When it rains it pours

[venusishername]

Venus, why are you so dead-set against moving to NOLA and getting your own place? It almost sounds as though you want the relationship to crash and burn.... either because you both decide that another year of LDR won't cut it or because you force him into a proposal (and wedding date) when neither of you have a clue what day-to-day with each other looks like.

Why?

 

Why?

Because I am dead set against putting myself in a position again with a man who isn't sure about giving me the commitment that I am looking for. I'm not messing around anymore. If he wants to be together, he can move here. If he wants to be together, and doesn't want to move here, he knows I'm not going to be easily convinced to just pack up and move out to Louisiana. Even to get my own place.

 

I would rather hold on to my independence, good job, and my place that I love until I am sure that I am willing to give that up - for the commitment I want.

I think the best answer I can offer to your question of 'why' is because...

I am willing to risk being alone and the relationship "crashing and burning" before I risk settling for anything less than the commitment I am looking for. Let's say he proposed. I would be more willing to move out there and get my own place, sure. In fact, that might make me feel more comfortable than moving in with him, being engaged, and not knowing how we can operate day to day.

 

I don't know how much more clear I can be. I'm not interested in being a girlfriend anymore. I want to be a wife. I realize that is not something that can be forced or rushed. However by one year's time I believe it is sufficient time to know whether or not both parties want the same thing with each other.

 

I realize my mindset is old fashioned. I wasn't always this way and I regret my choices.

Edited June 8, 2016 by venusishername

[lana-banana]

Didn't you say his daughter lives with him, or am I just making that up? If so I don't see any way he could move out to California.

[introverted1]

Why?

Let's say he proposed. I would be more willing to move out there and get my own place, sure.

 

This makes sense. I did not realise this was an option for you based on your previous post.

[venusishername]

Didn't you say his daughter lives with him, or am I just making that up? If so I don't see any way he could move out to California.

 

Correct. She moved in with him a couple months ago. So he's in no hurry to leave, his main concern is keeping an eye on her.

[lana-banana]

He has a son in the state, he lives with his daughter, and his daughter has been sufficiently rebellious or defiant to the point where he needs to keep an eye on her. I think it's unrealistic if not bordering on selfish to know that and yet want him to move. He genuinely couldn't leave even if he wanted to.

 

That aside, I think the idea of being engaged and then moving to your own place down there isn't the worst idea. I still believe it'd be better to establish your day-to-day compatibility prior to an engagement, but engagements can be broken in a snap. You should raise the idea. But would he agree? It sounds like he thinks once you're engaged you're going to move to be with him. He might interpret this as moving the goalposts. Still, you should tell him and see what he says.

 

I don't know how much more clear I can be. I'm not interested in being a girlfriend anymore. I want to be a wife.

 

The focus shouldn't be about a girlfriend or a wife, it's about being HIS girlfriend or HIS wife.

 

However by one year's time I believe it is sufficient time to know whether or not both parties want the same thing with each other.

 

I agree with this in principle*, but that doesn't mean both parties can be on the same page at the same time. I've said it before and I'll say it again: there's a gap between the moment when you know you want to get engaged and actually being engaged. You have to have serious discussions about living arrangements, talk to parents (if you're old-fashioned like my boyfriend), and plunk down at least some of the cash for a ring. Given his precarious financial situation and new living arrangements with his daughter, it's fair to assume he may need a little while longer than most men.

 

 

* = Even so a year in a long-distance relationship just isn't the same as a year in a regular relationship. Part of love is learning how to tolerate the little things your partner does that drive you absolutely bananas, and you don't see those little things over the course of occasional vacation visits. So much of love is built on the little moments when you walk to the store together in sweatpants, sit together after an argument in awkward frustrated silence, or do crosswords at the DMV.

[mortensorchid]

I wish I had had such luck as you but I have not. I wish there was a magic button to push to make it all good but there isn't, for any of us.

[venusishername]

9 more days....

 

And these past 2+ months have not been without some bumps in the road.

I think that the long distance is really wearing its welcome. I'm ready to either progress things forward or consider cutting the ties. I know that after this upcoming visit, things will be clear.

I think that there are times that the relationship has experienced strain, due to the distance mainly, of course. I've experienced jealousy, neediness, insecurity, doubt and much, much frustration. A lot of loneliness. I know he has too, I feel I think too much and more than most people, so I have probably suffered more needlessly than he has.

 

This relationship has taught me some great lessons in maturity, I'll say that much. I learned from my past mistakes there is no doubt. I remain firm in my stance about not moving there unless we have an engagement. Even then, I would still get my own place until we had a wedding date. I'm not interested in a long drawn out engagement. If that happens, I am also going to insist that we go to pre-marital counseling, including financial counseling.

 

He continues to talk about it (marriage), in general terms. It is clear to me that it is on his mind. He let the word 'wife' slip the other day when referring to something I do that he likes, etc. Basically instead of saying "girlfriend" he said "wife" when he was referring to me. This shows me that it is on his mind. He has asked me about weddings and we have talked about it on several occasions. That has never happened with any boyfriend in my past.

 

I think about what it would be like to actually live there and really be "in" this. None of this long distance crap anymore. I'm so over it. I told myself I wanted to give a year to give this a chance. We are almost 9 (OMG!!) months in. I can't believe we made it. I never thought that would happen. I remember thinking after our first date that I'd probably never see him again, because that's what I'd been used to dating guys in my own city. It's such a shame that I never met anyone here that was really into me and vice versa. Honestly, no other guy in my life has pursued me as he has. I guess that makes all the difference. I get approached and flirted with here and there. But no one ever stuck their neck out and pursued me like he has, so he's kept himself at the front of the line all this time.

 

There are a couple things as far as lifestyle and for lack of a better term, choices and habits, that may present some tesnion or source for conflict between us. Without living together, or even living in the same city, I have already become aware of these 'issues'. This is something i will need to sit down and talk to him about, so we can be in harmony about it. There is give and take, but there are some areas that I'm not willing to budge on.

Sometimes I wonder if he's the right fit for me. He is in many ways, but I guess what I mean is, what am I really looking for, what is REALLY important, and do I have confidence that he can rise to that occasion.

 

I always thought I'd end up (and want to end up) with someone like my stepfather or grandpa, home at the same time every day, same schedule, consistent, breadwinner, always the same. Never changing.

My boyfriend is absent minded and free spirited, eccentric. I wonder if he'd be coming home every day from work and having dinner with me and the kid, or I'd be shouldering it alone, and getting upset that his schedule took him away from me on my days off. I think about whether we would go to bed and wake up at the same time. I think that's important. Things like that. I want to do family day on Sundays. I want to take maternity leave and not have to worry about paying the bills during that time.

I want to be sure he will pull his weight and I won't ever ever feel like I have to monitor or control the home issues with an iron fist (i.e. money). I'm not sure I want all that responsibility. What is he bringing to the table if I'm the one in charge of organization and management?

I am very sure that I can take care of myself, which is why I hesitate to join with someone who has already shown signs of irresponsibility/carelessness and is just different from me in many ways as far as the way we live day to day. I'm not sure sometimes if it IS a good fit, or if it's something that we can learn to work through.

 

I'll be posting more within the week before he gets here.

[No_Go]

9 days will pass by fast:)

 

Did you get back on track with communication?

