you do. You don't get to dictate anything except your own remorse.

 

Even murderers in prison who are interviewed often say "I'm sorry it happened." IT didn't HAPPEN, they chose to murder someone.

 

I began sincerely apologizing to the people in my family that way from that day forward. Know what? Not one of them has ever responded in kind. And I'll admit that anytime I encounter someone somewhere who, no matter how you lay out your pain or a point, is incapable of seeing anything except their own view, or who will not apologize for a hurt but will actually just get meaner, I go right back to those days.

 

So yes, I agree that what your spouse showed was kind of a pathetic excuse for remorse. But it speaks well of you that you are trying to see the progress anyhow. ((Confused

[road]

Last night we were talking about the om....not my favorite subject because it represents so much evil about ME. At the end of the conversion...

John looked at me with tears in his eyes and he said....

 

He had sex with MY wife...MY wife.....and it feels equal to he murdered my son.

 

Because he took that away....and i can never get it back...and if he murdered my son...i would lose my son forever.

 

and the good part of this story is....I totally understood exactly what he meant...and i understood that i helped in the murder.

 

My om could only take what belonged to john because i allowed him to...which means that...I am just as responsible as he is if not more....which means that I am responsible for killing a part of our marriage that i can

NEVER give back...i killed part of my husband...i did it

 

 

 

Your BH and you need to learn that there is a time to stop talking to each about the affair. All you and your BH do by still rehashing the past is to continue to cause each other pain. I am sure that you two never cover any new ground when talking about the affair.

 

 

Once a BH has had all of his questions answered. And, there is the need to re-ask the same questions over and over, slightly changing the question to see if the answers are still the same and no new info is revealed. Then the BH can feel secure he has the truth.

 

 

After that point talking about the affair for years afterwards only serves to inflict pain.

 

 

You both need to stop bringing each other to dark places. You need to spend your golden years happy as possible. That is not done going to dark places. That is not quality us alone time.

 

 

Time for your BH to man up and stop being a victim. He chose to stay married. Then he has to stop punishing you if he loves you. Husbands job is to protect his wife. Making her feel pain is not doing his job.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now this does not mean that you two should not post on LS to help other WS's/BS's. That is different then the both of you constantly airing out your dirty laundry with each other.

[JohnAdams]

 

You both need to stop bringing each other to dark places. You need to spend your golden years happy as possible. That is not done going to dark places. That is not quality us alone time.

 

 

Time for your BH to man up and stop being a victim. He chose to stay married. Then he has to stop punishing you if he loves you. Husbands job is to protect his wife. Making her feel pain is not doing his job.

 

 

Now this does not mean that you two should not post on LS to help other WS's/BS's. That is different then the both of you constantly airing out your dirty laundry with each other.

 

Thank you for your concern and you make a good point. I would not say we rehash it in an interrogative way. We are both able to discuss it in a calm way. Unfortunately, it is and always will be a part of our lives. We certainly do not discuss it in a threatening manner.

 

Sometimes the threads on LS will generate conversation. We did have a pretty deep conversation last night. Yes, is invokes sad feelings, similar to discussing a death of a close family member.

 

I do not think eventually reaching a point where the affair is not discussed at all is completely healthy. To forget history increases the chances of repeating.

 

It is certainly not healthy to continually play a blame game or to throw it up in an argument, which neither of us do.

 

We want to help people get over this devastation and hopefully not make the mistakes we made and to hopefully reach a point of complete remorse much quicker. Doing that does generate thought and conversation.

[road]

 

I do not think eventually reaching a point where the affair is not discussed at all is completely healthy. To forget history increases the chances of repeating.

 

 

 

We want to help people get over this devastation and hopefully not make the mistakes we made and to hopefully reach a point of complete remorse much quicker. Doing that does generate thought and conversation.

 

 

 

 

A WS and A BS will never forget what happened. Though it is one thing to trigger and briefly remember then the memories fade as quick as they came.

 

 

We can not control triggers. It is all together different to reclaim these memories on purpose.

 

 

Also helping others is not the same as you and your WW rehashing what was done. A BH should not want to be the source of his WW's pain for something that was done 30 years ago.

 

 

Yes the affair can not be undone. Though it need not be redone in your minds on purpose.

