feminists driving men away...video

[Snaggletooth]

...then again, maybe "the beautiful ones" experiment applied to people too... Now I really want to get married and have some children. And live in the countryside.

 

 

John B. Calhoun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

 

The Beautiful Ones experiment was mentioned in the article that went witht e video.

 

I'm wondering, and this is aimed at no person in particular, how many people actually watched the video and read the articles? All they are, are the genuine thoughts and concerns of young men.

 

There has been much defending feminism, a few accusations of men wishing for inequality, but I can't remember a post from a woman that has shown any concern for these young men or any suggestions from feminists here as to what can be done to correct the imbalance and ensure the next generation doesn't face the same problems. Namely a lack of full time fathers, an education system that fails boys, the pathologizing and medicating of boys for natural boy behaviour, the disrespect and belittling that is so prevalent in the media and elsewhere, the unfairness of divorce, the fear of false accusation, and the general fact that society is churning out men unprepared for life.

 

Is there concern? Is there will to correct these things?

[ktya]

Provide evidence for your claim. There is so much misinformation in your posts. It's a hodgepodge of personal victimization, blaming feminists for all the ills of the world, and just made-up "facts."

 

Scouts voted internally to become coed

http://www.scouts.ca/sites/default/files/sl-Celebrating-Ten-Years-of-Co-Ed-Scouting.pdf

 

 

Boy, scouts have changed | Toronto Star

 

You are missing the reason they held the vote in the first place.

[Snaggletooth]

Modern science is only about 100 years old. Madam Curie did her work 100 years ago.

 

 

Emilie du Chatelet (1706 – 1749)

Caroline Herschel (1750 – 1848)

Mary Anning (1799 – 1847)

Mary Somerville (1780 – 1872)

Maria Mitchell (1818 – 1889)

Lise Meitner (1878 – 1968)

Irène Curie-Joliot (1897 – 1956)

Barbara McClintock (1902 – 1992)

Dorothy Hodgkin (1910 – 1994)

Rosalind Franklin (1920 – 1958)

Carolyn Shoemaker (1929- )

I could name many others if I thought about awhile

 

 

I had about 8-10 female science professors in college. So again, this is an issue long dead. So get over it already!

 

 

How about trying this one on for size: Traditionally, more men are interested in science than are women.

 

The other thing is, up until recently most men were denied access to a proper education as well. Working class lads were doing just that, working from a young age. Once they were older they qualified to be cannon fodder. It's not like most men lived a life of privilege and luxury while women were in the kitchen. They were busting their balls, crippling their bodies and getting blown to bits.

[lollipopspot]

You are missing the reason they held the vote in the first place.

 

If that's true, then back up your claim, like I did. Provide sources rather than just spouting off.

[Robert Z]

The other thing is, up until recently most men were denied access to a proper education as well. Working class lads were doing just that, working from a young age. Once they were older they qualified to be cannon fodder. It's not like most men lived a life of privilege and luxury while women were in the kitchen. They were busting their balls, crippling their bodies and getting blown to bits.

 

 

And the work many men did was far more hostile and dangerous than any jobs done by women. In the workplace, men were expendable. And in war, men were cannon fodder.

 

When the Golden Gate Bridge was built, they planned for one death for every million dollars spent. It was just a business loss.

[ktya]

If that's true, then back up your claim, like I did. Provide sources rather than just spouting off.

 

I lived through it missy. And interesting that you dismiss everything i said based on your ignorance of what happened to scouts, which was one sentence in a very long post.

[lollipopspot]

I lived through it missy. And interesting that you dismiss everything i said based on your ignorance of what happened to scouts, which was one sentence in a very long post.

 

In other words, you have no evidence, despite having the whole internet right in front of you.

 

I could have pulled out a bunch of uncredited statements like that in your post but I don't want to spend hours doing it.

[Robert Z]

Has anyone ever read The Jungle, by Upton Sinclair? It was about the meat industry just after the turn of the century. You never knew if good old Joe down the street might fall in a vat and be in your next hamburger.

[ktya]

Sigh.

 

This stuff all happened before the internet even resembled what it looks like today.