 

What are the lifestyle issues? Is that the irregular schedule that you describe?

 

But one thing pops up from this post... So many conditions! You'll do this if he does that... Is he similarly demanding? It almost feels like you want a husband, this guy showed interest and therefore you want to mold him into husband material... Do you want to marry / live with the guy that he is as of today? Would you accept him as he is, with his flaws?

 

9 more days....

 

And these past 2+ months have not been without some bumps in the road.

I think that the long distance is really wearing its welcome. I'm ready to either progress things forward or consider cutting the ties. I know that after this upcoming visit, things will be clear.

I think that there are times that the relationship has experienced strain, due to the distance mainly, of course. I've experienced jealousy, neediness, insecurity, doubt and much, much frustration. A lot of loneliness. I know he has too, I feel I think too much and more than most people, so I have probably suffered more needlessly than he has.

 

This relationship has taught me some great lessons in maturity, I'll say that much. I learned from my past mistakes there is no doubt. I remain firm in my stance about not moving there unless we have an engagement. Even then, I would still get my own place until we had a wedding date. I'm not interested in a long drawn out engagement. If that happens, I am also going to insist that we go to pre-marital counseling, including financial counseling.

 

He continues to talk about it (marriage), in general terms. It is clear to me that it is on his mind. He let the word 'wife' slip the other day when referring to something I do that he likes, etc. Basically instead of saying "girlfriend" he said "wife" when he was referring to me. This shows me that it is on his mind. He has asked me about weddings and we have talked about it on several occasions. That has never happened with any boyfriend in my past.

 

I think about what it would be like to actually live there and really be "in" this. None of this long distance crap anymore. I'm so over it. I told myself I wanted to give a year to give this a chance. We are almost 9 (OMG!!) months in. I can't believe we made it. I never thought that would happen. I remember thinking after our first date that I'd probably never see him again, because that's what I'd been used to dating guys in my own city. It's such a shame that I never met anyone here that was really into me and vice versa. Honestly, no other guy in my life has pursued me as he has. I guess that makes all the difference. I get approached and flirted with here and there. But no one ever stuck their neck out and pursued me like he has, so he's kept himself at the front of the line all this time.

 

There are a couple things as far as lifestyle and for lack of a better term, choices and habits, that may present some tesnion or source for conflict between us. Without living together, or even living in the same city, I have already become aware of these 'issues'. This is something i will need to sit down and talk to him about, so we can be in harmony about it. There is give and take, but there are some areas that I'm not willing to budge on.

Sometimes I wonder if he's the right fit for me. He is in many ways, but I guess what I mean is, what am I really looking for, what is REALLY important, and do I have confidence that he can rise to that occasion.

 

I always thought I'd end up (and want to end up) with someone like my stepfather or grandpa, home at the same time every day, same schedule, consistent, breadwinner, always the same. Never changing.

My boyfriend is absent minded and free spirited, eccentric. I wonder if he'd be coming home every day from work and having dinner with me and the kid, or I'd be shouldering it alone, and getting upset that his schedule took him away from me on my days off. I think about whether we would go to bed and wake up at the same time. I think that's important. Things like that. I want to do family day on Sundays. I want to take maternity leave and not have to worry about paying the bills during that time.

I want to be sure he will pull his weight and I won't ever ever feel like I have to monitor or control the home issues with an iron fist (i.e. money). I'm not sure I want all that responsibility. What is he bringing to the table if I'm the one in charge of organization and management?

I am very sure that I can take care of myself, which is why I hesitate to join with someone who has already shown signs of irresponsibility/carelessness and is just different from me in many ways as far as the way we live day to day. I'm not sure sometimes if it IS a good fit, or if it's something that we can learn to work through.

 

I'll be posting more within the week before he gets here.

[lana-banana]

As No_Go said, the time will fly by. I hope all your pretty dresses are laid out and ready to go!

 

I know that after this upcoming visit, things will be clear.

 

Forgive my bluntness, but I doubt it. This is still a trip, a vacation, a time away from your normal adult responsibilities where you'll both be on your best behavior and full of lovey-dovey sentiment. I really don't think you're going to be any clearer until you're working together as a regular couple.

 

I'm not interested in a long drawn out engagement. If that happens, I am also going to insist that we go to pre-marital counseling, including financial counseling.

 

YAYAYAYAYAYAY for premarital counseling, especially financial counseling. Good for you! Although what do you think constitutes a "long drawn out engagement"?

 

He has asked me about weddings and we have talked about it on several occasions. That has never happened with any boyfriend in my past.

 

This just breaks my heart. If you're a marriage-minded person you should have no problem finding another marriage-minded partner (substitute that for any other significant shared life value). You should never waste your time on someone who isn't as serious about a future as you are.

 

I always thought I'd end up (and want to end up) with someone like my stepfather or grandpa, home at the same time every day, same schedule, consistent, breadwinner, always the same. Never changing.

My boyfriend is absent minded and free spirited, eccentric. I wonder if he'd be coming home every day from work and having dinner with me and the kid, or I'd be shouldering it alone, and getting upset that his schedule took him away from me on my days off. I think about whether we would go to bed and wake up at the same time. I think that's important. Things like that. I want to do family day on Sundays. I want to take maternity leave and not have to worry about paying the bills during that time.

 

I'm sure you guys will find lots of ways to compromise and work things out in the course of your relationship, but this may not be something either of you can change. So long as he's working as a contractor with an unpredictable schedule and income, asking for something like "family day every Sunday" is probably not in the cards. Maybe you can do family dinners and schedule family time as his work allows---whether that's lunch, a day in the park, or at home.

[venusishername]

Forgive my bluntness, but I doubt it. This is still a trip, a vacation, a time away from your normal adult responsibilities where you'll both be on your best behavior and full of lovey-dovey sentiment. I really don't think you're going to be any clearer until you're working together as a regular couple.

I just meant that it will be clear whether things are progressing and we still want to invest time, effort, and planning into this long distance relationship. Soon, something is going to have to give. But clearly we can't move forward without spending time like this together. I know what you meant though.

 

Although what do you think constitutes a "long drawn out engagement"?

Anything longer than one year. My preference is to have a short engagement, probably around 6 months.

 

This just breaks my heart. If you're a marriage-minded person you should have no problem finding another marriage-minded partner (substitute that for any other significant shared life value). You should never waste your time on someone who isn't as serious about a future as you are.

No kidding. But I wasn't in this place until a year or so ago anyway. I had to spend time single (meaning dating many/no boyfriend) before I found another real relationship where I would even consider or even talk about marriage. That's why nothing lasted.

When I met this guy, I was more clear than ever that I was taking it very seriously and was looking for marriage and a family. I thought it might scare him off, but it turns out (and as far as I know) he is looking for the same thing. Which was never a conversation I had with my previous relationships... likely because I never was so sure about wanting it until recently.

 

[lana-banana]

Have a lovely trip, Venus. We're thinking of you and wishing you well!

[Weezy1973]

Just from the sounds of what I'm reading Venus, it sounds like you might be more interested in marriage and kids in general, than marrying this particular guy. Do you think that might be the case?

 

I think it's great to know what you want in a relationship, but also that should give you the courage to end things if they're not right. Just because he's really into you and doesn't get scared by the thought of marriage doesn't mean it's a good fit. His free spirited nature, for example, might be a major compatibility issue. Just make sure that the has the traits that you're really looking for in a lifelong partner before committing to anything...

