Are there any men who are NOT bitter jaded woman haters "out there?"

[elaine567]

Look at the over 50% of married men who end up in divorce court. Look at what their wives did to them. And get an education.

 

Wait a minute " Look at what their wives did to them."???!!

[Rejected Rosebud]

Look at the over 50% of married men who end up in divorce court. Look at what their wives did to them. And get an education.

That is uncalled for, I have a masters degree and am quite smart and worldly, maybe you doubt that anybody who knows happy relationships that aren't based on somebody paying could have knowledge? And my dad is your age, he would just shake his head if he read what you write about men and women on here!

 

 

My ex and I had agreed to an amicable divorce [even though I all but hated her], we had agreed to the basic outline, and I planned to spend the rest of my life making sure she is okay. Then she turned around and violated our contract, used all of my good intentions against me, and tried to destroy me. Later I learned that she had secretly taken out a life insurance policy on me. And I honestly think she was slowly trying to kill me.

 

 

So bitter? Nah. Why would I be bitter?

 

I'm sorry for you Robert but not for the reasons you want people to feel sorry for you, it's your remarkable self pity and lack of personal responsibility in your own life that makes me sorry for you and I mean that sincerely, I really am sad for you. From the way you represent yourself here I get that you have a huge problem with women and the only way you can deal with one is to have her bought and paid for, that makes you a pitiful figure to me, plus you just seem kind of unstable. I would need to hear your ex wife's side of the story before I would buy your claims that you were the victim of some kind of evil witch, your opinion of women in general makes me believe that you would not be a good husband (for me or my mom or any women I know anyway) … sorry! But that is the way I read you on here.

[Rejected Rosebud]

Since he's talking about all women in his post, that includes your SB.

I think that if you saved her from prostitution and she feels 100% financially dependent on you it doesn't count! It's just us women who do stuff for ourselves that are the baddies!

[Woggle]

I don't think we should judge all women but I really wish what men dealt with in divorce court was taken seriously. I have known many women who were chewed up and spit out by the family court system and I perfectly understand why it would scare men away from commitment. When people feel they aren't being heard they tend to lash out and many men who have been through the divorce meat grinder don't feel heard.

[thefooloftheyear]

I don't think we should judge all women but I really wish what men dealt with in divorce court was taken seriously. I have known many women who were chewed up and spit out by the family court system and I perfectly understand why it would scare men away from commitment. When people feel they aren't being heard they tend to lash out and many men who have been through the divorce meat grinder don't feel heard.

 

 

Very true.....and a lot of the cynicism(rightfully so) comes from this crowd...

 

Not really sure why the modern feminists arent taking up the cause to even the playing field here as they so artfully do in causes that benefit them directly.. Its certainly well overdue..

 

Hint: Sarcasm in last statement intentional....

 

TFY

[Woggle]

What I will say to both genders is that is you want the opposite sex to show you respect and empathy and to be treated like an individual then they should be willing to show these things in return. None of this I can treat you any way I like but if you do anything to me I will scream and cry like a victim. Much too much of that these days.

[Mister Zen]

What amazes me is how any time men bring up legitimate and even FACTUAL arguments.. a lot of the women on this site start to kick sand.. as if they don't want other men to gain any insight. God forbid men actually know what they might be dealing with out there. Maybe it will avoid the bitterness if men know ahead of time what systems are in place that work against them.

 

We have a 50% divorce rate....the "right women" in a sane man's estimation can become the "wrong women" in the blink of an eye...usually after the kids are born. Now she can use the law to bring holy hell on your back and there is nothing you can do about it.

 

I like the arguments about "picking the right woman" and "making good relationship choices". Women change....you might have noticed this. And when they change within a relationship or marriage the full power of the state is on their side. Now they have the advantage sanctioned by the police, courts, and state....what does "a man making "good choices" have to do with this?

 

Don't fool yourself...there is not a man alive who knows when a woman will go nuts...then you are at her mercy.

 

The truth is seldom entertaining...that's what off broadway plays are for.

[insert_name]

In my life I have had occasion to be treated in a horrifically cruel and heartless fashion by just a few men. One in particular was just sociopathic.

 

BUT I really believe to my core that these men were the exception and that the vast majority of men I see every day are doing their best. I believe men like my dad and brothers, who are strong and kind and honest, pass by every day. I have been in relationships with men like this and appreciated their integrity.

 

See, when this handful of men treated me like dirt, I had a choice in my response. I could generalize those experiences to men in general, become jaded, declare every flaw I might need to examine on "the male gender," and never heal or grow or be a woman any man would want to approach with a 20 foot pole. Cause what man wants to be with a woman who is going to rant about how all her troubles are a man's fault, right?

