Tips for getting over an exit affair by now ex-wife

[Realist3]

She did, but unethically by having an affair and lying. In all probability, her "coming to grips in her own mind" amounted to nothing but mental masturbation to justify her affair. She gave her "needs" a reality that they really likely never had.

 

 

 

I don't think it happens like this any of the time. Again, because any "problems" in the marriage are mushroomed all out of proportion by the one with the grievance who won't address them with integrity.

 

-10th Engineer Harrison

 

I will say it again. The affair is irrelevant. That is sooo not the issue. It might as well be the planet we used to call Pluto in terms of relevance towards the issue at hand.. The affair was used for her

validation. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

We can argue the rights and wrongs of her choosing that path until we are blue in the face. That fact remains that she checked out long before this affair ever took place.

 

 

I have known my wife for 30 years of her 44 year old life. I know her like the back of my hand. I also know that she could not transform herself into what I grew over time to want/need in a mate. It is not her fault. She is just not that person. I accept that. She accepts that. We have had the discussion many times over. I meet what she desires, and she does not meet what I desire. Arguing about it will not solve one thing. She will never be who I need.

 

What I am saying is that there are people that finally come to a realization that this particular relationship is never going to work. They can list A. B. C. and D., and the spouse may try their hardest to achieve those. Yet, instead of trying to prod them to jump through hoops you know full well they are not going to make... You walk away.

[Realist3]

I'm not trying to derail this thread, but I undertook a business venture with my MIL over the past several months for poops and grins. Didn't need it or especially want it. I was helping her out. Sure enough I witnessed the same exact traits in her mom that drove me away from my wife. The biggest one, "I don't want to talk about it." Conflict avoidance.

[Ronni_W]

The problem is that I am analytical, and I do not do well at trying to put such things off and out of my mind. (I know I'm not alone in that.)

That is so not a "problem"...at least, not all of the time . I tend to become also over-analytical, in trying to figure out the defects and destruction of my own lifestream.

It can be, sometimes, a subconscious or unconscious or 'soul' feeling, for which there are no words in the moment...just a very compelling feeling.

How do you differentiate those feelings from the "fog" of an affair? Because exactly what you are talking about is also commonly trotted out as the bull**** justification for an affair, the bull**** justification for ending a marriage without really trying, etc.

 

I'm genuinely not trying to be insulting, I am trying to figure it out. Because it seems to me that people very rarely make mistakes in moving on and say, "I'm making a mistake in chasing after this other person/lifestyle/etc." We always create a rationalization for what we are doing, even when it is an immature or unhealthy action. We always say, "This is what I need to grow," or "I'm unhappy with where I am as a person, so this is justified."

 

How do you know when it is real, versus just a poor justification? It almost seems like everyone who has an affair that they regretted (or made other obviously poor life choices) had something like that as a rational explanation in their own mind at the time they made the choice.

 

Perhaps I'm asking the impossible, in asking how we can even trust our own minds in these things?

 

Maybe what I'm trying to say is this. A mid-life crises never feels like a mid-life crises to the person who is going through it. They always think it is justifiable under some circumstances like the above logic, because by definition if they didn't, they wouldn't be doing it.

Dang! I dislike re-quoting entire posts, so please do excuse. I missed this post, earlier on.

 

Frogger, no worries. It didn't feel like an 'insult'. I totally get that you're just trying to figure things out. In any case, what kind of nutjob would I have to be, to take insult from any of these here boards?

Speaking for myself only, I did NOT know that it was the "right" thing for me to be doing at the time that I was doing it. For me, it only proved the "right" thing, with hindsight. To be exact, on the first anniversary of my divorce, which was about three years after my decision to separate. And even then, I still wish that my marriage could have worked out, some almost-fifteen years later. It just is what it is. I had to change the movie in my head.

 

I don't remember having a rationalization in my head at the time, or even trying to rationalize it. I knew that my then-stbx was hurting, as well as were all our family, on both sides. But. I was hurting, also.

 

I didn't have an affair, so that's different. But I had the opportunity to have an affair, so that's the same. I didn't, for personal reasons. Have the affair, that is.

 

I think we CAN trust our own minds in these things. Maybe that's what I did; I honestly don't know. I think that it becomes a mere justification when we consciously, deliberately choose to NOT trust our minds, or to ignore what our (higher) mind is telling.

 

I think that people KNOW that violating their marriage vows is "wrong", no matter how, however they would define, for themselves, "wrong", in this context. I think that people KNOW when it is a mid-life crisis...even if they can't or won't admit to it.

 

I think the much more important question is what triggers a so-called "mid-life crisis". And why does it seem to get triggered in women more-so than men? Or at least, from my observation, experience and research, it seems to hit women earlier in life, and differently. But I don't want to turn this into a gender-based debate.

 

I want to ask you...if I am not contributing anything positive, please let me know and I'll stop posting.

I totally get that it is an incredibly difficult time on all levels. I have no wish to add to that in any way at all.

[Oberfeldwebel]

I don't think it would have mattered what you did, she was going to be a walk away wife. Like every marriage there were issues, but instead of working to fix them, she instead internalized everything. This built resentment to a point that by the time she did voice her issues, she was already gone. She did not want to go to counseling, stop go or collect $200, she just wanted it over.

 

It is going to take time for you to move on from this and I recommend the follow. First cut all unnecessary contact with her. She is no longer your wife, friend, buddy or pal. She is the mother of your children and should be treat respectfully for their sake, but their is no need for idol chatter. Secondly, you need to invest your time in yourself and your children. Exercise is a good way to help with the stress and make a healthier you. Involve yourself in hobbies or start one you have always wanted to try. Make the time with your children as meaningful as possible, do your chores when you are by yourself, so that time with them is fun for all of you. Volunteer work is a good way to take your thoughts off of your problems and helps those that appreciate your time. Lastly, you need to be too busy with your life that you don't have time for hers.

[Ronni_W]

The one thing I might add is that I still think that one person should not simply decide, on their own, that the other person cannot possibly meet those new needs. Bring them into the process. Tell them what you are feeling, and what you are thinking.

