Getting an Introduction for an LDR

[justwhoiam]

You're freaking out. Watch "Hitch", if you haven't. You sound like the guy in love with Allegra.

[Tailor2000]

Believe it or not, Im not actually feeling freaked. More annoyed than anything. Enlightened in a sort of, why didn't I do that before, why aren't I being more direct, why are my friends such spineless wimps holding me back. I need to be decisive and go for it. Annoyed that my friend Jasmine seems to be really evasive on the subject and annoyed that Im not getting straight answers from her.

 

It is just a problem of fine tuning and working out how direct to be without appearing too eager.

 

I got half my friends saying I shouldn't do anything in case I ever meet her in the future, in which case Mary will remember me as the be the nice, shy, quiet unassuming guy who never made a move. The other half of my friends say you have nothing to lose. I say, well, all I can go on is now - she might have a husband when I do see her because she was waiting for me to make a move NOW. Not that Im looking that far into the future and making plans.

 

I struggle because I can't think on my feet. Perhaps therefore this situation is too complicated and never going to happen. But at least I can say I've given it my best shot and learned from it.

 

Another problem, in my social circle, I know people who say one thing and do another. Their actions don't match their words. Those people are easy to weed out. But then there are those who throw little breadcrumbs to keep up the pretense and always leave you guessing - are they really a friend, or are they just another jerk? I've been quite hurt by that this year, people who seemed really genuine and nice turn out to be actually, really rather loathsome individuals, they don't care, but they throw out tiny little morsels every now and again to pretend that they do. Im beginning to get that way here.

 

After I ask a question such as "when can I meet her", I don't get a yes or no response, i get a non commital, vague response that doesn't mean anything and I have to read between the lines. Did I say the wrong thing? Does she think that Im too serious, not serious enough? Maybe she thinks I have my head in the clouds. Constantly having to fight wondering, what's she thinking, because she isn't being direct. She isn't saying no and has promised to let me know if she isn't interested or is seeing someone else.

 

It's like asking someone what their favourite colour is and being told they've always been partial to four. But, what's your favourite colour, I drive a Honda. Well perhaps if I share my thoughts on colours, you might tell me yours. Oh, you still like four? Do you want to tell me your favourite colour? You would tell me if you had a problem with colour? Yes, I would tell you, and Yes I will tell you. GREAT! What is it then? Honda.

 

When people don't make any sense, when it feels like they aren't being straight with me and being evasive despite promising honesty, I can't help but go into fight or flight mode. There's danger. There's a problem.

 

Jasmine seems genuine, if a bit slow and evasive.

 

Yes, I shouldn't have involved Jasmine. Although she told me about her sister in the first place, and I need some form of introduction. But I should have just asked for her number, and if Jasmine said no, or any number of excuses, I could have said just what Im trying to say now, which is, she sounds nice and I'd like to meet her, see what happens.

 

If you want to quietly drop it now, I understand. Thanks for the advice, and thanks for listening to a shy an unassuming guy trying to learn to be more direct.

 

My plan, I don't have Mary's number, but Im going to wait a bit and then just message Mary by email and just tell her I'd like to meet her because she sounds nice. I'll leave it at that. If I get a response, great. If not, well, I've learned for next time.

[Lernaean_Hydra]

My plan, I don't have Mary's number, but Im going to wait a bit and then just message Mary by email and just tell her I'd like to meet her because she sounds nice. I'll leave it at that. If I get a response, great. If not, well, I've learned for next time.

 

For god's sake, this has been going on for probably over a month now. Why are you still so stuck on this complete stranger and over-analyzing every word or action from "Jasmine"? Did you ever think that perhaps Jasmine is being evasive because she's put off by your apparent fixation with Mary? Honestly, all this is so weird and unhealthy.

 

And then, even now when you've finally decided to take things into your own hands you continue to have ass it and have opted to "wait a bit" before emailing her. Why? No seriously, why!? Because from where I'm sitting, not only has this nonsense gone on far too long but you seem to be making things much harder than they have to be by allowing even more time to pass before you make direct contact.

[justwhoiam]

Tailor, one word: Hitch (the movie). Watch it. You might identify yourself with the guy in love with Allegra, or be ashamed to even be compared to him.

 

this has been going on for probably over a month now.