[Eighty_nine]

Let us know how your trip goes!

[sagamore]

How did it all go? I check in here periodically just to see updates from you!

[venusishername]

Just from the sounds of what I'm reading Venus, it sounds like you might be more interested in marriage and kids in general, than marrying this particular guy. Do you think that might be the case?

 

I think it's great to know what you want in a relationship, but also that should give you the courage to end things if they're not right. Just because he's really into you and doesn't get scared by the thought of marriage doesn't mean it's a good fit. His free spirited nature, for example, might be a major compatibility issue. Just make sure that the has the traits that you're really looking for in a lifelong partner before committing to anything...

 

Weezy, I think there is some truth in your observation.

 

 

I do want to get married and have kids, but I do also want it to be with the right guy. I have never found what I'm looking for. But- I also don't want to regret passing up an opportunity when it is right in front of me either. Maybe some of the things I thought I wanted or the kind of guy I thought I'd end up with isn't exactly turning out as I planned, and maybe I should embrace what is in front of me instead of comparing and chasing something that may not ever come to me, or be available, or holding out for years more and still ending up alone. I regret saying 'no' to some guys in my life who were really into me, cared about me, and wanted to be with me, because they fell short in some way in my book. I regret giving my attention to guys that didn't really love me. I know that my guy really does. And I think that he does have many of the qualities I am looking for in a lifelong partner. Some qualities aren't what I thought I was looking for. Some things I'm not still not sure about, maybe I'm not yet convinced. I do think that I have marriage and a family on my mind much more than I used to, so I think that influences who I date, obviously.

 

So, sorry to keep you all in suspense but I've had a long week. He left a couple days ago, after spending a week together. We went out of the country to his family wedding. It was incredible, and I had an amazing time. We really had an incredible time together. He said it was the best vacation he ever had. His son was with him, so although there were times that I wish we had more one on one than the bedroom, I also really loved the feeling of being part of a family. Not only with his son, but with his entire family. We even spent time with my mom too when we got back. I laughed a lot, I'm still just as attracted to him as before, we have a great connection and we do love each other.

 

The trip and the time preceding has not been without some hurdles. We got in a spat at the airport when I got upset about him paying the taxi driver money without thinking about how much it was in the exchange rate. It bugged me that he didn't plan things out as well as I would have, had I been in charge of communicating with all the family members arriving at the airport and arranging the transportation from the airport. He said he had it handled and it worked out, but it just grated on me and caused some unnecessary frustration. Next time, I will be the one in charge

It took me aback at times that he can be kind of loud and sometimes inappropriate in public settings, just drawing attention to himself, wearing ankle weights to the beach, and carrying a polka dot bag that he picked up in the alley. The free spirited part. He's not hurting anyone, and he's not embarrassing me. But sometimes I wish he would be more refined. To have the common knowledge to bring a tie to a wedding, and a shirt that didn't have a rust stain on the back. Sometimes I would look at his male cousins with their wives and think... I wish he could be more sophisticated and reserved like so and so. But then again, they aren't like him either. They don't have the life that he does, or the exuberance, or show the affection he does. I realized I'm comparing too much. But can I live with these qualities, like Weezy pointed out. I think I can.

On the flip side, he is funny, kind, genuine, friendly, and genuinely cares about making me happy. He is attentive and loving, and in a way, dotes on me very much. Those are all things I am looking for. He is a great father, and to see the closeness he shares with his son is heartwarming.

During this trip, I got to see the good, the bad, and the ugly. Taking overnight flights and not able to reach your ride to take you four hours away by shuttle brings out a lot of stress, and we felt that. Traveling together is a good lesson in a relationship. But I thought we did it well.

I got upset about the taxi, and voiced my upset in front of his son, my bf gave me a disapproving look for the first time, and I knew I had upset him by doing that. I find I have some deep seeded issues with money in a relationship, and I think this may be a major cause of conflict between us, because he's not good with it. He has the money, he's just careless about it. I watched him spend freely on his son, spoiling him, insisting to pay for more than his share when we split the cab, etc. He just doesn't think. To be honest, I think that the hyperactivity is a huge part of it. Maybe he just never had someone that voiced concerns about it, considering he was only married for less than 5 years and has mostly been a bachelor all his life.

I mentioned his ADD earlier here, it is often evident when I spend time with him. He gets manic, loud, demanding, and frantic. His son suggested that when that happens, just tell him to snap out of it, if he is wrong. If he's not doing or saying anything blatantly wrong, just tell him that he can be free to do what he likes, and that I will be handling the situation differently. Here's an example. He got very hyper and demanding that we be on a specific schedule, and that we HAD to do this at this time, it would take x amount of time to get to the next destination, we have to go right now, hurry up, we can't relax, etc. This happened before when I was in NOLA once. The solution is for me to stay calm and tell him why I disagree, that I don't want to be on that timeline, I don't think it's necessary, and if he would like to do that, please go ahead but I won't be participating. It works, and he stops. But this happens occasionally, so I need to be sure I can handle it.

 

 

I think there were some traits, behaviors, and well, quirks, that I saw that while on my turf and in an unfamiliar setting, just stood out more than they have before. Also spending one week together, this is the longest out of all our times together. On the other hand, we do work well together as a team, I think, and we had a great time. Being with his family was wonderful and especially spending time talking and being with his son and him together was probably the best part. Of course, being alone with him was wonderful, but honestly, I felt like I was part of a family being with him, and this is exactly what I want. I know that they have already welcomed me, and love me, and are getting to know me, and he talks openly to them about us, me, our future, etc. So- when weighing everything... I am leaning far more towards sticking this out. He's not perfect. He's not sophisticated or refined. Sometimes he's inappropriate and well, eccentric. But he's a good man, and he loves me. I know that he would want to do what would make me happy. He makes me realize that I need to have more patience and acceptance.. these are things I need to work on anyway. I guess he makes me want to be a better person.

 

 

While we were with my mom, his son asked about her wedding ring. She was talking about it and my bf looked at me and the jewelry I was wearing, and said that he knows that I like gold. He also told my mom and a couple of his relatives at the wedding that he wanted to propose or elope with me in Mexico but he didn't want to upstage the wedding. I mean, that's just talk and not action, obviously, but he's definitely thinking about it, there is no doubt about that.

 

 

After he got home, that night he called and said, "well, now we need to figure out the details of how we are going to be living together." He said he is getting frustrated because I keep saying "no". I told him I'm not saying no, I reiterated my reasoning for not moving in with him. I reminded him that as he can see, I have a lot I'd be giving up to move there, to move in with him, with no promise or commitment. I don't feel that's wise for me to do. I would like to live with him, but I won't change my mind about that. He still uses the argument that wouldn't it be better if we lived together first to see if it would work out day by day, before committing to getting married, etc. I see his point, and it is totally valid. If he lived down the street, I might be more likely to consider it. But I'm the one who would have to move, initially, and I'm not sure he realizes how stubborn I am. I wonder sometimes if he thinks he's going to break me down and get me to cave. He's got something coming to him, I hardly ever change my mind once I've made it. I think what it comes down to, is that both of us aren't really sure that we are ready to make that leap. We do love each other, but I think there are some things on both sides that are causing both of us some reservations.