Frogger,

That still makes the assumption that THEY know what's going on within themselves...AND that they have the words to nicely and neatly explain it in ways that other people will be able to understand; find logic and reason.

I think it happens LESS often that way, than the norm.

 

I do 100% agree with you that the other spouse deserves to be let in on whatever conundrum the first is facing. But. In the interests of fairness and equality, it must be considered a real possibility that your ex honestly, truly believes that she did give you that opportunity.

 

NOT that she did; only that she thinks-believes that she did. And that has to count; it MUST count if she thinks-believes that. And only that this is a possibility, not the actual facts of the matter.

 

Again, I think that is part of the point of a marriage. You consider the other person. You involve them. If you are growing, you are excited about that and try your utmost to have them appreciate that and grow with you. You try to grow together, and meet each others new needs.

Yes, exactly. But show me a marriage like that. Or ANY relationship, for that matter. Adult children and parents; adult siblings; workplace; business.

 

And again, it takes self-awareness to know when, if, how one is growing...or even on the cusp of being potentially ready to grow. I, for one, didn't know.

 

And here you are, having to grow, having it thrust upon you by seeming external forces. Sometimes we just don't even know when it is our turn to grow.

 

Part of the pain of this is that I feel betrayed by my attempts to let her grow, and I understand that is common with affairs. The spouse uses your own trust and need to trust her against you.

Again. I just don't want to re-post an entire post.

 

I get your pain. I don't want to add to it. But. Your wife could have been wondering why you didn't press harder about her changed behaviour (make-up, dress, social media activity, etc.). She could have been confused and hurt and wondering why you could not recognize that she was struggling, in pain, whatever. She could have been taking it as a sign that you were not really that interested and/or invested in her feelings, happiness, self-esteem, whatever-all-it-was-for-her.

 

Could have been, not was for sure.

 

I understand your rationalization and self-justification for not pressing harder. But. You see how that works - or can work - now that I've used those words. Yes?

 

I'll admit, I feel like I was repaid for my attempts to let her find herself and not intrude on the process (because of her protestations that nothing was going on, and that she was happy with me) with deception and betrayal. It feels like she intentionally locked me out, and used my trust against me, rather than letting me in and working with me.

That's not necessarily how it happened for her, Frogger. Could have been, but not was for sure.

Her protestations could have been self-deception or self-denial. If not all the time, at least at the beginning.

 

On the other side. Now let's say that she did deliberately, coldly and maliciously deceive and hurt you, and abuse your trust. Then where does your mind and, more importantly, your heart, take you?

Edited November 20, 2014 by Ronni_W

[Frogger]

I want to ask you...if I am not contributing anything positive, please let me know and I'll stop posting.

I totally get that it is an incredibly difficult time on all levels. I have no wish to add to that in any way at all.

 

No. I'm having a hard time agreeing with some of what you're saying, but I don't think you're trying to be malicious or anything.

 

NOT that she did; only that she thinks-believes that she did. And that has to count; it MUST count if she thinks-believes that. And only that this is a possibility, not the actual facts of the matter.

 

I just don't know how she could possibly conclude that reasonably. Given that I asked her directly over and over again across the years, and she always said everything was great and there were no problems

 

I get your pain. I don't want to add to it. But. Your wife could have been wondering why you didn't press harder about her changed behaviour (make-up, dress, social media activity, etc.). She could have been confused and hurt and wondering why you could not recognize that she was struggling, in pain, whatever. She could have been taking it as a sign that you were not really that interested and/or invested in her feelings, happiness, self-esteem, whatever-all-it-was-for-her.

 

That's pretty much a silly mind-**** game by her then. I did bring it up. Numerous times. She always denied there was anything there. Should I have treated her like a child, and ignored what she said?

 

I'm sorry, but at some point, part of being an adult is not playing cruel games with people. If I wasn't interested, i wouldn't have asked her what was going on. I wouldn't have noticed what she was doing in the first place.

 

I did notice. I asked, and she rebuffed me, saying it was in my imagination. It's not a rationalization or self-justification on my part. It is what happened. I was actually there.

 

And she denied she was having an affair to the very end, until I literally presented her with proof I knew. She denied everything, every time I asked her.

 

Further, recall, the same person said that she didn't tell me. Not because she was afraid of me, etc. But because that's just what she reflexively does. Because she didn't want me to be unhappy. Even though she admits I never asked her or pressured her to be that way.

 

That's not necessarily how it happened for her, Frogger. Could have been, but not was for sure.

Her protestations could have been self-deception or self-denial. If not all the time, at least at the beginning.

 

Her being delusional doesn't exactly make me feel better about what happened. There is a point at which "self-denial" in itself is just a glorified way of saying, "I want to do this thing, but I know it is wrong, so I'll just pretend I'm not doing that. It is childish.

 

I do think we're just going around and around here. I genuinely don't think you're acting badly here, but I think that we are now definitely at the point where this does nothing to help me move on. At this point, we're just back at the point of having to guess what was going on in her head. And we're having to guess because she wouldn't tell me. She wouldn't at any point while we were married (I'm not stupid, I tend not to miss things like, "I'm unhappy, we should work on X," or even things like, "I wish we went out more, etc."). And she won't now either.

Edited November 20, 2014 by Frogger

[Frogger]

After the recent series of posts, I also wanted to let the people who were kind enough to offer specific advice know that I am listening, and trying.

 

Last night I did 30 minutes on the treadmill. Tonight I went out to a meetup.com group, just to get out there and talk with people.

 

Trying not to put too much pressure on myself too early (because I feel miserable, and don't really feel like doing anything right now), but also trying to start getting more active physically, and also get out there and meet with people so I don't totally give in to my hermit-like tendencies. Baby steps.

[Striver]

Ronni_W,

 

What would it take for you to disapprove of someone leaving a marriage? Anyone leaving any marriage?

