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Posted (edited)
Feminism itself does not promote these things but often women who treat men in this manner tend to hide behind it. When called out on their crap they are quick to yell misogynist and talk about how people are afraid of a strong woman. They are not true feminists but they wear the uniform so sadly many people have a hard telling them apart.

 

I've been fortunate to know a number of thriving, actualized women who routinely accomplish their goals and live the life they choose professionally and socially... and one of the most beautiful characteristics that they all share is a focus on connectedness, affirmation and cooperation with everyone they come in contact with. They don't view life as a struggle to overcome oppression. They wake up every day with the intention of helping others realize their potential. They are other-focused, embrace their femininity, love men and women, young and old, for their unique qualities and they meet and accept them where they are (realistic expectations).

 

This is the other side of the coin that Woggle describes. The good ones have transcended the need for feminism, and that is very attractive.

Edited by salparadise
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Posted (edited)
I have no issue with feminists but misandrists who hide behind feminism should be avoided like the plague,

 

 

I think feminism has created entire generations of misandrists; or at least, now three generations of women who treat men with disrespect and consider men's needs offensive or trivial. That is the essence of what got me started posting here at LS. It is the argument I have been making all along. I believe my ex wife was ruined by feminism.

 

It reminds me a bit of the old black Civil Rights fighters from the 60s. They are bitter old men and will remain that way. They can never stop fighting the war.

 

But even worse, it has convinced women that they are all victims of men. We see this theme time and time again and have as long as I can remember.

 

 

My ex's attitude can be summed up in eight words.

Poor me

You owe me

You don't matter

Edited by Robert Z
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Posted (edited)

I would argue that it goes beyond feminism. It is now an attitude that is passed from mother to daughter. It is demonstrated every day in the way women treat their husbands at home, in tv shows, in comedy, and in social media. Again and again the message is to disrespect men.

 

 

I believe it is no coincidence that the sugar baby and escorts businesses are booming.

Edited by Robert Z
  • Like 2
Posted
I've been fortunate to know a number of thriving, actualized women who routinely accomplish their goals and live the life they choose professionally and socially... and one of the most beautiful characteristics that they all share is a focus on connectedness, affirmation and cooperation with everyone they come in contact with. They don't view life as a struggle to overcome oppression. They wake up every day with the intention of helping others realize their potential. They are other-focused, embrace their femininity, love men and women, young and old, for their unique qualities and they meet and accept them where they are (realistic expectations).

 

This is the other side of the coin that Woggle describes. The good ones have transcended the need for feminism, and that is very attractive.

 

 

All of this is true - the actualized women you talk about obviously wouldn't have been able to transcend the need for feminism if it wasn't for feminism in the first place though, which is why IMO, it is important to recognise how much this movement has brought to society - this is not what the title of this thread is suggesting. Feminism isn't a swear word, nor should it be used and abused for any and every wrongdoing a man has been subjected to by a woman, as is so often is the case in this forum, or for a woman to get whatever it is she wants / justify her poor choices.

 

 

As a side note, sometimes being called a 'feminist' like it's an insult just because you happen to think there still is some work to do to bring about gender equality is tiring. Never have I been made to feel like a crazy man-basher in such a way IRL before, where most of the people I talk to and I seem to agree on the topic on those rare occasions it comes up - I must be lucky to have such an accepting, open-minded social circle is all I can think of.

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Posted

Why do we need feminists? Ozzie and Harriet are long dead.

 

 

Isn't the idea itself long out of date? Isn't this now just code for "I have a bad attitude about men?" I think so.

 

 

If women in Africa are being sold into slavery, is this a women's issue or a human rights issue? By saying it's a women's issue, it is implied that men don't care. Well guess what, we do!

 

 

As for this country, we have a Constitution that protects everyone. We don't need a special Constitution for women as well.

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Posted

I have to say that the argument that men single handedly built civilization in a quest for women's approval, and now that feminism is here men have little reason to do this, is frankly insulting. It basically says women never contributed to civilization nor could they ever achieve anything worthwhile when given the chance.