 

My troubles aren't a man's fault. Even with the jerks, except for one, in hindsight I can see I ignored red flags and even if I didn't I was the one who chose to go out with them.

 

I think men get a raw deal. They are the butt of jokes on TV and in commercials, the divorce laws still favor women on money and custody, and when they behave the way they are wired to behave by being strong and making decisions and things then lots of women whine about oppression. But I respect many many men and love and respect the man I am with now.

 

Surely, though, any honest person who can set aside the sarcasm for a second has noticed how the same dozen posters (who re male) go from thread to thread bashing women while simultaneously saying they no longer care and high fiving each other. Their whining is so loud that sometimes it is hard for me to hear the really good men, so I apologize for that.

 

I guess I answered my own question in that yes there are plenty of men who have chosen to be good men. I was hormonal the other day I guess. You know how us dripping faucet women are hahaha.

 

I think it's easy to speak from a woman's point of view and say the things you are yet still not really understand or have empathy for how loneliness and lack of

intimacy can affect a man's mental state and his attitude to the world around him. And when I say intimacy I don't just mean sex I mean sharing the sort of bond that men and women who are in love do. I mean, I love my friends and all that, but there are times when I wish after I said goodbye to them that I was going home with a girl, to lie in bed together and talk about hopes and dreams and all that sorta stuff that friendships just don't provide. But right now, that situation has never been more far away from me. And I am sure that's the same for many other men. I think it *generally* is different for men, because we don't have the same options as women so it's hard to get any indication even of desirability when we are going through a spell where we are terminally single.

 

I've been single for 10 years now. Yep, nothing that has ever lasted more than 2 weeks in all that time, yet I am reasonably social, I have been out with friends a lot in that 10 years and been in a position where I can meet women and on occasion have done...but nothing lasts. Admittedly early on in that spell I was totally at fault and regret that and have learnt from it, but unfortunately I have never had the chance to prove that I have learnt from it. I've tried changing my appearance, outlook etc but I fail to make connections- its something that's very difficult to evaluate yourself and fix, you often need guidance from those around you, but in my experience it's rare to have the sort of friends that are interested enough to be objective and help you make the changes you need to to improve. Meanwhile when I see all the other guys around me meet the girls they want to be with and settle down, it gets tough to not be envious and bitter about my lot in life. I have to be the one that finds solace in my own company and find happiness there- to an extent I have done, but there are times like now when it stings like a bitch, to be quite honest.

 

All I am saying is fine you can write off all the men who are bitter and think that they should man up or whatever.....or you can empathise and think that underneath all that bitterness there is really a guy who maybe hasn't had a break in a while to the point where they can't see the light at the end of the tunnel anymore. We all have a history and maybe the bitter guys are justified in feeling the way they do? Not all, as some do make their own bed, but I am sure there are many out there who are like me and some of the other guys on here, good guys who are stuck in circumstances that it's very difficult to change.

 

One thing I will say is that when reversed there is far more empathy for women who have been mistreated and are bitter towards men, it's part of the in-grained stereotype of men that society has that they should be stoic and never show their emotions, as such any guy who is guarded or cynical towards women, love and relationships gets no attempt at understanding, he is assumed to be justifiably in the situation that he is because he doesn't have the skills to be successful with women that are expected of him as a man.

[Mangina]

That is uncalled for, I have a masters degree and am quite smart and worldly, maybe you doubt that anybody who knows happy relationships that aren't based on somebody paying could have knowledge? And my dad is your age, he would just shake his head if he read what you write about men and women on here!

 

I became a feminist in college. There was not too much talk about men's problems only women's.

[Mister Zen]

I think it's easy to speak from a woman's point of view and say the things you are yet still not really understand or have empathy for how loneliness and lack of

intimacy can affect a man's mental state and his attitude to the world around him. And when I say intimacy I don't just mean sex I mean sharing the sort of bond that men and women who are in love do. I mean, I love my friends and all that, but there are times when I wish after I said goodbye to them that I was going home with a girl, to lie in bed together and talk about hopes and dreams and all that sorta stuff that friendships just don't provide. But right now, that situation has never been more far away from me. And I am sure that's the same for many other men. I think it *generally* is different for men, because we don't have the same options as women so it's hard to get any indication even of desirability when we are going through a spell where we are terminally single.

 

I've been single for 10 years now. Yep, nothing that has ever lasted more than 2 weeks in all that time, yet I am reasonably social, I have been out with friends a lot in that 10 years and been in a position where I can meet women and on occasion have done...but nothing lasts. Admittedly early on in that spell I was totally at fault and regret that and have learnt from it, but unfortunately I have never had the chance to prove that I have learnt from it. I've tried changing my appearance, outlook etc but I fail to make connections- its something that's very difficult to evaluate yourself and fix, you often need guidance from those around you, but in my experience it's rare to have the sort of friends that are interested enough to be objective and help you make the changes you need to to improve. Meanwhile when I see all the other guys around me meet the girls they want to be with and settle down, it gets tough to not be envious and bitter about my lot in life. I have to be the one that finds solace in my own company and find happiness there- to an extent I have done, but there are times like now when it stings like a bitch, to be quite honest.