 

From his description, the XW of OP is not without her flaws. Didn't work, didn't do housework, late to everything, didn't talk about her feelings. And yet he loved her despite it all. And you persist in lawyering on her behalf.

 

This whole thing about growth, at some point we stop growing. We don't get any smarter. We just enjoy the years we get and wind up in a pine box or a crematorium. Maybe we're all God's special, unique snowflakes who deserve to have love ladled on us from cradle to grave without any work on our part, but we don't always get better. If someone is "growing", it should be visiable to outsiders, not just the self-important life path of the individual and their all-important feelings.

[AlwaysGrowing]

The way you have described your wife hits a lot of the conflict avoidant and/or passive aggressive personality types.

 

Either of those make ****ty life partners.

 

The expectation of being a mind reader is unrealistic. For someone to actual say you should have been more forceful/demanding/controlling in getting your wife to answer honestly doesn't understand the nature of those personalities. For if you did...actually you kinda did do....they then spin it into you being aggressive/demanding/forceful/controlling...that only feeds their passive-aggressive and/or conflict avoidance. It allows them to paint you as the bad guy.

 

They falsely believe their outwardly agreeable stance makes them the good guy..."see how nice I am". Then behind the scene....they sabotage you. Very cowardly behaviour.

 

They build up resentment...because you do face things...are competent...can hold your own in a discussion.

 

Others are right in saying that you would have to turn yourself into a pretzel to please them.

 

They don't know how to become a stronger version of themselves...so the only way to "fix" it....is for you to become weak version of yourself. Which won't work. 1. You are not 2. Who the heck is gonna get things done

 

Time to focus on you.

 

How great is it going to be...to NOT have to clean up after her many distractions...or have a bank account that GROWS.

 

I really believe that this is going to be a blessing for you.

[jackslife]

One of my closest friends separated from his wife this year.

 

He had been married for 12 years, two lovely children. The marriage had more than its fair share of crap but they seemed to get through it. After a rough patch a couple of years ago things started to get worse. He'd tell us (his friends) things that if he'd mentioned on here would have set off a series of red flashing lights.

 

She said he snored and was sweaty in bed and he had to move into the spare bedroom. She was out with friends regularly on a Friday night - looking very hot. Then she was having weekends away. The sex stopped and she said she didn't mind if he hooked up with someone else for that. Often he'd be dropping her off in town for her nights out. He's a good guy, hard working, attractive and wanted to do the right thing by his wife. He knew things weren't right but, wasn't this just what happened to couples in their late 40's?

 

Then the bombshell came, he called me up and over a beer told me how she said she'd had her head turned by another man. They hadn't had sex (mmmmmm) but she wasn't happy, neither was he and they should split. He was angry, devestated, he phoned the OM, I suggested counselling. They went once but I think the counsellors response (this is resolvable - actually it isn't) was the same.

 

She then put him through hell. She assumed he'd leave the house and pay alimony. She did everything to get him out of the house (including sex chats with the AP). Instead he got a good lawyer and basically instituted his version of the 180. In the UK husbands are turned into the bad guys and cash cows by the courts. He kept calm, he played the game, he put together a financial package to enable her to leave. She moved out last week.

 

He was lucky, as her behaviour made him realise his marriage was awful and she was a terrible wife. Basically he took control of his life. He went to the gym, he saw a lot of his friends, he controlled the break up, the finances and was able to dictate the terms of the separation. (In the UK for a man to be left in the house and to have 40% access to his children is a miracle.)

 

He has dated a lot of women and is seeing someone he really likes. I was watching the rugby with him on Saturday and I've never seen him look so happy.

 

OP, you can go through the whys and what ifs until you are blue in the face. The past is over, finished, you can't go back and change it. You need to live now and plan for your future.

 

I think my friend came out as well as he did, as he fell out of love with her very quickly. Then instead of getting angry, he very carefully and with great control managed his emotions and his break up.

 

There are a lot of angry, bitter people on this site. Especially ones who've been cheated on. If you can avoid that and let her go and not allow yourself to become bitter then you'll come out the better for it. As I said, my friend pretty much instituted his own variation of the 180, and it worked for him.

 

The sooner you worry and are consumed with the why, and move on to your new life as a single man the better it will be.

[dichotomy]

Looking back at the mess I was after my first marriage ended, a couple of random things stick out in my mind. Maybe something will help you.

 

-Me in tears to my older male shrink "what can you do for me, tell me, give me, to make this pain go away?" shrink "not much really, its just going to take time, keep talking"

 

- Again to shrink "These antidepressants your giving me dont seem to work!" Shrink "Ya, thats because your sad and hurting for a reason, those drugs are made for people who get depressed for no reason, we dont have much for justifiable depression, except time and support. Are you exercising and getting out?".

 

- After time had passed (about 2 years), what I came to really regret or focus on was not my ex wife, the whys, or her cheating and her OM, nor the divorce,....but how I (ME) dealt with that ending. I was too weak. She was not worth THAT much grief, nor obsessive thoughts, nor my self esteem taking a hit. I wasted my time and energy on....nothing.

 

- I was not prepared for the dating scene (on line dating) in my late 30's.. Not internally - as I need to have my mind right - nor externally with the players out there - yes woman can be players. Things had changed alot since I dated. Sex seems much more common early and often treated very casually. It was not usual that people were dating multiple people at the same time (i.e. sex) and not being upfront about it .When your ready - six months minimum, spend some time on the dating sections here and elsewhere getting up to speed on what to expect next. Also understand women you date at this age will likely have kids as well - thats a whole other world when you dating a mom, and possibly considering be a step parent in the future. You think your ex is crazy - wait till you deal with theirs.

Edited November 20, 2014 by dichotomy

[Trimmer]

I don't want to go into the exact details of my assets, but my own attorney (who is quite good, and I have some idea, as I am an attorney myself) told me that I never would have gotten anywhere near what I got if the divorce had been contested.

HA! I knew you were an attorney. You used the word "affirmative"; pretty much only attorneys and pilots use that word - and you can figure out which one by the way it gets used!