 

Did you have the internet in 1994-1998? I did, and beleive me at the time a better way to get the news then was to turn on the television, radio, or pick up a newspaper.

[lollipopspot]

And the work many men did was far more hostile and dangerous than any jobs done by women.

 

Try prostitute or battered wife.

 

Sounds like you're saying you would rather have been a woman back in the days when women couldn't even vote, than a man. That's interesting, and probably untrue, if you think about it. But most people would prefer to have more rather than less control over their lives, and being a female historically meant a lot less freedom.

[lollipopspot]

Sigh.

 

This stuff all happened before the internet even resembled what it looks like today.

 

Did you have the internet in 1994-1998? I did, and beleive me at the time a better way to get the news then was to turn on the television, radio, or pick up a newspaper.

 

Guess what? Even though the internet didn't look the same, the current internet refers to lawsuits from before 1998.

 

In other words, you were just making things up.

[ktya]

Guess what? Even though the internet didn't look the same, the current internet refers to lawsuits from before 1998.

 

In other words, you were just making things up.

 

Whatever. I remember the outrage at the quacky groups of moms demanding that their little girls be allowed into scouts. Go burn a bra.

[Woggle]

I get along great with women for the most part and most of the women I have known like me and I like them. I have been in a room full of nothing but women and I get along great with them.

 

I don't attribute a woman being an a hole to feminism because feminism as it is defined in the dictionary does not promote that but a good number of these a holes hide behind feminism the same way some people hide behind religion. These kind of women actively hide behind it and it drags the movement down with them.

[littleblackheart]

The Beautiful Ones experiment was mentioned in the article that went witht e video.

 

I'm wondering, and this is aimed at no person in particular, how many people actually watched the video and read the articles? All they are, are the genuine thoughts and concerns of young men.

 

There has been much defending feminism, a few accusations of men wishing for inequality, but I can't remember a post from a woman that has shown any concern for these young men or any suggestions from feminists here as to what can be done to correct the imbalance and ensure the next generation doesn't face the same problems. Namely a lack of full time fathers, an education system that fails boys, the pathologizing and medicating of boys for natural boy behaviour, the disrespect and belittling that is so prevalent in the media and elsewhere, the unfairness of divorce, the fear of false accusation, and the general fact that society is churning out men unprepared for life.

 

Is there concern? Is there will to correct these things?

 

 

Addressing your previous post, for lack of a better analogy, I teach at University (nothing to do with either building skills or feminist studies, you'll be pleased to know)- in recent years, I have had to adapt my teaching to accommodate students with various educational / emotional needs who previously had either no access to University or would be at a higher risk of failing without any special consideration; this means countless extra hours of work for me / endless paperwork to read, fill in and reproduce / never-ending new initiatives to look at to ensure all my students have the same access to knowledge. It takes a while and a lot of sleepless nights to work around their needs but I do it with immense pleasure (for the same pay, of course) because I know how much they value it and because without this extra help (from me, my colleagues and the institution I teach at) they would be put at an unfair disadvantage.

 

 

I know it's not quite the same but to put it plainly, yes sometimes gender parity (like any change) is a pain to implement and follow through, yes it requires extra work, yes the excesses this brings may seem ridiculously pointless, yes some of it may still be trial and error, yes (a tiny minority of) women did manage some success before all of this started, yes it would be so much easier if women didn't have to force their way in like bulldozers but these are still transitional times, and these times would move a lot faster if everyone were on board.

 

 

This thread was hotly debated at our Christmas dinner table yesterday and got me thinking about how fresh a lot of the changes still are: my mother was telling me that still only 30 years ago, married women were not allowed to have joint bank accounts as only their husbands' signature was recognised as valid (in France, where I'm from) and single women had to ask their fathers to be signatories for a bank account. That would be unthinkable for me today as an independent adult to ask my father for his input on my personal finances.