We talked about finances, joint accounts, planning for another international vacation, how we would like to have our home life, for example I would like to know that he has a steady and predictable work schedule, or at least be on a similar schedule as far as going to bed, waking up, being home for dinner, having a date night, having a family weekend day. I mean, we can only talk about these things as they come up, it can't be a list of questions right off the bat. We are both learning, and that takes time.

 

 

He doesn't seem like he's going to give up easily on trying to convince me to move there. I have a couple more months, not long, before I need to renew my lease. He's well aware of that deadline. I'm curious to see what will happen next.

 

 

We have not yet planned our next visit.. Usually it takes about 3-4 weeks after we see each other to make a plan and buy plane tickets. I told him I'm not making any more vacations out of CA this year, other than the one I already have plans for with my girlfriends in the end of October. So I would guess that he will either fly out here again, or we can meet somewhere else before then. I really don't want to wait more than 2 months again. That was too hard, and I was getting jealous a lot, and feeling really insecure and lonely.

 

 

I'm just letting it all sink in now, no need to over think it, nothing needs to be more than what it is right now.

[lana-banana]

It sounds like you had an amazing vacation! We've been thinking about a trip to Mexico this winter so don't be surprised if I hit you up for recommendations.

 

The "can we make it or not" phase is both exciting and stressful, and I imagine it's much harder when you're long-distance. You have to determine where your partner's behaviors fall on the spectrum of annoying to insufferable and how you can put up with them.

 

I mentioned his ADD earlier here, it is often evident when I spend time with him. He gets manic, loud, demanding, and frantic. His son suggested that when that happens, just tell him to snap out of it, if he is wrong. ...The solution is for me to stay calm and tell him why I disagree, that I don't want to be on that timeline, I don't think it's necessary, and if he would like to do that, please go ahead but I won't be participating. It works, and he stops. But this happens occasionally, so I need to be sure I can handle it.

 

This would be an absolute dealbreaker for me because it sounds more like parenting than dating, and I think it's no good that his (young, right?) son is so aware of it. But that's also entirely my preference. Lord knows there are tons of things about me that plenty of men probably can't stand! At any rate, it's good you recognize this is going to be a recurrent issue. Do you think you'll be able to cope with it in the long run?

 

I guess he makes me want to be a better person.

 

If you mean it when you say this---really and truly mean it, not just "well, I guess so"---then crack open a bottle of champagne because this is your Mr. Right.

 

After he got home, that night he called and said, "well, now we need to figure out the details of how we are going to be living together." He said he is getting frustrated because I keep saying "no". I told him I'm not saying no, I reiterated my reasoning for not moving in with him. I reminded him that as he can see, I have a lot I'd be giving up to move there, to move in with him, with no promise or commitment. I don't feel that's wise for me to do. I would like to live with him, but I won't change my mind about that. He still uses the argument that wouldn't it be better if we lived together first to see if it would work out day by day, before committing to getting married, etc. I see his point, and it is totally valid. If he lived down the street, I might be more likely to consider it. But I'm the one who would have to move, initially, and I'm not sure he realizes how stubborn I am. I wonder sometimes if he thinks he's going to break me down and get me to cave. He's got something coming to him, I hardly ever change my mind once I've made it. I think what it comes down to, is that both of us aren't really sure that we are ready to make that leap. We do love each other, but I think there are some things on both sides that are causing both of us some reservations.

 

Honestly, I think he's just as stubborn as you are. What about getting your own place down there for a few months? Is that still completely out of the question? It seems like the only way you're going to move forward.

 

We talked about finances, joint accounts, planning for another international vacation, how we would like to have our home life, for example I would like to know that he has a steady and predictable work schedule, or at least be on a similar schedule as far as going to bed, waking up, being home for dinner, having a date night, having a family weekend day.

 

Is this feasible for him? I know lots of people with steady and predictable work schedules, but none of them work in construction. Would he need a total career change?

 

I have a couple more months, not long, before I need to renew my lease. He's well aware of that deadline. I'm curious to see what will happen next...I told him I'm not making any more vacations out of CA this year, other than the one I already have plans for with my girlfriends in the end of October. So I would guess that he will either fly out here again, or we can meet somewhere else before then...I'm just letting it all sink in now, no need to over think it, nothing needs to be more than what it is right now.

 

All of these statements read like you're deliberately being passive in hopes of forcing him to propose. It comes off as game-playing and it's not attractive. It does make me think that you're more interested in marriage than necessarily being married to him. Also, in light of the fact that you still don't know him that well yet, it's a potentially disastrous move. I would be very careful if I were you.

[No_Go]

Indeed I'm also puzzled what this stubbornness is achieving - eventual forced proposal? That can be btw broken anytime after the respective move, leading to an incredible mess (I've been there - with an ex t- where I had to break up a lease very soon after moving in... I have a very lengthy thread about it in the start of my LS time).

 

The son seems to be teasing a lot, which I guess is forgivable for a teen/young adult, but still disturbing.

 

I am curious how is this going to play out but I kind of see only one resolution if moving in the same state is out of question, and it is more frequent visits. Yes, an uncomfortable solution, and expensive, but still cheaper then breaking a lease and having to move back after things face to face reveal not being too rosy, engagement present or not.

 

The only LTR that ended up in a 'quick' success and started as LTR (it is different if there was a solid 'base') that i know - they were in different European countries (3-4 h flight) and religiously, without exception visited each other 2 x each month for 4 days - i.e. Thu-Sun. That way it wasn't all peaches and roses, they were together on working days as a regular couple and got to know each other. Having said that - they were also VERY pressed with time because both were approaching 40 and wanted to have biological kids, and it still took I think 1.5 years or so to proposal.

 

Honestly, I think he's just as stubborn as you are. What about getting your own place down there for a few months? Is that still completely out of the question? It seems like the only way you're going to move forward.

...

All of these statements read like you're deliberately being passive in hopes of forcing him to propose. It comes off as game-playing and it's not attractive. It does make me think that you're more interested in marriage than necessarily being married to him. Also, in light of the fact that you still don't know him that well yet, it's a potentially disastrous move. I would be very careful if I were you.

[clia]

I can see both sides to it. I can't really imagine getting engaged to someone after spending so little time together in person, but on the other hand you have to give up a lot to move there in order to spend more time together in person. There is really no great resolution and he doesn't seem inclined to move to you, so how do you see this playing out? Are you really ready to get engaged to him? To drop your life and move there?

 

I'm also curious about his trips to visit you, which have all involved heavy family time and family events. (I believe Thanksgiving, Christmas, and now a wedding.). Are these trips he would've taken anyway, if he had never met you? His son has also been with him on the past two trips. It almost feels like you are skipping a bunch of steps. Although family time is important, have you gotten enough one on one time with him in person? Being around others can really mask things. I think his next trip to you should focus on the two of you, not his son, not his family. JMO.

[venusishername]

It sounds like you had an amazing vacation! We've been thinking about a trip to Mexico this winter so don't be surprised if I hit you up for recommendations.

Definitely! I can't wait to go back. It's so amazing there. Now I'm thinking a lot about traveling... more international travel soon. He and I are now talking about South America, and maybe Mexico again next year. I started looking into Greece! I really want to do it now, and not wait.