 

All I am saying is fine you can write off all the men who are bitter and think that they should man up or whatever.....or you can empathise and think that underneath all that bitterness there is really a guy who maybe hasn't had a break in a while to the point where they can't see the light at the end of the tunnel anymore. We all have a history and maybe the bitter guys are justified in feeling the way they do? Not all, as some do make their own bed, but I am sure there are many out there who are like me and some of the other guys on here, good guys who are stuck in circumstances that it's very difficult to change.

 

One thing I will say is that when reversed there is far more empathy for women who have been mistreated and are bitter towards men, it's part of the in-grained stereotype of men that society has that they should be stoic and never show their emotions, as such any guy who is guarded or cynical towards women, love and relationships gets no attempt at understanding, he is assumed to be justifiably in the situation that he is because he doesn't have the skills to be successful with women that are expected of him as a man.

 

This just goes back to male disposability. Society views men as the disposable gender.. therefore no one cares what happens to men. Look at the News. Everyone loses their mind when some cute girl goes missing right? Men go missing all the time.. no one cares.

 

That few men have recognized the dire implications if this; his own disposability in the modern context is startling. Women see fit to degrade, destroy, and denigrate men at their most vulnerable (unemployed, jobless). The really interesting thing is women DEMAND men protect them too, while men get shy and itchy when it comes to DEMANDING that women do... well.. ANYTHING.

 

Strange.

[Haydn]

Blimey, it`s no wonder some of you blokes are still single with some of these attitudes towards women.

[Rejected Rosebud]

This just goes back to male disposability. Society views men as the disposable gender.. therefore no one cares what happens to men. Look at the News. Everyone loses their mind when some cute girl goes missing right? Men go missing all the time.. no one cares.

A girl is a minor child, and whether it's a boy or a girl, yes, people care if they go missing, also, if there is foul play indicated I am sure that everybody cares when a person goes missing, if it looks like they just walked not so much.

 

That few men have recognized the dire implications if this; his own disposability in the modern context is startling. Women see fit to degrade, destroy, and denigrate men at their most vulnerable (unemployed, jobless). The really interesting thing is women DEMAND men protect them too, while men get shy and itchy when it comes to DEMANDING that women do... well.. ANYTHING.

 

Strange.

I have no idea what you're talking about, where exactly do you live??!?! "Dire implications" of dating or WHAT??!?!? Maybe you should move where people take responsibility for themselves, the women are not all sociopaths and the men aren't all crying victims! Really dude how can you live like that, sounds like you need a change for your own good!

[Woggle]

I am happily married but I call it like it is to how things are.

[CrystalCastles]

I hope more men become bitter and stop buying into this game. It's the only way things will ever change. I don't hate women, but I absolutely hate the attitudes of society in general .

 

Right. Lets just turn the rest of the good, non-bitter men in this world into women-haters.

 

You don't hate women? Dear, your whole post reeks of hate. Its so smelly I can smell it all the way here, from my house in Canada!

 

The problem with these attitudes, is that some men feel the need to paint a whole gender in one color, based on the few bad encounters they have had. Men and women are both people. There are good women and bad women, just like there are good men and bad men. I encountered plenty of bad men in my dating but did I decide all men are bad? No.

 

Women aren't looking for men to prove themselves. Just you saying that makes me picture a puppy dog at a circus, jumping through hoops and doing tricks to get a laugh from the audience. When a man and a woman are compatible, they don't need to prove anything to each other. Each already knows the other is what they're looking for. They click, they have a good time. The only time you need to prove anything, is to someone who isn't interested in dating you, in which case you're wasting your time and that's on you.

[Targetlock]

I know im not, and i feel sorry for people that have crappy situations and that is has turned them bitter i'm generally an optimistic person waiting for his chance to prove himself, i live, i learn and try and move on. getting bitter and resentful gets you nowhere i find, but thats just me i guess

[bubbletea]

I don't think we should judge all women but I really wish what men dealt with in divorce court was taken seriously. I have known many women who were chewed up and spit out by the family court system and I perfectly understand why it would scare men away from commitment. When people feel they aren't being heard they tend to lash out and many men who have been through the divorce meat grinder don't feel heard.

 

Men aren't the only ones to get screwed over by the court system...it does happen to women also. My mom lost both her children from her first marriage because the judge thought they would be better off with a male figure. He was abusive and an alcoholic and neither of my half-brothers associate with their father to this day. They moved out at 18 and 20 to come live with us.