 

 

It is a fine line you not rehashing your marriages infidelity and helping others with theirs. Though just because that line is very thin and very hard to see. Which makes it very easy to cross that line. That does not justify crossing it.

[merrmeade]

Your BH and you need to learn that there is a time to stop talking to each about the affair. All you and your BH do by still rehashing the past is to continue to cause each other pain. I am sure that you two never cover any new ground when talking about the affair.

 

Once a BH has had all of his questions answered. And, there is the need to re-ask the same questions over and over, slightly changing the question to see if the answers are still the same and no new info is revealed. Then the BH can feel secure he has the truth.

 

After that point talking about the affair for years afterwards only serves to inflict pain.

 

You both need to stop bringing each other to dark places. You need to spend your golden years happy as possible. That is not done going to dark places. That is not quality us alone time.

 

Time for your BH to man up and stop being a victim. He chose to stay married. Then he has to stop punishing you if he loves you. Husbands job is to protect his wife. Making her feel pain is not doing his job.

 

Now this does not mean that you two should not post on LS to help other WS's/BS's. That is different then the both of you constantly airing out your dirty laundry with each other.

Whoa, this kind of talk turns off any possibility of getting through, road. Making judgments just isn't helpful. Anyone says to me "you need to stop" anything, I'm outa there.

 

I almost forgot who's side you were on for a minute (just kidding! -no sides, Mrs. A). But I mean, really. Who are you to tell them when to stop talking? How do you know about their "golden years"? How do you know these are even "dark places" for them? Why do you assume they "inflict pain"?

 

And telling Mr. A to "man up and stop being the victim"? That whole paragraph is just gross and sexist.

 

I mean, THEY are not complaining or asking for advice, so why do you give it? It just so doesn't matter what you or I think about how or how long the Adams talk about her affair. It's not their or even her thread, so if they're not asking to be fixed, why do you think you need to try?

 

I mean, you gave the standard for when enough's enough yourself: "Once a BH has had all of his questions answered." So who are you to judge whether "there is the need to re-ask the same questions over and over, slightly changing the question to see if the answers are still the same and no new info is revealed"? It's the judging from the internet that's so incredible. YOU just don't know when the "BH can feel secure he has the truth," when he or the next BH reaches that moment. It's presumptuous.

Edited March 12, 2015 by merrmeade

[badkarma2013]

I think too that some people are not wired for remorse.

 

And I do not mean by that they are psychopaths. I mean, in the most respectful way, that some people do not have the skills, or perhaps the desire to go too far down some paths which will require them to face themselves as they have NEVER EVER faced themselves, NOT because they are necessarily narcissitic, or lack empathy, or mean, or selfish, but simply because

 

to go there would destroy them psychologically and they do not have the resources to make that journey.

 

I teared up reading this....THIS IS ME....what happened to me..I simply did not have the resources to go "Down that Road"

 

In some sick way ..Within the parameters of MY systematic destruction of everything and everyone remotely associate with my WWs Affair..I some how managed to hang onto a thread of sanity and with help ,I saved Myself..

 

I could not face what she had done and and??? maybe your right i could not face myself and what I had become..

 

All of us here ,have a good idea of what we can live with...and I Knew I could not and would not live with her choice...Badkarma

[merrmeade]

Thank you for your concern and you make a good point. I would not say we rehash it in an interrogative way. We are both able to discuss it in a calm way. Unfortunately, it is and always will be a part of our lives. We certainly do not discuss it in a threatening manner.

 

Sometimes the threads on LS will generate conversation. We did have a pretty deep conversation last night. Yes, is invokes sad feelings, similar to discussing a death of a close family member.

 

I do not think eventually reaching a point where the affair is not discussed at all is completely healthy. To forget history increases the chances of repeating.

 

It is certainly not healthy to continually play a blame game or to throw it up in an argument, which neither of us do.

 

We want to help people get over this devastation and hopefully not make the mistakes we made and to hopefully reach a point of complete remorse much quicker. Doing that does generate thought and conversation.

So, hey, Mr. A. I just went on record, challenging road's harsh criticism of yours and Ms. A's remorse fests, and kind of regret it now. She was wrong but not for the reason I gave. You clarified why you do it — "to help people." It's as patronizing as she was judgmental and all of us are tj-ing.