 

 

Those changes, like any change, will come at some cost: divorce is expensive for men largely for lack of salary / employment parity, only when 2 high earning parents is shared custody financially viable after a divorce, only 10% of fathers contest custody arrangements: fathers could play a bigger role in their children's lives if they truly wanted to, all the legal tools are there - ask those men who have succeeded, presumably because they are good fathers who understand the drama that will no doubt ensue is worth every bit of it - those men have my outmost respect. More men fighting for the children's custody is one way of redressing the imbalance you talk about. In my case, shared custody was offered to my ex on a golden plate - this would have meant sacrifices in his professional career (which he gladly accepts from me, and to his credit very gracefully acknowledges, being refreshingly fair-minded in that regard) so he refused the offer. Luckily I'm more than happy to give up promotions and tempting fieldwork so I can be the mother I want to be and I'm extremely lucky in that I also find fulfilment in my job as it is, but it's not always the case.

 

 

Reports of boys failing in schools are not new, relatively speaking - many explanations are being given by all sorts of people depending on their bias, and I suspect is, as ever, a mix of things (the introduction of co-education for instance, changes in school curricula which reflect the changes in society - more ICT/ less manual skills, amongst other things) rather than the product of feminism. The author cited in the article you quoted (dating back 2009) is not recognised in education, mainly because he bases his findings on nothing more than what he thinks is happening (no empirical research to back up his claims, in other words).

[lollipopspot]

Whatever. I remember the outrage at the quacky groups of moms demanding that their little girls be allowed into scouts. Go burn a bra.

 

In other words, you were just making stuff up. Suddenly we've gone from "lawsuits" to "outrage of demanding moms." With nothing to back it up.

 

In fact, it was an internal decision, perhaps fueled in large part by fathers who wanted their daughters to learn some leadership skills in that organization too - which from early on had already allowed females in some of its programs, due to the wishes of its founder.

Edited December 26, 2014 by lollipopspot

[ktya]

In other words, you were just making stuff up. Suddenly we've gone from "lawsuits" to "outrage of demanding moms." With nothing to back it up.

 

In fact, it was an internal decision, probably fueled in large part by fathers who wanted their daughters to learn some leadership skills in that organization too - which from early on had already allowed females in some of its programs, due to the wishes of its founder.

 

Nope. Do you even know how a human rights suit works? Maybe start there. I think you need to do a little more reading before you start accusing people of making things up.

[lollipopspot]

Nope. Do you even know how a human rights suit works? Maybe start there. I think you need to do a little more reading before you start accusing people of making things up.

 

In other words, still no evidence for your claims about lawsuits and you were just making stuff up.

[ktya]

In other words, still no evidence for your claims about lawsuits and you were just making stuff up.

 

Yawn. Im not going to waste any more of my time. Ok. The sky is orange.

[lollipopspot]

Yawn. Im not going to waste any more of my time. Ok. The sky is orange.

 

In other words, no evidence for your claims and you were just making stuff up.

[most_distant_galaxy]

There has been much defending feminism, a few accusations of men wishing for inequality, but I can't remember a post from a woman that has shown any concern for these young men or any suggestions from feminists here as to what can be done to correct the imbalance and ensure the next generation doesn't face the same problems. Namely a lack of full time fathers, an education system that fails boys, the pathologizing and medicating of boys for natural boy behaviour, the disrespect and belittling that is so prevalent in the media and elsewhere, the unfairness of divorce, the fear of false accusation, and the general fact that society is churning out men unprepared for life.

 

Is there concern? Is there will to correct these things?

 

As you see, I try to point out that both sexes have it hard. I try not to point out women's hardships or men's hardships.

 

I think that problems for both sexes come from the immense pressure to be "perfect". The world has become very complicated. Every little mysterious detail dissected, sterile life, if-then-else relationships. Ignorance is bliss, but knowledge is power, the question is how much is too much?

 

The thing is that for too many years both gender roles were very specific. Now both are struggling to find their identity. Maybe we should just remember that men will always be physically stronger and able to protect, and women will always carry the miracle of life inside them and have the ability to nurture... Let's start from there, the basics, and then respect both genders. Also we need to stop dissecting every little thing. The world just needs to relax a little bit. Let's all move to the countryside, form small communities and throw a ball with food every Saturday. Let's bury our laptops and phones! Let's get so bored in our homes that flirting and talking with other people in the ball will be an extraordinary and unique activity.... Let's be poor so we only have to think about how to plant tomatoes and how to make our hens produce more eggs... I'm kind of serious. Humanity needs a serious break.