 

Part of the pain of this is that I feel betrayed by my attempts to let her grow, and I understand that is common with affairs. The spouse uses your own trust and need to trust her against you. I noticed my wife taking a greater interest in make-up, changing her dress, talking with "friends" on social media, etc. in the last six months or a year (basically, a number of things that I now recognize are common affair or affair-about-to-start symptoms). I admit, I had some concerns. But though I occasionally raised them in a light way, I intentionally did not make an issue out of it because I did not want to be the jealous cave-man husband type. I told myself that this was what she needed, that she had friends, was trying out new things, and that I needed to let her explore these things and be herself.

 

I'll admit, I feel like I was repaid for my attempts to let her find herself and not intrude on the process (because of her protestations that nothing was going on, and that she was happy with me) with deception and betrayal. It feels like she intentionally locked me out, and used my trust against me, rather than letting me in and working with me.

Man, you and I have a lot in common... Like at first, when she was saying she wasn't sure about the marriage, and needed to figure some things out, I felt almost a sense of relief, like "Finally, we're getting some stuff out on the table, and we can really work on this at an intimate level together..." And I was ready to be the good guy, give her some space to get her process started, while I stood by, ready and willing to join in. As scary as it started out sounding, I had a certain excitement that it might lead to a new intimacy in our marriage.

 

But then, when it was clear that this affair thing had already been in process for quite some time, and I realized that the "work on things" talk was just a mechanism to ease the discussion eventually towards "I've already decided to leave," I felt that same sense of betrayal. As if I had been presented with a marital challenge that I was ready and willing to address, but that was just a ruse.

 

I get your pain. I don't want to add to it. But. Your wife could have been wondering why you didn't press harder about her changed behaviour (make-up, dress, social media activity, etc.). She could have been confused and hurt and wondering why you could not recognize that she was struggling, in pain, whatever. She could have been taking it as a sign that you were not really that interested and/or invested in her feelings, happiness, self-esteem, whatever-all-it-was-for-her.

 

Could have been, not was for sure.

 

I understand your rationalization and self-justification for not pressing harder. But. You see how that works - or can work - now that I've used those words. Yes?

I see how that works - and it may indeed have happened that way - but I think that using this as some kind of a justification for her behavior has the unfortunate (and insulting to women) effect of normalizing the idea that women just can't communicate well and that it's the responsibility of men to read their minds.

 

I completely agree that she might have been acting under the influence of self-deception and/or self-denial, as you suggested, but I still hold her responsible for being an adult partner in a relationship, and having some fundamental capability to communicate like an adult. How many times did he have to bring it up? To call her attention to specific behaviors? How much was he supposed to press past her explicit denials? (Jeez, wouldn't that likely get him beat up for being an azzhole and "not hearing her?" Damned if you do... )

 

I'm sorry, but that's immature game-playing, not being an adult participating in a grown-up relationship.

 

Put another way, I think it's terribly unbalanced to suggest that it might be ordinary for one partner to be such an inadequate communicator that she needed to have her mind read in order to have issues of struggle and pain dragged out of her, and then to put the responsibility on the other partner to be such a super-human communicator that he would have had the ability to do that mind reading, and to push past her explicit denials to do the dragging.

Edited November 20, 2014 by Trimmer

[Snowflower]

Hi frogger, I've read most of your thread and all of your responses. I'm sure sorry you're going through this.

 

A few things struck me from one of your early posts in this thread. From an objective observer (me), there were/are some traits in your wife that make me think that this decision to end the marriage on her part was a logical conclusion for some of her idiosyncrasies. For example, you describe that she kind of did what she wanted and conformed to no one's expectations for as long as you've known her. Of course this was charming at first as you describe but someone who is one to follow their own whims may find marriage stifling after awhile.

 

Also, her tendency to start things and then not finish them, moving on to one thing without finishing another...you described the craft mess in your living room. Well, don't you think this is a simple pre-cursor of what she did to you and your marriage? She worked on it for awhile (a long while-20 years) but got tired of it (that lack of conformity again) or it didn't turn out how how she liked, so like the craft project on the living room floor, rather than cleaning it up-or finishing it properly, she just walked away, leaving a mess behind.

 

Does that sound familiar?

 

I've been in a similar situation as yours with an unfaithful spouse who was just ready to walk away. I don't think the affair or even the affair partner is the cause of it-not completely but rather something internal within them.

 

This is next part is going to sound shrink-ish (and I'm not a shrink but another infidelity survivor just like you)-I've learned a lot along the way. Did your wife have some sort of trauma in her childhood? Maybe neglect, abuse of some sort, her parents go through a tough divorce, etc? What is her relationship like with her parents now? I know this sounds touchy-feely but family of origin plays a huge role in our lives-good and bad...even for you and me.

 

There is a brilliant poster on LS-Quiet Storm. I had hoped she would chime in your thread. She just posted in a similar thread where a break-up had occurred. She really does a good job at explaining this phenomenon. You might search her user name and then look at her posts-this one was recent and it talks about the detachment and seeming lack of feelings that these type of people...the guy's girlfriend in that thread, your wife, my husband...and the reason for it. It was eye opening for me and I'm 6 years out from the trauma of my husband's decisions.

 

She can explain it much better than I can.

 

I would link the thread here but I don't think we are supposed to do that. Please read some of Quiet Storms posts; she is very insightful. Let me know what you think!

Edited November 20, 2014 by Snowflower

[Frogger]

The way you have described your wife hits a lot of the conflict avoidant and/or passive aggressive personality types.

 

Either of those make ****ty life partners.

 

I would say definitely conflict avoidant. More passive/aggressive toward the end, certainly.

 

I know people are probably wondering, "For someone so bad (as I have painted her), why are you as upset at losing her?"

 

The answer to that, beyond the obvious ones (comfort, familiarity, shared history, sexual compatibility, etc.) is that I always believed that the "issues" I had with her (being extremely messy, not finishing things, not working, pretty massive overspending) took a back seat to her being a fundamentally good and supportive person.