 

The "can we make it or not" phase is both exciting and stressful, and I imagine it's much harder when you're long-distance. You have to determine where your partner's behaviors fall on the spectrum of annoying to insufferable and how you can put up with them.

Yup. That's where I'm at, and I think he feels the same... of course I'm not perfect either and I guess the more time goes by we see more of the imperfections. Now to determine whether it's something we can put up with and how.

 

Do you think you'll be able to cope with it in the long run?

Hmm. Some things grated on me, but it was passing, and I had to brush it off. I can be pretty uptight anyway so I need to work on being more patient and accepting anyway. To answer your question though.. I don't know. Maybe only time will tell.

 

If you mean it when you say this---really and truly mean it, not just "well, I guess so"---then crack open a bottle of champagne because this is your Mr. Right.

Yes, I think I really do mean it. He makes me want to be a better, stronger, more healthy, motivated, adventurous, independent, patient, happy... woman. He's said the same thing about me.. I mean, that means something right, like you say. To say it is one thing but to really believe it is another. I can say that I do.

 

Honestly, I think he's just as stubborn as you are. What about getting your own place down there for a few months? Is that still completely out of the question? It seems like the only way you're going to move forward.

Yeah, I think it's either me getting my own place for a short time, or me taking a one month leave of absence, pay for my rent here while I'm gone, and decide if moving there into my own place after a month is a good idea.

I'm terrified of giving up my job and my place that I love, never to see either one again, not knowing if I would even want to live with him. I mean.... now, I think it would be really nice.... but it's just a huge adjustment and what it comes down to is just a big old risk either way.

 

Is this feasible for him? I know lots of people with steady and predictable work schedules, but none of them work in construction. Would he need a total career change?

No, and he doesn't work in construction but I guess any blue collar generality would apply. No, he wouldn't change his career either. He's basically an independent contractor, which means he works for the union on contract, or has his own side jobs when the union job ends or in between. For the most part, he's in charge of his own schedule, when not for the union. Sometimes he's up at 5 a.m. and works til 3, occasionally he will work on Saturdays, sometimes he will be off for a few days during the week, every day that I've physically been with him though, he is on the phone with people related to work. He has consistent connections in New Orleans and business contacts there. So no, I don't expect him to change careers at this point, Lana. What he can do is many times arrange his schedule around home life, which he already does. I would strongly prefer someone like me, up at 7, home at 5:30, bed by 11:00, Monday through Friday, always the same... but he's not going to be that guy all the time. I

This is one of the big lifestyle compatibility issues that I brought up to him the other day; how we can live together, are our schedules going to be compatible. I have no judgment against people who do not have conventional schedules and jobs. I'm type A and I need the consistency and schedule. I would go nuts if I didn't have that. I realize we are all different and many people have other lifestyle choices than I do.

The point is, I think he is deep down a home loving guy who likes to mow the lawn on the weekends and build furniture in the garage during his time off. He's such a family man, I can't imagine him being away from home when he wasn't working, or too much. I hope not anyway. I don't really see that happening. What it would take though, is me remaining true to my own schedule and I think I would definitely need to remain very independent if we were living together. I mean...to sometimes be ok with being alone. Not always, but I don't expect us to be attached at the hip during all of our free time.

 

All of these statements read like you're deliberately being passive in hopes of forcing him to propose. It comes off as game-playing and it's not attractive. It does make me think that you're more interested in marriage than necessarily being married to him. Also, in light of the fact that you still don't know him that well yet, it's a potentially disastrous move. I would be very careful if I were you.

Ok, well... for the time being I have no choice but to be passive. I am in a lease for three more months. There's not a whole lot I can do but bide more time. As of today, I am planning to renew the lease, because I'm not sure that moving there permanently is wise right this moment. I do love him and I'm not trying to trick or force him. Lana, I'm not 100% sure without a shadow of a doubt that I want to marry this guy either. It's grown over time.. but I still have my doubts too. I'm not trying to be manipulative. It's a HUGE HUGE deal for me to leave what I have here.

If I was sure, I would move there, get my own place, and leave this behind. I'm not ready. Even if he did propose right now, I'd still be scared ****less. But at least I would know I moved for something concrete, something we both committed to fully, not just something taken lightly.

It scares the hell out of me to repeat the same mistake I did when I moved out of CA for my last boyfriend. I was ****ing miserable and that's where our relationship died. I moved there to keep him, but I had to sacrifice my own happiness to do that, and I regret it so much.

I just don't want to move there out of desperation. I want it to be because we are really, really sure.. or at least completely committed and SERIOUS about making this effort. I'm 32 now. I don't want to lose out on other opportunities by giving so much up for a man who isn't sure he wants to marry me and vice versa.

The only solution I see is that I take a leave of absence from work while paying rent on my place for about a month. I would live with him and not work, looking for work there and a place to live on my own. I will not live with him yet. But I would consider trying it for a short period of time, then coming home and making a final decision.

I'm also curious about his trips to visit you, which have all involved heavy family time and family events. (I believe Thanksgiving, Christmas, and now a wedding.). Are these trips he would've taken anyway, if he had never met you? His son has also been with him on the past two trips. It almost feels like you are skipping a bunch of steps. Although family time is important, have you gotten enough one on one time with him in person? Being around others can really mask things. I think his next trip to you should focus on the two of you, not his son, not his family. JMO.

Yeah, this is fair, but I guess without knowing the full details maybe it looks like ALL the time was with other people, family, etc. I would say on this last trip, yes, the ONLY time we were alone was in bed, at night and in the morning, sometimes in the afternoon, in the shower, etc.

The last two times he was here before, we spent maybe one or two days with his family and had a lot of alone time. Same when I went to New Orleans... he didn't want to share my attention with anyone else. We were immersed in each other, almost always. We would occasionally see a friend together or go out and socialize. Interestingly, to answer your question... No, he would not have already been coming out here for the family holidays and wedding this past year. I mean maybe but probably not. I'm pretty sure when he met me it just gave him more motivation to get out here. I found out that the last time he was in CA before coming to see me was over 12 years ago. So- I would venture to say I had a big part in him coming here!

 

 

Anyway, I'm just reflecting on all this. After our last visit, I do have a lot to think about, and I'm sure he does too.

But yes, another isolated romantic time together would be really nice. I'm sure that's in the cards.

[Grisho]

How is everything, Venus? I think it has really helped you to use this thread like a journal, so encourage you to do so, because the rest of us also learn from your journey

[sagamore]

Was just coming by to ask for an update! I see Grisho has beat me to it. Hope all is well, Venus!

[venusishername]

Thanks for checking in!

 

I guess time has flown by. I haven't had much time to write, and no big developments since our last visit about a month ago. I will be going back in the beginning of September for the long weekend since I have some set time off work. I told him I would like to see him again no longer than two months this time, I found a really great price for a flight to New Orleans, and told him I can't afford to spend another couple hundred on a flight and then the next month do the same for a bachelorette party I'm going to, so if he was willing to split the cost, I would buy the ticket. I was almost willing to pass it up, since I am going on a little vacation in the end of October for one of my best girlfriends. But he got to the bank real fast and said the money is ready for me in the bank to pay for it. I was happy he did that so quickly. I would have just as soon maybe postponed it. But he seems more drawn to me lately for some reason, he has recently been acting more gaga and head over heels than he has in awhile.

