Is "skinny fit" an unrealistic goal for most women?

[USMCHokie]

Which look are you referring to? The super skinny, or the fitness model skinny?

 

I don't see a whole lot of women with abs in the media, outside fitness specific media. I think a woman would have to be very into the fitness culture to hold that as a goal. Most women prefer a softer look as ideal (17-20% bf maybe).

 

Personally, since having babies, my belly won't lay perfectly flat unless my bf is quite low. I definitely have a hyperfocus on this tiny spot and need to get over it, because the rest of me looks better with a little more softness.

 

Which sex are you referring to? For men, I feel fitness model slim is the new "ideal," while there is a significantly wider range of "ideal" for women. So for women, the disparity comes from the misconception that weight training will turn you into the Incredible Hulk...and so women are very reluctant to train and get to fitness model skinny. Instead, they waste hours on the treadmills and homogliders and get to some sort of spongey slim...

 

And you're right, childbirth definitely makes a huge difference...

[xxoo]

Which sex are you referring to? For men, I feel fitness model slim is the new "ideal," while there is a significantly wider range of "ideal" for women. So for women, the disparity comes from the misconception that weight training will turn you into the Incredible Hulk...and so women are very reluctant to train and get to fitness model skinny. Instead, they waste hours on the treadmills and homogliders and get to some sort of spongey slim...

 

And you're right, childbirth definitely makes a huge difference...

 

I disagree that fitness model slim (in a woman) is the ideal for most men. I still see men preferring softness and curves, but with a flat stomach. It usually seems to be that men prefer more curve (fat) on a woman than the typical woman prefers on herself.

 

Which, again, makes it all the more unlikely that women will make the lifestyle changes necessary for that level of fitness. There is little reason for them to do it.

[Phoe]

I don't think it's unattainable, given there aren't any serious circumstances preventing it (healthy issues, etc.)

 

When I'm at my best with my routine, I'm at 19% bodyfat. And my routine isn't anything insane, nor is my diet.

 

When I'm doing absolutely nothing and putting in zero effort, I bounce up to 23%. This is typically what happens in the winter when I'm more likely to be lax on the gym and be eating more (thanksgiving, christmas, big meals).

 

Then January comes and I naturally start eating my usual way again, my gym routine gets back on track, and I get back to 19%.

[Maleficent]

I think it's funny that they used the head of that thinning hair guy with the odd ear on about 4 of the men examples!!

 

lol at least there is obvious change.

[USMCHokie]

I disagree that fitness model slim (in a woman) is the ideal for most men. I still see men preferring softness and curves, but with a flat stomach. It usually seems to be that men prefer more curve (fat) on a woman than the typical woman prefers on herself.

 

Which, again, makes it all the more unlikely that women will make the lifestyle changes necessary for that level of fitness. There is little reason for them to do it.

 

No no. I meant men want to be fitness model slim themselves...not prefer women to be fitness model slim...my previous post was from the perspective of what men and women wanted their own bodies to look like...

[xxoo]

No no. I meant men want to be fitness model slim themselves...not prefer women to be fitness model slim...my previous post was from the perspective of what men and women wanted their own bodies to look like...

 

Oh, yeah. That's true.

[thefooloftheyear]

Most guys, around here anyway, would like to have some size...maybe not full jacked type of size, but some size....especially in the chest, shoulders and arms..Once they realize its either never going to happen, or its too much work, they then default to being lean and ripped(again, at least thats what they hope for)....

 

I still contend its a much better look for a woman to have some muscularity if they are going to be pretty lean..Some muscle enhances the look of a woman's ass, hips, legs, and torso...Not too many guys like the look of the woman in the first photo....She looks too much like a teenage boy, in terms of body type...

 

.02

 

TFY

Edited January 21, 2015 by thefooloftheyear

[Imported]

I'd bet a dollar that 95% of people, nay 99%, in the gym are there for aesthetic reasons. Media and popular culture has made that look appealing, so people, men in particular, will make it a goal to achieve that look.