 

Anyway, all of it sort of proves OP's implied assertion that there is a point when remorse diminishes in importance to the BH. Funny. Your explanation kind of reinforces that point. You and TTB both are convinced of it in your spouses, so you're able to post these reflections after the fact.

 

Kind of nice to know it happens. Beacon of hope and all that....

[Mrs. John Adams]

Conversations in the hot tub often start out with something we read on love shack today. It normally does not get heavy...we talk about the comments people make or the situations they may be in...or some of the personalities.

 

We have known Road a long time....so we tend to let what he has to say slide...nuff said

 

I personally feel as long as the lines of communication are open and we discuss how we feel or what we think...we remain healthy.

 

It is when we stop talking that trouble usually slips in.

 

I feel relationships are continually changing because life changes. It is never a bad thing to discuss things...to open your mind...to learn more about each other. Even though we have been married 42 years..there are still things to learn about each other.

 

Talking is never bad....even about sad things. Sometimes the release is needed to heal the wound.

 

Infidelity wounds deeper than any other thing in a marriage..it never goes away. I will do everything in my power to heal us...whether it is answering questions...or discussing something i said....it becomes healing. Sometimes TEARS are healing....

 

Each of us handles our infidelity the way we see fit. If you want to handle yours by no longer discussing it...then that is what is right for you. but it is not the way we choose to handle ours and i don't need blessing or permissions.

 

Apologies for remorse fests and patronizing and certainly for being judgmental. Apologies for Thread jacking.

[merrmeade]

Conversations in the hot tub often start out with something we read on love shack today. It normally does not get heavy...we talk about the comments people make or the situations they may be in...or some of the personalities.

 

We have known Road a long time....so we tend to let what he has to say slide...nuff said

 

I personally feel as long as the lines of communication are open and we discuss how we feel or what we think...we remain healthy.

 

It is when we stop talking that trouble usually slips in.

 

I feel relationships are continually changing because life changes. It is never a bad thing to discuss things...to open your mind...to learn more about each other. Even though we have been married 42 years..there are still things to learn about each other.

 

Talking is never bad....even about sad things. Sometimes the release is needed to heal the wound.

 

Infidelity wounds deeper than any other thing in a marriage..it never goes away. I will do everything in my power to heal us...whether it is answering questions...or discussing something i said....it becomes healing. Sometimes TEARS are healing....

 

Each of us handles our infidelity the way we see fit. If you want to handle yours by no longer discussing it...then that is what is right for you. but it is not the way we choose to handle ours and i don't need blessing or permissions.

 

Apologies for remorse fests and patronizing and certainly for being judgmental. Apologies for Thread jacking.

this is so nice.

[Noirek]

I don't ever like it when people compare infidelity to losing a child (or raping a child for that matter). It seems really selfish. Children are so precious that their death shouldn't be compared or used as an example for anything.

 

Besides that, OP, Have you thought about telling your wife how you feel about this incident?

[DKT3]

I don't ever like it when people compare infidelity to losing a child (or raping a child for that matter). It seems really selfish. Children are so precious that their death shouldn't be compared or used as an example for anything.

 

Besides that, OP, Have you thought about telling your wife how you feel about this incident?

 

So, we have several BH's here who not only were cheated on but found that kids they thought were thiers were not.

 

How can you quantify their pain through your eyes?

[Noirek]

So, we have several BH's here who not only were cheated on but found that kids they thought were thiers were not.

 

How can you quantify their pain through your eyes?

 

I don't feel their pain has to be quantified at all nor do I feel it should be. Finding out a child isn't yours in the case of aliveagain was a death in some ways because he lost his Son. That cannot be compared to anything. I don't believe the person who compared his wife's cheating to having his son murdered had his son murdered so I don't think he really can or should make such a comparison. The pain of anything is a personal thing that cannot be measured. But children are such precious things in our lives I feel it is disrespectful to them to hypothetically compare their death to a betrayal of trust.

 

I only have read alive agains post where he discovered his child is not his. Are there more currently posting.

Edited March 13, 2015 by Noirek

[RightThere]

Thank you.