 

She did not complain about me. She was very sweet, and seemed quite kind. I always thought she has a "good soul." I work with people who make large amounts of money, and their wives are literally bitching at them because even though they make large amounts of money, they do not make as much as their friend. I work with people whose wives got into snits if their husband didn't buy the right car, have the right second house, etc. I also know people who, when they had a problem (lost their job, etc.), basically had their wives add to the pressure by complaining, ranting, etc.

 

My ex-wife was never like that. Now I do not want to suggest that I had a big bundle of problems that she overlooked. I don't have substance abuse issues, have never touched my wife or kids in anger, I don't have screaming arguments, etc. I've worked hard at the same job for 15 years straight, and make good money (I had some work related anxiety and sleep loss issues five or so years ago, but I didn't quit and soldiered through them as best I could). Although I'm not a natural with children, I do my best to be a good parent and have fun with the kids. About the worst thing that came out of our martial counseling sessions, which I will own up to, is that I can be a bit sarcastic. Even with respect to that, my ex-wife admitted that it was really more of an early marriage problem, and that I have been much better in the last 10-15 years such that it is not a problem anymore.

 

No one is perfect, I certainly am not. I do not lay all of the blame at her feet. But I genuinely tried to improve myself and work on my issues over time, and also to accept the things that she did that irritated me (not working, extremely messy, etc.), because I believed the underlying person was a good person and good for me.

 

The expectation of being a mind reader is unrealistic. For someone to actual say you should have been more forceful/demanding/controlling in getting your wife to answer honestly doesn't understand the nature of those personalities. For if you did...actually you kinda did do....they then spin it into you being aggressive/demanding/forceful/controlling...that only feeds their passive-aggressive and/or conflict avoidance. It allows them to paint you as the bad guy.Time to focus on you.

 

That is what I was trying to get at - you were just more succinct and clear. Basically, I tried to figure out what was going on. I asked. At some point, if I had pushed harder, I would have been told that I was "clingy" or "needy" and trying to control her. You really can't win with this type of situation.

 

How great is it going to be...to NOT have to clean up after her many distractions...or have a bank account that GROWS.

 

I really believe that this is going to be a blessing for you.

 

I'm really hoping that. It is too early for me to feel that, but I know rationally that it could be the case.

 

OP, you can go through the whys and what ifs until you are blue in the face. The past is over, finished, you can't go back and change it. You need to live now and plan for your future.

 

There are a lot of angry, bitter people on this site. Especially ones who've been cheated on. If you can avoid that and let her go and not allow yourself to become bitter then you'll come out the better for it. As I said, my friend pretty much instituted his own variation of the 180, and it worked for him.

 

The sooner you worry and are consumed with the why, and move on to your new life as a single man the better it will be.

 

Thanks. I think that is good advice. I know that I need to find a balance. I cannot just sweep this under the rug and force myself to move on in two weeks.

 

But I know that you are right - I also will lose myself if I am forever focused on what happened, wondering what she is doing, my anger with her for what she did, etc. That's why I made this thread - I know that I will need to move on from this. I want to be healthy and happy again some day. And I know that in order to do that, sometimes you have to do what your mind knows is right, even if you don't feel it in your heart/gut yet. My heart/gut just wants to curl up and mindlessly watch television. My mind knows that I need to make myself start taking small steps to move on, and try to gain focus on bettering myself and my own happiness, rather than dwelling forever on her.

 

- After time had passed (about 2 years), what I came to really regret or focus on was not my ex wife, the whys, or her cheating and her OM, nor the divorce,....but how I (ME) dealt with that ending. I was too weak. She was not worth THAT much grief, nor obsessive thoughts, nor my self esteem taking a hit. I wasted my time and energy on....nothing.

 

I could definitely see this. As mentioned, I have the opposite tendency of a lot of people. My initial reaction is often to find a way that I must have screwed something up, even in the face of decent evidence that someone else did me wrong. I understand your logic that we can overvalue the other person and beat ourselves up excessively, in a way that is simply unhealthy (and unproductive).

 

- I was not prepared for the dating scene (on line dating) in my late 30's.. Not internally - as I need to have my mind right - nor externally with the players out there - yes woman can be players. Things had changed alot since I dated. Sex seems much more common early and often treated very casually. It was not usual that people were dating multiple people at the same time (i.e. sex) and not being upfront about it .When your ready - six months minimum, spend some time on the dating sections here and elsewhere getting up to speed on what to expect next. Also understand women you date at this age will likely have kids as well - thats a whole other world when you dating a mom, and possibly considering be a step parent in the future. You think your ex is crazy - wait till you deal with theirs.

 

The "finding someone new" part, as I mentioned, does give me some anxiety. As I mentioned, my wife was my first girlfriend/love. I do not even have a history of dating from the earlier part of my life to look back on. I do not have the confidence that comes from knowing that I previously had other people who were interested in me/dating me, and that therefore I should be able to find someone else again. I also have my previously mentioned body image issues from my weight loss. I have the issues I'm sure a lot of men having regarding general physical adequacy, etc. Part of the reason I need to start working out - though you can't grow some things, you can at least grow muscle.

 

And as you mentioned, I am realistic. I know that a lot of people who will be dating at my age will have gone through their own losses. Honestly, I also know that there will be a lot of damaged people out there (and to be fair, a lot of people will probably put me in that group of damaged people as well).

 

Man, you and I have a lot in common... Like at first, when she was saying she wasn't sure about the marriage, and needed to figure some things out, I felt almost a sense of relief, like "Finally, we're getting some stuff out on the table, and we can really work on this at an intimate level together..." And I was ready to be the good guy, give her some space to get her process started, while I stood by, ready and willing to join in. As scary as it started out sounding, I had a certain excitement that it might lead to a new intimacy in our marriage.

 

But then, when it was clear that this affair thing had already been in process for quite some time, and I realized that the "work on things" talk was just a mechanism to ease the discussion eventually towards "I've already decided to leave," I felt that same sense of betrayal. As if I had been presented with a marital challenge that I was ready and willing to address, but that was just a ruse.