 

 

I think 85% of them are lifting to impress other guys, either with the poundage or size. Not saying they're gay, it's just a habit many guys get sucked into. Call it competition if you want, but it's still a guy lifting and trying to get big..... to impress other guys. I think lifting hard, eating for growth, adding more poundage and always improving on it can be addictive. It's just a methodical process that will give results as long as you put in intensity and are not genetically cursed.

 

They say some women get all fancy dressing up and applying make-up....for other women. This is what some men do with getting big muscles.

 

 

The majority of women really don't go for that though and I am in fact working out to be attractive to women...as well as overall general health and well being. Although it's diffinitely not just for women, nor purely just for aesthetic reasons.

 

I like being able to swim and run at a fast pace for a good distance as well as pull my own body weight+++. I think it makes me more capable physically in a multitude of situations over being able to ......bench press a lot of weight. Also, the body that results from it seems to get me blowjobs from girls pretty easily. Win Win. We all have our addictions.

[Imported]

Most guys, around here anyway, would like to have some size...maybe not full jacked type of size, but some size....especially in the chest, shoulders and arms..Once they realize its either never going to happen, or its too much work, they then default to being lean and ripped(again, at least thats what they hope for)....

 

 

 

TFY

 

My approach to how I workout goes kinda like this.

 

• How much do I have to be able to lift in order to break bones?

 

Not really that much actually if I know what I am doing.

 

 

 

• How fast and for how long must I be able to run to avoid being eaten by a lion?

 

Just faster than the people that never train running for speed and distance, so pretty easy.

 

 

• How far must I be able to swim and tread water for if I were to find myself in a survival situation in the middle of the ocean because I flew on an airbus and/or an Asian airliner?

 

I need to be able to swim away from people that don't know how to swim and will drag me down with them and then relax/tread water indiffinitely. Very doable.

 

 

 

And it's a balancing act between that.

[Ninjainpajamas]

I think 85% of them are lifting to impress other guys, either with the poundage or size. Not saying they're gay, it's just a habit many guys get sucked into. Call it competition if you want, but it's still a guy lifting and trying to get big..... to impress other guys. I think lifting hard, eating for growth, adding more poundage and always improving on it can be addictive. It's just a methodical process that will give results as long as you put in intensity and are not genetically cursed.

 

They say some women get all fancy dressing up and applying make-up....for other women. This is what some men do with getting big muscles.

 

 

The majority of women really don't go for that though and I am in fact working out to be attractive to women...as well as overall general health and well being. Although it's diffinitely not just for women, nor purely just for aesthetic reasons.

 

I like being able to swim and run at a fast pace for a good distance as well as pull my own body weight+++. I think it makes me more capable physically in a multitude of situations over being able to ......bench press a lot of weight. Also, the body that results from it seems to get me blowjobs from girls pretty easily. Win Win. We all have our addictions.

 

No guy wants to or needs to be in the gym to be "skinny/fit"...he might as well be tumbling around the local park doing aerobic yoga and pilates mixed in with a Bruce Lee workout, riding his bicycle to work in his skin tight bike gear which is 25 miles away and swimming across lakes, while reading books on "Spirituality" and whatever the latest trend in that is appealing to women if he wanted to impress just women.

 

But the difference between men and women is men want to look good and get strong for themselves, not just because of some guy in a magazine that's pressured them into the gym because "society" demands he looks sexier...most men want to get stronger with more muscles, and he can do that with just an image in his own mind of how he wants to looks, not because it's going to appeal to the ladies but because it's going to make him achieve an image in his own head on how HE wants to loo and what makes him feel awesome.

 

And then people always ask them why would you get "SO BIG"...these gigantic meat heads that are built like refrigerators...it's because they wanted to, nobody pressure them into that, they didn't look online and ask women if that's the best body type and then go for that, they did it because they wanted it for themselves.