 

The two years thing... man, let me tell you. At the 2 year mark I was ready to throw in the towel. I was like Sylvester Stallone in Rocky IV when Apollo is getting his ass whipped by the Russian dude, and ROcky SWORE he wouldn't throw in the towel no matter what!

 

I had the towel IN MY HAND AND HELD UP ready to throw it in. She just didn't get it, and wasn't understanding why I couldn't simply move on. PLUS she was still sugar coating things despite the mountain of evidence I had given her proving that I can acccept a horrible truth much more easily than an easy lie.

 

But I held on to that towel, and luckily I held it long enough for something in her to click.

 

Anyway, I tell you all that, just to let you know that I understand what it's like to struggle for that long, and I don't blame you one bit for deciding it was long enough. I still wonder how I made it through that crap.

 

This is where I'm hoping to get to. My WW still can't be truly remorseful. She's sorry (not because she got caught) but not actually remorseful, because it would involve too much of looking at herself.

 

My towel is always in hand. Things do get better as time goes on, but we are still missing that "A-HA" moment, for both of us.

 

1 1/2 years from D-Day, but a lot of false reconciliation built into there.

[TrustedthenBusted]

This is where I'm hoping to get to. My WW still can't be truly remorseful. She's sorry (not because she got caught) but not actually remorseful, because it would involve too much of looking at herself.

 

My towel is always in hand. Things do get better as time goes on, but we are still missing that "A-HA" moment, for both of us.

 

1 1/2 years from D-Day, but a lot of false reconciliation built into there.

 

not for nothing, but for us, I think what lead to my wife's a-Ha moment was my returning to my normal state of happiness and nonchalance. I had kind of found an inner peace with things, and accepted that I got all I was likely to get in terms of information, so I just focused on being happy and spending my time doing things I like with people I love.

 

My guess is that seeing me sort of move on from it was actually a bit hard for her. Maybe the drastic ride from the pool of misery was what she needed in order to actually recognize how deep the misery was. or....you know....something like that.

 

In either case, my life started getting better at that point, BY CHOICE, and hos only gotten better since. Good luck!

[velvette]

I guess I have a different take on remorse. To me and as expressed by others remorse requires both empathy and a certain sense of shame over what you have done to hurt someone else. Once you have those feelings, the next step should be growth which promotes action.

 

 

The action is what is important to me. And, once you use remose/shame to reinvent yourself into someone who is taking the correct action to avoid hurting other people, I don't think it is necessary to hold onto the remorse/shame. In fact, I think especially holding onto the shame or expecting someone else to is toxic. Shame is toxic imo.

 

 

I don't know if its because of my H and my unique circumstances, but it would be too close to the toxic shame he operated under for years related to being sexually abused as a child. Nothing good came of that.

 

 

I don't want him feeling that. And having him feel that way and talking about it constantly would make me feel every bit still a victim of his rapist. No doubt I was a victim of his rapist, but I am not nor do I want my H remaining a victim and constantly feeling shame the rest of our lives.

[RightThere]

not for nothing, but for us, I think what lead to my wife's a-Ha moment was my returning to my normal state of happiness and nonchalance. I had kind of found an inner peace with things, and accepted that I got all I was likely to get in terms of information, so I just focused on being happy and spending my time doing things I like with people I love.

 

My guess is that seeing me sort of move on from it was actually a bit hard for her. Maybe the drastic ride from the pool of misery was what she needed in order to actually recognize how deep the misery was. or....you know....something like that.

 

In either case, my life started getting better at that point, BY CHOICE, and hos only gotten better since. Good luck!

 

Thanks. We are well past my "needing information" stage. She was checked out of the marriage for a long time (and so was I to a lesser extent). Getting her fully checked back in is not where I need it to be.

 

It sucks because we are both in much better shape than most "let's stay together for the kids" type relationships, but I think we're both looking at the other seeing a towel in their hand wondering if and when they'll throw it in.

 

You are totally right however. Someone recently said to me that I needed to focus more on my own happiness. Which got me to soul searching because for a long time now, I don't know at all what makes me happy. Time with my daughter is a given, but outside of that I feel like I'm just existing.

[RightThere]

I guess I have a different take on remorse. To me and as expressed by others remorse requires both empathy and a certain sense of shame over what you have done to hurt someone else. Once you have those feelings, the next step should be growth which promotes action.