 

I'm not going to argue about the state of the western world but as long as women are still seen as little more than chattel in many parts of the world, in 2014, tells me that feminism is still needed. It's pretty sobering to know that would I have been born in a different part of the world, I would have no rights merely based on my genitalia.

 

It wasn't so long ago in history that rigorous academia, with all that sitting still and classroom learning, was seen as only for boys.

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Posted

The jerks and beta males are causing this surge in the feminist movement. If guys were just themselves, not jerks, but pushed back every now and then they wouldn't be the pawn in a relationship. Instead, they're on Loveshack complaining about how all women are feminist bitches.

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Posted
I'm not going to argue about the state of the western world but as long as women are still seen as little more than chattel in many parts of the world, in 2014, tells me that feminism is still needed. It's pretty sobering to know that would I have been born in a different part of the world, I would have no rights merely based on my genitalia.

 

It wasn't so long ago in history that rigorous academia, with all that sitting still and classroom learning, was seen as only for boys.

 

 

Really, when did Madam Curie do her work and receive her Nobel Prize? She is one of the most famous names in Science.

 

If people are being oppressed anywhere in the world it is as human rights issue. Do we need special men's movements for all of the evils done against men as well? Why do you need segregation? Do you think men aren't good enough to care about women's issues?

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Posted (edited)
The jerks and beta males are causing this surge in the feminist movement. If guys were just themselves, not jerks, but pushed back every now and then they wouldn't be the pawn in a relationship. Instead, they're on Loveshack complaining about how all women are feminist bitches.

 

Then why are men abandoning women?

 

I can draw straight line between feminism and the player movement, as well as the popularity of escorts and sugar babies.

 

 

Players are just the male version of how many women treat men every day.

Edited by Robert Z
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Posted

One woman scientist who succeeded doesn't negate the fact that on average, girls were denied schooling and entry into the scientific world simply because they were girls. Up until very recently in human history, women and girls were denied rights and opportunities afforded men and boys all the time. To deny this is, to me, akin to denying the holocaust or the moon landing.

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Posted
If any of those are men (particularly straight men) the only reason they agree with you is that they've been brainwashed by the endless feminist propaganda in the mainstream media.

 

... or they are secure and confident enough in themselves that they don't feel threatened by women every time they breathe. I'll ask them directly to be sure though...

 

 

There is no such thing as modern feminism - there's either acting for gender equality (that's not exclusive to women, if ever you were interested...) or arguing the toss about irrelevant stuff dressed as feminism, and described as feminism by those who can't be bothered to think for themselves.

  • Like 2
Posted
One woman scientist who succeeded doesn't negate the fact that on average, girls were denied schooling and entry into the scientific world simply because they were girls. Up until very recently in human history, women and girls were denied rights and opportunities afforded men and boys all the time. To deny this is, to me, akin to denying the holocaust or the moon landing.

 

Let not forget minorities (some of who are make and females) are still being denied the same things.....so your point again?

Posted
Really, when did Madam Curie do her work and receive her Nobel Prize? She is one of the most famous names in Science.

 

If people are being oppressed anywhere in the world it is as human rights issue. Do we need special men's movements for all of the evils done against men as well? Why do you need segregation? Do you think men aren't good enough to care about women's issues?

 

Many of the people helping abused and oppressed women in Africa are men. In fact, it could be argued they are the main driving force. It's an area I used to do voluntary work in. I tell you, trying to get a western self proclaimed feminist interested and contributing is a lot harder than getting a dude interested and contributing. 90% of my network on the matter are men.

  • Like 1
Posted
Let not forget minorities (some of who are make and females) are still being denied the same things.....so your point again?

 

My point still stands. There are many still fighting for racial equality in 2014 as well, along with many who deny racism is still a problem; that we are now "post-racist" and the civil rights movement happened and all is equal now.

 

It sounds rather familiar.

  • Like 1
Posted
Many of the people helping abused and oppressed women in Africa are men. In fact, it could be argued they are the main driving force. It's an area I used to do voluntary work in. I tell you, trying to get a western self proclaimed feminist interested and contributing is a lot harder than getting a dude interested and contributing. 90% of my network on the matter are men.