Almost 3 weeks, but yeah, I definitely get your point.

 

Did you ever think that perhaps Jasmine is being evasive because she's put off by your apparent fixation with Mary?

I thought that very same thing myself.

 

And then, even now when you've finally decided to take things into your own hands you ... have opted to "wait a bit" before emailing her. Why? No seriously, why!?

And they say women are a mystery...........................

 

you seem to be making things much harder than they have to be by allowing even more time to pass before you make direct contact.

Amen to that.

[Tailor2000]

For god's sake, this has been going on for probably over a month now. Why are you still so stuck on this complete stranger and over-analyzing every word or action from "Jasmine"? Did you ever think that perhaps Jasmine is being evasive because she's put off by your apparent fixation with Mary? Honestly, all this is so weird and unhealthy.

 

And then, even now when you've finally decided to take things into your own hands you continue to have ass it and have opted to "wait a bit" before emailing her. Why? No seriously, why!? Because from where I'm sitting, not only has this nonsense gone on far too long but you seem to be making things much harder than they have to be by allowing even more time to pass before you make direct contact.

 

Ooh. Goodie. My turn.

 

The stranger, Mary, seems like a nice person. I've asked around my social circle, and only Mary is single. Not all my eggs are in one basket and Im on the dating sites. But it's an opportunity I don't want to pass.

 

Is Jasmine put off by my fixation? That assumes I have a fixation. You can't say this based on how many posts I make about the subject, all you can say is Im inexperienced and looking to maximise the potential. Fixation is aking to stalking, but I say I couldn't care less if it didn't work out as long as I give it a chance. That's all it's about. I want an answer. But you can't take the number of posts I make and assume Im badgering Jasmine and showing a fixation.

 

If anything, I've shown Jasmine that Im not fixated, in an attempt to appear not eager. That may have damaged my chances as Jasmine may think Im not interested!

 

Why have I not gone for it already, why am I waiting? Remember your opening gambit about putting people off with a fixation? I keep saying I don't want to appear too eager.

 

Im a shy, quiet, unassuming guy. I worry about hurting other peoples feelings more than I do my own. I will give the hustle and bustle of Christmas and New Years to pass thinking I both don't want to bother them at this time and thinking I might get more focus here.

 

Another part of why, is that as I've said, half my quite influential friends disagree with me. Perhaps I need a bit of building up and encouragement that this is right, be strong, be good, go for it!

 

Another reason, apologies for this, I was trying to keep it anonymous and vague, but Im waiting for her response. I sent her an unassuming email about something non consequential. Got a great response from her. I said I'd be in the area with a friend if she can recommend anywhere for me and him to visit and she would be welcome to join us. Im trying not to appear eager, yeah? Not to threatening. But she hasn't replied. I want to give her a chance to respond. But if no response, there's nothing to lose after a week or two, just go for it and be direct and leave it at that.

 

Sorry, I should have said that in my previous post. I apologise and hope you understand why. I really fear someone may search for this and find me! So I try to leave out things which I don't think are important. Turns out it was important though.

[justwhoiam]

Tailor, I just got two things.

 

The first one is that you want to do things your way no matter what people say in here. So deal with the outcome: she hasn't replied. And I can assume she is having a hard time replying (I'm putting myself in her shoes and I would have a hard time replying too, but I'm not wasting time explaining how and why). Now deal with it. If you get into the river with clothes on, your clothes will get wet. No surprise. And I'm sure that was the last thing you wanted: making someone uncomfortable. Especially her.

 

The second one is that you feel there's no one you can really trust.

[Tailor2000]

Hang on, that's not entirely fair either. People here, including you, have basically been telling me to get on and do it, ask for her number, stop relying on others and do it myself. You yourself said if I get her number, ask her is she wants to go to some event in her home town.

 

Unless I'm misreading, I think that's the essence.

 

And I really agree with that. I think you're spot on. I'm just a bit poor at putting the theory into practice. Not to mention a little impatient. I'm making mistakes. It's to be expected.

 

But that's the direction I want to go in, to be direct, to be up front, to stop relying on others. When you tell me what I should have done, it's obvious. So please don't think I'm disregarding your advice. I'm definitely building that into Tailor mark 2. Just when I get a curve ball, I never expected Mary's email address, so I jumped instead of waiting to hear some more advice.