 

It is amazing how accurately you nailed what might have been my greatest sense of betrayal with the affair. The initial explanation was my ex-wife telling me about how she needed to be on her own, needed to find herself, needed space. I did not like that, because I did not understand why we could not figure out how to get her what she wanted while still being married. As you said, it was a challenge that I was willing to figure out, because I wanted her to be happy.

 

Honestly, even though I did not want a divorce, at least part of me was okay with it, because I thought that at least I was getting her what she wanted to give her room, find herself, etc. Some part of me thought that we would have some time away, and who knows, perhaps she would get her space and come to realize that she could have her space and personal growth and that it was not exclusive to having me.

 

I even asked her early on if she was having an affair, whether there was someone else in whom she had any type of interest, etc. She actually yelled at me, told me that she did not need someone else, that she did not want someone else, she needed to be on her own, and that she did not need someone else to be happy. She told me that she would not date anyone for a very long time, if ever again. (And of course, she very solidly said, "There is no one else, I'm not interested in anyone else, I need to be on my own.)

 

Then I find out about the affair. I find out that she's texting this co-worker thousands of times in a three month period, chatting with him in online social media, etc.

 

It basically just completely pulled the rug on everything she said to me. It fundamentally made me wonder I could possibly trust about the reasons she gave to me, given that she not just lied to me, but went out of her way to make the lie the exact opposite of what was going on. She didn't need anyone else, didn't want anyone else, she wanted to be alone. But she was meeting this guy for coffee occasionally, talking about going to another city with him, telling him she loved him, etc. Yeah, those are the types of things you do when you don't need or want anyone else, when you don't plan on seeing anyone again, or at least for a very long time.

 

Basically, it wasn't just that she lied, it was that she went so far out of her way to make me feel bad for even asking about it. She could have just lied and said, "I'm not interested in someone else." Instead, she had to actually create this system of embellishments about how she did not need or want anyone, needed to be alone, etc. All while she was pouring herself out to this other guy at the exact same time she was telling me the opposite.

 

A few things struck me from one of your early posts in this thread. From an objective observer (me), there were/are some traits in your wife that make me think that this decision to end the marriage on her part was a logical conclusion for some of her idiosyncrasies. For example, you describe that she kind of did what she wanted and conformed to no one's expectations for as long as you've known her. Of course this was charming at first as you describe but someone who is one to follow their own whims may find marriage stifling after awhile.

 

Also, her tendency to start things and then not finish them, moving on to one thing without finishing another...you described the craft mess in your living room. Well, don't you think this is a simple pre-cursor of what she did to you and your marriage? She worked on it for awhile (a long while-20 years) but got tired of it (that lack of conformity again) or it didn't turn out how how she liked, so like the craft project on the living room floor, rather than cleaning it up-or finishing it properly, she just walked away, leaving a mess behind.

 

Does that sound familiar?

 

I have honestly thought about this. One of the few things she disclosed that bothered her about me was that very early on in the relationship (like when we were married for a year or two at most) once, when she half-emptied the dishwasher and left it open for me to finish, I said, "You don't like to finish things." That apparently really upset her, such that it obviously stuck with her for another 16 years.

 

As I said, I know I can be sarcastic, and when she told me that, the thought jumped to my mind of, "Yes, and you've pretty much ****ing proved me right here, haven't you?"

 

I did not say it, because as I mentioned, I've gotten better over the years at that type of thing and because more importantly, I realized that if it had hurt her so much before, all I would be doing is adding unnecessary hurt by saying that now.

 

This is next part is going to sound shrink-ish (and I'm not a shrink but another infidelity survivor just like you)-I've learned a lot along the way. Did your wife have some sort of trauma in her childhood? Maybe neglect, abuse of some sort, her parents go through a tough divorce, etc? What is her relationship like with her parents now? I know this sounds touchy-feely but family of origin plays a huge role in our lives-good and bad...even for you and me.

 

Yes, she had a very strange background. A very controlling and domineering mother. Her mother actually had an affair on her father at around the same age. Her mother's affair was much worse (well, at least worse than what I know happened with my ex-wife's affair). She basically saw another man for a few years. Slept at his house, went to events with him, etc. It eventually almost became disgustingly open, and she even refused to give it up after my ex-wife's father found out.

 

There is a brilliant poster on LS-Quiet Storm.

I would link the thread here but I don't think we are supposed to do that.

 

Please read some of Quiet Storms posts; she is very insightful. Let me know what you think!

 

I will definitely go do that. Thanks!

[GirlStillStrong]

I haven't read through all the responses yet, just the original post and first couple replies. I just want to say that it has never helped me to: take being dumped personally, try to figure out what went wrong, try to determine what the other person did or did not do or is doing now, point fingers or lay blame, or judge the other person. Unless they tell you point blank why they left or what they did, you can't ever know. Judging gets you nowhere but mired in your own toxic mess. And rehashing things just makes you crazy. People leave for all kinds of reasons and they have all kinds of reasons floating in their heads. A lot of the time they don't know why, except that they're unhappy and think that leaving will give them the chance to fix it. If they're having an affair they think that being with someone ELSE will make them happy. But people don't make you happy, you find happiness yourself, in the way you live your life, in your attitude, in what you do for others.

 

The way you get over it is by accepting. Come to some understanding of whatever has hurt you, and accept that reality as best you can. Therapists are great at helping you with this. Work on you. Make a list of your past accomplishments, make a list of things you'd like to do in the future, make a list of what kind of person you would like to be, or the kind of person you would like to meet. Focusing on trying to figure out WTH XW did or didn't do with some other guy, what she is lying about, what she is not lying about, etc will just make you nuts. Get out and do things. Connect with other people in whatever way is comfortable to you. Volunteer. Feed the hungry. Build a playground. Go to a support group. Take a yoga class. Anything.