[Under The Radar]

* UTR slowly raises hand *

 

I solemnly swear I am NOT a bitter jaded woman hater.

 

[Phoe]

I don't care what anyone says; it's always the guy that has to prove himself to the woman. Not the other way around.

 

I have definitely been the one trying to prove myself.

 

I have had multiples times where I adored a guy, and tried and tried and tried so hard to prove myself, and he just didn't want me in the end.

 

It's definitely not solely men trying to prove themselves.

 

 

OP yes there are non-jaded men out there. I know many.

[Phoe]

What I will say to both genders is that is you want the opposite sex to show you respect and empathy and to be treated like an individual then they should be willing to show these things in return. None of this I can treat you any way I like but if you do anything to me I will scream and cry like a victim. Much too much of that these days.

 

See, I have a lot of respect and empathy for men, I see what they deal with, and regularly state my opinion that there's quite a bit of unfairness thrown at them, but I still get told off for it.

[Mister Zen]

A girl is a minor child, and whether it's a boy or a girl, yes, people care if they go missing, also, if there is foul play indicated I am sure that everybody cares when a person goes missing, if it looks like they just walked not so much.

 

Have you actually watched the news? I'm not talking about minors.. I'm talking about grown women. And you know that.

 

Missing women get more TV time on the news than missing men (all other things being equal.. age, race, attractiveness, etc). The reason for this is male disposability. Same thing with violence towards men vs. women.

 

I have no idea what you're talking about, where exactly do you live??!?! "Dire implications" of dating or WHAT??!?!? Maybe you should move where people take responsibility for themselves, the women are not all sociopaths and the men aren't all crying victims! Really dude how can you live like that, sounds like you need a change for your own good!

 

Maybe you need to learn how to have a mature discussion with people who don't share your world view without shaming and insulting them for not seeing things your way.

 

You really think this nasty undermining response is helping anything?

[bachdude]

I've had some pretty tough experiences with woman but in retrospect I think I understand the situations better now than I did when I was younger. So I don't hold any bitterness towards women at all.

 

I really think in many cases it comes down to communication. If men and women would just learn to TALK to each other in productive, healthy ways, most of the divorces could be prevented.

 

So many relationship problems between men and women come down to communication style differences that lead to misunderstandings and hurt feelings that don't get addressed. This leads to festering problems, blaming, resentment, relationship breakdown, and down the line.

 

And in my experience women love it when the man takes the lead to talk through a problem honestly, openly, with a sincere desire to fix the issue.

[Rejected Rosebud]

Have you actually watched the news? I'm not talking about minors.. I'm talking about grown women.

Why did you say "cute girls"?

 

Missing women get more TV time on the news than missing men (all other things being equal.. age, race, attractiveness, etc). The reason for this is male disposability.

Check out the vastly greater number of kidnapped / abducted women than men! I think that might be the reason there is more reporting about it on TV!

 

Same thing with violence towards men vs. women.

Are you talking about violence by a member of the opposite sex? Most violent crimes by far are committed by men, whether against other men or women! If you want equal time for violent crimes committed by women either you guys are gonna have to cut way back or we'll have to go on a lot of violent rampages for centuries!

 

 

 

Maybe you need to learn how to have a mature discussion with people who don't share your world view without shaming and insulting them for not seeing things your way.

??? I don't even have a clue what you're talking about!

[thefooloftheyear]

Have you actually watched the news? I'm not talking about minors.. I'm talking about grown women. And you know that.

 

Missing women get more TV time on the news than missing men (all other things being equal.. age, race, attractiveness, etc). The reason for this is male disposability. Same thing with violence towards men vs. women.

 

 

 

Maybe you need to learn how to have a mature discussion with people who don't share your world view without shaming and insulting them for not seeing things your way.

 

You really think this nasty undermining response is helping anything?

 

Its got nothing to do with the fact that you think men are disposable..

 

The reason women and children get the most attention is that they are more likely to be the victims of abduction or some random violent crime.....

 

Guys generally dont get abducted, raped, molested, etc...

 

TFY

[autumnnight]

See, I have a lot of respect and empathy for men, I see what they deal with, and regularly state my opinion that there's quite a bit of unfairness thrown at them, but I still get told off for it.

 

Me too, though I have to say it NEVER happens in real life.

 

There's a reason I have Proverbs 31 in my signature. I believe a good man should have a virtuous, loyal, loving, supportive woman. Heck, I believe Ephesians 5. But to be honest, I believe a man or woman who responds to being hurt by vilifying a whole gender or who uses it as an excuse to hurt as many people of that gender as possible has poor character.

[ponchsox]

A bitter jaded woman towards men that I dated turned me I to a bitter woman hater