Reaching the end of my rope

[duckrabbit]

No dichotomy there was no depth, love or bad mouthing. The only apparent guilt on her part was gone after the second week.

[jbrent890]

I get what T&D and Be Strong are saying but my point is this, why fight for someone or something that doesn't want to fight back? T&D you are a much better man than me. Kids or no kids, if my wife told me that she needed to take break from something that she brought into our lives, I would give her that and then some. R is hard enough. It's even harder when you have a WS that doesn't want to try. But you are right Be Strong, I think the vast majority of WWs waver, mourn the AP too much, and let their depression stop them from actually trying. I also think that's why the vast majority of BHs leave.

[whichwayisup]

No dichotomy there was no depth, love or bad mouthing. The only apparent guilt on her part was gone after the second week.

 

So how were things before her affair?

 

She is depressed but she is using her depression to her advantage. She's not taking care of herself by choice, she's not on meds, is she? I assume not. She's not seeking counseling (anymore) much. Her depression now vs before the A, how different is it?

 

Or maybe she's always been a selfish person and now you're seeing her for who she truly is.

[sandylee1]

I suggest you sit her down for a talk. Explain how you feel, explains what you need from her and that you are giving X amount of time to see her show true remorse and put the effort into R, otherwise you will be filing for D. You specify she needs to get back into IC, and her failure to not do so is sending you a clear message of what her priorities are.

 

Only give her the ultimatum if you are serious about it and will follow through. Otherwise you will loose any respect and she'll not take you seriously.

 

She should be eternally grateful you have given her the gift of reconciliation.

[cgiles]

I agree with sandylee1 , if you place the divorce on the table, you must be ready to fill it if she refuses to work on R.

 

But stop to focus on your WS. Focus on yourself.

 

Start to implement the 180.

 

You said you have issue with boundaries, so read "no more mr nice guy" by robert glover. It's a book about boundaries, and to everything related to them.

 

Work on yourself, for yourself.

Exercice, join a gym, it will be good for you daily, after 45 minutes of exercices our brain releases relaxing stuff in our body.

 

Get your duck in row.

 

Once your ws will see you are not longer granted, she will certainly react.

[fellini]

I agree with several posters here that 3 months is possible not enough time for someone to internalise all the issues that need to be internalised.

 

My WW had exactly the same/similar response to STD testing as you seem to suggest. She continually resisted me and resisted me. But she also suffered from depression and panic attacks previous to her A, and after, when one of her doctors needed to monitor her heart over a period of weeks I suggested that she tell him "about what had been going on" in case it influenced her personal health. What's the point of having a doctor monitor your heart if you aren't going to tell him you have been living 18 months in a EA/PA with a co-worker and juggling a family? Maybe the panic attacks were in response to something he should know about?

 

Her response was it was none of his business. Nor was it the business of other doctors who were prescribing the anti-depressants to her that were shutting down dopamine production... And finally, about 20 months past DDAY she comes home and tells me she now understands the health risks that she took for STDs through her PA! Why now? Because her students did a presentation on sexually transmitted diseases, it's prevalence, and how it spreads. No amount of discussion with her husband of 19 years could persuade her to act, but a group of university students in 5 minutes could.

 

My point is that my WW wanted, has always wanted, and will continue to want to keep the entire infidelity as closed and internal as possible. She has begun to understand the gravity of what she has done on an important level only recently. At 3 months she was still "connected" emotionally to her AP, even though she wanted nothing more to do with him "ever". At 8 months still having problems with her triggers and thoughts. But he was the last thing she wanted and needed in her life. Her level of NC has been extraordinary considering they work in the same building. So it is not necessarily about the AP and what happened there.

 

It may be about her personal issues, about her loss of dignity, about trying to find something worthwhile about herself to hang on to. It might even have NOTHING to do with you. She is, as you put it, a broken woman.

 

Other than her general behaviours, I personally see no need to ask her to jump through special hoops to "prove" anything. You need to repair yourself, she needs to repair herself. I suggest that we not link repair to "want back into an A" because unless you have clear evidence of that, you are putting your repair of yourself on her, and that isn't going to work for you in the long run.