 

I thought about maybe meeting him somewhere else, not New Orleans again, although I do love it there, the thing is he's kind of stuck there with his work for the time being, which I understand. Since he works for the union, and when not working for a union contract, he is doing his own independent contracting, his schedule is all over the place. Particularly before the holidays, when there is no guaranteed time off for him. I have a little more flexibility sometimes because I have paid holidays and work a regular schedule and have set PTO and vacation days to use up. So, I have sometimes more flexibility than he does in that way.

 

After our last visit, he was the one initiating future dates that we could be together again. He already said he would like to plan to bring his daughter back here to be with the rest of the family over the holidays.

 

On that note, we are already in August. I have been dating him, solely long distance, for almost 10 months now. Which is far and beyond what I ever would have expected or was looking for, for that matter. !

 

I feel like after our last long visit together last month, there were moments that I fell deeper in love with him and realized what a good man he is and how much he adores me, and then there were moments....that he kind of got on my nerves. There were times that I looked at him and at times wished he could be less loud and obnoxious in social settings, but then he has the biggest heart and is a life of the party, and isn't always like that. He doesn't snore, which is a big plus. Seriously, these things matter!

Bottom line is, I realize that I can be critical and I know that no one is perfect, and he is a good person with a huge heart. He has some idiosyncrasies and is an eccentric person. Sometimes that can be a little annoying, but it passes and I can laugh it off. He actually teaches me that I shouldn't take life so seriously sometimes, because that's been a shortcoming of mine, and has prevented me from being happy before.

 

About a week ago, I had the idea cross my mind again that maybe I could move there for one month, sublet my place if I was able, and attempt to plead with my work to allow me an unpaid leave. I could go to New Orleans, live with him for one month temporarily, and then decide if it would be a good decision to move there. I would most likely lose my job here, and not be allowed to take a leave and come back, simply because I would come across as not invested, wishy-washy, unpredictable, etc.

 

I told him this thought and he slept on it, and then the next day was very interested in the idea, asking when I was thinking of coming, have I been looking for work there, etc. I told him it was simply a thought, I have not made any plans to do so. I do have to make a decision to either give notice where I live in one month from today. I already know that I don't feel comfortable doing that, so I need to plan to renew my lease in October, and either keep the roommate I have now, or if she decides to leave, go through the whole stressful process of finding another. I can always break my lease, as long as he has a tenant(s), that's all that matters.

 

So I've been thinking... rather than jump ship and start packing up everything I own into boxes beginning next month and lose my great place that is now being rent-controlled in a very expensive location in southern CA on the beach, in an already pricey place that I am forced to share with another person to afford it comfortably.... I'm going to renew my lease. Like I said I can always break it. Then, I will have my place as a base, but if I do decide to leave my job to go there temporarily and give it a trial run... I wouldn't be losing EVERYTHING if and when I came back. I do love where I live. My job is good but I could find something better or just as good, I'm sure. I'm not as attached to the job as much as I am where I live.

 

I guess I don't feel comfortable leaving this behind that I worked hard for, my good job and a place that I love... for someone who is offering me...

no real commitment. He's trying to sweeten the deal by offering me a significantly lower price to pay to live. He said he has everything covered as far as the home expenses but if I would like to pay the electricity bill and he would like me to cook (how often is up for negotiation!!) He has even promised me my own closet. How then I could save a lot of money (which is true, if I could find an equal paying job as I have here), then I could buy a new car, or start saving for a down payment (which is my goal).

Although we have talked about marriage, he's not moving forward with it. I don't see him saving money and socking it aside to buy me a ring. He is well aware that I am a marriage minded person and that I would like to have a child and be married sometime in the near future. I do know that he is also a family man and does value marriage, and does want someone to share his life with, and is open to having more kids, he doesn't seem really as ready as I am for all that. Just an observation.

 

He recently made a comment about having kids, and I said I'm not talking about having a child tomorrow, but it is something that I would like in the next year or so. But I want to be married first, that is more important. He said something that made me wonder if he was really as ready as I was... he made a remark about not being as financially secure as he would like to be to have another child, his own two kids cost him a lot already and it is a big expense to have a child. He is right, it is, I have no idea, and he doesn't really either because he didn't raise them day in and day out when they were growing up because he didn't marry their mother. But his making an excuse about that bothered me. It made me think that he's not REALLY interested or ready for that, as much as I am. Of course I wish I had more money and was more "financially secure", whatever that means. Anyway, I told him I am more interested in having a "family" rather than just having a baby. I have told him I don't want to be a single mom. It worries me that he had two kids out of wedlock, and was not always present in their lives when they were growing up. He was really young himself, and didn't seem to get his act together until he was in his 30s, and now I think he feels guilty or something for not being there, or not giving them more, so he feels obligated to watch them like a hawk now, and "be a real dad". In any case, I told him that when people are in love, the rest should follow naturally. Meaning... there's no reason to think about planning to have a child, that's something that would happen just as a result of being in a romantic relationship, etc. Anyway, his comment still struck me as a red flag. Just the fact that he made an excuse. And speaking of excuses, I mentioned from the beginning that he has always talked about moving to CA. He still does talk about it. He can take a licensing exam to be able to work in the state. He would have to rent out his house, hire people to maintain it, find a place out here, but first save up quite a bit of money in order to be able to do that, and then who would mow his grass? I swear, those were his words last night. Who would look out for his daughter to take care of herself? (He doesn't seem to trust that she could handle that for some reason, although from what I've experienced, she's doing just fine). He makes these excuses. He doesn't take an exam to work here. He doesn't save money, he spends it. Or maybe he saves it but I don't see that actually happening. I just see him spending it.

 

I asked him about maybe HE could move HERE for a short time and see what kind of work is HERE for him, rather than the other way around. He didn't seem too keen on that idea. The thing is, I rent and I have a roommate. He pays rent as well but is tied to the place more than I am because it is his father's property and his daughter lives there too. R pays the rent and takes care of both properties on the lot, the lot itself, is in charge of all the bills and maintenance, utilities, etc. He draws up leases and finds tenants to live on the other property there. So he does have more 'home' responsibility than I do. That's what he was referring to about 'who's gonna mow the grass?'

However, there are more and better paying jobs in CA. I probably wouldn't make more than what I'm making now, I may even make less, if I moved there. The cost of living is significantly lower there... but on the flip side there is also a lot more poverty. And crime. The crime I am used to, but the standard of living, is not something I'm used to.

 

I grew up fairly privileged, not very wealthy but my parents gave me a really comfortable life of private school, vacations to Europe, partial tuition, free cars, etc. I've always been very independent though, and have made it on my own and supported myself since I was 18.

 

His life in New Orleans would not provide me with anything like that. If I married him and/or had his child, our child wouldn't have what I did. Not to say that is necessary, but he's never going to be wealthy, he has no formal education and appears to not have a steady job. I'm just being straight here. Although he works hard, and is the opposite of lazy, I have to be honest, the unpredictable work and work SCHEDULE for that matter, is something I've really been grappling with. When the work's there, it's good and he makes decent money. But then you take into account the fact that he could have a couple weeks off, then no money or little, and meanwhile I don't see that he saves any or much, so he's breaking the bank until he gets set up for another couple weeks, etc. Maybe I am being critical. I don't make a lot of money guys, I'm just responsible with it and I thrive on predictability like that.