 

It's just a shame half my friends disagree with this attitude of being direct.

 

I'm not sure how I made her feel uncomfortable. Honestly I've been so platonic in this, that she probably thinks I'm a eunuch. The only way is being so forward and out the blue, which was the original advice - ask for her number, don't rely on third parties, make your own introduction, say you'll be in the area and all to meet.

 

I haven't really got that far yet, and only said there's a short game that me and a friend would like to go to and we wild appreciate the company. If my half a chat made her feel uncomfortable, then your advice wouldn't have worked either would it?

 

So OK, you're not going to explain why she's uncomfortable.

 

From your first post, would you have given me different advice then?

 

Or am I misreading you?

[TMichaels]

Quit diddling around trying to "read people" all the time and get off your backside and do something -- ANYTHING besides plotting, planning, analyzing, debating, considering, re-analyzing ad naseum, and fretting and stewing about ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

 

The fact you are spending so much time obsessing about what your next move should be with someone who probably doesn't even know you exist is ridiculous and not healthy.

 

If you're going to make a project out of something, MAKE IT YOURSELF and see a professional who can help you get to the bottom of why you relate to people and see relationships the way you do. An Internet forum is not the place to get that kind of assistance.

 

Best,

TMichaels

[Tailor2000]

I can answer that one. Because Im honest, I put myself last. I care too much about others. I care too much about getting involved and doing the right thing and helping. I care about not upsetting peoples feelings. I was once told people don't look that closely at behaviour. Maybe that's a downfall. But you know what, I see a lot of people that call themselves friends. I treat them as friends, share, care, love, like, help etc. Then I find they're just a bunch of fakes. They pretend to be friends. They're superficial at best. They talk the talk, but when it comes to it, they can't walk the walk, they're distant, they don't care.

 

Perhaps I shouldn't think about it that much, but I don't want to be one of those superficial people. I want to get my hands dirty, I want to get involved. I do have friends like that, but it's staggering the amount of other people who are superficial. Every year I try to send a personal message to all my friends and colleagues wishing a happy Christmas and a happy New Year. Lets see how many of those so called friends actually repay it this year? No, all they do is post a message on Facebook to all.

 

Im not falling pray to the Facebook generation. Im not having superficial relationships. I want proper genuine, full on, interactive relationships with people, where people care, love and support each other.

 

To your point about debating, well yes, I agree with that too. This is something that requires action. Trouble is, for every good intentioned piece of advice, you must realise this is a forum, and as such, if someone says something like you've scared her, well, I want to know how. If Im told to be direct, and I try and be direct, I want to know what I did that was wrong?

 

The previous advice was "If she gives you her sister's number, you then start looking up some upcoming event in her city. When you find one that you might like, you check to see if tickets are still available. Then you pick up the phone and call her, and you say something like: Hi, I'm John, one of Jasmine's friends. She told me you live in Cincinnati. I'd like to come there for (you name the event), it's in two weeks (or whenever it is, but in the range of 2 or 3 weeks). Would you like to go? It'd be half the fun if I go there alone!".

 

Well Ok, I didn't get the phone number, but I got the email address. I found an event, thought it might be less formal if I made it friendly and said me and a friend were going to the event, could she show us around, and we'd genuinely like the company...

 

Not that different really, but apparently that has made her uncomfortable, but the original advice wouldn't? Why not? Either the direct approach is correct but I badly implemented it, or the direct approach is wrong.

 

Suffice it to say I will leave it a couple of weeks to see if I do get a late reply, and I'll just be direct then. I got nothing to lose. I've at least learned a lot for next time.

Edited December 31, 2014 by Tailor2000

[FitChick]

Your mistake was saying you were bringing a friend. You blew it. Learn the lesson and move on with someone else.

[Tailor2000]

Thanks FitChick. So my downfall was my trying to keep it innocent and platonic to keep it non threatening, but it actually ended up being threatening?

 

If it changes things, it was a soccer game. I was just struggling to think of another legitimate reason to be in the area!

 

Good advice though. Thanks. Will make it just me and her (well another her) next time.

[FitChick]

So my downfall was my trying to keep it innocent and platonic to keep it non threatening, but it actually ended up being threatening?