 

 

The action is what is important to me. And, once you use remose/shame to reinvent yourself into someone who is taking the correct action to avoid hurting other people, I don't think it is necessary to hold onto the remorse/shame. In fact, I think especially holding onto the shame or expecting someone else to is toxic. Shame is toxic imo.

 

 

I don't know if its because of my H and my unique circumstances, but it would be too close to the toxic shame he operated under for years related to being sexually abused as a child. Nothing good came of that.

 

 

I don't want him feeling that. And having him feel that way and talking about it constantly would make me feel every bit still a victim of his rapist. No doubt I was a victim of his rapist, but I am not nor do I want my H remaining a victim and constantly feeling shame the rest of our lives.

 

That is an interesting take, because there was sexual abuse and plenty of shame that came along with it that my WW experienced. Which is why I can understand her lack of true remorse is I'm sure the overwhelming shame that will likely come along with it.

 

But trying to convince someone that the shame isn't a bad thing, and that I would not use it as a token of power to hold over her is a hard pill for her to swallow.

[velvette]

That is an interesting take, because there was sexual abuse and plenty of shame that came along with it that my WW experienced. Which is why I can understand her lack of true remorse is I'm sure the overwhelming shame that will likely come along with it.

 

But trying to convince someone that the shame isn't a bad thing, and that I would not use it as a token of power to hold over her is a hard pill for her to swallow.

 

 

I think part of the reason I feel the way I do is that I too was a rape victim, but as a young adult. I made a conscious choice to cooperate with my rapist to survive. Intellectually, I knew then and now that that is the choice all rape victims face and that either choice is ok, but the shame of that choice rather than fighting haunted me for many years.

 

 

I know how hard it was for me to get past that and the impact that had on my life. I can have empathy, but really cant imagine how hard it is for my husband especially as an adult male to get past the shame of going along with a rapist who groomed him and threatened him and his family if he told when he was only a child.

 

 

I don't want him to live with that shame anymore or even come close to it anymore. What he did in our marriage is all tied up with that shame.

 

 

I don't need him to go there to prove anything to me. I am sure he did go there more than once and revisiting it with a therapist helped him to grow and change how he treats me. That is enough for me.

 

 

If she hasn't already, the best thing for you wife and you imo would be for her to deal with her sexual abuse with an individual counselor who is experienced with victims of sexual abuse.

[RightThere]

If she hasn't already, the best thing for you wife and you imo would be for her to deal with her sexual abuse with an individual counselor who is experienced with victims of sexual abuse.

 

I don't believe she has explored it fully with a counselor. She's been open with me about all that has gone on in her past, but on a few occasions she has mentioned she can't go down that path for fear of having a total meltdown. We don't talk about what goes on in any individual counselling sessions she's had. Her choice.

 

I won't push it, because I know she doesn't have to tools to deal with it. But it then leaves other overhanging things in our marriage.

[velvette]

I don't believe she has explored it fully with a counselor. She's been open with me about all that has gone on in her past, but on a few occasions she has mentioned she can't go down that path for fear of having a total meltdown. We don't talk about what goes on in any individual counselling sessions she's had. Her choice.

 

I won't push it, because I know she doesn't have to tools to deal with it. But it then leaves other overhanging things in our marriage.

 

 

I don't really know how to answer this, because I don't know if you are selling your wife short by saying she doesn't have the tools to deal with it.

 

 

In my case, I was not aware of my H past so it wasn't a question of insisting he go there or not. I simply insisted he resolve his issues in a way that I believed I was safe letting him come home and remaining married to him.

 

 

I cant honestly say what I would have done if I were aware he had been abused as a child. I think I would have insisted he get help.

 

 

That being said, it is a walk through hell and it requires a very skilled counselor. I think if your wifes counselor is aware of this abuse and has not gotten her to go back and deal with it, then perhaps she is not the right counselor.

 

 

I also think you are within your rights to push her to deal with this for her sake as well as yours. I think your wife does have the tools to deal with it, because she was likely a normal person with normal tools for dealing with things before whatever happened to her happened.

 

 

I also think since this is affecting you and you marriage, that you have a right to know what goes on in her counseling.