[flowergirl14]

I have read all 5 pages and it seems like there are lots of issues going on. One is abandonment and the other is the damage done by the affair. Both are equally horrible.

First, my best friends husband left her out of the blue. They were planning on buying a house. In fact, the day he left they were meeting with a realtor. He refused to work on anthing, refused counseling, wouldn't see her. Nothing! She tried and tried to get him to work on things. He said there wasn't anything wrong with him. She said she was driving and finally had an "ephipany." She could not make him love her back or make him want to work on the marriage. As for closure..she never got it. It has been years now and she has since remarried. The abandonment piece still gives her occasional anxiety. Now she doesn't invest everything she has into anyone. However, she is much happier.

As for the affair your wife had. Ugg! Cheaters are liars. Their actions don't make sense. Good marriages even yours can be ruined by them. They are senseless. Everyone and you included thinks she had an exit affair. However, who is to say there was only one. One or twenty, affairs are by far the worst thing to experience next to death. Her lies and betrayal and the abandonment are terribly sad. There is opportunity for growth here. For sure you will know what you will and won't except in a future partner as well as attributes you want too. Time will help you heal. It looks like your actively trying to move forward!

[elaine567]

I haven't read all of this, but a fair bit of it. It seems to me that probably the wife was at a time of her life when she thought. "Is this all there is?", "Is this my life?"

She most likely went about her marriage for years thinking that she should leave, but why would she leave? Nothing major happened to make it easy to leave. She soldiered on, too scared to make that big decision on her own, hoping something would happen that would catapult her out of the situation and make leaving mandatory.

 

Had you had an affair that would have been her excuse to leave, had you hit her, then she would have been out of there pronto, had you become an alcoholic or gone to jail, then she would have HAD to leave.

But as you did none of those things, then she stuck in there, neither truly unhappy nor happy. Making the best of it.

 

THEN along comes the other man and she sees a way out, a path has become available. It is not a pretty solution, it is not fair on you, but he gave her the lifeline she needed to leave, and she grabbed it with both hands.

[fellini]

Definitely. As long as she continues to believe that this world she lives is has the obligation to please her, or to provide her with the stimulation she thinks she needs to feel good, then she will continue to hunt for a solution that, as 10th clearly states, doesn't exist out there, but is rather always "inside".

 

It is not about settling with someone less than you think you deserve. It is NOT about finding "Mr. Right". It is about knowing how to look inside and REFLECT upon what you see. Not to evaluate what you see inside as a reflection of something missing out "there".

 

But it is also about communion. The true point of a marriage. A marriage is not about ME and You. It is about US. It is about having your own life that is you, where you understand what your baseline happiness that comes from being just YOU with or without the world around you, and how much others bring you NOT by being the peripheral of your universe but by being in communion with those around you. Your family, your best friends, your spouse - the only way a marriage is going to work is if both understand that the marriage is about US, what WE do, not how He or She makes me feel.

 

If after 20 years of marriage someone still does not get it, it is because they don't want to, or simply do not know how to listen. (or as in my case, is a Narcissist so there is little one can do about that).

 

A BS who is still tied to a WS for all the right reasons (values the marriage and is not simply afraid to be cast aside like leftovers) is already aware that they are happy with themselves, and want to have a WE in which someone who is not THEM, does not have to be THEM, or live up to OUR expectations of who they have to be, and can still thrive and increase the level of happiness for BEING a we, well these people naturally want to continue, but they needed to get their spouse on the same page BEFORE it came to this - having her walk away seeking something that was always within her grasp and forever will be.

 

 

One has not to be afraid to let go. Because we never really were holding on to them in the first place. They were not ours to hold.

 

 

 

 

I know you and Realist mean well, but all this completely misses the point, or perpetuates the avoidance of it:

 

Nobody is responsible for you happiness but you. Happiness is not getting what you want, it's the ability to truly appreciate what you already have. This woman has a family, but since she believes - as you do - that she has "changed" along with her "needs", and that those are supposed to be met (or stifled) by the people closest to her in order for her to be happy, she's eager to throw all three of them away to look for happiness "elsewhere" rather than within herself. And she may think she's happy doing something else with someone else for a time, but if she has any conscience at all, it won't last for long. And it's not something to be proud of having left behind as her legacy.

 

The best relationships aren't between people who feel they must "complete" one another to be happy, but between two already emotionally healthy individuals who want to share themselves with one another - never losing your individuality or your qualities that attracted you in the first place. Never "expecting" the other to "make you happy."

 

-10th Engineer Harrison

[fellini]

Yes. This is what Michelle Langley claims: After bringing our daughters up from Barbie through Disney through Teenage angst through romantic comedies, to believe in the Happily Ever After myth, we have to recognise one very important thing: There is nothing for us after the honeymoon.

 

"Is this all there is?" Yes, because at this point we have almost NOTHING to desire. We teach a lot about how to get there, but there is dear little to guide us through what we can expect when the knot has been tied. And as Langley discloses, in many many women this is a massive disappointment having clung to a myth for so long.

 

I haven't read all of this, but a fair bit of it. It seems to me that probably the wife was at a time of her life when she thought. "Is this all there is?", "Is this my life?"

She most likely went about her marriage for years thinking that she should leave, but why would she leave? Nothing major happened to make it easy to leave. She soldiered on, too scared to make that big decision on her own, hoping something would happen that would catapult her out of the situation and make leaving mandatory.

 

Had you had an affair that would have been her excuse to leave, had you hit her, then she would have been out of there pronto, had you become an alcoholic or gone to jail, then she would have HAD to leave.

But as you did none of those things, then she stuck in there, neither truly unhappy nor happy. Making the best of it.

 

THEN along comes the other man and she sees a way out, a path has become available. It is not a pretty solution, it is not fair on you, but he gave her the lifeline she needed to leave, and she grabbed it with both hands.

[prekopsian]

THEN along comes the other man and she sees a way out, a path has become available. It is not a pretty solution, it is not fair on you, but he gave her the lifeline she needed to leave, and she grabbed it with both hands.