 

A lot of women don't get that though, they think men just work out for them much like what they do to attract men or beat out other women...but if that was the case for men I'd just get my body into the shape of how I looked like when I was 16 years old. Much smaller, skinny-fit with a small waist with bony shoulders and the gay little V on the side of your bellybutton...but for myself, I don't want to look or feel like a boy that's been out of puberty for only a few years or so...sorry if that is "appealing to the "ladies", thinking about what the ladies want won't keep you going to the gym everyday...but anyway, I'm a grown man now and I'm about 45 pounds heavier, so instead of fat I'd rather turn that into muscle. But granted before that I lost about 30 pounds first because that was just all loose padding.

 

Swimming and running are things I enjoyed as a kid, and honestly with my knees running is a bad idea. Swimming is great but having to swim in a pool hall or share with people that might be pissing in it or not showering is no longer something I don't think about...and going to the lake and ocean is not always practical and regular thing, although when I was a kid they called me "the fish" because I could spend all damn day in a pool. I still love to do those things but not on a day to day basis.

 

When I weighed 160 pounds versus my 205 body frame, I'm sorry but it was a breeze doing things with that body weight, I could do an infinite pull-up/chin-ups and push-ups, I remember feeling like a feather...and after that, then what? try that with a 205 frame, it's a whole different world, I'm strong but still feel like a sack of potatoes, the guys that are huge and do body weight exercises, those guys are beasts, that's a tough challenge to pull that off.

 

But I think for a lot of guys it's personal and based on how they want to look.

Edited January 21, 2015 by Ninjainpajamas

[BeatsByDirk]

It's obtainable!!!!

I was 360, strong as hell but fat and my dentist was like "bro, you should get ripped, you ever been ripped... I bet you be hard as F_(&! If you got down to 9%.

In July I jumped into ketosis and I'm about 10 weeks away from being ripped. Finally under 20% body fat at 275... It ain't easy but you can do it in a year if your willing to be in the gym 5 days a week and commit to diet 85% of the time increasing that the further you go.

 

The bodyspace app from the bodybuilding.com website is loaded with fatties that transformed who post their results.

[Elias33]

If one is not willing to give up the processed unnatural foods then yes, it's an unrealistic goal. There are exceptions of course, there are hormonal factors, age and daily activity. Genes well, ectomorph or endomorph, adjust your exercise plan and you will reach that goal. We give genes way too much credit, and often are used as a crutch or excuse, so we feel justified in holding ourselves back.

 

Instead of aiming for the look, one should aim for the health and that is mostly towards an 15 to 18% body fat percentage with women, and 12 to 16% with men, give or take. And whatever you look like, that is going to be a bonus.

 

I know many runners with the physique of the first woman, running makes you lean, especially due to the condition of the muscles, one is able to burn energy far more effectively. My guess is she is eating more than one may think.

 

As for the second model, that is just starvation, that is NOT healthy. Underweight people risk just as many chronic conditions as overweight people.

[Taramere]

Instead of aiming for the look, one should aim for the health and that is mostly towards an 15 to 18% body fat percentage with women,

 

I'm not disputing that 15 to 18% looks good on the young models depicted - but it's not particularly realistic for most women. As to whether it's healthy....well in the following link you'll see WHO recommendations regarding healthy fat percentages.

 

http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/library/blbodyfatcharts.htm

 

It seems that the medical profession and the fitness industry don't always agree on what's healthy. For me, I would always prefer guidance offered by the medical profession. Doctors have far wider knowledge of the human body, its needs, the impact of various environmental factors etc than people who have trained up as fitness professionals.

 

Age also has to be taken into account. 14 - 20% for a woman is what's expected of an athlete. For normal fitness, 21 - 24% is fine depending on age. A woman below 18% body fat is probably going to be regarded with concern by medical experts - though if she's a professional athlete or a model, they will likely accept reluctantly that some health sacrifices have to be made depending on occupational requirements.

 

I mentioned in another thread that a problem I perceive is that a lot of people get into this mentality where they think they have to be at the level of a professional athlete in order to qualify as fit. Those athletes are often paid a great deal of money to be that fit. So are models, dancers and actresses.