[Snaggletooth]

And the work many men did was far more hostile and dangerous than any jobs done by women. In the workplace, men were expendable. And in war, men were cannon fodder.

 

When the Golden Gate Bridge was built, they planned for one death for every million dollars spent. It was just a business loss.

 

Absolutely, risk of death was a very real aspect of work. Even up to a few decades ago women would not have wanted to be doing men's work. Back breaking, bone jarring and with low life expectancy. Men did not subjugate women away from that, they protected them from the brutality of the workplace. What they asked for at the end of the day was for a bit of grub, some occasional nookie and a clean house. That's after handing over the weeks wages for her to budget and shop with. Not a bad deal, really.

 

Any woman currently complaining about the past would not want to live that past as a man. Of course, the option was there to be a single woman and mine coal if they wanted, I think most preferred not to, though. In 1842 there was a commission that stopped the use of female pit miners. Those wicked men keeping all the work to themselves. Fancy giving women easier, cleaner, safer "man supportive" above ground work instead. As years went on we progressed to the point where women could stay at home. We treated them so bad.

Edited December 26, 2014 by Snaggletooth

[Snaggletooth]

As you see, I try to point out that both sexes have it hard. I try not to point out women's hardships or men's hardships.

 

I think that problems for both sexes come from the immense pressure to be "perfect". The world has become very complicated. Every little mysterious detail dissected, sterile life, if-then-else relationships. Ignorance is bliss, but knowledge is power, the question is how much is too much?

 

The thing is that for too many years both gender roles were very specific. Now both are struggling to find their identity. Maybe we should just remember that men will always be physically stronger and able to protect, and women will always carry the miracle of life inside them and have the ability to nurture... Let's start from there, the basics, and then respect both genders. Also we need to stop dissecting every little thing. The world just needs to relax a little bit. Let's all move to the countryside, form small communities and throw a ball with food every Saturday. Let's bury our laptops and phones! Let's get so bored in our homes that flirting and talking with other people in the ball will be an extraordinary and unique activity.... Let's be poor so we only have to think about how to plant tomatoes and how to make our hens produce more eggs... I'm kind of serious. Humanity needs a serious break.

 

I'd like to do nothing more than that. It's the world I was born into and wish we could return to.

[Tayken]

the silent majority of women are doing a lot better these days,

Yes...the ones that know the value of education, have put themselves through the hardship of shattering that glass ceiling, and making a change in the world in the process....e.g Melinda Gates, Anita Roddick of the body shop etc. Now those are strong women.

 

Not the ones that are just in it for their own selfishness, and aren't doing anything to change the state of things. I usually have a ton of respect for women that don't sit around and expect things to be given to them "just because". Hell...I wish someone will give me things "just because....you want something, develop a killer work ethic, and raise your kids the same way.

 

To some young women, their aspiration is to become the next Kim Kardashian

[elaine567]

- "WHY I'M A...FEMINIST *gasp*"

[lollipopspot]

You lie on your bed as you make it really. I can never be with a woman again that doesn't have post secondary education with a good career....it just doesn't appeal to me one iota.

 

I think that's smart. The legal system is gender neutral - if you are the lower wage earner or unemployed and you are male, you will also get more in the divorce. The problem is that women as a group generally still earn less (that's sexism - and one men ought to fight if only for this reason), and many men are only too happy to mate with underachieving women and make them primary house carers - until the divorce, when they complain bitterly about how unfair the system is. If anyone - male or female - wants to protect themselves from having to pay out more in the event of divorce, then choose someone who is a decent earner too. It's ridiculous to complain how terrible and biased the system is when it's actually not gender biased, and it's clear going into it what the rules are.

 

Now, if someone wants to support a primary child and house carer, then of course they're going to have to help that person financially in the event of divorce. It makes sense and it's no secret. If someone can't figure that out then they're probably not ready for marriage.