Nothing to do with being threatening. Ever hear the expression "Two's company but three's a crowd"? You are allowed to attend soccer games or anything else alone.

 

Anyone dating does not want a platonic relationship. You obviously have little to no dating experience. You come across as too timid and need to get over your fear of rejection.

[Tailor2000]

I fear being embarrassment rather than rejection, putting my foot in it, saying the wrong thing.

 

I was really trying to break the ice with her to be honest. I didn't want to come across in practically the first email to say i want to date you. I asked her first if she knew any good places to visit in the area saying she would be welcome to join us.

 

I didn't think it was wise to go for a date date and keep it casual, non confrontational, break the ice then step up from there.

 

That's where it came from.

 

But yes, no I see now, I just need to go for it instead of beating around the bush. A friend of mine is very direct. He gets a lot of success. Not that I'm looking for 'those' kind of relationships. But I'm not going to get anywhere waiting for things to happen.

 

Even today I had the advice to stop looking. Oh good advice, hadn't worked so far.

 

I'm learning to be more direct.

 

Thank you for the advice everyone. I'm just going to go out and make it happen.

[justwhoiam]

The previous advice was "If she gives you her sister's number, you then start looking up some upcoming event in her city. When you find one that you might like, you check to see if tickets are still available. Then you pick up the phone and call her, and you say something like: Hi, I'm John, one of Jasmine's friends. She told me you live in Cincinnati. I'd like to come there for (you name the event), it's in two weeks (or whenever it is, but in the range of 2 or 3 weeks). Would you like to go? It'd be half the fun if I go there alone!".

Think of a recipe of a very yummy cake. A cake you loved so much that you want to try to bake it yourself. But you don't have the right ingredients at home. Instead of going to the store and buy them, you decide to use what you have available. Instead of butter, you use margarine. Instead of cream, you use yogurt.Instead of cocoa, you use barley. Instead of wheat flour, you use maize flour. Will you get the same cake? Or will you get something totally different? It's fine as long as you are aware that you won't get that yummy cake, and weird enough, you might not even like the cake you made. If you can deal with it, fine. You can treat it as an experiment if you like being creative. But if you had guests at home and wanted to serve that cake, so that cake was going to be important to you, then you should have made the effort to go out and buy what was needed. No excuse. That can apply to any area of your life. If you are willing to reach your goal, you do your best to do that. If you just keep that attitude of "I can deal with being unsuccessful, after all I have dealt with it all my life long", then chances are you will be unsuccessful. And I don't know any woman who likes losers. Women can rescue men, but the loser's attitude won't get you far in most areas of your life.

 

I'm just a bit poor at putting the theory into practice. Not to mention a little impatient. I'm making mistakes. It's to be expected.

The funny part is you go wrong knowing you are going wrong. Also, as you're an overthinker, you must have thought of what to write and how to write it long and hard. Didn't it occur to you that "hold, I'm doing something totally different than what I said I'd do".

 

My new advice is the following.

You can let a couple of months go by. Don't talk to Jasmine about Mary. Do as if you never heard of Mary at all. If you talk to Jasmine, you can talk about your job, about your plans for your next vacation, stuff like that. If Jasmine asks you about you contacting Mary and how it went or the like, you can just say: Oh, yes, I dropped her a message. And then you change subject, like: hey, did I tell you I'll attend a soccer game? And then you can start talking about soccer or whatever.

If you get any message from Mary, you can reply nicely. And you can even go as far as to say: "I'm sorry it didn't work out for you last time I was in town."

After around two months, you can try setting up a date again. If you do:

- don't use the words "date", "dating" etc.

- pick something she might be interested in (chances are soccer is not her cup of tea)

- don't mention going there with other people, value her company, without making it too binding

- ideally, make it a Saturday afternoon, if she doesn't work saturdays, and have plans in case you like each other's company and want to spend the night together too, like going to a restaurant and have dinner, etc.

 

P.S. I usually send Christmas wishes to colleagues, clients, friends and relatives. Many reply, others don't. This year, I only sent Christmas wishes to colleagues. To make up for that, I plan on sending wishes for the New Year next week to everybody else. Probably starting from next Tuesday. This year for me, it was more difficult than other years. Don't judge people for that. For not sending wishes, or for not replying. Everyone has their own reasons. I also used to send a Christmas gift basket to my best client. This year I didn't. It was just a low-profile Christmas. Don't look for the speck in your brother's eye. Use your time in better ways.