 

Most of us are not in those professions. Attending to our bodies and making them reach stringent (not always long term healthy) goals are not part of what we do for a living and are expected to devote vast amounts of our time to. 21 to 24% is absolutely fine for a woman. In all honesty, the majority of women are significantly above those good fitness levels of 21 to 24%.

 

It's down to every individual woman to decide what is realistic for her. What fits into her lifestyle, how much time she's prepared to devote to a getting down to a specific fat level, whether she's prepared to sacrifice other activities that are important to her (or that she just enjoys more) in order to get down to that goal.

 

For somebody who's really quite obsessive about about fitness by most people's standards - yes, it could be a realistic goal. For others who want more of a balance whereby attaining fitness needs to fit in with other activities, it's probably not realistic.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Taramere

[Robert Z]

This looks like a better source. It doesn't claim problems for women until you get below 14% body fat, and for men, below 8%.

http://pennshape.upenn.edu/files/pennshape/Body-Composition-Fact-Sheet.pdf

 

 

Not also that the potentially dangerous low levels don't change as a function of age. But acceptable healthy levels rise. So apparently there is nothing harmful about older people shooting for ideal [Olympic level] percentages.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Robert Z

[Taramere]

This looks like a better source. It doesn't claim problems for women until you get below 14% body fat, and for men, below 8%.

http://pennshape.upenn.edu/files/pennshape/Body-Composition-Fact-Sheet.pdf.

 

It's talking about when phsyical problems relating to low bodyfat set in. There's more to it than that.

 

An athlete may have to have a certain rate of bodyfat to compete at their best. Their body is their job, and if they're a top athlete they're probably under careful monitoring to check that they don't develop any of the disordered eating or behaviour patterns that can become more likely when people become intensely focused on body fat, fitness etc. Female athletes are significantly at risk of developing these disorders

 

https://www.nationaleatingdisorders.org/athletes-and-eating-disorders

 

High awareness is vital for those working with athletes, because people with eating disorders are generally very good at masking the disorder - and athletes are more equipped to do so, on account of the professional demands on them to follow schedules that would be deemed unrealistically (and potentially worryingly) rigorous for the average person.

 

Ms Average, going to the gym and being told by some instructor that she should be aiming for 14 to 18% is, once she gets to that level, quite likely to be at risk if she doesn't have anybody monitoring her.

 

When I say "eating disorders" I don't just mean the obvious one of anorexia. I also mean far more commonplace disorders such as bingeing (often, but not always, accompanied by vomiting). It's not just skinniness that can be associated with obsessive attention to the body. Obesity can be a longer term effect. Both can relate to unusual eating habits and the poor body image that can result in the long term from the sort of obsession about body image that I see right here on this thread.

 

It's just not as simple as saying "with the right exercise regime, you'll get down to athlete levels of body fat and you'll be superhealthy." Often in practice, with the kind of obsessive approach to fitness and diet develops a skewed approach towards one's own body. Faddish eating habits. A skewed notion of what's healthy.

 

I think it's great that we have a section like this on LS, where people can discuss exercise routines, diet plans etc...but this is not a healthy thread. It's not one that pushes people towards the moderation (in eating an exercise) that permits the average person to lead an active and balanced life. This is a thread that embraces the kind of obsessional approach that frequently leads to eating disorders of all kinds. Including the far more common disorder of over-eating which so often kicks in when people eventually abandon the overly rigorous regimes and goals that others insist are realistic for them.

[Imported]

 

Not also that the potentially dangerous low levels don't change as a function of age. But acceptable healthy levels rise. So apparently there is nothing harmful about older people shooting for ideal [Olympic level] percentages.

 

Age is a good excuse, but I think unless you're like 60+ years old....it's just an excuse with no real reason except you got lazy over the years and "OK'd" yourself to not put in as much effort as you can for whatever reasoning you came up with. Most people won't even question it. I say to those claiming age as an excuse.....enjoy the path you have chosen. I will continue on as I was.