 

 

I concur...as I have done some of that work myself in Western and Eastern Africa. There isn't a unity front within the feminist camp, you have individuals just after their own personal gratification

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Posted

We are post racist.....really, I will like to live on your planet

 

My point still stands. There are many still fighting for racial equality in 2014 as well, along with many who deny racism is still a problem; that we are now "post-racist" and the civil rights movement happened and all is equal now.

 

It sounds rather familiar.

Posted
We are post racist.....really, I will like to live on your planet

 

Not as long as racial violence exists in the world. Same with women's rights .

 

That was my point all along. I look at the entire world, not just America.

 

I sure would like to live in a world without racial violence or women-as-chattel too!

Posted
You sound pretty confident (arrogant) in your post. I wonder where that comes from.

 

What the hell is gender equality then? For feminism isn't it mostly just arguing for more privileges for women without considering the male perspective? Yep... If you want true gender equality then you have a world completely made up of men or completely made up of women. There would be no differences between genders. And I guarantee you this - if that ever did somehow happen there would still be domestic violence...

 

Maybe what you're trying to express is an evolution in gender roles... i.e a definite shift in how BOTH men and women act in SOCIETY. Hopefully the shift will accommodate all, if not most social types.

 

Geddit now?

 

 

So what's happened to this?

 

 

If you're gonna make it a war, make it a merry war and don't be abusive. That's the lesson to take from it as individuals.
Posted
I've been fortunate to know a number of thriving, actualized women who routinely accomplish their goals and live the life they choose professionally and socially... and one of the most beautiful characteristics that they all share is a focus on connectedness, affirmation and cooperation with everyone they come in contact with. They don't view life as a struggle to overcome oppression. They wake up every day with the intention of helping others realize their potential. They are other-focused, embrace their femininity, love men and women, young and old, for their unique qualities and they meet and accept them where they are (realistic expectations).

 

This is the other side of the coin that Woggle describes. The good ones have transcended the need for feminism, and that is very attractive.

 

I agree. Truth be told most successful women I have known are not raging misandrists. Most of them are in happy relationships or if they are single they still get along well with men. Like most bigots the misandrists tend to blame their failures in personal and professional life on another group.

  • Like 1
Posted
Like most bigots the misandrists tend to blame their failures in personal and professional life on another group.

 

Then there must be a lot of bigots in this thread - because I see a bunch of people blaming most of the ills of society and in their personal relationships on "feminism" and women as a group.

  • Like 1
Posted
Then there must be a lot of bigots in this thread - because I see a bunch of people blaming most of the ills of society and in their personal relationships on "feminism" and women as a group.

 

From what I understand of this thread, it's only okay to point out those women who use feminism right, left and centre to justify their poor behaviour, and those women only should be condemned by both men and women - as has been the case, by both men and women, on this thread and others. The men who use feminism as the only possible explanation for the breakdown of their relationship or whatever problem in society are fine as they are apparently - only on this forum in my experience though, thankfully...

Posted
All of this is true - the actualized women you talk about obviously wouldn't have been able to transcend the need for feminism if it wasn't for feminism in the first place though, which is why IMO, it is important to recognise how much this movement has brought to society - this is not what the title of this thread is suggesting. Feminism isn't a swear word, nor should it be used and abused for any and every wrongdoing a man has been subjected to by a woman, as is so often is the case in this forum, or for a woman to get whatever it is she wants / justify her poor choices.

 

 

As a side note, sometimes being called a 'feminist' like it's an insult just because you happen to think there still is some work to do to bring about gender equality is tiring. Never have I been made to feel like a crazy man-basher in such a way IRL before, where most of the people I talk to and I seem to agree on the topic on those rare occasions it comes up - I must be lucky to have such an accepting, open-minded social circle is all I can think of.

 

That's because you jump on the extreme bandwagon, and that is in itself societal programming.