[Tailor2000]

One of my biggest problems, is that I listen to other people. I come to forums asking for advice. And you must know, everyone has an opinion.

 

I think one day, "Im going to be bold, Im going to be direct, Im not going to use the word date, that's too serious, Im just going to say that Mary sounds interesting and I'd like to meet her".

 

But then having nothing really to go on, I start wondering if this can be done another way. The advice I then get ranges from don't say a word, to keep it casual, to ask her what her favourite condoms are and so on and so forth.

 

What works for one, doesn't work for another, and Im somewhat at a disadvantage not knowing Mary, though she seems to like football, and all I really was hoping for (my memory is terrible so I apologise again if everything sounds mixed up, I remember the fact but not the intention) was to simply break the ice with Mary, perhaps hoping that maybe after me and my friend having watched the football, that Mary would bring one of her friends along, we go out together as a group, have a good time, good drinks and have a good laugh. A real ice breaker and then next time....

 

Hey Mary, i really enjoyed your company, I'd like to see you again.

 

I think that's the angle I was playing.

 

 

 

Ok, so in two months, forget using the word date, I arrange something directly with Mary? Should I bother getting her phone number first, or continue with email?

 

If me and Mary do meet up then, make it one on one, don't bring a friend - just to confirm, breaking the ice one on one is better than bringing a friend?

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the advice about Christmas and New Year too. Im really upset this year because basically no one from this group that I belong to, the group that me and Jasmine are members of, bothered to send any direct wishes to me. My close friends outside of the group did.

 

The group claims to be loving, caring, giving and claims to be my friend. That upset me the most, the people I had reasonable expectations of, let me down the most. Fair enough people being busy, but no one, not one said Happy New Year. I may as well be invisible, for everything that they they say they stand for, they don't really look outside their bubble. Just for one person to say hey, hows it going and give me a warm a hug without me having to ask for it. For one person from this group to treat me like my close friends. For someone to come up and start a conversation with me. To get an invitation somewhere. Why am I busting myself and spending all my energy on people who I feel couldn't really care less about me, and the times that they do try, you're looking at them thinking, why, why now? What's changed, why are you bothered with me now? Give it a week and we'll go back to perfect strangers where I think I've misjudged you and try to be friendly, but you can't be bothered.

 

There's one friend who ignored me for three months whenever I saw her because she claimed she was busy, she's been supportive and helpful since, but it just feels superficial. Shared a meal with her, she ignored me the following week when I was trying to speak to her. She busted someone else for ignoring her. Jasmine told me about her sister, told me she'd be honest and would let me know if there was a problem, if Mary wasn't interested or was dating anyone else. Jasmine hasn't told me about any problems but hasn't exactly helped in any way. That isn't fair and it isn't right.

 

Im feeling really quite hurt and alone right now.

 

Thanks, hoping I'll get it all sorted. I really do thank you for the advice. I think part of it, is trusting my own instinct.

[justwhoiam]

I understand where you're coming from.

 

You either need to really trust the person you get advice from or know about their being successful. After all, you want to apply something that can work, not something that can fail. To fail, you can just do it by yourself .

 

Now I'm kidding, I'm trying to take some drama out of your thread.

 

Regarding your circle of people, I have no idea what kind of people they are, or how many people we're talking of. 6? 20? 50 people? Did your friendship with them start online or in real life? What brings you together? A sport? A hobby? Religion? I have no idea, but I guess that might have an impact on the superficiality of the relationships.

 

Don't go out with just one circle of friends. Try to have more than one. If you know people who like bowling, then you can also have buddies who go biking, etc. Right now, you might also benefit from going out with single friends. See if there are clubs, associations etc. for people like you, with your interests, who are single, etc.

 

Going out as a group of friends can work, but it depends on the context. I can make examples, but it's not easy to explain. You see a girl on campus, you start talking to her, then you invite her to join you and your friend Mike to go to some sports event. That would be OK. And she could bring a friend too. There'd be in person interaction before going to that event. But you've never talked to this woman, you are in your 40s, aren't you? I don't remember your age, but it all started on the wrong foot, somehow.

 

Anyway, are you a Taurus?