[JS84]

You really need to start playing some hardball. She's not doing any heavy lifting because you're giving her absolutely no reason to (no consequences).

 

Like someone else said you need to file for divorce (no need to talk to her about it ahead of time, either have her served or have the papers drawn up and give them to her to sign) and start the 180. Don't threaten or give her ultimatums (especially ones you aren't sure you will actually back up when you make them). Simply act.

 

She's disrespected you in one of the worst possible ways a spouse can and you've done very little to get any respect back from her. And even if you can't get any respect from her, at least have some for yourself.

 

It takes two people to make reconciliation work, but especially on the part of the Wayward spouse. What you have doesn't even sound like reconciliation, you just sound like you're in limbo and your wife is along for the ride.

[No Limit]

You will never successfully reconcile with a spouse that's not remorseful.

[Friskyone4u]

Duck

 

Just because you file does not mean the divorce wil occur. What it will do is put her on notice that the rug sweeping and refusal to be "all in" is not going to cut it. This shut down is probably because she is more sorry you caught her than she is remorseful. You can rest assured that if you allow her to just stonewall you that it can very well happen again.

And do not be surprised if there isn't secret e mail account . She shows no signs of wanting to do anything but get you off her back.

[LifesontheUp]

You will never successfully reconcile with a spouse that's not remorseful.

 

Agreed.

 

Perhaps its me, I don't know. I get that the process takes time, but why does the betrayed have to go through this while having to wait for the wayward to get out of the fog?

 

Quite frankly the wayward, if they are truly remorseful and want to work at fixing their marriage and repairing the damage should be doing EVERYTHING they can to help their betrayed H/W?

 

Perhaps some have more patience than me IDK, but I just couldn't do it. Why sit there while the wayward mourns the loss of their AP - god thats a real kick in the face IMO.

[jbrent890]

Agreed.

 

Perhaps its me, I don't know. I get that the process takes time, but why does the betrayed have to go through this while having to wait for the wayward to get out of the fog?

 

Quite frankly the wayward, if they are truly remorseful and want to work at fixing their marriage and repairing the damage should be doing EVERYTHING they can to help their betrayed H/W?

 

Perhaps some have more patience than me IDK, but I just couldn't do it. Why sit there while the wayward mourns the loss of their AP - god thats a real kick in the face IMO.

 

I wish it was possible to like a post more than once. This is so spot on. Even if it isn't mourning the affair partner, when I hear things like the wayward not getting a STD test because it's none of the doctors business, I can't help but think to myself wow you just really don't get it. More importantly, you have to wait for something like this change. F@ck that noise man. If the Wayward chooses to stay in the marriage that they destroyed, then they need to be doing whatever it takes to fix it and not take their sweet time doing it. It's almost as if the wayward thinks they are doing the BS a favor by staying in the marriage. To me, all that emphasizes is the point that they really don't want be there. Guilt and shame is the glue that is keeping them there. Personally, I have too much pride to put up with crap like that. Can't get an STD test because you are too embarrassed, give me a break.

[sandylee1]

I have to say, refusal to get std tested in itself would cause me to file for D, assuming that the A in itself didn't.

 

That's like saying, 'your health doesn't matter to me and my shame to get tested tops how you feel'.

[Bittersweetie]

Duckrabbit,

 

As a fWW, I have to say that things overall don't look positive. At 3 months from d-day, I was doing all I could. I was in weekly IC. My H and I were talking weekly about the A, the aftermath, our relationship, where to go from here. I was reading books about infidelity, marriage, relationships, self esteem, etc. I'd done my STD test, thrown out clothes I wore while with xOM. And even more on top of that.

 

Yes, maybe it is going to take her a bit to fully realize what she has done, or maybe she is just so paralyzed by fear to take any steps forward or anywhere. Regardless, you have to make the choice that is best for you and your family. I think the 180 would be a good start.