 

Metabolisim doesn't slow down as you age. People not mainting lean muscle mass as they age slows down metabolism.

 

Tony Horton is 56 years old. Not bad at all. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Horton_(personal_trainer)

 

Sure, there will come a day, but it's not today or tomorrow or even next week.

 

I still do @ 2 to 3 hours a day (depending on my swimming) working out, pretty much 5 to 7 days a week. I work 8 to 10 hours a day 5 days a week when I am local and 10+ a day everyday when I go out of country for work. There is time enough for me to earn my $$$ to live, workout as I want and go out and socialize......cause I don't watch TV and the highest post count I have on any forum is by far this one. And that is because I have a tablet and can read the forums while taking a ****.

 

People make choices on how to use their time. Some people watch 4+ hours of TV a day and then claim they don't have time to stay in shape cause they are such a busy professional.

 

You know, another way to stay in shape is some exercise and a whole lot of control in the kitchen. Once you figure it out, it doesn't add much if any extra time spent towards staying in shape/slender.

[Robert Z]

It's talking about when phsyical problems relating to low bodyfat set in. There's more to it than that.

 

An athlete may have to have a certain rate of bodyfat to compete at their best. Their body is their job, and if they're a top athlete they're probably under careful monitoring to check that they don't develop any of the disordered eating or behaviour patterns that can become more likely when people become intensely focused on body fat, fitness etc. Female athletes are significantly at risk of developing these disorders

 

https://www.nationaleatingdisorders.org/athletes-and-eating-disorders

 

High awareness is vital for those working with athletes, .

 

 

That is an entirely new argument. You talked about the health risk of low body fat, not eating disorders.

 

That is an eating disorder problem, not a body fat related health issue. They should be adding muscle mass while losing fat. In that event you are probably safe. They real key there, I think, is weight. A low percentage of body fat is great provided that your weight is high enough; indicating plenty of lean muscle mass and a healthy diet.

 

My sb is probably pushing 16% now but she is rock solid - not muscle bound but definitely muscular. I wouldn't want her taking a swing at me! She could do some damage.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Robert Z

[Robert Z]

I still do @ 2 to 3 hours a day (depending on my swimming) working out, pretty much 5 to 7 days a week.

 

 

Damn!!! :bunny: You da man!!!

 

 

Now I feel pathetic and am thinking of how to up my routine!!!

[elaine567]

Anorexia Is Hitting Older Women - obsession with weight and body image can have serious consequences.

Anorexia and bulimia are no longer just diseases of the teenage years.

Women in their 20s-50s are also suffering from eating disorders, due to many factors but including, trying to avoid weight gain in pregnancy or trying to avoid the "middle age spread".

 

Eating disorders in older men are also increasing. Eating Disorders in Older Men ? Research Indicates Prevalence May Be on the Rise

[Robert Z]

Eat well. It's not that hard.

 

 

I suspect a big part of the problem is patience. There is a tendency to rush to a goal rather than taking the healthy path of a good diet and regular exercise. Just eat a balanced diet and count your calories. It's as simple as that.

 

Rather than doing it right, my sister had liposuction. And she wasn't even that fat. She is a great example of how not to do this. She was more worried about immediate results than good health and fitness.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Robert Z

[Taramere]

That is an entirely new argument. You talked about the health risk of low body fat, not eating disorders.

 

That is an eating disorder problem, not a body fat related health issue. They should be adding muscle mass while losing fat. In that event you are probably safe. They real key there, I think, is weight. A low percentage of body fat is great provided that your weight is high enough; indicating plenty of lean muscle mass and a healthy diet.

 

I know what you're saying. What I'm trying to get at is that as long as somebody is moderate in their eating habits, and gets a decent amount of exercise then they're probably going to be fine. The difficulty can set in when they start to set very rigorous regimes and goals. Where exercise is no longer part of what you do naturally every day, but becomes this chore that's almost akin to a second job. So many people just fall by the wayside because they set themselves a schedule that in the longer term they couldn't sustain - or just got fed up with.