 

In the 7 pages of this thread, nobody has said that equality is a bad thing [quite the contrary actually], but everything that they say against abuse of power, radical feminism, or suggest about a new way of thinking [even the situation presented in the OP] is seen as an attack on women everywhere; it is not.

 

You say that your social circle is foreign to this discussion ... well i have a few theories about that :

- we tend to choose a social circle that validates our opinions; this is why many ppl come to places like this forum to get a more neutral opinion on things

- UK is probably one of the few nations where women's rights have swung past the neutral point of the pendulum, the other way.

I'm Romanian and i have friends in London who work for EU institutions or in IT.

What they tell me from there [and Canada] is ... unbelievable.

  • Like 1
Posted
One woman scientist who succeeded doesn't negate the fact that on average, girls were denied schooling and entry into the scientific world simply because they were girls. Up until very recently in human history, women and girls were denied rights and opportunities afforded men and boys all the time. To deny this is, to me, akin to denying the holocaust or the moon landing.

 

And now they got it.

 

The only places left in the world that are shockingly patriarchic and need the full force of equal rights movement are Africa [and not all of it] and the Middle-East, with Islam being the biggest offender.

Granted, there are some places in South and Central America, Asia, but overall, not as bad as the above ones.

Posted
Then there must be a lot of bigots in this thread - because I see a bunch of people blaming most of the ills of society and in their personal relationships on "feminism" and women as a group.

 

Read again, they blame it on run-amok feminism, not feminism.

 

Feminism at it's core, is not something that men are against; men [all in this thread] are for equal rights ... and that applies to races as well.

 

Some ppl use the fact that in a world of 7b ppl, some still act this way as a cassus belli for continuing massive efforts while waving the carrot of 'it will be better' in front of everyone.

There will always be discrimination, you cannot avoid it; you can however educate the population to be against discrimination and then let society police itself.

Which would also mean that many of the activists would be out of a job, and not have access to the 300+b $ they received from the Obama administration right after the economic crisis [even though the crisis cost mostly men jobs].

 

Without being able to scream 'wolf' all these activists would be out on their asses, in the streets ... and they don't want that.

  • Like 1
Posted (edited)
That's because you jump on the extreme bandwagon, and that is in itself societal programming.

 

In the 7 pages of this thread, nobody has said that equality is a bad thing [quite the contrary actually], but everything that they say against abuse of power, radical feminism, or suggest about a new way of thinking [even the situation presented in the OP] is seen as an attack on women everywhere; it is not.

 

You say that your social circle is foreign to this discussion ... well i have a few theories about that :

- we tend to choose a social circle that validates our opinions; this is why many ppl come to places like this forum to get a more neutral opinion on things

- UK is probably one of the few nations where women's rights have swung past the neutral point of the pendulum, the other way.

I'm Romanian and i have friends in London who work for EU institutions or in IT.

What they tell me from there [and Canada] is ... unbelievable.

 

 

With all due respect, not only have you clearly not read any of my posts, you've also probably not read the majority of the other posts either. I'm probably, on this particular issue, as far removed from extremism as possible. I've never addressed the issue more in my entire life than I've had on this thread, and in my social circle we don't go about talking about women's rights at nauseam - in truth, this is absolutely not my priority at all; I just get about my business without giving it a second thought.

 

The problem that I see in your answer, and in nearly all the answers from the male posters on this thread is that on top of being slightly patronising (that's okay, I'm used to it) you make a distinction between equality and feminism: true feminism is just that, so every time any man (like countless have on this thread alone, re-read it) use 'feminism' for whatever it is they are complaining in their (ex) partners / society, they are against gender equality, because that's what true feminism stands for, no more, no less. When a woman uses that to her own ends, all hell breaks loose (misandry is not healthy, we know) yet when a man does it, that's okay. I find it strange / hypocritical enough that it is worthy of being noted, since apparently we're all about gender parity on this thread... I won't loose sleep over it though since I have a pretty cool social circle when it comes to feminism and accepting it for what it is, and probably better reflects how men have embraced advances in gender parity / feminism more honestly than on this forum, for the most part.

Edited by littleblackheart
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