 

Good luck,

BSW

[badkarma2013]

I was about to go off on one of my infamous rants....However restraint is called for today...

 

Of all the post on this thread,NoLimits put it the best: You will never have a successful Reconciliation ,if the WS is not remorseful ....

 

 

PS I have not seen many Bhs recover..but for R to take place the above is a must..

[BetrayedH]

Agreed.

 

Perhaps its me, I don't know. I get that the process takes time, but why does the betrayed have to go through this while having to wait for the wayward to get out of the fog?

 

Quite frankly the wayward, if they are truly remorseful and want to work at fixing their marriage and repairing the damage should be doing EVERYTHING they can to help their betrayed H/W?

 

Perhaps some have more patience than me IDK, but I just couldn't do it. Why sit there while the wayward mourns the loss of their AP - god thats a real kick in the face IMO.

 

I also agree that this post is spot on.

 

The BH was thrown in the trash and instead of getting himself out, he's patiently waiting while his wife thinks about whether she'd like to help.

 

This devalues the BH both to himself and to his wife. I suspect she'd have more respect for you if you made it clear that unacceptable behavior will not actually be accepted.

[Friskyone4u]

The best way WW out of the so called fog is to knock her out of it.

It will linger for as long as YOU tolerate it and don't take controlled your life and tell her she is free to join you or sign the papers .

[Clay]

I am always biased on this. It was due to years and years of being that guy waiting for my xW to love me again. My last year with her I think something inside me just broke. It just came down to me asking myself what the hell am I doing. I just could not find a way to save our marriage. I could not stop her from seeing the damage she was doing to me and the kids. No matter how hard I worked on showing her the attention and love I just could not do it anymore. Not everyone reaches that point at the same time. Some people do feel more self worth and put a stop to the abuse early on. I had children involved and it just killed me that they would not have both of there parents.

 

I know its hard OP but you just have to decide when you draw the line in the sand. I read somewhere that people always look at what they already have invested and fear they will loose that. The guy writing the article came back and said you already lost it. Your just not ready to accept that fact yet.

 

I hope you find your path soon.

 

Clay

[duckrabbit]

Thank you again to everyone who has responded. There has been some great advice and I definitely plan on taking it to heart.

 

 

It saddens me to think that filing for D might be the only way to wake up my WW. If that is successful, it seems to cheapen any effort she might put forth after such a hypothetical situation takes place.

 

 

Question about the 180: how does one go about this without coming across as a total ass? I know what some of you might say about her deserving to be treated as such, etc., but I am wondering this for the sake of our kids. I don't want to create enmity or hostility. Right now, I am the one who does the brunt of the childcare although I do work outside of the house as well. Does this mean I should neglect some things around the house in the hope that she will pick up slack? I've read the articles and just am looking for some concrete tutorials on what the 180 might look like. Thanks!

[whichwayisup]

You don't have to be mean or rude about it. Be honest and speak from your heart.

 

"I love you, but I love myself more. I can't do this anymore, so as painful as this is, you need to leave and figure yourself out." Or something along those lines.

[Friskyone4u]

The 180 is for YOU to help you detach. It is not meant to win her back. I think you can 180 once you decide . You have been at this long enough.

See an attorney, find out your rights and what reality will be, calmly tell her what you need and expect , do not threaten , and if you get no response, present the papers to her and tell her you will be happy to withdraw them if she decides to join you on this hard journey.

[JS84]

You don't have to be mean or rude about it. Be honest and speak from your heart.

 

"I love you, but I love myself more. I can't do this anymore, so as painful as this is, you need to leave and figure yourself out." Or something along those lines.

 

I wouldnt even say that. The I love you stuff anyway. Youre trying to be indifferent. Not mean or not loving. Think of Spock from Star Trek. Treat her like a co-worker you dont associate with much at work let alone ouside of work. The 180 is to help you detach. Not win her back. Sometimes that can be a positive result of the 180 but it's not the goal nor ahould it be.

 

In your case you need to file simply because youve done too little for a bit too long. A common mistake but acting sooner rather than later tends to be much more effective.