 

I struggle to buy this idea, I really do. That an intelligent women lives with an unhappy relationship, and she's paralysed with indecision until the other man arrives on the scene. I expect this happens on occasion, but I rarely think it applies.

 

I believe, in the majority of circumstances, that the wayward partner finds themselves in an affair and then reinvents – rewrites – their relationship history in order to justify their indiscretion. I -was- never happy. I -had- issues with the marriage. Why don't they ever bring it to the table? They don't because they didn't. The marriage had to be failing, otherwise they'd be reprehensible people. And who wants to admit that?

 

P.

Edited November 21, 2014 by prekopsian

[elaine567]

"Is this all there is?" Yes, because at this point we have almost NOTHING to desire. We teach a lot about how to get there, but there is dear little to guide us through what we can expect when the knot has been tied. And as Langley discloses, in many many women this is a massive disappointment having clung to a myth for so long.

 

Exactly, there are few movies that are upbeat about married life, most "married" movies contain heart wrenching stuff about sick kids and dying spouses, or dreary stuff about the grimness of marriage, or spiced up content with affairs and mistresses.

The usual result being that either the BS is left holding the baby and hooks up with some dreary man, whilst the man whisks off his new "hot" bride to a life of happily ever after.

 

Or the WS does the "right thing", but will always truly love the OM/OW and looks wistfully off after him/her.

 

The married couple may get back together, but that is through duty and honour and therefore the "right thing" is seen to have been done, for the kids, for the good of the country...

 

The marriage is rarely portrayed as the good thing, it is the compromise, the honourable path, the stuff of soldiering on through adversity.

It is not usually portrayed as being fun and exciting past the wedding frock.

Wives and mothers are often seen as ageing, frumpy complainers and whiners, poor specimens in comparison to the "hot" women that are seen as desirable.

 

Women having been brought up to be the princess, then often find themselves after marriage, adopting the role of Cinderella with no fancy ball to go to and no prince on the horizon either. There are no fairy godmothers.

[Supernaught16]

Emotionally you are not free. You have 20 years of your life with this woman. You think you can just mentally and emotionally pack up do as you please and be free?

 

I'm in the same situation as you. However, when I caught my wife with the affair, phone call to be specific, I told her, you can make a choice, me or him. She said me. I gave her the ultimatum, you talk to him one more time and Im done with you forever.

 

It took four days for her to initiate and call him. I dropped her.

 

Now. I can't sleep. Right now it's 5:05am and I havent slept. Not even the night before last I haven't slept. It's been five weeks on NC, it's been about two days since I could eat again.

 

It's been less than 14 hours since I thought about my death.

 

And about five minutes since I prayed that she doesnt contact me on Thanksgiving, Christmas or my bday/ Valentines Day (same day).

 

I called a friend of mine tonight and he has been with his girl longer than I have and he has the same story as I have and I found out he broke up with her 2.5 months ago and hearing him talk about it made me feel better. So maybe that would help. I wrote about 160 pages worth of hateful poetry toward her. That didn't help.

 

I really dont know. I love her and I dont know what to say man.

 

Make a milestone for yourself of NC... I told myself after Valentines Day/ my birthday if there is still NC (meaning she doesnt hunt me down) then Ill be over her.

 

peace and love brotha man.

[elaine567]

I struggle to buy this idea, I really do. That an intelligent women lives with an unhappy relationship, and she's paralysed with indecision until the other man arrives on the scene. I expect this happens on occasion, but I rarely think it applies.

 

I believe, in the majority of circumstances, that the wayward partner finds themselves in an affair and then reinvents – rewrites – their relationship history in order to justify their indiscretion. I -was- never happy. I -had- issues with the marriage. Why don't they ever bring it to the table? They don't because they didn't. The marriage had to be failing, otherwise they'd be reprehensible people. And who wants to admit that?

 

P.

 

I know a lot of women who are in marriages that are not what they want, if they had a free choice, and I do not think it is all about intelligence.

Marriages bring complications. Houses, children, money.

Those complications all need thought about before a woman makes the decision to go.

A woman on her own, one salary, no help with the kids for instance, is going to struggle, not impossible but struggle she will, and weighing up the choice some women just choose to stay.

She is not "paralysed with indecision", she just doesn't have enough of a stimulus to go.

 

BUT if a new man enters the scene, she can then see the path clearer ahead to just go.

[prekopsian]

I know a lot of women who are in marriages that are not what they want, if they had a free choice, and I do not think it is all about intelligence.

 

Hi Elaine567

 

They do have a free choice! We all do.

 

If we become unhappy with our partnerships we can speak up, or we can end them.

 

Scores of dissatisfied partners waiting for an alternative mate so they can jettison their bad relationships? I do hope not. Most people are better than that, I'm certain.

 

P.

[Striver]

I know a lot of women who are in marriages that are not what they want, if they had a free choice, and I do not think it is all about intelligence.

Marriages bring complications. Houses, children, money.

Those complications all need thought about before a woman makes the decision to go.

A woman on her own, one salary, no help with the kids for instance, is going to struggle, not impossible but struggle she will, and weighing up the choice some women just choose to stay.

She is not "paralysed with indecision", she just doesn't have enough of a stimulus to go.

 

BUT if a new man enters the scene, she can then see the path clearer ahead to just go.

 

Good grief.

 

Bored people are boring. People who are unhappy in marriages are usually not very good partners. Read this thread. All of these fabulous women can just not marry and have children with all of these awful men instead of the constant shifting around so they can build new resentments.

 

I'm really sorry, but the constant focus on unhappiness - enough. The CIO is unhappy because he didn't make CEO, and though his wife was Miss Texas, that was 15 years ago, and he's so unhappy looking at a body that's very good looking for a woman in her late 30s when he can look at one that's very good looking for a woman in her mid 20s. He's so, so unhappy. Please think of the poor CIO whose salary is only in seven figures instead of eight.

 

I only care about objective happiness - if the average person would be unhappy in a situation, I can relate. This piling up of petty resentments isn't worth discussing.