 

I suppose I should give him more credit and the benefit of the doubt. Not everyone is like me in that they work a 8:30-5 office job. Many people hate that kind of lifestyle.That really doesn't matter to me that he doesn't have that. What does matter to me is stability. And he does not have stability in some facets of his life. He does in other facets, like he is trustworthy and genuine, and I know I can count on him to have my back. He may not have the same paycheck every week, but his character is always consistent.

I guess I start thinking about things like paychecks because I suspect that if we do get married, or even if we don't yet get married, I could become pregnant. And then I'd have to depend on him for half of the support of the child, let alone all the home expenses. I'm going to stop on this rant now.

 

On a final note, I thought about yielding, taking the leap, testing the waters, because he really is offering me into his home and with open arms.

I want to give it a chance, and I realize that it has come down to neither one of us sure that we want to leave where we live. I never wanted to leave California again. Did it once, and I missed it every day. And I moved to what many people think of as paradise. California is my home.

 

But- I am alone here. I don't have my love here. I don't get to go out on dates with my boyfriend or share my day in and day out life with him. THAT is what I am missing. Sure, California is great, I love it here, I live in a killer location and I work in the city, I have a good job and most people my age would look at me and think, "wow, she has it all going on". Even my dad told me he thought I have the most independent and vivacious life... and I know that I do. But- I could take that anywhere I guess, because it's ME who made it this way, no one else.

I know that he loves me and he just wants to find a way for us to be together.

I'm struggling so much with this decision.

 

I don't know which direction to take, so I'm not going to take any for the time being. I have to choose SOMETHING in one month, around the time I leave to see him. He doesn't seem to really want to move here, otherwise he would, probably just the same as me not really wanting to move there, otherwise I'd be sending out my resume in New Orleans, which I haven't. Neither one of us are actually taking concrete steps to move to each others' cities. We are both just open to the idea, and casually have looked around.

I also think- I don't think it's fair that I would be the one to give up my job, give up my place, move across the country, and have to accustom myself to HIS house, not a place that we have together, etc I would have to accommodate MY life to his, not meet in the middle. I would be changing my life to fit into his. He would have to share his bed, bathroom, and closet space. Plus he gets all the sex he wants, without making any real commitment to me. My feelings remain the same about this part... I am NOT moving in with him before we both know and are sure that we are planning or already married.

 

I would only consider moving there if I got my own place. I still think he should be the one making more 'moves' before I do. Maybe I'm just being proud, but I hate to be the one giving up so much when he is offering so little.

 

I'm done playing house. I told him that the other day in response to his relentless invitations for me to move in. I don't want a roommate that I sleep with. I've done this twice before, cohabitating. I realize most couples around my age group are now living together and not married. I just can't do it again. I'm not sure if I am being proud, stubborn, or being a commitment phobe, (I see it now, Idoltree, you are the one who pointed that out)...

but I think that he needs to prove himself more before I jump ship to go all in on this.

 

I also do not feel moving there for one month to test the waters is being true to myself either. I either do this or don't. I'm not ready, otherwise I would have already done it, or be in the process of it.

I have some nagging doubts, but then again, I have an opportunity in front of me that I don't want to pass up. Like I said, I have a lot of good things here, but I have nothing in the end because I am alone. What good is it hanging on to what I think is defining me, where I live, where I work, etc... if all my friends are moving on, married, having one, two kids, having dates with their husbands, making dinner for their family. And here I am, sitting alone in my kitchen, in an empty house where my roommate just happens to be gone. Let alone, living with a roommate at my age. Unfortunately that's the cost of living where I live as a single person. Anyway, it does me no good to hang on to these things that are causing me to be alone. He is offering me more than what I have now. I tend to think that maybe it will be harder, or that I will have to give something up to do that.

 

He called while I was writing this. I couldn't bring myself to want to talk to him tonight so I will just text back. It is late. I have been thinking about this heavy lately. I don't do this often in my life, but the other day I "asked for a sign" I only do that when I am having a hard time making a decision. So- I have started the process.

[Grisho]

Thanks for the update, Venus. What does this mean please?

 

"I don't do this often in my life, but the other day I "asked for a sign" I only do that when I am having a hard time making a decision. So- I have started the process"

[lana-banana]

Venus! It's always so good to hear from you. I have to admit you're pretty much the only reason I bother reading the "Dating" subforum. (I'm on business travel so I have nothing to do except work, exercise, and read!)

 

You have a lot of food for thought here. I'm nowhere near as insightful as heavy-hitters like introverted1, idoltree, and sagamore, so I can't say my comments will have any coherent theme. I will say it's good that you've been thinking hard about this and evaluating your choices. You've been impulsive in the past, so it's rewarding to see you so deliberate and thoughtful about this.

 

After our last visit, he was the one initiating future dates that we could be together again. He already said he would like to plan to bring his daughter back here to be with the rest of the family over the holidays.

 

Completely valid on his part. Will you be seeing him then? You guys really do need some time alone.

 

On that note, we are already in August. I have been dating him, solely long distance, for almost 10 months now. Which is far and beyond what I ever would have expected or was looking for, for that matter.

 

Aw, c'mon, Venus, I think we all know you were looking for something much more than that...even if you didn't expect to find it on the dance floor!

 

I feel like after our last long visit together last month, there were moments that I fell deeper in love with him and realized what a good man he is and how much he adores me, and then there were moments....that he kind of got on my nerves. There were times that I looked at him and at times wished he could be less loud and obnoxious in social settings, but then he has the biggest heart and is a life of the party, and isn't always like that. He doesn't snore, which is a big plus. Seriously, these things matter!

 

Oh my God. About once a week my boyfriend snores so loudly it could rattle windows. (Hyperbole...but barely.) Most times he stops if I gently nudge him in the ribs. But you're right! Relationships are full of little things you don't realize are important until you actually experience them and realize you could never go back.

 

About a week ago, I had the idea cross my mind again that maybe I could move there for one month, sublet my place if I was able, and attempt to plead with my work to allow me an unpaid leave. I could go to New Orleans, live with him for one month temporarily, and then decide if it would be a good decision to move there. I would most likely lose my job here, and not be allowed to take a leave and come back, simply because I would come across as not invested, wishy-washy, unpredictable, etc.

 

I told him this thought and he slept on it, and then the next day was very interested in the idea, asking when I was thinking of coming, have I been looking for work there, etc. I told him it was simply a thought, I have not made any plans to do so. I do have to make a decision to either give notice where I live in one month from today. I already know that I don't feel comfortable doing that, so I need to plan to renew my lease in October, and either keep the roommate I have now, or if she decides to leave, go through the whole stressful process of finding another. I can always break my lease, as long as he has a tenant(s), that's all that matters.

 

I don't think this is a good idea for a number of reasons; that said, I'm not sure what other options you have. Obviously it's good for you to spend time down there. But I think living together straight off the bat is sorta giving in to his demands, and a month is still short enough to be like a vacation. You may spend that entire time searching for a job. Not to mention breaking one's lease is expensive!

 

After this month trial run is up the odds of you having your own place down there are slim to none. Let's be honest: when you move in with him, you're not going to move out, no matter what you tell yourself. It's just going to be too much of an inconvenience. Besides, once you reach that point in the relationship, there's no real way to move out without it causing a rift. So when you move in with him, that's it, period. Are you okay with that? Even if you aren't, what else can you do?