 

The French...are getting fatter, but they're still doing a lot better than Brits and Americans. Very few of them use a gym. I spent a few chunks of time in France a few years back, and the general sense I got was of people walking a lot, cycling a lot and not really eating between meals. I have an American friend who's obsessed by fitness. He's in good shape too, as he should be with all the time he spends in the gym. But by God does he eat. Stacks and stacks of food. Of course he burns it all off in the gym - but sometimes people will enter a new phase of life where they can't spend all that time at the gym, or doing physical exercise. Yet they still want to eat as much as they did before.

 

That' why with a lot of these really competitive "ladies, there's no reason you can't be in the same shape as a professional athlete" my heart sinks. Because there are so many people who get to that place of "I must try to get to athlete level" who have at one point had a serious weight problem. And the likelihood is that sooner or later they'll go back to it if they never learn to just have a bit more of a moderate approach to everything.

 

It just seems so clear to me that I don't understand why people can't see it. The modern day obesity problem we have owes a great deal to people losing the art of doing everything in moderation. I don't really care if people on the internet believe I should be between 14 and 18% fat. I'm about 22% and that'll do me just fine. Especially since I live in a cold country. On this competitive, "everybody's a fitness and health expert" section of the internet 22% isn't good enough. In real life, as we all know well, it's vastly better than most people are doing. It just seems laughable to me that people are banging on with the "there's no excuse for women not to look like professional athletes" message in a country where the majority of people are probably more than 30% fat and will remain so because they're in that "given up" category that nobody pays much attention to. All the emphasis is on nagging already slim and fit people into becoming thinner and more fit - instead of just generally encouraging people to have healthy relationships with food, exercise and their own bodies.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Taramere

[Emilia]

I don't think low body fat is automatically a good look for everyone. There are plenty of people that look hideous. It's ridiculous to suggest that there is some kind of a blanket look or solution for everyone.

[Taramere]

I don't think low body fat is automatically a good look for everyone. There are plenty of people that look hideous. It's ridiculous to suggest that there is some kind of a blanket look or solution for everyone.

 

The girl in the picture in the opening post is probably attractive to a lot of people who are heavily into gym culture, because they appreciate the work it takes to look like that. To me, it's not an aesthetically appealing look - and certainly not something I would want to spend hours in the gym working towards.

 

I think most of us want to look like our own version of "attractive" rather than try to fit other people's that we don't really agree with. I don't see that picture motivating very many women.

[Emilia]

I think most of us want to look like our own version of "attractive" rather than try to fit other people's that we don't really agree with. I don't see that picture motivating very many women.

I've never heard a man say he wished his woman looked more muscular. Which is the look of having very low body fat gives you. I go to the gym a lot as you know and it's nice to build a decent ass or whatever but I don't know many people that are into a hard shredded look.

 

Even if they were who cares. It's like people that want to watch pornstars with fake boobs, their taste, they like it, the rest of us can just say no thanks.

[thefooloftheyear]

The girl in the picture in the opening post is probably attractive to a lot of people who are heavily into gym culture, because they appreciate the work it takes to look like that. To me, it's not an aesthetically appealing look - and certainly not something I would want to spend hours in the gym working towards.

 

I think most of us want to look like our own version of "attractive" rather than try to fit other people's that we don't really agree with. I don't see that picture motivating very many women.

 

 

I'm not saying its true of you personally, but when a woman in good shape hears this type of comment, it starts to sound like sour grapes..

 

Guys get it all the time as well.."Id never want to be big...you cant move"....Or "he must spend his whole life in the gym".......All while they look like Pillsbury Dough Boys....

 

9 out of 10, they'd love to have it, but either they cant or they dont have the will to do what it takes to get there.....so they crap on it..Weakest reasoning in the world..

 

I mean, it cant possibly be because they worked harder, or have better genetics than the next person??...Its kinda exhausting at times..

 

TFY