 

He recently made a comment about having kids, and I said I'm not talking about having a child tomorrow, but it is something that I would like in the next year or so. But I want to be married first, that is more important. He said something that made me wonder if he was really as ready as I was... he made a remark about not being as financially secure as he would like to be to have another child, his own two kids cost him a lot already and it is a big expense to have a child. He is right, it is, I have no idea, and he doesn't really either because he didn't raise them day in and day out when they were growing up because he didn't marry their mother. But his making an excuse about that bothered me. It made me think that he's not REALLY interested or ready for that, as much as I am. Of course I wish I had more money and was more "financially secure", whatever that means. Anyway, I told him I am more interested in having a "family" rather than just having a baby. I have told him I don't want to be a single mom. It worries me that he had two kids out of wedlock, and was not always present in their lives when they were growing up. He was really young himself, and didn't seem to get his act together until he was in his 30s, and now I think he feels guilty or something for not being there, or not giving them more, so he feels obligated to watch them like a hawk now, and "be a real dad". In any case, I told him that when people are in love, the rest should follow naturally. Meaning... there's no reason to think about planning to have a child, that's something that would happen just as a result of being in a romantic relationship, etc.

 

Allow me a tangent: you are dead wrong. A child is one of the most life-altering decisions a couple can make. It necessitates a total change in short and long-term goals, perspectives, dreams, expectations, everything. It's not just a shift in the way you live your life, it's basically an earthquake. Praise God we live in a country where reliable long-term birth control is readily available! I know all of two couples who conceived without some amount of planning beforehand. I actually know more happily married couples who conceived on accident and chose not to continue because they weren't ready for a kid (the husband was deploying, money was too tight, they weren't up for it, etc) and then had kids later. I'm on your man's side inasmuch as financial security and stability are definite musts before bringing a child into the world.

 

Anyway, his comment still struck me as a red flag. Just the fact that he made an excuse. And speaking of excuses, I mentioned from the beginning that he has always talked about moving to CA. He still does talk about it. He can take a licensing exam to be able to work in the state. He would have to rent out his house, hire people to maintain it, find a place out here, but first save up quite a bit of money in order to be able to do that, and then who would mow his grass? I swear, those were his words last night. Who would look out for his daughter to take care of herself? (He doesn't seem to trust that she could handle that for some reason, although from what I've experienced, she's doing just fine). He makes these excuses.

 

Just as much as I was on his side above I'm on your side here. These do sound like excuses. You need to ask yourself why he's making these excuses. I don't think he's trying to bait and switch you, but maybe he's trying to keep you on the hook for a bit while he gets what he wants? Do you notice him making excuses in other avenues of his life? To what end?

 

By the way, the answer to "who's gonna mow the grass?" is "a college student hired off of Craigslist for twenty bucks and beer money". It's how I got my apartment painted. It'll work for you too.

 

I grew up fairly privileged, not very wealthy but my parents gave me a really comfortable life of private school, vacations to Europe, partial tuition, free cars, etc. I've always been very independent though, and have made it on my own and supported myself since I was 18.

 

His life in New Orleans would not provide me with anything like that. If I married him and/or had his child, our child wouldn't have what I did. Not to say that is necessary, but he's never going to be wealthy, he has no formal education and appears to not have a steady job. I'm just being straight here. Although he works hard, and is the opposite of lazy, I have to be honest, the unpredictable work and work SCHEDULE for that matter, is something I've really been grappling with. When the work's there, it's good and he makes decent money. But then you take into account the fact that he could have a couple weeks off, then no money or little, and meanwhile I don't see that he saves any or much, so he's breaking the bank until he gets set up for another couple weeks, etc. Maybe I am being critical. I don't make a lot of money guys, I'm just responsible with it and I thrive on predictability like that.

 

"Thrive on predictability" is a nice way to put it. I am strongly afflicted with the same tendency---my coworker once called me "Patty Plan-Ahead", and now every single person I know calls me that as well---and there are cases when it's a colossal pain in the rear. It can work against you and make you neurotic, insecure, and on edge. My boyfriend has started trying to break me of it by planning date nights and lying about which restaurant we're going to. So I can't check the menu, figure out cab time, etc...we call it "practice spontaneity".

 

That being said, for all the annoyance of it, there are times when being Patty Plan-Ahead is great, and planning your long-term future is one of those times. Routine is wonderful. It's especially wonderful when children are involved. You need the ability to rely on each other, to know that things are okay and that you don't need to fly by the seat of your pants all the time. I love all the routines we've developed: fixing dinner, swapping cleaning chores, the farmers' market and our favorite coffeeshop on Sundays, etc. Any good relationship, romantic or otherwise, requires some amount of routine to keep going. You shouldn't feel bad because you need it. It could actually be a really good thing. You are bringing certainty and stability where your guy can't. Maybe true happiness for you lies somewhere in the middle.

 

I guess I start thinking about things like paychecks because I suspect that if we do get married, or even if we don't yet get married, I could become pregnant. And then I'd have to depend on him for half of the support of the child, let alone all the home expenses. I'm going to stop on this rant now.

 

I know you're not a fan of the IUD (which is the best invention I've ever come across, but it's a personal choice) so maybe look into the patch or the underarm implant? You have long-term, reversible options! Pregnancy is not something you have to just shrug and accept as a likely consequence to lots of sex. With a good long-term option your chances will fall well south of one percent until you're ready.

 

My feelings remain the same about this part... I am NOT moving in with him before we both know and are sure that we are planning or already married.

 

But how do you know this unless you have a ring on it? And I hate to say this for the ten thousandth time, but do you really want a ring on it before you know this is someone you can stand on a daily basis?

 

I would only consider moving there if I got my own place. I still think he should be the one making more 'moves' before I do. Maybe I'm just being proud, but I hate to be the one giving up so much when he is offering so little.

 

Okay, I'm officially confused. You'll only move if you get your own place---which I think is the best option, by the way---but you want him to be making more "moves"? What other "moves" can he possibly make at this point, especially when he's told you he isn't ready to be engaged?

 

...

but I think that he needs to prove himself more before I jump ship to go all in on this.

 

How would he do this?

 

I have been thinking about this heavy lately. I don't do this often in my life, but the other day I "asked for a sign" I only do that when I am having a hard time making a decision. So- I have started the process.

 

As another poster asked, what process is this? I know what it's like to be an atheist but occasionally wish the universe could just show you that you aren't doing something stupid. Sure, it feels good and makes enough sense, but you need to KNOW, dammit! So I empathize. But what process did you mean?

 

I applaud you to sticking to your guns and for being wise enough to recognize this decision involves many complex factors beyond the ones you can immediately see and understand. I hope you find your answer, but it probably won't come from the universe. It's already there somewhere deep inside you.

[Weezy1973]

Just a note. Long term relationships thrive on predictability, stability and reliability. As exciting as spontaneity and free spirited impulsiveness may be at the beginning, long term, predictability is key. It is also what inspires trust, which is perhaps the most important part of any relationship.

 

And when one is thinking of having kids, one should be looking for someone predictable and stable. Even more so.

 

Yay for us boring peeps!!